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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI made six charts comparing US and Canadian healthcare spending
Last edited Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:08 AM - Edit history (1)
I'm still playing around with Mathematica, and I thought I'd practice doing charts again.
I took these data from Canada's CIHI NHE report and the US's CMS NHE report, and converted Canada's amounts to US dollars.
First, let's look at Canada's healthcare spending by the source of the money:
As you can see, the lion's share of healthcare payments are made by the provinces, with a sizeable chunk by out of pocket spending and private insurance (not all drugs are covered in all circumstances; you can pay for a room upgrade in a hospital; some voluntary procedures aren't covered, etc.; it's not as if literally all healthcare spending in Canada is public money, in fact about a quarter is private money).
Now we can compare it to the US's healthcare spending by source:
As you can see, the Federal government and private insurance roughly split the lion's share, there's a whole category of "charity" that doesn't exist in Canada (it actually does; I just couldn't make it visible on the Canada chart because it's so small), and out of pocket and state/local governments pick up most of the rest (the "capital" wedge in both cases is an accounting convention about how you deal with things like mortgages on buildings and R&D -- a hospital might pay $100 million for a new wing, but that cost notionally gets spread out over decades).
One interesting point pops out immediately: Canada funds a higher percentage (14%) of its total spending out-of-pocket than the US does (12%), though because our costs are so much higher our per capita out of pocket spending is more, as we'll see here:
This is per capita healthcare spending in US dollars (Canada is on the left, the US is on the right).
We exceed Canada in per capita spending from every source except local government (I'm using "local" to encompass mostly both provinces and states, though smaller jurisdictions do also provide some funding in both countries). However, that may just be a Federalism issue: our per capita public spending ($4129) is fairly close to Canada's per capita public spending ($3245), we just do more of that spending federally.
Our per capita capital spending is higher too: $516 in the US vs. $148 in Canada. Some of this reflects the fact that we have more research labs and institutions in the US, but it also points to a bigger issue. Canada has 4.17 hospitals per 100K people, while the US has only 1.79 hospitals per 100K people -- the fact that their capital expenses are so much lower than ours is surprising, given that, and particularly given their lower population density overall (which generally makes infrastructure more expensive).
And, of course, our huge funding difference is in private insurance: $3022 per capita in the US vs $560 per capita in Canada.
So that's where our monies are coming from. Where are they going? Here's Canada:
and here's the US:
Not really much of a difference stands out there. We are spending more than Canada as a percent of total on overhead (8% vs 3.1% -- this includes public program administration costs and private insurance profits in both countries), hospitals (35.7% vs. 29.6%), and physicians (22.3% vs. 15.5%), while spending less than Canada as a percent of total on nursing homes (5.9% vs 10.1%), and drugs (10.1% vs. 15.8%).
But, again, that's only relative to each country's total healthcare spending. When you look at absolute per capita spending, it's immediately apparent how much more we pay for every service than Canada does:
Note that pharmaceuticals and nursing homes (labeled "other institutions" here) are essentially identical per capita between both countries -- we aren't really paying much more for drugs than Canada is. We're paying more in overhead (though not all that much in absolute terms), a lot more for physicians, and a hell of a lot more to hospitals.
Snobblevitch
(1,958 posts)but I do know know my cousin in Manitoba had to wait 2-1/2 years for surgery on her ankle. She would have had the surgery in Fargo if she had the money.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)Yeah, that's a problem, isn't it?
Snobblevitch
(1,958 posts)That there is the money with the system...
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Rationing can happen in multiple ways. In the US we do it by pricing, which is odious. Canada does it by scheduling and supply-side limits. Their way on the whole is better.
Snobblevitch
(1,958 posts)At the time, the U.S. had more mri machines dedicated to pets than Canada had to humans. (Early 1990s.)
LoveIsNow
(356 posts)"I reject statistical evidence and substitute the anecdotal kind."
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Good work. Facts are really informing ... when we want them to be.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Surely you jest!
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I wonder what the break out on healthcare financing for the other industrialized countries.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)The problem is every country publishes this in their native language. I'll do what I can.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)what our system will look like.
longship
(40,416 posts)Jim Beard
(2,535 posts)and after I read your charts I saw the big difference between both countries is completely different. In the US, the Federal government is the largest money contributor and the other way in Canada.
It struck me that there are 12 provinces in Canada where there are 50 states in the US.. It would be a nightmare to have fifty local state insurance companies. It would have to be Fed. financed and local administration like we now have Medicare.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Which notionally have their own budget but are mostly funded by Federal grants. So if you counted it that way Canadian Federal spending would be somewhat higher and provincial spending would be somewhat lower, but either way their spending is much more local than ours.
Jim Beard
(2,535 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)As compared to about 50% of healthcare spending in the US.
tristancalm
(1 post)thanks for the info
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)Roughly, O'Malley is proposing the price and budget controls that Canada has, and Sanders is proposing the financing system that Canada has.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)Try using the "LinearSolve" function (or SolveLinear or whatever it's called) to solve linear equations, with the modulus set to a composite integer.
Then weep. Or, alternatively, let me know how you got it to work!
Recursion
(56,582 posts)LinearSolve(m,b) finds x such that m dot x = b.
LinearSolve(m) is a closure that can be applied to multiple b matrices.
What problems are you having with it?
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)It's fine over the real numbers, and it's fine if you set Modulus->p and p is prime.
But if you try it mod a composite number - especially something very smooth like a power of 2 - it often fails to find solutions even when they exist.
Not that I'm bitter at having recently wasted half a days work because Mathematica lied to me about my system being insoluble, or anything...
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I'm kind of curious what your use case is...
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)So the linear relations became linear relations mod 2^32.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)joshcryer
(62,274 posts)Wonder how it would look if we had a public option.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I'm not sure what real difference the actual public administration makes in that...
joshcryer
(62,274 posts)I was under the impression that the Federal government was going to set up its own insurer.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Even Medicare provisions through private insurers nowadays; there really are some things the private sector does better.
Of all people, Baucus had an idea that was interesting; he wanted regional insurance co-operatives like Germany has. I wish that had gotten more play.
But, anyways, whatever financing model we adopt, we really need to address the fact that providers need to make about 40% less than they do now, while providing about 20% more care. Any thoughts on how to start that conversation with them?
joshcryer
(62,274 posts)No conversation starts with "you get less money and do more for it."
But I just did some digging and the "community health insurance option" as passed by the House was certainly a Federal level insurance option (voluntary and states could opt out; which probably a lot of Southern states would've done).
Good overview: http://www.americanbenefitscouncil.org/pub/e609cdaf-9219-da12-b9c7-254567254fd8
Recursion
(56,582 posts)It's weird that for a brief shining moment there the House was actually the source of liberal legislation rather than its graveyard...
joshcryer
(62,274 posts)Control+F to find it: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/hr3590/text
It was struck down by SEC. 10905. MODIFICATION OF ANNUAL FEE ON HEALTH INSURANCE PROVIDERS.
Sec. 10905 (f)(2) to be specific:
Not too surprising that it got put in there since we held the House by a large majority. Just a damn shame Lieberman was a turncoat and Teddy died and Al Franken didn't get seated until the whole voting window was over.
This is what Obama, Clinton and Edwards wanted in the 2008 primaries, they all argued for it. It's one reason I supported the mandate (and still do for other reasons; wouldn't be hard to put this Federal insurer back in there).
If it was in there 9 out of 10 people who didn't already have employer insurance would've jumped on board. It would've killed a lot of the insurance industry over time. Including the non-profits.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)But the problem isn't overhead, nor is it pharma: it's what we're actually paying providers, mostly hospitals, but also physicians.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Is that in Canada the costs are diffused through the population, while in the US, almost all of the cost falls on the person who needs the drug. Even without theorizing on the prevalence of Martin Shkreli's in the industry itself, the reality is that in the US people go without, for the plain fact they can't afford what they need, while in Canada, the cost is still there, but all of it does not fall on the needy.
It's like the initial reply to the post said, "if she had had the money" - a lot of Americans don't have the money
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)There's extensive anecdotal evidence that many drugs are much cheaper or at least somewhat cheaper in Canada. If our per capita spending on drugs is only a little higher, my guess is that the difference would be much greater if the only factor were the higher prices here. Another factor is probably that Americans who are uninsured or underinsured (high co-pay and/or high deductible) more often decide to forgo filling a prescription.
As in other areas, we are paying more for less health care.
Vinca
(50,273 posts)for insurance company profits? That eats up a whole lot of cash that might otherwise go to medical care.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)It's not nearly, even remotely, as much as you think. The chart shows you.
karynnj
(59,503 posts)Thank you for posting this.