How to deal with religious extremism - up close and personal.

[KentuckyWoman]

We have handed off the family homestead to a dear nephew and moved to Lexington to be closer to medical care for my husband. Our apartment won't be ready for another week so we've been with my brother for the last couple weeks.

His wife is a member of Church of God..... a fundie christian church. My brother over time has migrated more and more that way. They have cut off their own daughter and I see the beginnings of cutting off their grandchildren as well.

My brother and I are both in our 60's. He's been married to her over 40 years. She was a raging sex pot when she was younger. Pretty much slept with anything that moved. Liked to start pointless drama in the family for years. Then she found Jesus in her 40's and has radicalized more and more since.

A few days ago we had an inane conversation in which she swore dinosaurs were in the garden of Eden with Adam..... it's in the Bible she said. Of course I had to ask where... show me. Next thing you know she's yelling, hugging her bible, telling me I'm burning in hell, dragging my brother out of the shower to yell at him, and slamming half the doors in the house.

She's been hiding in her room since. Skipped church. My brother finally took some food in to her yesterday. She's having a royal fit. She's threatened by my brother's sister showing up in town and shedding a light on her crazy.

I share all this as an example of what we are dealing with when it comes to the religiously insane. Get enough to these toxic crapheads together and let them have a little bit of government power and next thing you know you've got the same sort of problems other countries have with their religious zealots. You cannot reason with them. You cannot agree to disagree on anything. They will not share. Period.

I hope it does not eventually come down to another civil war here in the US but it seems to be where it's heading. I'm doing my best to be a peacemaker in my own family without much success. I have no idea how we come together as a country.

Hopefully some of you are smarter at this than I am.

[nruthie]

1. I can relate to this.

My older brother and his wife were exactly the same. Totally evangelical, tea party insane, gun toting racists from hell. Impossible to even talk to. He and I had to stop trying to talk to each other after he said he disapproved my religious and political views. He died 2 years ago..still angry. I hope he and God cleared the whole thing up.
You really can't discuss anything with people who think this way.

[KentuckyWoman]

3. Oh wow

I feel for you no end. I'm sorry my story brought it up but I am grateful you shared. It helps to know I'm not alone.

more

[Lars39]

2. I totally understand.

Just one comment or viewpoint that is contrary to their belief system and you get on the 'search and destroy' list.
Right now I am on such a list.
They monitor everything I say, parsing each sentence to see whether they need to hustle the kids from the room.
I'm regularly on the receiving end of performance art testifying.
They've gone from mildly irritating to downright offensive.
I feel like I'm being treated like a mark instead of family.
And yet if I say anything in my defense, I am the bad guy.

Over the years I've heard their viewpoints on everything under the sun, with them assuming everyone around them agrees.
I mostly keep my mouth shut to keep the peace, and because I am severely outnumbered, but this latest revelation(one of about only 3 over almost 30 years) of one of my opinions got the attention of the former SoBapt missionary sil.
She has gotten pretty aggressive...to the point that she is totally revealing her batshitidness.
I knew in my gut she was out there, but I'd rather not have first hand confirmation.

Quite frankly they make life suck.

[Chiquitita]

13. Lars39 this sounds so hard

to take. I read your post a couple of times and just want to say, I'm sorry you have to deal with this complete bullshit. It's abusive and you must have an olympic amount of patience!

[Lars39]

26. Yes! It *is* abusive.

And I don't know how much longer my patience will hold.
Thanks for the support.
"Absence keeps the heart fonder" or something like that.
Life's too short for this kind of drama.
Those that don't have fundies in the family have no idea how difficult it is avoiding the verbal landmines.

[Chiquitita]

33. You are very welcome.

Sounds like they don't deserve your precious time and person. I have fundies in my extended family, but I don't ever have to interact. Two sets of aunts and uncles. One of my cousins estranged herself when she was in her early 20s and lives out west happily away from them all. I'm in touch with her, but not with them. Sad, but there are so many other worthy people to me who feel more like family.

[smirkymonkey]

4. Wow, she really is bat-shit.

I mean seriously, clinically mentally ill. I think they all are for the most part. Sorry you have to deal with that.

[erronis]

22. Yup - been married to one who Found The Big J in the clouds.

And proceeded to make everyone's lives miserable (children's, mine, dogs).

Pretty smart person until that switch clicked and then all hell broke loose. Religion === Insanity.

[el_bryanto]

5. It's hard to know what to do in that situation

Most of my more conservative and aggressive family members are extended family and I just don't have much to do with them. I suppose if there are points of agreement you can move from those but that's not always possible. Some people enjoy the fight too much; they don't to give it up.

Bryant

[Scuba]

6. There's no crazy like God crazy.

[Javaman]

7. sounds like a case of arrested development. nt

[Pacifist Patriot]

8. When magical thinking is the foundation for your world view...

it really can lead to pretty much any insane belief.

[cleanhippie]

9. How does one define 'religiously insane'? Is it as simple as beliving in patently absurd things?

Most religions have patently absurd beliefs as part of their core teachings.

[951-Riverside]

10. I think theres a lot more to this than meets the eye & I don't think religion is the sole issue here

She was a raging sex pot when she was younger. Pretty much slept with anything that moved.

Seems like a weird way to describe her, have you tried to find out why or even how she ended up with your brother?

she found Jesus in her 40's and has radicalized more and more since.

Usually 'born again' people have suffered major trauma in their lives.

Next thing you know she's yelling, hugging her bible, telling me I'm burning in hell, dragging my brother out of the shower to yell at him, and slamming half the doors in the house.

She's been hiding in her room since. Skipped church.

It seems to me she could be a victim of abuse, possibly at the hand of your brother or suffering from an un-diagnosed mental issue. This is just not normal behavior of an independent adult.

Not blaming you here but instead of looking down on her over her beliefs or trying to challenge her, you may want try sitting down and having a normal one on one conversation with her to get to the bottom of why she believes these things and acts the way she does.

That's what I did with a relative who was deeply religious and only spewed out bible verses, I eventually found out that she went through unspeakable things in her youth and religion was her only way to cope and make sense of it, I can't fault her for that and we've since became great friends.

[mac2766]

21. Very sensible...

I have to admit that my way of dealing with this type of person is to completely ignore them. They're free to worship whatever/whomever. I just to don't have to take part in it. If I were in the OPs situation, I'd find another place to stay if at all possible.

[snooper2]

30. blah blah, not really, most fundies just aren't very smart to begin with

I mean, really, WTF goes on in the brain to cause this type of behavior LOL

paise the lard!

[KentuckyWoman]

31. Her mother was a crazy maniac self styled fundie preacher

Picture Westboro Baptist. First she rebelled (sex pot days) then she found my brother, who's mostly the voice of reason, then she got sucked back into the Jesus crazy. So yeah, there's a lot going on with her and I think my brother is just trying to survive without having to resort to divorce. They are economically dependent on each other so it makes it more difficult.


I love my sister in law. She's been through a lot in one life. We used to be able to converse like humans. There's no having a normal conversation with her at this point. She's convinced everyone who does not lock step agree with her churches version of reality is demonic and out to hurt her. And I'm not kidding on that.

I'm convinced she needs professional help but saying so to my brother will not be taken well. At least not yet.....

Anyways, you are correct.... lots a crap beyond the crazy.

[roody]

11. Skipping church is a big no no.

[Hayduke Bomgarte]

12. Sounds like my own sister in law

Her big thing, these past few months, has been the same sex marriage issue. Of course Kim Davis is her hero du jour and deserves nothing short of outright worship.

Her justification for her foaming at the mouth, spittle flinging, irrational tirades against gays and her stubborn refusal to even consider the civil rights aspects of same sex marriage, are based on a relatively obscure old testament passage, in Leviticus. How it's an abomination that demands the deaths of participants.

I've pointed out to her that the passage is 38th or 39th in the list of "Leviticus abominations", and that either the things listed before are worse, OR all things listed are equal abominations. That those worse/equal things include not touching a pig, much less eating pork. She regularly makes weekend family breakfasts of eggs/ham/bacon. On the holiest of xtian holy days, Easter and xmas she serves huge baked ham dinners.

She wears blended fabrics, which Leviticus forbids as it also does working on Sunday, which she also does.

When I've pointed out to her the forbidden things she does, herself, her response is that the new testament supersedes the old testament, and because those things forbidden in Leviticus are not mentioned in the new testament, we are no longer bound by them.

When I've countered that, with her own reasoning, that wearing blends, eating pork, working on the sabbath are no longer "abominations" then neither is the gay lifestyle.

Her next move is to shriek that I'm wrong I just don't understand. The bible forbids it. It's right there in black and white.

There is no chance of reasonable, rational dialogue with these people.

As added bonus, I get to work with a guy who is just like my SIL, who is also a gun nut. He feels the neeed to pack a gun while at work. We drive cement and dump trucks. Go figure.

[kiri]

24. born again... means he gave up fundie beliefs and embraced humanism--magical incantation

A neighbor/friend here found an interesting way to handle his fundie extended family gatherings. He/his family are humanists, non-theists, and go to a Unitarian-Universalist church.

He tells them he is born again, by which "he means he gave up fundie beliefs and embraced humanism". He points out that his kids go to Sunday
School (UU). When hearing a rant, he says Praise Jesus, Praise God, or the like. That keeps them at bay.

He tells me he is no longer harrassed. It's like "Praise..." is a magical incantation. He refuses to be drawn out. And usually turns the conversation to economic issues. I guess this could be considered hypocritical, but it deflates the ranters.

[jalan48]

14. Great post. The face of religious extremism.

[3catwoman3]

15. Might as well try talking to an erupting volcano...

...or a hurricane.

[2naSalit]

23. So you are saying that

because her parents were Muslim they were extremists? Or do you just assume that they were extremists because perhaps they just didn't approve of you?

[2naSalit]

28. Could you please elaborate on what makes them

extremist? I live in mormonland and they send people to my home sometimes and I tell them they are against my religion and I don't believe in them and close the door. Do they threaten you with harm in some way or try to intimidate or coerce you in some way?

They sent people to your home to do what? You're playing a dangerous game by being so vague, much like those of whom this OP is about.

[Ms. Yertle]

17. Just my opinion

You are a guest in her home, and under the circumstances, I don't think you should have been questioning her deeply held religious beliefs. There are times that it's better to just hold your tongue and nod, especially when you know it isn't going to do any good and may in fact instigate more drama.

[2naSalit]

29. Interestingly

in my experience, just being their presence and not buying their BS is enough to have them constantly antagonize you into a fight... really, they want this fight like an addiction to adrenaline rush or something. Had several of these in my immediate family, anything you say or do will be used as a cudgel.

[KentuckyWoman]

32. Actually I didn't mean to question her beliefs.

One minute we were talking hot flashes and the next minute she was telling me I was going to hell. I was desperately trying to explain she misunderstood when she flounced off flapping her arms, hugging her bible and yelled at my brother for 4 hours afterwards.

It was a scene from bizarro world.

[SHRED]

18. You committed a "sin"

You asked her a question.

[Moostache]

19. My in-laws are despicable thumpers...

Hypocrites to the nth degree.

Long story short...my father-in-law has cut off communication with his only daughter at the behest of his second wife and their cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs church. This man allowed his born-again (formerly hell-on-wheels, naturally) second wife to dictate that he must choose between his flesh and blood daughter or her and their church.

He made his choice and we have not seen them in 8 years. The only reason I care at all is that it is painful to my wife.

As the father of 3 daughters, I would NEVER allow ANYONE to tell me that I would have to cut-off contact with them. I'd sooner die than have that happen. I have less than zero respect for the "man" that my father-in-law is and its just as well that they stay away and do not show up on our doorstep. He would not like how I would describe him to his face if they did show up.

True people of faith do not disturb me, but propagandists and charlatans who use the church moniker really piss me off.

[MJJP21]

20. The Truth Will Set You Free ,

but first it will piss you off. I suspect the irrational behavior is because she is beginning to realize that her beliefs are based on myths and nothing more.

[2naSalit]

27. Been down that path

with several relatives in the past, I managed to get away from them while I was young and stayed away. Had several religions crammed down my throat and up my butt for the first 16 years of my life which brought me to the conclusion that there is nothing to believe in. There are facts, there are ideas and there are wishes... when they come together in a good way it's awesome but when the focus is only on one or two of these and one bases their life upon them, there's gonna be trouble.

One premise for most religions is the requirement that EVERYONE else has to believe in the same thing... which is absolutely impossible.

As Mrs. Smith once said to me, "If you want to gain control over a large population in a hurry, start a religion."