General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsF*ck controlling guns, control the ammunition
Seriously. Let them have their guns but no where in the Constitution does it say owning ammunition is a right. So tax the shit out of it. It worked for smokers.
If you're a sport shooter, you can apply for an exemption, that is a license that carries an annual fee that you must reapply for annually and show proof that you still have that need.
Ban the sale of ammo online.
Ban the sale of ammo at gun shows.
Ban the sale of bulk ammo to individuals.
Create legislation that puts identifying numbers on ammo. If that ammo used in a crime isn't registered to the licensed purchaser and the actor of the crime, then that licensed purchaser shares the responsibility of that crime.
You want to purchase ammo, give them a sample of your DNA, that way illegal use of the ammo makes it easier to catch the offender.
If you want to create ammo at home, ball and musket baby, just like in the good old days.
F*ck controlling guns, control the ammunition because without ammo, guns are useless.
/RANT
TipTok
(2,474 posts)It's like taxing printer ink to shut down a newspaper ...
hack89
(39,171 posts)Tale a civics class..
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)Don't let 'em come and take mah gunz. Anything but mah gunz..........that black guy and his librul buddies is gonna take mah gunz and mah rights away, I just knows it.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)Tax it into oblivion.
Squinch
(50,993 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)Even if I supported such a law would not make it legal.
Squinch
(50,993 posts)over the place. As I have pointed out to you frequently, the fact that it currently violates a law does not preclude the idea of changing a law.
We know these laws exist.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Squinch
(50,993 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Use went waydown.
No spcific Constitutional right to the bullets anyway...
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Bans on types of ammunition are okay, such as hollow points.
Bans on all ammunition are a violation of the second amendment.
This was decided law in DC v. Heller.
Skinner
(63,645 posts)(To be clear: I'm not saying that I necessarily accept the premise. But I am saying that if one does accept the premise, then the right to ammo necessarily follows.)
petronius
(26,603 posts)http://caselaw.findlaw.com/dc-court-of-appeals/1543809.html
</my amateur law-chopping>
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)Making ammo is not very hard.
Heck, I made gunpowder with pee and straw as a science experiment when I was a kid. I'd probably get arrested now.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Just like straw and pee...
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)You mean Dear the Christian Jihadist?
Its not about eliminating....its about reduction...
Is 355 mass killing in one year not enough for you yet?
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Oh....because every American with a muslim name and a gun is a jihadist...
Does that mean every Christian with one is too?
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)Yes, that's terrorism, too.
Same with Jews, but I am not sure what we get worked up about. Perhaps the Mets.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)No they werent....but you just proved something important about yourself.
And that is NOT the definition of terrorism....which doesnt HAVE to be organized by the way...have you headrd of stochastic terrorism yet?
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)What we know.
1. Three people attacked the softest of soft targets in a very organized and cool (by which I am calculated) fashion.
2. At least one was "very religious" according to his own father. Others probably so. All known to be Muslim.
3. They made many, many bombs
4. They planned the attack very well, with get away car switch, body armor, and masks. They got busted by accident. I heard it on the scanner yesterday.
5. The people at work were very nice to two of the attackers, having just given them a baby shower
6. There is recent travel to Saudi Arabia
7. A neighbor has since come forward saying that middle eastern men had been coming and going at odd times and appeared furtive, but didn't report anything because he didn't want to be called racist.
8. The President and various police officials are hem-hawing around and not jumping to the "it's workplace violence" theme.
Unless all three share the same mental illness, that's probably a "no"
There was no robbery, so that's a "no"
No drugs, so that's a "no"
The workplace seemed pretty nice, and I don't see dragging in 2 other people into a workplace dispute
They planned this for a long time (pipe bombs take time)
So, yes, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, swims like a duck, looks like a duck, it's not a zebra.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Not Arabic...never went to Saudi Arabia either...
Both were of Pakistani decent
Yeah you seem to be walking and talking like another kind of duck...
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)Officials: San Bernardino shooter apparently radicalized, in touch with terror subjects
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/03/us/san-bernardino-shooting/index.html
San Bernardino shooting suspect traveled to Saudi Arabia
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-syed-farook-had-traveled-to-saudi-arabia-married-appeared-to-live-american-dream-co-workers-say-20151202-story.html
Denial is not just a river in Egypt
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)On Wednesday, Mr. Farook, 28, who was born in Illinois and whose parents are from Pakistan,
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)You've been proven wrong, now go.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)That he traveled there is not yet proven....that was a statement made but no proof of that....so you go...because you jump to conclusions....little is known about her yet...
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)He went on Haj and met his fiance during the trip
"Haj" is a pilgrimage to Mecca. Which is in Saudi Arabia.
Have fun, going bowling.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)And I know what the Haj is thanks .
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Has anything been proven yet? Was he no longer a citizen?
Get back to me after....otherwise we know what you think...just being Muslim doesnt automatically assume one is a Jihadist.....was Dear a Christian Jihadist? Should we start being worried about all Christians?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)And made black powder.
But you can get on youtube and see how primers are made, I am sure.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)These discussions are always punctuated with "but reloaders make their own" comments, ignoring the fact that reloaders generally buy primers in bulk, because making those yourself can be an interesting and risky proposition.
Purchases of key chemicals to make primers are also monitored, and for several of the "easiest" routes, purchases of the chemicals are restricted.
Among the other things that can be "made at home" are meth, crack, and LSD. People with the appropriate supplies to make primers at home are more likely to blow themselves up before manufacturing a large quantity of ammunition.
BlueMTexpat
(15,372 posts)of 18th-century guns, i.e, muskets.
Confiscate any gun that is not a musket.
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)Basically says that citizens should have comparable small arms to the military.
There's actually a pending challenge to the 1986 ban on manufacture of new full autos based on it.
Just what we need, huh?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)The 2nd Amendment is an amendment...meaning change to the original...
sweetapogee
(1,168 posts)for example, are you saying that the main body of the constitution did not allow for freedom of speech? Seems like that is what your implying.
In the case of the 2nd amendment, are you saying that the main body of the constitution was amended to allow for previously unconstitutional gunz ownership?
Why then do we call the first 10 amendments to the constitution The Bill of Rights?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)What the word amendment means.
sweetapogee
(1,168 posts)you don't say
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,372 posts)Thanks for the info - which I am very sorry to hear.
Vinca
(50,302 posts)That would probably be a worse nightmare since who knows what they might load into the shells.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)In the past...
If bullets werent so cheap they woul be manufacturing the themselves now.....and few have that knowledge
We are not going to eliminate....but 355 in one year ...shouldnt we do something to reduce that...
What is YOUR plan....oh I know...MOAR GUNZ!
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)A lot of people have reloading kits.
What they generally forget is that making the primers - the little capsule that acts as an impact explosive to ignite the main charge - is a much trickier proposition than reloading cartridges and using commercially-available primers.
The primers are the Achilles Heel of the "but anyone can reload" argument.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)One word....convenience
Sorry I thought you agreed with him...
Then we need to regulate that achilles heel too.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Or tie flies for fly fishing. Some people get so wrapped up in fly-tying as a hobby, they don't even fish.
At a shooting range, one will often find people who will approach you and ask whether they can have your spent brass casings.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Thanks for proving my point!
See you think I am being fooled by your rhetoric that I think this will eliminate all gun violence....I don't but the entire rest of the world proves it sure as shit cuts down on it.
Since flu shots don't 100% eliminate the flu.....should we stop recommending you get one?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)What the ever living fuck are you on about?
"Since flu shots don't 100% eliminate the flu.....should we stop recommending you get one?"
No, and I'm not against gun control either. You must have me confused with someone else. I was responding to the point that is frequently raised by ammosexuals about reloading, but they forget about the primers.
I think you might do well to focus on what people say, instead of your bizarre notions about mind reading.
I only jumped in to point out a flaw in the reloading point often made by ammosexuals.
You need to get a grip.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)I dont care that some might reload....so fucking what....that takes time and is inconvenient....kinda like muskets were....we have to do something....it appears you are in the camp that just wants to pray or wish it away.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)it's like baking cookies. If you spend an afternoon on it, you can make dozens of cookies. It's not "kinda like muskets". Brass is expensive and a LOT of shooters load their own cartridges. With shotgun shells in particular, it is a very simple setup. It's easier than making your own pasta.
I jumped into this thread in response to someone who brought up reloading. The people who bring up reloading often overlook the fact that reloaders buy primers in bulk:
Primers are a small capsule of impact explosive material which ignites the rest of the powder in the cartridge.
Most people do not make their own primers, because it is much riskier than reloading and using commercial primers, and involves either doing some chemistry or purchasing monitored chemicals in order to do it in any decent quantity. Yes, there are people who do it, but it is a much, much smaller proportion of people who reload in general. Reloading is NOT an unusual or rare thing among people who regularly play with guns.
The "regulate ammunition" thing, which has been raised a zillion times on DU, regularly meets with the "but people can reload" objection. However, by also regulating primers, a lot of the reloading goes away. It also makes shooting much more expensive (see note above on brass).
You seem to be unfamiliar with the argument, counterargument and rebuttal here, and much more interested in finding people to make some kind of personal attack against. I wouldn't give two shits if the 2nd Amendment were interpreted to encompass all arms available in 1791 as I've posted elsewhere here, and a general ban on semi-auto's. People had a fine time with bolt action rifles for a very long time historically, and semi-auto's have only been more recently widely available and popular (a few decades in perspective).
"we have to do something"
Well if "something" is acting like a dick to people seeking to respond to a salient point raised by someone else in the thread, then you are certainly doing something.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Every gun owner is not going to do that...
Its not convenient....
Sorry not convinced.
When the cost to smoke went up....smoking went down....sure some rolled thier own.....but not very many did.....and they are addicted!
Vinca
(50,302 posts)If so, you'd better read some of my rants. I'm just telling you what would happen. Reloading is a hobby among some gun nuts and they'd just set up shop and crank out all the ammo they need. My preference is no guns and no ammo, but that is unrealistic.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)We reduced smoking by making them more expensive...
Sure some rolled thier own its cheaper and easy....but damn few smokers took that up...
Amd THEY were actual addicts!
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)That much is clear.
valerief
(53,235 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)Just re-size it so the new bullets ONLY go with SAFE guns. Your old gun is now obsolete like many a video cube from the past. Buy a new SAFE gun for $2,000 and register your ammo, and insurance.
They can play with abortion rights and pick and choose, it's time to pick apart the 2nd.
EX500rider
(10,849 posts)Hekate
(90,779 posts)ileus
(15,396 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)It's considered an arm.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)Much of this is already in place, and it must address both the types of firearms, the qualifications of persons and the permitted uses of firearms.
One of the basic conflicts around guns is geographic/demographic variation in desire for regulation States must be allowed to regulate commerce and permitted uses appropriate for to their circumstance. That might include allowing authority for permitted gun uses to pass to subordinate jusidictions, such as counties and incorporated towns.
More than anything there's a need to create in society a mindset that shuns the resolution of conflict through gun intimidation and violence and those that endorse and glorify that. That's not something that government can much contribute to, but prejudice and discrimination in association is a powerful social force that regularly marginalizes groups seen as deviant/ undesirable.
If we can convince parents to have children play safer sports than tackle football across the past 4 decades we can convince more and more of society to shun the perceived need to resolve conflict and dangers with means other than gun violence. And yes, there will probably be regional differences in that.
marmar
(77,088 posts)blueman mmxvi
(28 posts)Snobblevitch
(1,958 posts)out of amminition is not constitutional:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minneapolis_Star_Tribune_Co._v._Commissioner
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)the Constitution is open to interpretation as well as amendments....
Snobblevitch
(1,958 posts)alarimer
(16,245 posts)Where it is too expensive for anyone to buy.
Plus insurance and registration requirements.