I keep seeing Robert Lewis Dear being described as a "Christian Terrorist" here.

[Nye Bevan]

But I'm a little confused as to why. Perhaps eyewitnesses heard him yelling "this is for Jesus" as he committed the murders? Was he a known member of some fundamentalist Christian church? Perhaps a Christian extremist group has stepped forward to claim responsibility for his actions? Or at the very least, surely some of his neighbors or friends have mentioned his extremist Christian views? Because I'm sure DUers would not be making assumptions about a murderer's religion without any evidence whatsoever.

[Rex]

1. Well he meant to blow up a PP center with butane tanks, who knows why right?

True we should not confuse Xtians with fundamentalists. Thanks.

[Hepburn]

2. Only thing I read that is odd is that the RWs are claiming Dear is

a trans woman. '

What next?

[Kath1]

4. Really.

What next?

He's actually black and Muslim, too?

[Blue_In_AK]

6. He apparently listed himself as female on his voter registration.

He registered as UAF. All I can find is a British organization United Against Fascism.

[Grassy Knoll]

10. UAF = Unaffiliated or Independent Voter

Not the British thingy.

[Blue_In_AK]

42. Oh, okay. That makes sense.

Up here they just put a "U" for unaffiliated.

[Chan790]

52. Sometimes people are dumb.

For a very long time, I was a volunteer host on a prominent dating site on the internet before they were sold to Match...in my time there as a host, the number one issue I was asked by users to fix was that they had accidentally registered for the site as women seeking men when they were actually men seeking women.

People are dumb and many cannot follow simple directions. I am going to assume Dear is a moron, not a transperson until he says otherwise.

[randome]

53. In fairness, most web sites are poorly designed.

Too much color, too bright, and not enough white space or any sense of organization. The mind sometimes glazes over.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

[riversedge]

58. I read that a few times but do not where it originated.

[blitzen]

3. Nice try...

Your Islamophobia is subtle, latent, but still evident.

[rjsquirrel]

45. Precisely eom

[Electric Monk]

5. No true Scotsman?

That is the most common reason I know of for someone to be vehemently opposed to PP.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. Only a few facts have trickled out about this guy,

since apparently he had no social media presence at all. He is said to have made a remark about "no more baby parts," so we can reasonably conclude he had some kind of pro-life agenda. He also has a long history of anti-social and occasionally violent behavior, so we can also fairly conclude that he's a nasty-ass, creepy guy you wouldn't want for a next-door neighbor. He could be mentally ill; I think you can safely say he isn't normal. So far, though, I haven't read any reports suggesting a specifically religious motive or an affiliation with any religion. That could still come out. But it hasn't yet.

I got beat up a bit in another thread for suggesting we wait a bit for more information before making assumptions about his motives. But I guess that would interfere with the narrative that all domestic terrorists are necessarily right-wing Christians. Many of them are, but a few have turned out to have other motives. I'm sure we'll know soon enough what got this particular dirtbag stirred up enough to commit mass murder.

[arcane1]

9. Stop it with your rationality! You're ruining it!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

11. Oh. Sorry.

{shuffles off in shame, hanging head}

[2naSalit]

27. I said in another thread

that I would be interested in what the survivors had to say and got some oddly snarky comment.

I do wonder why the silence and delay of info is all we;ve had so far. The clinic will be closed until it has been thoroughly searched for bombs and stuff so that's gonna suck for those who need the facility for services.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

31. I expect the survivors' stories will come out before long as well.

Maybe they don't want to talk to the press just yet. I sure wouldn't. The other two people who were killed haven't been publicly identified yet, apparently because of some rules in Colorado about autopsies and consent of next of kin. They will probably drag the perp's ugly ass into court on Monday for an arraignment, and a lot of information will start coming out then. I'd rather wait and get accurate information than get immediate, random gossip and speculation.

[2naSalit]

37. That makes two of us.

There's so little info and even with the Buzzfeed article, there's not a lot of "there" there.

[840high]

32. Some on DU are always

eager to jump in with their biases. I'll wait for some facts.

[Chan790]

54. His neighbors reported that he's recently starting adorning his house with many twig crosses.

I'm going to assume when it is all clear and out that Dear is mentally-ill and the "Baby Jesus" recently talked to him through his oatmeal.

That does suggest a religious motive, though not necessarily a sane one.

[smirkymonkey]

8. Because extremist christian fundamentalist views helped to foment his hatred

of Planned Parenthood and there is a pretty good chance that he could count himself among them (the cross on the shed - major clue). It is pretty well known that the major force behind the anti-choice movement is the christian right.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

12. And you know all of this how exactly?

And to the OP, yes the double-standard is alive and well here at DU in this matter.

If I recall correctly, two weeks ago as the Paris attacks were in-progress, there was a great deal of criticism of those that assumed the attack was being carried out by Islamic extremists...turns out the attacks were carried out by Islamic extremists.

But no issue whatsoever with assuming the attack on Planned Parenthood was carried out by a Christian extremist. It may well, and in fact probably will, turn out to be the case. But the hypocrisy is striking.

[smirkymonkey]

16. Birds of a feather? Similar agendas?

I don't know, you do the math. "It's all for the babeeees".

[840high]

33. I remember that.

[Arugula Latte]

66. I don't have a double standard. I think both belief systems, Islam and Christianity,

suck mightily and have done untold harm to the planet, and particularly to the female inhabitants thereof.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

67. 100% valid belief

I'm speaking more to the double standard about assumptions when a terrorist act occurs though. We (in general) are never supposed to assume an act of terror such as occurred in Paris is the result of radical Islamic terrorism, but we're all supposed to assume an act of terror such as occurred in Colorado Springs was radical Christian terrorism.

[hrmjustin]

13. What would you call him?

[Rex]

14. He told officers, 'no more baby parts'. What do you think he meant by that?

Some here are confused about why he went into a PP center with butane tanks, I can't imagine what that and his comments could mean.

I guess nobody can.

[hrmjustin]

15. I think it is obvious he was there to attack PP.

On DI the resident rwers are trying to say it was a bank robbery.

[Rex]

17. Why is that not surprising, someone posted earlier the RWingers were saying he is a Dem.

They are pulling a Foxnews.

[hrmjustin]

18. They don't want to admit their rhetoric and lies about PP lead to this

incident.

[Rex]

19. Agree.

Their hypocrisy knows no bounds! Good to see you your majesty.

[hrmjustin]

20. Thanks! It is good to be back.

[Rex]

21. Good to have you back!

[840high]

41. I would call him killer till

more facts are known.

[OilemFirchen]

22. While in absolute agreement with the sentiment of your post...

this photo of his cabin near Black Mountain, N.C. may be a bit evidential:



http://www.buzzfeed.com/aliciamelvillesmith/heres-what-we-know-about-planned-parenthood-suspect#.gjOXJ75ro

[840high]

34. I wear a cross and have

never nor will I ever kill anyone.

[OilemFirchen]

39. Like I said...

it may be evidential.

Does your house wear a cross? Is it nearly the height of your house?

[840high]

40. I was not raised to put a cross

on a house. I always wear it.

[B2G]

63. It's not nearly that big

[OilemFirchen]

64. Thanks.

My feeble eyes didn't see it in this picture. The other was a bit deceiving.

Curiously, and apropos of nothing, my house does wear a mezuzah. A tiny one, mind you, but it's there.

[ms liberty]

23. I would call him a domestic terrorist

rather than a Christian terrorist. We don't really know yet if his problem was one of excessive fundamentalist views, some other issue or (my personal hypothesis) a combination of more than one problem/disfunction compounded by an entirely too easy access to firearms.

[uppityperson]

30. Welcome to DU. I am curious what you think of this graphic from your Facebook page?

I assume since you shared it that you agree with it but wanted to ask.

https://m.facebook.com/ericjodomfb/photos/a.10151916977533432.1073741825.195590938431/10152870213648432/?type=3&source=48

For those who don't Facebook, it says
if Islam is a religion of peace, why aren't Islamic extremists extremely peaceful

I am asking in light of how you define extremist in your blog name. "how does Christian + extremist = religious nutjob terrorist?"

Thank you.

[Orrex]

62. Well played!

Pity our esteemed new member isn't around to read it.

[JanMichael]

25. well black mountain nc has one of the craziest chuches in the usa and he attacked PP.

swananowhere is also nutty.

odds are he is a jesus freak loon that talks to snakes.

odds are not good that he is a granola chomping secular humanist.

[Demit]

26. The NYT had a couple of details regarding his religiosity.

His ex-wife was quoted as saying, “He believed wholeheartedly in the Bible. That’s what he always said, he read it cover to cover to cover.” And then, he apparently wrote on a message board in 2005: “AIDS, hurricanes, we are in the end times. Accept the LORD JESUS while you can.”

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

36. But the ex-wife also said "he wasn't fixated on it."

That was more than 15 years ago, though. The NY Times article is interesting. The ex said he was basically fairly normal when they were together and is shocked at what seems to have happened to him since.

Mr. Dear was an independent art dealer, with a degree in public administration from a Midwestern college, Ms. Ross said. He was born in Charleston and grew up in Louisville, Ky., but he had strong ties to South Carolina. His father was a graduate of the Citadel, Charleston’s famous public military college. Robert Lewis Dear Sr., the father, died in 2004. He was a United States Navy veteran who served in World War II and worked 40 years for the Liggett & Myers Tobacco Company.

The younger Mr. Dear was raised in the Baptist church, Ms. Ross said. He was religious but not a regular churchgoer, not one to harp on his faith. “He believed wholeheartedly in the Bible. That’s what he always said, he read it cover to cover to cover,” she said But he wasn’t fixated on it, she added.

He was generally conservative, but not obsessed with politics. He kept guns around the house for personal protection and hunting, and he taught their son to hunt doves, as many Southern fathers do. He believed that abortion was wrong, but it was not something that he spoke about compulsively. “It was never really a topic of discussion,” Ms. Ross said. He did not have many close friends.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/us/ex-wife-recalls-colorado-gunman-as-imperfect-but-a-good-man.html

[rjsquirrel]

44. Lol dove hunting

So manly.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

46. It's very popular in the south for some reason.

[Chan790]

55. Do they eat them? Taxidermy? Trash heap?

I'm not sure I see the motivation for dove-hunting.

[Snobblevitch]

59. Most often,

the breasts are removed and eaten. The rest of the bird is mostly too small to eat.

[hopemountain]

74. and nevada. nt

[Demit]

48. Yeah, but reading it cover to cover, and constantly pointing that out, indicates some

degree of devotion. It's a big book and very tedious in places.

The ex-wife can shed some light on what he was like 15+ years ago, but...I think her instincts are right when she alludes to a major change in him having happened since.

[HERVEPA]

29. I agree.

Certainly Jews and atheists and Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists are known for attacking Planned Parenthood clinics.

[Rex]

38. Easy now...they are doing some performance art of suddenly forgetting how to think critically for

themselves. It is cute in a way.

[6000eliot]

35. Now you know how Muslims feel.

[rjsquirrel]

43. Oh please

Anti-abortion hate speech and terror emanates from the Christian right.

Evangelical Christians support terrorism.

[Kalidurga]

47. Must be a Shinto cross on his house

He committed acts of terror so the terrorist part shouldn't be in question.

[KG]

49. I lulz'd

as usual

[ericson00]

50. k/r! its merely a deflection of too many on the left

who wanna keep avoiding talking about Islamic terrorism. Even tho even if this guy DID meet the criteria in your OP, fact is of all the religions today, more terrorist attacks happen in the name and cause of Islam than any other religion and in more places with more victims.

[randome]

51. Are you saying that Christian terrorists are different from Muslim terrorists?

If so, I'd agree with you. The only thing they have in common is terrorism based on religion.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

[Bluenorthwest]

56. Anti-abortion terrorism is a recognized form of Christian terrorism. In the US there have been at

least 8 people murdered, 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 assaults, 100 acid attacks, 41 bombings and 3 kidnappings done by such persons, each and every one of them motivated by their fundamentalist Christian views.
Similar terrorism has occurred in Australia, Canada and New Zealand, again always by people from the same philosophical territory....

Jesus ordered his followers to speak honestly and without 'spin'. I suggest that they consider following his words for once.

[hobbit709]

57. If the shoe fits.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

60. That's right: Christian terrorist. Nice try, though. Not! nt

[TheSarcastinator]

61. the thunder of your cognitive dissonance is deafening

Yeah, you're "confused" all right. No doubt about it.

[aka-chmeee]

65. If it quacks like a Duck..........nt

[Heidi]

68. Are you just here to stir shit?

Serious question. I only ask because of your posting patterns.

[PeaceNikki]

69. Well, I am fine with Dear being called a "Christian terrorist", so there's that.

[Heidi]

70. Me, too.

What I'm not fine with is people masquerading as progressives in a so-called progressive community.

Love you, PeaceNikki, 100 jillion percent.

[PeaceNikki]

71. You, too, Heidi!!

[Nye Bevan]

73. Would you visit the DU website as frequently as you do now

if you agreed with every single opinion expressed here? Isn't it more interesting to debate stuff that not necessarily every DUer concurs with than to dutifully add "+1" and "I agree" to threads about how Donald Trump sucks and Ted Cruz is awful?

[muriel_volestrangler]

72. "AIDS, hurricanes, we are in the end times. Accept the LORD JESUS while you can."

He seemed to have a separate life online. An online personals ad seeking women in North Carolina interested in bondage and sadomasochistic sex showed a picture that appeared to be Dear and used an online pseudonym associated with him. The same user also appeared to have turned to online message boards to seek companions in the Asheville area with whom he could smoke marijuana.

On the Cannabis.com site, the writer in December 2005 said: "AIDS, hurricanes, we are in the end times. Accept the LORD JESUS while you can."

http://www.tampabay.com/news/nation/suspect-in-colorado-attack-called-loner-who-left-few-clues/2255706