About 20 minutes out from Paris now. Despite what we were told to expect:

[DFW]

In Köln boarding the Thalys--no cops, no paramilitary, no nothing. Just another normal day at the train station.

In Brussels, the third (and last) stop on the way to Paris, and where usually there are armed security personnel on the track where the Thalys leaves for Paris--again, nobody. Just a few normal passengers boarding, and a few getting off. Maybe they had people down in the Zuidstation checking people before they were allowed up to the track itself, we can't see that from the train platform. No conspicuous security people on the train, either. It's more lightly booked than a usual Monday morning, so maybe some people who were going decided to back out, but nothing out of the ordinary so far.

I'll report again when we are in town.

[Fred Sanders]

1. France does not fear terrorists and will not cower, a negative emotion only Americans seem to enjoy

with so much enthusiasm.

France does not have a controlled media that licks the boots of corporations.

Life will carry on and life will be enjoyed without the fear the terrorists want most of all...."terror" is right there in their name, after all.

France will not give any terrorist what they want.

[patsimp]

4. Protecting yourself is not cowering

[peacebird]

6. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither"

Benjamin Franklin.

I would say we have given away far too much of our essential liberty with the Patriot Act and the government spying on every citizens phone records and online lives.

[DFW]

11. The French government listens to everyone. No secret here. All are "sur écoute."

Their trouble is that, just like the East German regime, if you listen to everyone, you will never have the personnel to evaluate every call, not that the people who organized Friday the 13th communicated their intentions overtly in phone calls to begin with.

[Jesus Malverde]

21. Today most calls are listened to by computers.

They're quite good, analysts listen to hot targets, politicians, the media, etc.

https://theintercept.com/2015/05/05/nsa-speech-recognition-snowden-searchable-text/

[Laura PourMeADrink]

28. They were saying yesterday that terrorists are communicating via online gaming

where you can also chat on the side. They chose war-like games where it would be a normal discussion to say you were killing, shooting, bombing..

So listening to traditional phone calls and texts are probably mostly a waste of time.

[Jesus Malverde]

31. Anything that goes over the Internet

Including this thread gets scanned.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

41. yes, but surely they don't investigate every one of the thousands and thousands of

people playing video war games.

Just like they were saying yesterday - prior to massacre, there were 100 potential problem people in Paris - there was no way they had the manpower to follow them around.

[Jesus Malverde]

44. Why follow people when each of us carries a beacon in our pocket.

Our phones.

[patsimp]

17. We can quote whatever we want - i don't want innocent people getting killed

and something needs to be done.

911
the Boston marathon
Mumbai
Spain
Canada
France - twice this year

[Jesus Malverde]

22. Don't forget the massive casualties in Turkey and Lebanon...nt

[patsimp]

39. Agreed. And Saudi Arabia.

[sabrina 1]

24. Yes cowering is a good word for the US's reaction to these tragedies. So in France things are

going along as normal. Here in NY we are told there are 100 extra police in the city. Why, it happened in France, not here.

And maybe if we stopped killing people in every country we land in, we wouldn't need to be so fearful.

Frankly I'm more afraid of the US Police than I am of terrorists.

THEY have killed over 800 Americans so far this year. Isis? Zero!

[Fred Sanders]

36. 100 gun deaths a day in America, year after year....ISIS is 0 for 5 years. Fear of ISIS is insane.

[Surya Gayatri]

19. France will NEVER stop flipping the fickle finger of fate at all manner

of tyrants. They are the world experts on telling would-be authority figures to get fucked in imaginative ways.

Using a gesture known as the "bras d'honneur" or 'arm of honor', they tell all authoritarians to "allez tous vous faire foutre", including their own government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bras_d'honneur

[bklyncowgirl]

33. People from New York and Boston would beg to differ with you on that "cowering" thing

These are the cities in the U.S. that were actually attacked by terrorists. I have not noticed any cowering. New Yorkers rebuilt after 9/11. Bostonians took back their city after the marathon attack. You may see more cops during public gatherings--hey we're not stupid--and for a few years a low flying plane over New York City could trigger a twinge of fear, call it PSD, but, no, we are not cowering.

I do not know what would happen if there was a terrorist attack in, say, Texas or California. I hope we never find out but, but let' not paint the entire country with one broad contemptuous brush.

[Fred Sanders]

35. Giving ISIS exactly what they want? Fear? Only in fear-drenched by mass media America!

Wake up and stop handing the terrorists the fear panic and paranoia that was the purposes of this all....do you see Lebanon and Turkey crying out for massive revenge and turning into police states with cowering masses of people while still pretending to be the land of the free??

No, the opposite...calling for more peace, refusing to cower, refusing to give in to the Terror and Fear the terrorists want most of all and you argue is the best response(?).

What is wrong with America is the huge militsry at the beck and call has propagandized the mass media unto hair trigger war as the solution to all things...if not used tools grow rusty and may not be replaced and even budgets reduced.

if you personally want you can surrender, your choice to cave and live in fear...I am with Obama.

[bklyncowgirl]

40. Excuse me, Fred Sanders did you actually read my post?

I wrote that painting Americans with a broad brush as quivering cowards was wrong in the face of the reactions of the two cities in the U.S. that have actually experienced terrorists attacks.

You did not respond to that. You did not say anything about New York and Boston. Instead you slammed me for giving into fear. What the heck are you talking about?

Oh yes, and I too am with Obama. That is why I want him to get this right. The stakes are too high. If there is a terrorist attack in this country, if our president cannot quell the understandable fear that people have, if he does not present a strong comprehensible and ultimately successful response then I can pretty much guarantee you that the next president will be a Republican and the conservative takeover of this country will be complete.

That, my friend, is my greatest fear.

[BlueJazz]

2. What Fred Sanders said.

[liberal N proud]

3. Enjoy Paris

We cannot let fear prevent us from living.

[patsimp]

5. No bullets and bombs do that.

[ret5hd]

7. Hey Pat!!! Good to see ya' getting around!

Neither here nor there:

simp/simp/
noun
a silly or foolish person.

[patsimp]

15. so clever

ret

adjective

ret dumb enabler

[DFW]

12. I'm usually here three times a month.

Pretty much routine for me by now.

[liberal N proud]

18. Enjoy it for those of who have only been once or twice and dream of returning

[DFW]

20. Well, the weather sucks and I'm here for work

But I'll try to do that. I sometimes get news from friends who live in Hawaii and think the same thing.

For that matter, we have friends from the midwest in the USA who take their vacations in our house in Germany. We live next to a park with a 1000 year old castle, and are just 10 minutes from the Rhein. Our village has old architecture and open air farmers markets three times a week. They think it's a vacation spot. We think it's the place where we sleep and need to take out the garbage before the house starts to stink. One person's routine is another's dream vacation.

[liberal N proud]

32. Yes, you live in a vacation spot. We loved rural Switzerland

I used to NE Switzerland for work.

I grew up in Iowa and there was nothing like Switzerland anywhere around there. I recall my first trip, just standing there taking in the architecture, and the culture. Yes, I look like a tourist!

[DFW]

34. We don't exactly think of it as a vacation spot

After all, everyone in the neighborhood gets up and goes to work like everywhere else.

But we DO very much appreciate that we can leave the house and be in an immense park/woods within 2 minutes and walk around to our hearts' content, and the castle grounds, open to the public, are always beautiful no matter what time of year. The big plus is that being in a part of Europe that has been settled for over a thousand years, traditions like the open air market three times a week are so well set, that it is a given that there are woods and public places, and yet the center of town, doctors, a hospital, restaurants, etc. all within walking distance, and an intercontinental airport 20 minutes away by taxi. Best yet---starting next April there will finally be nonstop flights from Düsseldorf to Dallas!!!!!!

[BlueMTexpat]

8. Normal day in the Geneva area,

although I did see patrolmen at Cornavin station.

That is not unusual, however. They were simply more in evidence.

The weather is also exceptionally beautiful here today, btw.

Reports from the weekend say that there were minimum 1.5 hour delays at border crossings with France. The RW parties here want all the Swiss borders closed - forever would be too soon for reopening, in their opinion.

But the Federal Council hasn't taken such draconian steps. Instead, it has increased border presence and patrols and is providing extra surveillance for the French Embassy and other French diplomatic facilities here. Each canton has also stepped up police patrols.

Geneva is about a three-hour train ride from Paris.

And life goes on.

[DFW]

13. That it does.

I wonder what these fanatics thought they would accomplish? That 50 million people in France would all roll over and play dead because of this?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

26. Thanks for sharing your experiences over there DFW ! It has struck

me that Europeans are so much more intellectual about how to deal with terrorists. Are there people there who think like the right does here? who don't care about understanding a more intelligent way to handle than bombing them into oblivion?

[DFW]

29. It's more nuanced than that

Obviously, EVERYone would LIKE to bomb those responsible into oblivion. That's a normal reaction. I think the main difference here is that the Europeans realize that those responsible (and still alive) are not idiots and were well prepared for the reaction of the victim country. They made sure well before the event that they would be out of reach and well hidden by the time their brainwashed minions carried out their bidding. The French would have known that Osama Bin Laden was already in hiding by the time anyone realized he was behind the 9/11 attacks, whereas Cheneybush seemed to neither know nor care.

Just this morning, an Arab restaurant about 100 meters from where I was staying, was raided, closed, and the personnel carted off because the French had traced via AirB&B that the renting of one of the shelters of the attackers had come from there. If you hadn't been in the immediate area, you wouldn't even have known it had happened. It may not get Hollande re-elected, but it makes a lot more sense than invading Syria in the hope of catching someone who already knew last week that he would be a wanted man, and surely took off well before it all went down.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

42. +1 Sounds just like the impression I have of European law enforcement - smart

and quick

So much of this whole thing is a police/investigatory effort.

But, people eventually relax. When I lived in DC shortly after 9-11, there were guards checking my trunk before entering a parking deck. Cabs from airport were stopped and trunks searched.

But...just not enough manpower/money to keep that up. So basically, we give up and just play the odds.

Seems the best way would be to infiltrate - just too much info out there to effectively search and act upon.

[merrily]

9. Remember, you're encapsulated.

[DFW]

14. I haven't forgotten!

[MANative]

10. By contrast, on the metro north train from Westchester cty, New York...

There was a cop with an automatic weapon at the station, and three more walking through the train. I work in Times square. Can't wait to see how fortified that will be today.

[DFW]

16. Well we've been in town for over 3 hours.

Normal activity looks to be somewhere between a quarter and a third of normal. Merchants and restaurants are definitely hurting, and traffic is so light, a commuter could actually make it to his job and back without cursing once. A colleague told me that yesterday, he visited his mom in one part of town, and drove back to his apartment in another part of town. He said that even on a Sunday, it usually took him 40 minutes to drive across town. He said he made it in under ten.

My wife and I ate lunch at one of my favorite places, and got a table immediately (almost impossible at 1 PM). The owners, all Arabs, by the way, recognized me, and sat us right away with big smiles (maybe they just liked my wife, who knows?). I come to this place often enough when I'm in Paris, so they know me anyway, but it's rare that I get to sit down. Usually, it's take-out and eat at the office.

The streets are not deserted, but it's less than 50% of normal--way less. The people you talk to are determined not to let this event bring them down, but they all say they are aware they could be next, and it does weigh on their minds.

Since France already has a heavy surveillance of its citizens, they can't very well enact anything like a "Patriot Act" that would institute more controls than are already in place. So don't count on hearing anything like that. I'm sure there will be more air strikes on IS leaders if they can find them. I'm sure France already knew where many of them hung out, just didn't want to give away that they knew. Hollande obviously decided that he didn't care any more, and cashed in a few chips for a big PR coup. He had better hope he knocked out a bunch of their leadership, because if he didn't, you can bet the next attack on France is already in the planning stages.

Anyway--the bottom line is: subdued but defiant. They WILL get through this.

[Jesus Malverde]

23. Interesting thread, thanks...nt

[BlueMTexpat]

25. Thanks for your on-the-spot

reporting.

My heart is heavy for all victims of such senseless actions.

[DFW]

27. French TV was full of round-table commentary last night

There were the usual useless philosophers, but there was one very insightful comment from a French Arab jazz musician, who said that the worst thing the terrorists were doing was taking happiness from the young people who survived. People having a good time at a concert who would maybe never be able to enjoy one again. That stuck a deeper chord with me (and, apparently the audience) than all the talking heads making other observations. The musician said it was the one thing that could not be allowed to happen to the nation. To target young people having a good time at a popular concert, how ugly can you get?

This morning, when I was taking my wife to the train station at 7 AM, the Métro, usually clogged with people going to work, was nearly empty. Apparently, many of the big companies gave their employees a few days off, and it showed. The normal rush hour traffic had completely evaporated, and Paris is, after all, a city of somewhere between 6 and 10 million people, depending on how much of the outlying suburbs you count in the population.

But again, where we expected the train station to look like an army camp, there was no overt sign of anything out of the ordinary. Contrast this with the report of another Parisian friend who lives near a hospital near the Eiffel tower. He said around 10 PM Friday night through to 4 AM, there were nonstop sirens, the street closed off to all but police cars and ambulances bringing in wounded. Saturday, by contrast, he said the whole city was deserted, looked like a ghost town. Only yesterday, when my wife and I arrived, were people going back to work, and even then just a fraction of what was normal. Now, at half past noon, I am in the IIième, and there is maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of the traffic, both auto and pedestrian, that one usually sees at this hour. It's a city trying to recover, but still in shock.

[BlueMTexpat]

30. That certainly was an insightful comment.

And it is indeed tragic, as you said.

To target young people having a good time at a popular concert, how ugly can you get?

I love Paris. It is a city that has experienced much tragedy, but has always rebounded. I hope that things will be the same this time.

This is horrible collateral damage, just as it was in Lebanon, in Turkey, and in too many other areas around the world where innocents are still paying for actions of militant others.

[Fred Sanders]

37. Paris was was most recently occupied by demons for several years....they will not only recover

from this, they will thrive.

Why does the corporate mass media in America, cheered on as always by extremist RW politicians and extremist hate-speech (freely and widely permitted and broadcast in America) instantly push the Fear and Panic button every time?

Is the military getting rusty and in danger of having it's massive budget slashed?

There's an app for that!

Fear.

[BlueMTexpat]

38. One can only shake one's head

at the idiocy expressed by our RW GOPer pols and their hate media lackeys.

They do not have the slightest idea of how idiotic they sound and how, even in these moments of tragedy, people everywhere are laughing at them. Or shaking their heads at their idiocy.

But anyone with any sense is also horrified at how self-deluded they are to think that any one of the GOPers could possibly lead the US in any positive manner whatsoever.

God help us all!

[Fred Sanders]

43. I disagree. The problem also all the corporate mass media is also NOT laughing at the GOP insanity

and corporate HQ's of all the major networks sent, at great expense, their best known and "trusted" TV front person corporate lackey/monkey employed mouthpieces to Turkey to hound Presient Obama with childish war hawk questions that were completely tone deaf as to the responses.

What a mess freedom of speech has become in America! The mass media propaganda control has to go first to make any real progress.