The dynamics of "safe space" are visible here at DU all of the time

[Chitown Kev]

Even within the "safe space" of DU, this post occurred, was recced, and stood the jury test...in fact it still stands.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=687330

Whereas in the even "safer space" of the AA group, this post was hidden by a 7-0 jury decision.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118729258

In my experience, this is how the dialectic of public spaces and designated "safe spaces" works in the real world. The majority very often don't give a damn about "safe spaces" and, in fact, don't have a problem disturbing the safety of those spaces whenever they feel like it.

Chew on that for a minute.

[randys1]

1. I wish your examples were aberrations , but they are common place.

DU is absolutely NOT a safe space for , well, you know.

[Chitown Kev]

3. It is a safe space to a certain extent

For example, no advocacy for Republican politicians and/or third policies, I believe, so in the context of discussing politics, it is a designated "safe space" for discussing Democratic politics (albeit privately owned but it is freely available).

Groups exist here for providing an even "safer space."

But (and Dylann Roof was a spectacular and extreme example of this...I chose a far far far milder example) majorities really don't give a damn about the reasons that people choose" safer spaces...

[randys1]

4. My friend was just making that point about Roof on another board. My comment means

that when I speak BLUNTLY about racism and especially racism on DU, it is not safe for me to do so from the standpoint of hides.

[LittleBlue]

14. You should explain what you mean by "safe"

Everyone here is perfectly safe from harm. Nobody is unsafe.

Are we safe from opinions we don't like? Absolutely not. And Goddess willing, it will stay that way so long as this is a free country.

[Chitown Kev]

17. Mention that "perfectly safe from harm" piece

to bravenak.

Explain what you mean by "harm"

[JustAnotherGen]

23. Good point re "harm"

[bravenak]

38. You mean when they track you down to send you mail personally?

Ummm hmm. I did not feel safe from 'opinions' at the time. Since they made sure that they knew where I lived and made sure I knew they knew. Kinda not safe. But whatever, nobody bet not show up, it would be a sad occasion.

[JustAnotherGen]

18. I think he means safe from

Racialist nonsense.

A member at DU uses that word - racialist.

Almost as silly as the new age nonsense around here.

[randys1]

24. My use of the word "safe" refers to my hides when I call out racism, even when I dont do

it specifically, just in general.

Has happened often.

[Electric Monk]

2. Nice callout of WillyT. Real classy. Better hope your OP isn't hidden, as well. nt

[randys1]

6. Dont know about the call out, but any honest discussion of race probably will be hidden here

[JustAnotherGen]

10. Why would it be hidden?

What's wrong with the op?

[Electric Monk]

35. Anyone can read Safe Haven Groups, and if a majority of a jury finds a post offensive, it's hid

Safe Havens such as AA or GCRA mean only people who agree with the SOP can post there. If you post offensive callouts of individuals, you take your chances with a jury. If someone posts something contrary to the group SOP, they can be blocked by a host from ever posting there again.

There are times I would like the GCRA blocked list to prevent those gunthusiasts who've been blocked from even reading there too, but that's not how it works. I get a big laugh when I get an SOP alert from some gunthusiast asshole, because it's totally not their business, which is why they were blocked in the first place. They try and "reply" anyway by sending SOP alerts. There have been posts hidden in GCRA that weren't contrary to the SOP at all, but some gunthusiast delicate flower alerted and a majority of the jury happened to agree.

[bravenak]

40. We know the rules.

America has all white juries and people tell blacks to 'trust the legal system'. Kinda hard when you can never get a jury of your peers ahd they never get a jury of your peers either. So funny when people go on about rules that apply differently to different people based on physical attributes.

[Electric Monk]

44. So take it up with the admins if you'd like them changed. I'd agree with you, in fact.

see my edit above about GCRA.

[bravenak]

46. I think we need to discuss it among ourselves first.

[Electric Monk]

48. So bring back the Meta forum first, lol. I think stuff like this is why admins got rid of it.

DU is not a democracy, btw.

[bravenak]

50. The entire site is meta right now, lol. Look around! Too much meta, so I think we should be able to

Meta too a little bit.

[JustAnotherGen]

51. But - it wasn't an offensive call out.

That's why as a Group Host -

I tacked it to the top of the group.

It might be hidden but that thread STANDS! Here's the thing - you can't hide on the thumb tack itself. So there's pretty much nothing anyone can do about it.

Oh and what - two weeks ago? A blocked member SOP alerted on a thread. I'm guessing he didn't like the content of that one either. I didn't give his name in the group but I dragged him for it. I will own that,

Good, bad, indifferent - DUers have to accept that we aren't all friends and we don't all like each other.


WillyT is simply not liked or respected by some around here - and it's due to his words. Not becuase of WHO he is but the beliefs he shared. His words are why that thread keeps getting linked to. And note - the CONTENT of his op was not deemed offensive.

If it is NOT offensive - then his supporters should be PROUD of it being linked to. They agree with everything that was written and went down on that thread . . . I would think they woud want it to never die and wouldn't look at it as a call out.

[Electric Monk]

53. Obviously a jury disagreed with your opinion. I've had posts hidden that I didn't think deserved it.

I don't know what else to add. Welcome to DU?

[JustAnotherGen]

55. Well as A Group Host

Looks like I over ruled the jury.

What else can I add?

Sorry to harsh that jury's giddy.

Hey they can always show their love for WilkyT by going to the AfAm Group, clicking on that thread, and kicking up his post.

[GusBob]

63. It was alerted 6-1 leave. Nt

[randys1]

7. DU is juries, they determine EVERYTHING that happens here.

[Chitown Kev]

8. To an extent

This is less about calling out specific posts and more about a demonstration of how the dialectic of "public space/safe space works in American society.

It's one of the best examples that I can think of, in fact.

[JustAnotherGen]

11. It's the content of the first post you linked

I don't see why posting offensive content at DU that folks determined was NOToffensive - is offensive?

The jury spoke. The content wasn't offensive. So let it be shared far and wide.

[Chitown Kev]

12. But it was offensive in the AA space?

The jury also decided that...by a 7-0 vote

I don't get the logic at all.

it's not like the post that withstood the jury test was actually talking behind anyone's back.

[JustAnotherGen]

21. I know cray craaaaay!

Looney toons!

[Electric Monk]

47. The person being called out was unable to respond there. I suspect that's what the jury thought. nt

[Chitown Kev]

56. Why was he unable to respond?

Because at some point in the past, he went into someone else's "home" and took advantage of their hospitality and acted like an ass?

[Electric Monk]

57. If not already blocked there, She would have certainly been blocked for replying to the callout.

I think I'm done with this thread, as I don't have anything else to add and I have other things to do. I'll read it tomorrow, maybe.

[JustAnotherGen]

58. Not true - take it back

WillyT is not blocked.

And has not been blocked.

Unless WillyT comes into the group and is disrespectful - wont be blocked.

As a matter of fact - I believe we are the only group that has threads where we discuss the m & p for blocks, give warnings, and as people to leave and not come back.

WillyT is not blocked and wasn't when that occurred.

[Electric Monk]

61. Then ask WillyT. But, AA honestly wouldn't block her? Really? The hate is palpable. nt

[JustAnotherGen]

62. You are talking to a host

It's all there.

You are a host - you know how it works.

Click on About This Group. 42 people blocked he/she isn't one.


We also are transparent - so when we block someone we will discuss (the hosts) right on the thread. If you are blocked you get the specific reason why.

She is still free to Post there - she just can't come in there making posts that assume we are all nappy headed doddering fool welfare queens and rap stars . . When actually some of the most affluent, well traveled, well educated and life experience holding among DU - reside in the AfAm Group.


On a side note - I never cease to be amazed at the HBCU overlaps among our parents, grandparents, and great grandparents. It's also the only place I can write - We were Republicans once - and everyone knows precisely what I mean.

[JustAnotherGen]

59. The jury thought wrong n/t

[JustAnotherGen]

9. IBTL

I remain proud of tacking that thread at the top of the Group.

I did it and I would do it again.

They don't realize they alienate us / have alienated us. Their alienating behavior really makes one shut down.they should try to be more polite and considerate and careful.

[bravenak]

13. I hated that op.

You know how I feel about this.

[Chitown Kev]

16. Yeah

But we're rich privileged black brats (or something) for wanting a safe space...I guess I need to take a graduate level logic course or something, because I totally don't see the logic behind it...unless the dynamics of racism and white supremacy are taken into consideration.

[bravenak]

19. Ahh! Yes. I forgot I was wealthy.

Look at how we oppress them with our wanting a place where they cannot dominate the convo by the sheer force of their numbers.

[JustAnotherGen]

22. At least he told us

His true beliefs so we can dismiss accordingly.

Unless someone at DU is going to come to my home, hold a gun to my head, and force me to read his posts -

Not gonna do it.

They have no powers. They think they do but they don't.

And I don't have respect for many online personas here. And that's my truth and I'm sticking to it!

[bravenak]

26. I like when folks show me who they are.

Somebody very wise to me to believe them. I do now. Thank you number23!!

Now as I read them between classes, I laugh at how mighty they try to sound. Lol! My goodness.

[JustAnotherGen]

30. When I was a singleton

Thats how my friends and I described men. Drop his ass because he has shown you who he is. Believe him!

[bravenak]

33. Me too!!!

I was quick to fly out of state and break up. I got caught once because I lied and said I was moving but only took a vacay and he was moping around my house. Then I told him he was really trippin. Do not need any more stalkers... That was the all time worst thing about being single. The ones who wouldn't get the hell away from me.

[JustAnotherGen]

39. True Story It's A Game Of Sixes

Six seconds

Six minutes

Six days

Six weeks

Six months

The Gio wouldn't go away when I broke up with him at the six month point and that's why I married him. It's not because I wanted to - I felt like I had to. Because that's what I did!

It's the ones at the six seconds, minutes, and days you gotta worry about!

[bravenak]

43. For real. I swear the shorter the time the more dangerous they are.

One was six weeks and he was just- everywhere I went after I left him alone. This one just never left at all. Still here too. Just like Gio, SMART.

[Chitown Kev]

45. LOL

That was the all time worst thing about being single. The ones who wouldn't get the hell away from me.

They're not as bad as the ones who do get away from you, you mope and then move on, and THEN the motherfucker comes back, lol

[bravenak]

49. I hate when they come back after I'm happy.

I be like, whatchoo want?!? I done changed my haircolor, dropped back to 130 and now you come sniffing around? Nope! I like me too much to do that thing twice. I be all butthurt after things end, even though I always do the ending. Shoulda acted right in the first place.

[JustAnotherGen]

60. They always come back

That said - I had a stalker for TEN years. He killed himself in July 2014 and that was the end. All I did was say hello to him at an Irish bar.

[randys1]

27. Could there be a better example of how this "safe space" issue defines DU and America

than this thread?

[JustAnotherGen]

31. Nope!

[geek tragedy]

15. there's some serious alert-stalking of the AA forum going on nt

[WillyT]

20. And You've Been Kicking That Thread For The Last Month...

Is THIS a call out thread ???

[Chitown Kev]

25. Not really, lol

It is a great example, though, of how these various dynamics of privilege and public spaces and safe spaces can and do work in real life though (since the desire of "safe spaces" by minorities is seen as minorities not wanting to live in "real life&quot .

I cited another extreme example of the very same dynamic in this thread...

[bravenak]

28. You should delete it and figure out why it is offensive by reading the responses by the black

DUers who explained how offensive it was on thread. If people ever cared enough to find out why they are offending they might stop doing it. Once humans reach a certain age, they learn right from wrong and try not to hurt others, especially those already oppressed. Some find things like that to be a slap in the face, as they usually regard those on the right as having that viewpoint, so when it comes from the left? Punch in the gut and a major turn off. I use threads that blacks might find offensive as a method of keeping them on Team Hillary or turning wavering voters from the other side. It is like magic!! Some turn to O'Malley and that's good for me too. I'll take either one of the two.

[Agnosticsherbet]

29. I've noticed that. I think it was always true, but the primary has made it worse.

I think part of it is extreme partisanship. I've seen people complain that a Clinton supporter can say anything and it's OK, while a supporter for Sanders will get slammed for nothing.
I have seen the same argument from the other side, that a Clinton supporter will be slammed and a Sanders supporter can get away with anything.

I have come to realize that there are no safe places, none.
The dullest words can be a knife in the back.

[guillaumeb]

32. Should there be a safe space for the crude racism of the first example?

And if anyone here so believes, please explain why.

The first example cited in the post simply repeated many of the racist tropes that the GOP uses, albeit in slightly less offensive language. Such crude characterization and stereotyping should be hidden.

[bravenak]

34. I agree. It never should have been posted.

[Chitown Kev]

37. Sure.

I would only say that there should also be a "safe space" for the second OP...since it does little more than link the original OP in a "safer space"

[guillaumeb]

42. The original post basically said:

welfare=black issue. It was implied rather than stated as crudely as Newt Gingrich would say, but the implication that family assistance is mainly or exclusively an issue of importance to non-whites was there.

My view.

[Chitown Kev]

54. To clarify...I agree with you about the offensivenness

of that post.

I'm simply using it to illustrate something else.

[Kalidurga]

36. There is a certain element that takes that "safe" place designation as a challenge.

I have seen that with feminist "safe" place groups.

[Chitown Kev]

41. Yep.

The same with LGBT "safe space" as well.

http://jezebel.com/5913521/from-chicago-to-la-bachelorette-parties-are-getting-banned-from-gay-bars

Now, in one sense, since we now have marriage equality, this isn't quite the issue that was. But a lot of gay men were also complaining about drunk women groping them in gay bars and sometimes even using epithets when their proposition was refused.

[Kalidurga]

52. Yep

liquored-up bridal parties were basically "flaunting" their ability to get married.

Crickey that is rude. And some people are offended that the gay men are speaking out against being harassed.