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LiberalArkie

(15,716 posts)
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:29 PM Nov 2015

Evangelist Calls On Christians To Assassinate Abortion Providers

Last edited Mon Nov 30, 2015, 07:00 PM - Edit history (3)



Popular Facebook evangelist Joshua Feuerstein calls on Christians to “punish Planned Parenthood” and make abortion providers fear for their life.

The obnoxious but popular Christian evangelist Joshua Feuerstein published the following video to his Facebook page on July 29:




Planned Parenthood has hunted down millions and millions of little innocent babies, stuck a knife into the uterus, cut them, pulled them out, crushed their skull with forceps, ripped their body apart, sold their tissue, and threw them bleeding into a trash bin.

I say, tonight, we punish Planned Parenthood. I think it’s time that abortion doctors should have to run and hide and be afraid for their life.



There is also this post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027397203
116 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Evangelist Calls On Christians To Assassinate Abortion Providers (Original Post) LiberalArkie Nov 2015 OP
Tell it to the FBI. moondust Nov 2015 #1
Yeah this asshole needs to be investigated by as many authorities as possible. Initech Nov 2015 #97
This fucker belongs behind bars. hifiguy Nov 2015 #2
I completely agree with you. Aerows Nov 2015 #6
His video is from July, not sure what year passiveporcupine Nov 2015 #74
Cheering people harming other people Aerows Nov 2015 #79
an evangelist of death passiveporcupine Nov 2015 #82
It's so damn sad. n/t Aerows Nov 2015 #83
Along with congressional republicans who drilled Planned Parenthood and B Calm Nov 2015 #39
What prosecutable crime? I despise his actions and motives, but all speech is protected Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2015 #62
Incitement is not protected speech. n/t cloudbase Nov 2015 #70
Yes it is. There is case law. You can't point to a single law that stands outside of riots and Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2015 #71
Brandenburg. cloudbase Nov 2015 #78
This was not and is not "imminent lawless action". He was not speaking in a riot. Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2015 #81
Incitement is not protected in New Zealand. But ... Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2015 #76
Apparently, he knows absolutely nothing about abortion. I would bet a million dollars that sinkingfeeling Nov 2015 #3
Good quote on your sig line. LiberalArkie Nov 2015 #5
I'm sure he's also virulently opposed to spaying and neutering. moondust Nov 2015 #11
K & R for visibility of this N/T w0nderer Nov 2015 #4
Feuerstein's the Christian hatemonger who called on his followers to fight gay marriage with guns herding cats Nov 2015 #7
He deleted it from his Facebook. But, you know how the internet is. LiberalArkie Nov 2015 #8
Exactly. It's still out there and easy to find. herding cats Nov 2015 #14
I wonder how long it would take for me to be disappeared hifiguy Nov 2015 #9
Pretty much. herding cats Nov 2015 #16
If you can gibber out "jeeeeeebus" or "gawwwwwd" hifiguy Nov 2015 #22
I had a very similar thought.... MindPilot Nov 2015 #38
{cough} Proserpina Nov 2015 #64
Nope. My Mac thought that was the word I wanted to use. n/t MindPilot Dec 2015 #114
Take a gander at this LiberalArkie Nov 2015 #73
Also Behind the Starbucks Dust Up erpowers Nov 2015 #21
"...and say their name was Merry Christmas so their cups would say Merry Christmas." KansDem Nov 2015 #31
And also so the clerks would have to SAY "Merry Christmas" jmowreader Nov 2015 #101
I might respond with "Christmas that is Merry!" KansDem Dec 2015 #116
ROFLMAO -- he says while lying in bed. Brickbat Nov 2015 #10
pointy-headed moron. Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #12
Just another one of those chisel-heads. LiberalArkie Nov 2015 #13
THIS should be a reason to take tax exempt status away jwirr Nov 2015 #15
He is one sick mofo. smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #17
He's the one jmowreader Nov 2015 #92
Just reported him to the FBI. Katashi_itto Nov 2015 #18
What would be the charge / crime he is alleged to have committed? Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2015 #57
I believe that inciting people to violence is still a crime...not a lawyer though. Moostache Nov 2015 #69
it isnt specific enough saturnsring Nov 2015 #95
Good possibilities of cases, but not free speech cases. Still, good analysis. Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2015 #104
Small point, but... NYC Liberal Dec 2015 #112
Violation of the FACE Act. backscatter712 Nov 2015 #99
Thanks. nt Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2015 #105
Tough, it's a violation of FACE Katashi_itto Nov 2015 #110
another big mouthed asshole with a computer.... spanone Nov 2015 #19
yup-- that seems to be one of the defining pathologies of the internet age.... mike_c Nov 2015 #58
Didn't I read elsewhere that he'd deleted this video? Doesn't excuse him, of course. randome Nov 2015 #20
It has been saved http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027397203 LiberalArkie Nov 2015 #23
Ahh, thanks Ahpook Nov 2015 #52
Starbucks cup guy Mendocino Nov 2015 #24
Oh yea, For high entertainment today, might I recommend his Facebook page. LiberalArkie Nov 2015 #25
The scary part of his page is seeing almost 1,900,000 "likes". nt Mnemosyne Nov 2015 #65
I was just there. That video he made will never go away. DawgHouse Nov 2015 #84
10 bucks says he's masturbating in that second video arcane1 Nov 2015 #26
oh man, i just can't unread that restorefreedom Nov 2015 #87
Lying down in bed doing video selfies wearing satin jammies. Obvious masturbater Monk06 Dec 2015 #113
No doubt, he pretends a "serious anti-christian vibe" is present. LanternWaste Nov 2015 #27
Yep; Wonder if DU Christians will try and find a way atheists are "just as bad" whatthehey Nov 2015 #29
Nah, we know that fundies are worse and the Atheists do not bother anyone. LiberalArkie Nov 2015 #33
Thanks - wopuld be nice if more of you had said that in the accusing thread though. whatthehey Nov 2015 #35
I think all my old friends are all atheists or agnostists. I am not a fundy by any means. I won't LiberalArkie Nov 2015 #46
I'm not clever enough to pretend to know who's worse. LanternWaste Nov 2015 #40
That's an interesting comparison el_bryanto Nov 2015 #37
I made no comparison, either morphological or syntactic. LanternWaste Nov 2015 #42
Hmmmm el_bryanto Nov 2015 #96
Bring it, fauxhawk-boy. Lizzie Poppet Nov 2015 #28
I think that 2naSalit Nov 2015 #30
I guess the coffee cups weren't doing it for him. juxtaposed Nov 2015 #32
"The popular but obnoxious"? katsy Nov 2015 #34
Feuerstein? Evangelist?! KamaAina Nov 2015 #36
LOL B Calm Nov 2015 #41
I was stonkered when conversing with someone named Steinberg about marriage equality KamaAina Nov 2015 #43
Joshua, no less! KamaAina Nov 2015 #44
I'm not a fan of abortion, but this guy is nuts NYCButterfinger Nov 2015 #45
Inciting murder. Jail that bastard! redwitch Nov 2015 #47
Time to throw these terrorists, Joshua Fuhrerstein and the like, in prison for inciting violence . Dont call me Shirley Nov 2015 #48
Inciting violence is not a crime. Protecting free speech means protecting speech you don't like Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2015 #60
But shouting fire in a movie theater and bomb in an airport are okay? Dont call me Shirley Nov 2015 #63
Obviously not. But this case is not remotely similar, and there is plenty of case law Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2015 #68
Actually, yes it is. See Brandenburg v. Ohio. backscatter712 Nov 2015 #106
I was wondering when we'd return to 1996... Blue_Tires Nov 2015 #49
Wow...just wow. yuiyoshida Nov 2015 #50
Holy mother of gawd.... Hepburn Nov 2015 #51
He should be sharing a prison cell with Cruz and Fiorina. nt valerief Nov 2015 #53
And rethugs say we don't know the motive behind the planned parenthood shooting. liberalnarb Nov 2015 #54
A liberal suggesting others TARGET people would put them in jail, but it never randys1 Nov 2015 #55
Extra-judicial killings by right-wing (militia, unregulated). nt Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2015 #56
He's obviously mentally ill Jack Rabbit Nov 2015 #59
Some DU'ers consider this "protected speech", unfortunately Tarc Nov 2015 #61
And you don't? What law does it violate that passes Constitutional muster? Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2015 #67
This is NOT a 1st amendment issue. Moostache Nov 2015 #75
You have huge hurdles. Yes it automatically is a free speech issue when you prosecute speech. Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2015 #80
Not a lawyer...as said before...but I disagree that "free speech" covers implied threats of violence Moostache Nov 2015 #85
He violated the FACE Act. backscatter712 Nov 2015 #102
Very good catch and detail. Thanks ! nt Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2015 #103
No problem! backscatter712 Nov 2015 #109
Just another anti-abortion christian crazy, they'll murder you before they fasttense Nov 2015 #66
Insane. Completely insane. (He's the original "OMG-My-Starbucks-Cup-Is-RED" guy, right?) NurseJackie Nov 2015 #72
The FBI should investigate all parishioners in this church perdita9 Nov 2015 #77
He's a coward SHRED Nov 2015 #86
A threat to public safety. SoapBox Nov 2015 #88
Hate crime prosecution doesn't bring back the dead Omaha Steve Nov 2015 #89
Is this clown Jewish? sulphurdunn Nov 2015 #90
Only at Chanukah jmowreader Nov 2015 #94
He's one of these so called pro life men who abandon a woman they get pregnant maryellen99 Nov 2015 #91
His name is spelled wrong. It should be "Fürhërstein". Initech Nov 2015 #93
"Hi! Youtube exists so I can post videos of me screaming at my camcorder! struggle4progress Nov 2015 #98
Kick nt LiberalElite Nov 2015 #100
bloated blob making threats while laying in bed? he looks like he is laying in bed lunasun Nov 2015 #107
They confirm my atheism every day. nt arthritisR_US Nov 2015 #108
He has deleted all of his YouTube videos from this past year Oilwellian Dec 2015 #111
Death threats and incitement to riot are not covered by the First Amendment shenmue Dec 2015 #115

Initech

(100,080 posts)
97. Yeah this asshole needs to be investigated by as many authorities as possible.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:19 PM
Nov 2015

If this isn't terrorism I don't know what is.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
6. I completely agree with you.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:40 PM
Nov 2015

What a dangerous thing to say in light of the death of 3 people.

Hell, it's an awful thing to say at any time, but downright recklessly despicable at a time like this.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
74. His video is from July, not sure what year
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 07:06 PM
Nov 2015

But still, this is the type of incitement that really should not be legal as "freedom of speech".

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
79. Cheering people harming other people
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 07:13 PM
Nov 2015

is a despicable act. What in the hell is in the heads of such people? What are they missing in their life that they would commit such horrible acts?

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
39. Along with congressional republicans who drilled Planned Parenthood and
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 05:48 PM
Nov 2015

created the atmosphere for terrorism!

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,002 posts)
62. What prosecutable crime? I despise his actions and motives, but all speech is protected
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 06:50 PM
Nov 2015

What prosecutable crime? I despise his actions and motives, but all speech is protected otherwise there is always somebody to block your speech.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,002 posts)
71. Yes it is. There is case law. You can't point to a single law that stands outside of riots and
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 07:00 PM
Nov 2015

You can't point to a single law that stands outside of riots and other extremely volatile situations.

Nor convictions that weren't overturned.

Give it a try finding one.

cloudbase

(5,520 posts)
78. Brandenburg.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 07:12 PM
Nov 2015

"The constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action."

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,002 posts)
81. This was not and is not "imminent lawless action". He was not speaking in a riot.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 07:16 PM
Nov 2015

There was a long delay between the "incitement" (the bogus body parts video and Fiorino and the pastor) and the action (the Colorado shootings on Friday). Therefore no lawyer and no prosecutor could prove "imminent".

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,002 posts)
76. Incitement is not protected in New Zealand. But ...
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 07:08 PM
Nov 2015
Incitement was an offence under the common law of England and Wales. It was an inchoate offence.[1] It consisted of persuading, encouraging, instigating, pressuring, or threatening so as to cause another to commit a crime.

It was abolished in England and Wales on 1 October 2008[2] when Part 2 of the Serious Crime Act 2007 came into force, replacing it with three new statutory offences of encouraging or assisting crime.[3] The common law is now only relevant to offences committed before that date.[4]

Incitement remains an offence in New Zealand.[5]
-- Wikipedia

In the United States, you have to prove that "imminent danger" is or was operative.

Traditionally, however, if the speech did not fall within one of the above categorical exceptions, it was protected speech. In 1969, the Supreme Court protected a Ku Klux Klan member’s racist and hate-filled speech and created the "imminent danger" test to permit hate speech. The court ruled in Brandenburg v. Ohio that; "The constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a state to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force, or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action."[80]
-- Wikipedia

sinkingfeeling

(51,457 posts)
3. Apparently, he knows absolutely nothing about abortion. I would bet a million dollars that
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:36 PM
Nov 2015

he couldn't tell an embryo of a pig from one of his 'little innocent babies'





Which one is it?

moondust

(19,989 posts)
11. I'm sure he's also virulently opposed to spaying and neutering.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:46 PM
Nov 2015

At least I think he's probably opposed. I've never actually heard a conservative voice his virulent opposition to human intervention in animal reproduction, but I'm sure they object to it since God makes animals, too, ya know.

herding cats

(19,565 posts)
7. Feuerstein's the Christian hatemonger who called on his followers to fight gay marriage with guns
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:40 PM
Nov 2015

He's the one who said they should stand up for their 1st Amendment right to discriminate against gays by using their 2nd Amendment right to bear arms.

He's one sick puppy. I'm sure he feels no remorse over the deaths at the PP clinic. If anything he's looking for a way to exploit it and increase is social media following.

herding cats

(19,565 posts)
14. Exactly. It's still out there and easy to find.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:50 PM
Nov 2015

He can't just delete his video after millions of people viewed it and think his actions would go away with it.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
9. I wonder how long it would take for me to be disappeared
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:42 PM
Nov 2015

if I said similar things about the kleptocrats on Wall Street.

Not long, I'd wager.

But this is OK, because jebus.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
22. If you can gibber out "jeeeeeebus" or "gawwwwwd"
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:58 PM
Nov 2015

anything and everything is excusable and you will be presumed sane/OK no matter what else you say or profess.

This is one seriously fucked-up society.

 

MindPilot

(12,693 posts)
38. I had a very similar thought....
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 05:44 PM
Nov 2015

If I put up a page urging the assignation of federal prosecutors, I wonder how long it would take before the fibbies broke down my door.

For those who don't get religious privilege, this is what it looks like.

 

Proserpina

(2,352 posts)
64. {cough}
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 06:52 PM
Nov 2015


as·sig·na·tion
ˌasiɡˈnāSH(ə n/

noun: assignation; plural noun: assignations

1.
an appointment to meet someone in secret, typically one made by lovers.
"his assignation with an older woman"
synonyms: rendezvous, date, appointment, meeting; literarytryst
"their secret assignation"
2.
the allocation or attribution of someone or something as belonging to something.

erpowers

(9,350 posts)
21. Also Behind the Starbucks Dust Up
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:58 PM
Nov 2015

It was Joshua Feuerstein who started the things, earlier this year, with Starbucks. He claimed to be upset that this year Starbucks put out a simple red cup instead of a cup with snowflakes, snowmen, and reindeer. He then encouraged people to go to Starbucks and say their name was Merry Christmas so their cups would say Merry Christmas.

KansDem

(28,498 posts)
31. "...and say their name was Merry Christmas so their cups would say Merry Christmas."
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 05:23 PM
Nov 2015

And if I were working at Starbucks, I'd write "Mary Quissmiss."

jmowreader

(50,559 posts)
101. And also so the clerks would have to SAY "Merry Christmas"
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:30 PM
Nov 2015

Trust me on something, Mr. Feuerstein: after a retail worker survives the month-long Christmas season, the last thing he or she wants to happen is to be forced to say "Merry Christmas" to someone.

KansDem

(28,498 posts)
116. I might respond with "Christmas that is Merry!"
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 11:50 AM
Dec 2015

I mean, who says the adjective must precede the noun?

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
17. He is one sick mofo.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:53 PM
Nov 2015

Isn't he the same guy that started that BS with the Starbucks red cup being "anti-Christian" or some such shit? What a dork. Get a life you idiot.

And what's a Christian fundie doing with a last name like Feuerstein?

jmowreader

(50,559 posts)
92. He's the one
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 07:44 PM
Nov 2015

He's also the same mofo who called a Florida bakery that makes a lot of cakes for same-sex marriages and asked them to make him a cake with "We Do Not Support Same Sex Marriage" written on it. And of course he recorded the call without telling the distant end he was doing it, and published it online to show how people "discriminate against Christians because of their faith." Unfortunately for Josh...recording phone calls in Florida without the consent of all parties is a felony. But, you know, IOKIYAR.

He's ALSO the same mofo who asked his minions for $20,000 for a Red One camera to make YouTube videos (yes, I know: why in HELL do you need a full-fledged professional cinema camera to shoot YT video?), and when they gave him the money he spent it on something else.
http://lifeafter40.net/2015/04/07/josh-feuerstein-wheres-the-camera/

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,002 posts)
57. What would be the charge / crime he is alleged to have committed?
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 06:47 PM
Nov 2015

Anything prosecutable with a reasonable chance of conviction?

Protecting free speech is to protect free speech you don't like, just like we protect your free speech that your opponents don't like.

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
69. I believe that inciting people to violence is still a crime...not a lawyer though.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 06:58 PM
Nov 2015

I would think he could be at risk for:

1) making interstate threats to interfere with interstate commerce (no matter if you like it or not, abortion IS LEGAL)
2) making threats of violence and intimidation (Assault....Battery is only if you HIT them...)
3) a reprisal from Anonymous that posts his home address and phone numbers

Just as you can't yell "Fire" in a crowded public venue, you can't yell "kill" on a public forum....

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,002 posts)
104. Good possibilities of cases, but not free speech cases. Still, good analysis.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:37 PM
Nov 2015

This is what is needed, analysis, not the knee jerk anti-free speech reaction of so many.

Thanks.

NYC Liberal

(20,136 posts)
112. Small point, but...
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 01:58 AM
Dec 2015

it is perfectly legal to shout fire in a public venue.

#1. The case from which that example originates (Schenck) was overturned.
#2. That example was used to justify the arrest and imprisonment of protestors during WWI for handing out anti-war flyers.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
99. Violation of the FACE Act.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:12 PM
Nov 2015

One of President Bill Clinton's accomplishments

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Access_to_Clinic_Entrances_Act

The Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act (FACE or the Access Act, Pub. L. No. 103-259, 108 Stat. 694) (May 26, 1994, 18 U.S.C. § 248) is a United States law that was signed by President Bill Clinton in May 1994, which prohibits the following three things: (1) the use of physical force, threat of physical force, or physical obstruction to intentionally injure, intimidate, interfere with or attempt to injure, intimidate or interfere with any person who is obtaining reproductive health services or providing reproductive health services (this portion of the law typically refers to abortion clinics), (2) the use of physical force, threat of physical force, or physical obstruction to intentionally injure, intimidate, interfere with or attempt to injure, intimidate or interfere with any person who is exercising or trying to exercise their First Amendment right of religious freedom at a place of religious worship, (3) the intentional damage or destruction of a reproductive health care facility or a place of worship.[1][2]


Josh Feuerstein's words were pretty much a direct threat - an attempt to incite immediate violence (he said "tonight&quot against PP clinics.

He could conceivably spend a year in Federal prison for this.

mike_c

(36,281 posts)
58. yup-- that seems to be one of the defining pathologies of the internet age....
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 06:48 PM
Nov 2015

It's unfortunate that another one appears to be some peoples' willingness to take BS seriously.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
20. Didn't I read elsewhere that he'd deleted this video? Doesn't excuse him, of course.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:56 PM
Nov 2015

What a loser.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)
[/center][/font][hr]

Ahpook

(2,750 posts)
52. Ahh, thanks
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 06:36 PM
Nov 2015

He's a fucking con man that won't stand by his convictions.

The coward should leave the video up.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
27. No doubt, he pretends a "serious anti-christian vibe" is present.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 05:05 PM
Nov 2015

No doubt, he pretends a "serious anti-christian vibe" is present, and is very concerned with it.

whatthehey

(3,660 posts)
29. Yep; Wonder if DU Christians will try and find a way atheists are "just as bad"
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 05:20 PM
Nov 2015

because after all the only difference between Xian fundies and atheist fundies is the target and the quantity so I'm told.

I suppose, on a technicality, that's right though. After all while there are many preachers and doubtless legions of their followers (or they'd stop being followers!) who want to treat abortion as a capital crime, there is indeed a smaller number of atheists calling for the death penalty for Christians.

It would be nice though if the crowd who think "bear no false witness" is not just sensible but divinely commanded would admit that that smaller number is in fact zero, which makes it qualitatively different too.

LiberalArkie

(15,716 posts)
46. I think all my old friends are all atheists or agnostists. I am not a fundy by any means. I won't
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 06:11 PM
Nov 2015

even say I am a Christian, I just say I am a follower of Jesus. And they say "you're a Christian" I say nope. I don't want to be lumped in with those fools. They have no idea of what they say or do. They can make no correlation to saying "All abortionists should be killed" over and over and felling any responsibility when it happens.

I try to stay out of the fire fights myself, it is too easy to go overboard.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
40. I'm not clever enough to pretend to know who's worse.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 05:48 PM
Nov 2015

'Wonder if DU Christians will try and find a way atheists are "just as bad"'

I'm not clever enough to pretend to know who's worse person for person. Am however, clever enough to pretend to know that many people are just as bad as I am, many others are better than I am, and yet still others worse than I am.

Then again, I just illustrated my own ignorance by pretending to know what good and bad are.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
37. That's an interesting comparison
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 05:42 PM
Nov 2015

I assume that in your mind DU Christians (or at least that one who posted about anti-Christian sentiment at DU) and this jackass share certain similarities - how similar do you believe them to be?

Bryant

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
42. I made no comparison, either morphological or syntactic.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 05:57 PM
Nov 2015

I made no comparison, either morphological or syntactic.

I framed one object. Two are necessary for a comparison.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
96. Hmmmm
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:01 PM
Nov 2015

It seemed like you were comparing Joshua Feuerstein and the person who posted this post.

You have to admit that the language is pretty similar right? So I guess I just assumed you were comparing the two.

Good use of morphological and syntactic though - you must be very smart.

Bryant

2naSalit

(86,646 posts)
30. I think that
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 05:22 PM
Nov 2015

not only is he a sh*t stirrer/incitement vector, he's also trolling for some deep pocketed someone to fund his BS... if it hasn't already been the case.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
43. I was stonkered when conversing with someone named Steinberg about marriage equality
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 05:57 PM
Nov 2015

He said, "Are you happy about it? I'm not. I'm a Christian."

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,002 posts)
60. Inciting violence is not a crime. Protecting free speech means protecting speech you don't like
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 06:49 PM
Nov 2015

Protecting free speech means protecting speech you don't like because there is always somebody else who doesn't like your speech.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,002 posts)
68. Obviously not. But this case is not remotely similar, and there is plenty of case law
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 06:56 PM
Nov 2015

It has been settled law from many cases that (outside of riots and other such extreme situations), exhorting people to violence and law-breaking is not breaking the law.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
106. Actually, yes it is. See Brandenburg v. Ohio.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:43 PM
Nov 2015
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio

It has to be incitement of imminent lawless action for it to lose First Amendment protection under this SCOTUS decision.

See Feuerstein's exact words:

I say, tonight, we punish Planned Parenthood. I think it’s time that abortion doctors should have to run and hide and be afraid for their life.


There's the three-fold Brandenburg test. To be actionable, a piece of speech must come with intent, imminence, and likelihood of inciting lawless action.

It passes the intent test, because Feuerstein's made it very plain not just here, but elsewhere, what he thinks of Planned Parenthood.

It passes the imminent test, because Feuerstein called for action "tonight" (presumably the night when the video was posted.)

And it passes the likelihood test, because for Planned Parenthood, this is not their first rodeo. In fact, there are countless instances of death threats, vandalism, assaults, and so on, so Feuerstein's speech was definitely likely to incite lawless acts.

As for specific laws, like I said elsewhere in this thread, I think Feuerstein violated the FACE Act. I think there's a strong, Constitutionally defensible case to be made that Feuerstein could be put in Federal prison for a year for what he said.

Hepburn

(21,054 posts)
51. Holy mother of gawd....
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 06:35 PM
Nov 2015

....this person calls himself a Christian???? Ummmmmmm...IF there was a Jesus, he sure as hell would not want this POS using his name to justify his sick beliefs!

JMHO

randys1

(16,286 posts)
55. A liberal suggesting others TARGET people would put them in jail, but it never
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 06:43 PM
Nov 2015

works the other way around.

Didnt happen to Sarah, wont happen here I betcha

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,002 posts)
67. And you don't? What law does it violate that passes Constitutional muster?
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 06:54 PM
Nov 2015

Point to it.

In The Friends of Voltaire Evelyn Beatrice Hall wrote the phrase: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"[4] (which is often misattributed to Voltaire himself) as an illustration of Voltaire's beliefs.[5][6][7] Hall's quotation is often cited to describe the principle of freedom of speech.

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
75. This is NOT a 1st amendment issue.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 07:06 PM
Nov 2015

The RIGHT to say something does not and never has freed ANYONE from the consequences of saying it in the public arena.

Your job, your home, you reputation...ALL can be lost for "free" speech because the public can choose to ignore your business as a result or your bosses may fire you in "at-will" employment positions because your ignorant "free" speech besmirches their business too.

Freedom of Speech exists to prevent the government from abolishing political speech or free expression.
It does NOT absolve anyone from the consequences of their actions...and it does not make one free from appropriate retort or counterpoint arguments.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,002 posts)
80. You have huge hurdles. Yes it automatically is a free speech issue when you prosecute speech.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 07:13 PM
Nov 2015
Your job, your home, you reputation...ALL can be lost for "free" speech


Those are covered by the laws of libel and slander. If certain hurdles are overcome then free speech is not a defense.

Freedom of Speech exists to prevent the government from abolishing political speech or free expression.
It does NOT absolve anyone from the consequences of their actions...and it does not make one free from appropriate retort or counterpoint arguments.


Yes, and that guy would instantly claim it is political speech, religious speech and free expression.

None of the posters have paused their emotions to raise the one issue you hint at, ... civil liability. They have simply said he belongs in prison because of his speech. That will not happen thanks to the Constitution of the United States of America.

But when people (like you have) get beyond simple knee jerk reactions, then we are getting somewhere.

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
85. Not a lawyer...as said before...but I disagree that "free speech" covers implied threats of violence
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 07:22 PM
Nov 2015

His right to voice an anti-abortion statement is NOT the part that gets him afoul of the law (in my view), it is the threat or implication of bodily harm being added to the statement. That and causing "fear in them".

I am pro-choice as the day is long, but I will gladly defend the RIGHT of someone to believe otherwise and to say otherwise. But I do NOT advocate for pro-choice people to attack protesters and threaten to kill them or inflict bodily hamr on them.

Douchewaffle Joshua stepped across a pretty clearly defined line in the "what is protected speech?" debate when he stopped voicing an opinion on abortion and started suggesting that people harm those who disagree...


EDIT (ADDING):
Source: ABC News

The suspect in an online threat against the University of Chicago -- a student from a nearby college -- allegedly wanted to kill approximately 16 students or staff and "any number of white policemen that I can in the process" in retaliation for the fatal police shooting of teenager Laquan McDonald, who was shot 16 times, officials said Monday.

Jabari Dean, 21, was charged with transmitting a threat in interstate commerce, according to federal prosecutors, and could face five years in prison if convicted, officials said, though the FBI determined he did not have the means to carry it out.


That appears to be "speech" too? NO?

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
102. He violated the FACE Act.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:32 PM
Nov 2015

Feuerstein made what is essentially a direct death threat against Planned Parenthood.

His exact words were:

I say, tonight, we punish Planned Parenthood. I think it’s time that abortion doctors should have to run and hide and be afraid for their life.


By saying "tonight", he made what could have been a vague call to action into an imminent threat. And with the words "abortion doctors should have to run and hide and be afraid for their life" he was essentially calling for either direct harm or a threat of direct harm towards abortion doctors.

That is NOT protected speech under the First Amendment.

As for specific laws he violated, I say he violated the FACE Act, which was signed into law by President Bill Clinton, and specifically prohibits the use of violence or the threat of violence to disrupt the obtaining or providing of reproductive health services.

Acts intended to intimidate workers or patients at reproductive health clinics are prohibited, so I think this covers what Feuerstein said specifically.
 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
66. Just another anti-abortion christian crazy, they'll murder you before they
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 06:54 PM
Nov 2015

Find out anything. Shot first ask questions later you know. They think they have license to kill with impunity. Crazy mass murderers.

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
88. A threat to public safety.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 07:26 PM
Nov 2015

He should be picked up.

What the hell is wrong with this country, when shit like this is allowed to continue.

maryellen99

(3,789 posts)
91. He's one of these so called pro life men who abandon a woman they get pregnant
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 07:36 PM
Nov 2015

Then cry when they have to pay child support.

struggle4progress

(118,290 posts)
98. "Hi! Youtube exists so I can post videos of me screaming at my camcorder!
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:05 PM
Nov 2015

Send me some money!"

... Feuerstein’s .. incendiary views are part of his .. persona. Appearing on CNN Monday, he says America is a Christian nation ... The other guest .. Pete Dominick, a talk radio host, attacked Feuerstein as a “entrepreneurial bigot” ... For .. $10, $20, or $50 monthly, Feuerstein offers partnerships to help him spread his message ... His Web site doesn’t detail what the various tiers get you ...
Who is Josh Feuerstein, the man behind the Starbucks red cup frenzy?
Colby Itkowitz
November 10

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
107. bloated blob making threats while laying in bed? he looks like he is laying in bed
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:54 PM
Nov 2015

or is he disabled?
either way hater supreme

Oilwellian

(12,647 posts)
111. He has deleted all of his YouTube videos from this past year
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 01:43 AM
Dec 2015

But he's left a lot of Neanderthal footprints.

Pastor Encourages Christians to Fight Same-Sex Marriage Ruling With Guns


http://www.advocate.com/religion/2015/07/16/pastor-encourages-christians-fight-same-sex-marriage-ruling-guns

shenmue

(38,506 posts)
115. Death threats and incitement to riot are not covered by the First Amendment
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:20 AM
Dec 2015

As I'm sure this asshole's lawyer will explain to him really soon.

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