Pssssssssssssst - that NYT bio of the Planned Parenthood attacker and murderer

[malaise]

of three persons with young families details the fact that he is a Christian terrorist.

We knew that on Friday afternoon - some things are clear as day, despite the spin.
Ex wife said he was evangelistic and said since he believed he would be saved he could do anything he wanted, but that none of his actions were 'Christian'. That suggests he was a first rate RW Fundie.
So are they ready to declare a motive - we know that already as well.

[annabanana]

1. I know.. a shocker, right?

[malaise]

2. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

for both of us and several others

[hifiguy]

3. Gomer's got this one

[malaise]

4. ROFL

[Oilwellian]

8. LOL n/t

[spanone]

5. here ya go wid da link...

CHARLESTON, S.C. — The man she had married professed to be deeply religious. But after more than seven years with Robert L. Dear Jr., Barbara Micheau had come to see life with him as a kind of hell on earth.

By January 1993, she had had enough. In a sworn affidavit as part of her divorce case, Ms. Micheau described Mr. Dear as a serial philanderer and a problem gambler, a man who kicked her, beat her head against the floor and fathered two children with other women while they were together. He found excuses for his transgressions, she said, in his idiosyncratic views on Christian eschatology and the nature of salvation.

“He claims to be a Christian and is extremely evangelistic, but does not follow the Bible in his actions,” Ms. Micheau said in the court document. “He says that as long as he believes he will be saved, he can do whatever he pleases. He is obsessed with the world coming to an end.”

On Friday, according to officials, Mr. Dear entered a Planned Parenthood in Colorado Springs, killing three people and wounding nine others with a semiautomatic rifle. The attack, which ended with his surrender to the police after a harrowing nationally televised standoff in the snow-dusted Western city, was a brutally violent and very public chapter in a life story whose details are not fully known.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/02/us/robert-dear-planned-parenthood-shooting.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=photo-spot-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

[malaise]

6. Thanks bro - his world is sure coming to an end

Ah well - fugg him

[spanone]

7. he's the essence of right-wing nuttery. he'll end up a hero to them.

HE'S A MURDERER - 1ST DEGREE.

fugg him twice




p.s. wonder if they've 'discovered' a motive yet?

[erronis]

63. I'd add the assholes that wrote the rapture series to the list that should be put away.

They suckered so many half-wits into thinking that the halfs would be sucked into heaven and the full-wits were going to be left on earth for eternal anguish.

I've been to a few holy-roller/fundie/baptist/evangelical services and am amazed at the total lack comprehension these people have of the real world. Their "pastors" are so adept at shaking their brains and shaking out the coins into the collection plates. Yea, God!

[OriginalGeek]

70. He already is a hero to them

they're praising him for saving all those babies lives. They don't understand why anybody is mad at him.

[mountain grammy]

34. And he could buy all the guns he wanted.

Because that's his God given right as an American citizen, no matter how crazy or violent he may be.

[malaise]

36. And no matter what he does

He will be saved - they really believe this

[Hepburn]

9. Wow...perfect description of a RW / RR Christian woman hater. n/t

[alfredo]

10. How many Christians act in a Christ like manner?

[MH1]

11. I know many who make at least a somewhat reasonable effort.

Just like ISIS does not reflect the behavior of all Muslims, "Army of God" whackos don't represent all Christians.

[JDPriestly]

33. Good point!

[alfredo]

52. Right now the right wing zealot is trying to hijack Christianity.

Make the moderates uncomfortable enough with being painted with a broad brush, and maybe they will take a more active role in fighting back against the zealot.

[alfredo]

42. we deny our own can be as cruel.

My kid would never do something like that, maybe the kids down by the river, but never my kid. As a nation we need to realize that the greatest threat is from us.

[MH1]

47. I'm not denying that at all, just rejecting the broad brush. nt

[alfredo]

51. The Muslim population has been painted with a broad brush too.

Just as they have recognized that they have bad players, we have to do the same. Just as we demand their moderates speak up, so should the moderates in the Christian religions. I know in both cases the moderates have spoken up, but neither religion wants to recognize the moderates in the other.

[bvar22]

61. Nobody has tried to brand ALL Christians as "Terrorists",

but THIS guy was a Fundamentalist Christian Terrorist

[erronis]

64. Dunno. Lose enough connections in the brain and you can be a whacko for all religions.

I think that explains what happens to a lot of fairly sentient humans as they age and their brains just can't cope.

They become afraid of the new, conservative, fundamentalist, hunkered-down person with weapons.

Altho I'm in that age bracket, I do think that the older population should probably shamble off somewhere quietly and let the new ones learn from our mistakes.

[bvar22]

65. You scaired me.

Going out back now to dig my bunker and load up on ammo and MREs.

BTW: My brain hasn't been coping well for a while, but it is still kicking on enough cylinders to know that Bernie is the ONLY Democrat in the Democratic Primary. (besides O'Malley)

[LanternWaste]

48. How many humans act in a humane manner?

How many humans act in a humane manner?

[alfredo]

53. My point.

[Orrex]

50. Born-agains come equipped with a rationalization for that

1. they say that their religion isn't a religion but is actually a personal relationship with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, which is nice, by the way, because it means their "relationship" isn't entitled to constitutional protections based on religion.

2. no one can be Christ-like because he was perfect and whatnot; good or Christ-like acts don't get you a ticket to heaven

3. a ticket to heaven is given to those who accept Jesus Christ as their savior and as the only path to salvation


In short, there's fundamentally no incentive to act Christ-like, except as a sort of incidentally positive habit that they develop because they love Jesus and because people like to do things that please the people they love.

Nice little set-up, as intricate as it is self-serving.


I've heard this chain of thinking from dozens of born-agains from all over the country and over a span of decades, so it's unlikely that I'm cherry-picking a few crazies.

[alfredo]

54. Jesus was born a Jew, lived a Jew, and died a Jew.

He was not a Christian.

[Orrex]

55. Hey, you're preaching to the choir

I know that, and you know that, but most of the people I've met who claim a personal relationship with him seem not to know that.

[alfredo]

57. There is always a disconnect between the teacher and the student.

[Turn CO Blue]

12. Holy crap. Mass murderer, adulterer, problem gambler, violent spouse abuser

obsessed with the end of days, justifying his own sins... but really into evangelizing and handing out tracts.

Just ducky.

I am disgusted with these facist authoritarians who latch on to some religion and warp it into a weapon for hurting others.

Wonder if he was going for all 7 of the deadly sins? (okay, not funny, sorry).

[spanone]

14. but they can't find a motive.

[alfredo]

43. Hell, as a younger man, I'd commit all 7 before breakfast.

Now even gluttony, the easiest of the sins lacks the thrill of days gone by. I now need a doggie bag for a kid's portion.

sigh

[panader0]

24. Was this before or after he became a transsexual liberal?

[Beartracks]

71. I know, right? Cruz shur pulls shiz out of his azz. nt

[Dont call me Shirley]

72. That's the problem, he is saved so he can do whatever he wants. Dangerous religion!

[SCantiGOP]

13. Lester Holt, NBC Nightly News

Reporring on the story last night, he said 3 times that "no motive was known." He looked very uncomfortable while saying it - he knew it was a lie but his job is to read the news. You could almost see him thinking "Jesus, I might as well be on FOX."

I didn't even bother screaming at the TV the third time he had to say it.

[malaise]

17. You know the producers on most of these progame

Control the agenda on behalf of their corporations

[hifiguy]

29. As sure as eggs is eggs.

It's as uncensored as Pravda and Vremya used to be bsck in the USSR. The corporate propaganda must be catapulted 24/7. NO exceptions.

[leveymg]

40. Who are they afraid of offending, hyper-religious RW viewers or sponsors?

Which is more dangerous?

[malaise]

44. Both

but I think sponsors (including the ReTHUGs) are more dangerous.
I am convinced that they want that Super Pac money from ads so badly that they are afraid of stating facts that would mash down obvious ReTHUG lies.
Additionally it is important that we remember that some sponsors are part of the hyper-religious RWs.

[valerief]

15. Bingo, malaise. We knew it while it was going on. It was all right there

in front of us. White man, shooting at and from PP, and then when he said, "No more baby parts," that was the cherry on top. We've seen this asshole type far too many times already.

[malaise]

16. Yes we did

This was way to obvious and we knew it.
Chris Hayes has a section on abortion and the RWs on now

[valerief]

18. I'm watching it! Glad he's covering it. nt

[Yallow]

31. Just Turned It On (Record Ever Day)

Kristchun = Do what I want cuz Jebus will save me.

All iz good no matter who I hurt cuz Iza Krischun.

Whack Jobs.

[valerief]

35. Killers. nt

[OnyxCollie]

19. We mustn't rush to judgement.

Let's wait until all the facts come in.

[malaise]

21. Yeswe must let the ReTHUGs and their hacks in the media lie and spin

the facts to suit their agenda. They nearly 'shat up' their pants when the Colorado Police shut down the lie about the attack starting in the strip mall bank which was some distance away.

The way they were framing the attack suggested that they knew it was PP under attack and then local witnesses made it clear that the police told them PP was under attack.

Nice try M$Greedia, hacks and RW politicians and their sympathizers wherever they are.

Good discussion with Wendy Davis in Chris Hayes.
We must not let this attack and slaughter die down. PP must be defended as strongly as they attack it. Women have rights.

[whatthehey]

49. Gotta be careful not to have an "anti-Christian vibe" y'know

I mean it's perfectly ok that almost to a one, absent a few fans of universal salvation (yeah right), Christians think that I will, and should, be punished for eternity (trillions to the trillionth power of years and then go factorial on the result, ad infinitum) by a perfect and loving deity for disagreeing with them for a few decades, but I'm just as bad as radical religious extremists (no difference but target and number so I'm told here at this liberal bastion) if I mention that one of their brothers in faith can be a murderous bastard.

[Rex]

20. He opened his mouth and told the reason why. People can ignore it, whatever.

We all know why he did it. Those 'babies were dying' at the hands of evil people, it looks like he was going to blow up the place. I also know some have a read sadz when it was determined the bank wasn't his target. I have no doubt that Stormfront is crying that they cannot deny he is one of them.

Fuck em.

[malaise]

22. He is one of them and then some

They cannot deny this one

[Rex]

25. True there is no way to hide that shit, the M$M did their best but he was determined to blow it up

or something. Can't hide that shit. Domestic white terrorist. Everyone has to at least agree on that.

Last I checked, only one party was forming bullshit militias and telling all their voters, 'we are all gonna die when the liberals and gays take over.'

It was not our party. It has never been our party. Are party is a bunch of dirty hippies living in a commune. =}

Peace and love brother and sister. None of us want to 'kill life in order to save it' that is stupid talk.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Yes, yes they can and they will

since this one is not one of theirs.

Sorry, for being technically correct on the affiliation... in reality it matters just at an academic level

And I will now trash this thread.

As is I have a whole lot more to read on mass incarceration... yeah... all the crap I get to read...

[Rex]

26. Of course he is one of theirs they were cheering about it after the facts. There are comments.

Oh sure they can lie up front, but we all know the score. Hard to fool people with so much technology at hand.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. actually no, they were not

you are attributing the cheering to the wrong group

[Rex]

30. Which group do you think I am attributing him to then?

If his agenda was to blow up a PP center and stop the babies from dying, that is a clear response from a certain type of group. Let us see if we match up. What group do you think he belongs to?

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. The Right to Life groups

the cross over with the White Nationalist is perhaps the White Identity Churches, who have absolutely no issues with PP... no, not because they want choice, but because of the population that in their mind PP serves. It is a eugenics things. For the record, they tend to be wrong as to who PP serves, but that is a whole different discussion.

We have three major groups in the far RW

The White Nationalists

The Christian Right (which has a subgroup of pro life crazies, who were cheering for this)

And the Anti Government types, who have a tad more of a cross over with the white nationalists types.

The people at Stormfront are mostly the first, with a smattering of the third. When trying to talk about the danger within, one has to at least understand the different motivators of these three major groups. The good news... yes there is some, for the most part they cannot stand each other because their goals are hardly the same. Which means, they have yet to become unified under one banner.

So yes, people were cheering this along, and it was almost to one members of the Christian right, and mostly the pro life crew... which is a sub group of it.

And as I said, in a piece I shan't link to here. For the most part this is academic, what happened was terrorism, and matching the FBI Sep 13, 2011 definition of terrorism, which is as follows.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) defines terrorism as “the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.”Sep 13, 2011

And with that, I am back to work, We just had dinner...

[Rex]

37. Yeah that is spot on.

No doubt one of those two, I have been saying White Identity movement or the Sovereign State folks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. The shooter might have a cross over with the SC soubgroup

but he has far more in common with the second group, which has very little cross over with the White Identity movement.

The reason for the sovereign is that he fits the mold of the third anti government type with his anti government views.

McVeigh fit the Sovereign Citizen, anti government types almost to a T. This guy has elements of the Christian Right as well. So not as easy to peg...

Years ago I remember doing a lot of reading into these groups... and I am sure if they can, the FBI will have a fun time trying to debrief this guy... as long as it is not used against him. They at times are able to do that.

Assuming GP, (I doubt it), this guy will not be part of the white supremacist skin head gangs.. I am willing to bet on it. Too reclusive and not militant enough from what has been released. He also self radicalized... I am betting on it. The process likely started when the ex told him where to shove it back in the 1990s.

[Rex]

39. Yeah he doesn't have an arsenal of firearms, his wife said just some hunting rifles

and he was going to use butane tanks as bombs. Stormfront is way to militant for this guy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. They are just different

His actions did not come from a racial perspective, but likely from at least partially a religious one.

I was not wiling to jump on that until enough evidence came out. I work with data and hate to speculate. The data seems to support a right to life type, with some anti government anger issues.



And for the record, I fully understand why the reporters on scene would not speculate either as to motivations or anything like that. It dribbles, but it always dribbles in the end.

I'm sure the next order of business though, since this will be a capital case, is a competency hearing. There is a chance, that this guy also did all this becuase he is plainly nuts, or partially nuts. Or he could be nuts, and inspired by the religious voices in his head. If the defense does not go there, and demand that, well, that would be judicial misconduct on their part.

Yup. I hope he gets the absolute best legal defense possible.

And being nuts, does not discount a religious \ anger with government motivator either. Just how much we can hold him responsible. The bar for insanity is extremely high though. But this is the absolute next order of business.

Hey locally we had a guy who held the cops at bay, and now that they are doing the competency, he might be that crazy... in his case it was about the world government and the illuminati. And if they find him not able to stand trial, his next stop is Vacaville State hospital.

[malaise]

45. He executed three people

a female who could pass for Hispanic, a black man and a cop. That's so white supremacist it isn't funny.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. He executed a government official (antigovernment type and pamphlets)

And to people at a PP clinic who went for services. The Christian Right has issues with people getting services on ideological reasons. (That baby parts comment fits that mold) White supremacy groups love PP for eugenics reasons. Heck, they would prefer if all lesser people, well did go there and never had one more baby. Yeah yeah some of the stuff I get to read.

As I said...the American far Right is not, and this is a good thing, monolithic

If you want to pretend white supremacists are the same thing as the religious right and the antigovernment types, by all means, do so. I know better but have made an effort to educate myself since this county had a lot of hate groups. We now only have less...ah since Tom Metzger left for Southern Ohio...many of our white nationalist groups went away. We still have the other types though and some skin heads...oh well. Thankfully so does the FBI. And if you want to learn the difference the Southern Poverty Law Center is a good place to start. The differences are beyond academic by the way. Some of these groups would kill each other before they go after the rest of us. Yeah they hate each other that deeply.

And regardless what is the racial breakdown of the other 9? Don't bother, HIPA is at play. Given the makeup of the city I am willing to bet white folks were injured as well. It is a good thing we don't know because they are well...alive.

[kairos12]

28. I'm shocked, shocked...well, you and Claude Rains know the continuation.

[malaise]

46. LOL

[niyad]

56. ex-wife also says he targeted a PP before.

[alfredo]

58. He put glue in the locks, just as others in Operation Rescue.

[niyad]

60. but, we have NOOOOOO idea what his motives are!

[malaise]

62. Of course not- it was as random as

a cinema, a school or a mall...NOT

[alfredo]

69. Liberals did it and now blaming it on conservatives.

[alfredo]

68. Right now we don't have anything from his mouth, other than the baby parts statement.

We have people who knew him comment about him, giving clues to possible motive. The media is being much too cautious.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

66. I consider him to be no different than the Manson Family. A robot programmed to kill.

[Enthusiast]

67. Christian Terrorist!