Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
7 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Pres. Hollande: 30,000 Syrian refugees to still be welcomed in France (Original Post) bigtree Nov 2015 OP
kick bigtree Nov 2015 #1
France Still Planning to Accept 30,000 Refugees, Hollande Says pampango Nov 2015 #2
"Hit the pause button" "Muscular young men" "It's a real concern we should acknowledge" alcibiades_mystery Nov 2015 #3
Haha. .... good summary. n/t prayin4rain Nov 2015 #4
can you point me to the truth about the Tsarnaev brothers? bigtree Nov 2015 #5
The refutations of both claims (Tsarnaevs and Abdulazeez) are easy enough alcibiades_mystery Nov 2015 #6
that's a very good take. Easily understood and much appreciated bigtree Nov 2015 #7

pampango

(24,692 posts)
2. France Still Planning to Accept 30,000 Refugees, Hollande Says
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 09:24 AM
Nov 2015

France will keep its promise to take in 30,000 refugees over the next two years, President François Hollande said on Wednesday. But he said they would be checked thoroughly to make sure they do not pose a threat.

“Our country has the duty to respect this commitment,” Mr. Hollande said, noting that those fleeing areas of Syria and Iraq controlled by the Islamic State were being “tormented” by the “very same people who are attacking us today.”

Speaking at a meeting of the country’s mayors on Wednesday, Mr. Hollande said that France would “remain a country of freedoms.”

Speaking in Manila on Wednesday, President Obama cautioned against inflating fears of migrants and criticized Republicans for “political posturing” on the admission of Syrian refugees into the United States. ... “We are not well served when, in response to a terrorist attack, we descend into fear and panic,” he said. “We don’t make good decisions if it’s based on hysteria or an exaggeration of risks.”

http://www.nytimes.com/live/paris-attacks-live-updates/france-still-planning-to-accept-30000-refugees-hollande-says/

Good for France. The National Front will not be happy about this.

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
3. "Hit the pause button" "Muscular young men" "It's a real concern we should acknowledge"
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 09:25 AM
Nov 2015

"Don't mock people who are concerned" "Did you know Tsarnaev were refugees?" (completely false) "Did you know the Chatanooga shooter was a refugee?" (Also false) "Previous generations of immigrants were never thought to be politically violent" (Are you fucking kidding me????) "They're not vetted at all." "They're vetted by too many agencies." "Why don't we house homeless veterans first? Huh?" (Oh, *this* is the occasion to get you moving on *that*???)

MUSCULAR YOUNG MEN. MUSCLES. MUSCULAR. MUSCULAR YOUNG MILITARY AGE MEN IN THE CAMPS WITH MUSCLES. GLISTENING BRONZE MUSCLES ON THE YOUNG MUSCLED MEN.


The state of American discourse...

bigtree

(85,998 posts)
5. can you point me to the truth about the Tsarnaev brothers?
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 09:40 AM
Nov 2015

...I got hit with that yesterday. Chattanooga too, please.

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
6. The refutations of both claims (Tsarnaevs and Abdulazeez) are easy enough
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 10:55 AM
Nov 2015

Those claiming that the Tsarnaev brothers and Abdulazeez (the Chattanooga shooter) were "refugees" are 1) technically incorrect and 2) providing irrelevant cases even if they weren't incorrect, which they are.

1) Technically Incorrect - Neither the Tsarnaevs nor Abdulazeez entered the US through refugee resettlement. Those claiming they did are using a vague, blanket sense of "somebody fleeing conflict" or something like that, rather than the real legal category. Let's be clear: refugee is a clear and distinct legal category, not a general catch-all. In the case of the Tsarnaevs, their parents entered the US on a tourist visa, then applied for asylum. In the case of Abdulazeez, his parents entered the US through regular immigration lottery: they were not resettled as refugees after the first Gulf War. Why do these legal categories matter? Because they affect the level of vetting received by the applicant. Neither the Tsarnaevs nor Abdulazeez were introduced to the US under the careful refugee resettlement protocols of the time, much less under the extremely stringent resettlement protocols applied to Syrian refugees today. But, ultimately, being technically false is sufficient. None of them were "refugees" under any legal definition. That's enough to be the end of the story, but...

2) Irrelevant - The younger Tsanaev entered the US with his parents in 2002. He was six years old. Tamerlan Tsarnaev arrived in the US through a derivative asylum process in 2004 (he was 18). Mohammed Abdulazeez entered the US in 1996. He was also six years old. Let's set aside Tamerlan Tsarnaev for the moment and focus on the other two, both six years old at the time of their arrival.

The claim of those opposing refugee resettlement from Syria is that actual, current DAESH members will infiltrate the refugee population and get into the US that way. Surely, neither Dzhokar Tsarnaev nor Mohammed Abdulazeez were sleeper cell terrorists when they entered the country at age SIX, right? They were radicalized long after that. While the case is harder for Tamerlan on age alone, it's well documented that he was not radicalized until later. He was not a terrorist infiltrator when he arrived. So, even if they had refugee status (which they did not), they aren't cases of terrorist infiltration through a refugee resettlement anyway, since they weren't terrorists when they were resettled.

OH, I know what's coming: they were potential terrorists (as six year olds), as will be all the three year olds, five year olds, eight year olds, and fifty year olds we might resettle. Fair enough. But in that case, we should not let anyone resettle here ever under any circumstances, if we're basing it on some future potential to be radicalized, even for small children.

Opponents of Syrian refugee resettlement can't have it ALL ways: anyone can be a refugee so long as we ignore actual legal status and designation as a refugee, and anyone can be a potential terrorist, even small children. If those are the arguments against refugee resettlement, then the case is irrational and panicky, which, of course, it is.

bigtree

(85,998 posts)
7. that's a very good take. Easily understood and much appreciated
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 01:20 PM
Nov 2015

...easily understood and much appreciated

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Pres. Hollande: 30,000 Sy...