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Putin has been extremely busy invading sovereign countries air space (Original Post) IsItJustMe Nov 2015 OP
. jberryhill Nov 2015 #1
In the UK too. StrayKat Nov 2015 #2
I'm short on time, but SCVDem Nov 2015 #3
Yes, lots of new lows. IsItJustMe Nov 2015 #6
+1. bemildred Nov 2015 #7
No a "friendly" would not have been shot down TexasProgresive Nov 2015 #8
You live in a glass house nationalize the fed Nov 2015 #4
yep 840high Nov 2015 #5
Glass houses is right. But anything to further the red-baiting Russophobia here polly7 Nov 2015 #9
Remember 1983 Mendocino Nov 2015 #10
And if our air defense capablities had been up to snuff 09/11/2001 TexasProgresive Nov 2015 #11

StrayKat

(570 posts)
2. In the UK too.
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 01:41 AM
Nov 2015

Russian bomber approached UK air space in September of this year:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/raf-typhoons-stop-russian-bomber-6428076

Earlier this year, the Mirror revealed RAF jets challenged Russian planes under the QRA, triggered when mystery aircraft appear on radar, 88 times between 2005 and the end of 2014.

Moscow claims the flights are routine training missions but experts say they are used to test reaction times and gather intelligence.


Current search by RAF/France/Canadians for submarine off Scotland:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34896956

An RAF plane is "conducting activity" off the Scottish coast, the Ministry of Defence says, amid reports of a Russian submarine being spotted in the area.

A Royal Navy Frigate and submarine are also thought to be involved in the search, along with Canadian and French maritime patrol aircraft.

 

SCVDem

(5,103 posts)
3. I'm short on time, but
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 01:50 AM
Nov 2015

Russia has numbers, not quality. Do you think a friendly would have been shot down by a 16?

As a vet I find it offensive that the ground forces shot helpless pilots in a harness. That is so wrong.

Charges should be brought, or a quick field justice.

You just don't do that! They could have been ours!

There is no Geneva Convention in place here. Do the Republican hawks realize what happens to prisoners?

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
7. +1.
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 07:55 AM
Nov 2015

This casual attitude about protection of our prisoners in war is annoying to me too. If the rules don't protect everybody, they protect nobody.

TexasProgresive

(12,157 posts)
8. No a "friendly" would not have been shot down
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 11:26 AM
Nov 2015

Because the IFF Transponder would've responded with the current friendly code.

Back when George I declared a "no fly" zone in Northern Iraq to protect the Kurds from Saddam's chopper attacks a UN chopper full of high level people was shot down. The explanation is the IFF did not respond with the new safe code.

Last report I read 1 pilot was rescued by Russian forces from Turkman fighters operating in Serbia. The other was killed by the same group. Not to give them a break, but since this group was the target of the Russian bombs I can see that as elevating their anger. These things happen in war.

Considering that we would not allow the guerrillas the protections of the Geneva Convention it seems moot to even bring that up.

nationalize the fed

(2,169 posts)
4. You live in a glass house
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 01:55 AM
Nov 2015

Even if they have been "invading sovereign countries air space"- Let's compare Russia to the US over the last 20 years

Who is behind this?

Iraq 1
Serbia (no it wasn't about genocide*)
Afghanistan
Iraq 2
Libya
Syria

How about before 1990?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions

After the Berlin Wall fell your leaders decided to go for it. And they did. And they want you to think Russia is expansionist- while they illegally try to overthrow the elected government of Syria. Don't be a fool. And look up PNAC



"We have no choice but to re-instill in our foes and friends the fear that attaches to any great power.... Only a war against Saddam Hussein will decisively restore the awe that protects American interests abroad and citizens at home" PNAC fellow Reuel Marc Gerecht
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century#Focus_on_military_strategies.2C_versus_diplomatic_strategies



*http://web.archive.org/web/20030622122722/http://www.newamericancentury.org/balkans.htm

polly7

(20,582 posts)
9. Glass houses is right. But anything to further the red-baiting Russophobia here
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 11:33 AM
Nov 2015

and divert away from who has helped create and fund IS and their brutal terrorist acts that the hated Russia is at least trying to stop. Even going so far as to laugh about the deaths of a pilot down shot parachuting and a rescuer trying to locate these men. It's sick.

Pilger - From Pol Pot to ISIS: The blood never dried

Bush and Blair blew all this to bits. Iraq is now a nest of jihadism. Al-Qaeda - like Pol Pot's "jihadists" - seized the opportunity provided by the onslaught of 'Shock and Awe' and the civil war that followed. "Rebel" Syria offered even greater rewards, with CIA and Gulf state ratlines of weapons, logistics and money running through Turkey. The arrival of foreign recruits was inevitable. A former British ambassador, Oliver Miles, wrote, "The [Cameron] government seems to be following the example of Tony Blair, who ignored consistent advice from the Foreign Office, MI5 and MI6 that our Middle East policy - and in particular our Middle East


The only effective opponents of ISIS are accredited demons of the west - Syria, Iran, Hezbollah and now Russia. The obstacle is Turkey, an "ally" and a member of Nato, which has conspired with the CIA, MI6 and the Gulf medievalists to channel support to the Syrian "rebels", including those now calling themselves ISIS. Supporting Turkey in its long-held ambition for regional dominance by overthrowing the Assad government beckons a major conventional war and the horrific dismemberment of the most ethnically diverse state in the Middle East.


Full article: http://johnpilger.com/articles/from-pol-pot-to-isis-the-blood-never-dried


Anti-Empire Report #140

by William Blum / November 3rd, 2015

Are you confused by the Middle East? Here are some things you should know. (But you’ll probably still be confused.)

-The US, France, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar, and the Gulf monarchies have all in the recent past supported al Qaeda and/or the Islamic State (ISIS) with arms, money, and/or manpower.
-The first example of this was in 1979 when the United States began covert operations in Afghanistan, six months before the Russians arrived, promoting Islamic fundamentalism across the southern tier of the Soviet Union against “godless communism”. All the al-Qaeda/Taliban shit then followed.
-In addition to Afghanistan, the United States has provided support to Islamic militants in Bosnia, Kosovo, Libya, the Caucasus, and Syria.
-The United States overthrew the secular governments of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya and is trying to do the same with Syria, thus giving great impetus to the rise of ISIS. Said Barack Obama in March of this year: “ISIS is a direct outgrowth of al-Qaeda in Iraq that grew out of our invasion. Which is an example of unintended consequences. Which is why we should generally aim before we shoot.”1


The United States, I suggest, is hostile to the Syrian government for the same reason it has been hostile to Cuba for more than half a century; and hostile to Venezuela for the past 15 years; and earlier to Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia; and to Dominican Republic, Uruguay, and Chile; and so on continuing through the world atlas and history books.

What these governments have had in common can be summarized in a single word – independence … independence from American foreign policy; the refusal to be a client state of Washington; the refusal to be continuously hostile to Washington’s Officially Designated Enemies; insufficient respect and zeal for the capitalist way of life.


Since the end of World War 2, the United States has:

Attempted to overthrow more than 50 foreign governments, most of which were democratically-elected.
Dropped bombs on the people of more than 30 countries.
Attempted to assassinate more than 50 foreign leaders.
Attempted to suppress a populist or nationalist movement in 20 countries.
Grossly interfered in democratic elections in at least 30 countries.4
Plus … although not easily quantified … more involved in the practice of torture than any other country in the world … for over a century … not just performing the actual torture, but teaching it, providing the manuals, and furnishing the equipment.


Full article: http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/11/the-deadly-ongoing-role-of-the-us-in-the-middle-east-and-beyond/#more-60317

Mendocino

(7,504 posts)
10. Remember 1983
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 12:09 PM
Nov 2015

They used missiles to bring down a commercial airliner, Korea Air 007 that nicked their airspace, killing 269.

TexasProgresive

(12,157 posts)
11. And if our air defense capablities had been up to snuff 09/11/2001
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 01:26 PM
Nov 2015

American Airlines flight 77 and United Airlines flight 93 would have been put down as well. The were out of route, transponder not responding to interrogation and the WTC had been hit. I don't think in the short distance from Logan to NYC those airliners could've been intercepted in time. What was the 1st Air Force and the Eastern Air Defense Sector doing? Why didn't they launch the hot birds ASAP?

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