Obama to Mizzou Students: Protest But Don’t Shout Down Speech You Disagree With

[totodeinhere]

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/obama-to-mizzou-students-protest-but-dont-shout-down-speech-you-disagree-with/

President Obama supports the University of Missouri protesters vocalizing their problems with how the campus is being run, but said they shouldn’t be muzzling or shouting down speech they disagree with.

ABC released another video from the president’s interview with George Stephanopoulos today, and in it Obama reacted to the Mizzou protests. He said it’s “entirely appropriate for students in a thoughtful, peaceful way to protest,” but said being an activist “involves hearing the other side.”

Stephanopoulos brought up the idea of “militant political correctness,” which Obama completely rejected as a helpful tactic for protesters.

He said it’s very important for protesters to “be able to listen” because if you feel threatened by dissenting ideas, that’s a “recipe for dogmatism and I think you’re not gonna be as effective.”

Good advice from President Obama. As well as telling their side of the story, the college protesters need to listen to what others have to say. In fact, listening should be a two-way street. All sides need to listen to each other.

[Tipperary]

1. I agree with President Obama.

[TBF]

2. Calls for civility are always the first defense of the status quo -

I don't know how many times I have to say this.

See: Rights of Protesters by the ACLU: https://www.aclu.org/issues/free-speech/rights-protesters

I vehemently disagree with POTUS framing how folks must politely protest. Begging for scraps from the owners has NEVER worked.

[exboyfil]

4. Is it appropriate to block the vehicle

of the campus President? Is so is it appropriate to block someone from accessing an abortion clinic for example or stopping a LGBT float in a parade?

[TBF]

6. I'm not going to support the first amendment only when you approve. nt

[melman]

25. Apparently

you don't support it at all.

[TBF]

31. What? Freedom to speak is not just for white folks. nt

[TipTok]

32. They have the right to speak...

... and they've chosen to do it in an ineffective manner and the actual grown ups are using their right to speak to respond.

The students perceived grievances don't insulate them from well deserved criticism or judgement.

Folks like this can stay in academia studying celebrity gender game theory or float around the social justice movement. The rest of the world has work to do and no time for temper tantrums.

[TBF]

33. What I'm seeing is temper tantrums

by folks who don't like their authority questioned. Those uppity blacks - they need to protest in a way that is polite, refined, and doesn't offend others. Calls for civility by anyone - President Obama included - are in the interest of maintaining the status quo.

No actual acknowledgement in this thread that the First Amendment is still in effect and even in this Patriot Act age the exemptions to that right are still quite limited.

[TipTok]

34. Literally no one is stopping them from speaking...

It seems that the University has gone out of its way to enable their speech.

Certainly no one from the government is stopping, which is what the 1st Amendment refers to.

If anything, they have been the only party to try to shut down speech they don't like.

Everyone acknowledges their right to speak, they have yet to acknowledge that others have a right to respond.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

45. You need to take off your blinders

and read what is written instead of reading what you want to see.


"No actual acknowledgement in this thread that the First Amendment is still in effect "

Really? I've been saying that all along. You're the one that wants free speech for the protesters, but not for anyone that disagrees with them.

Why is that?

[TBF]

74. Speaking of only seeing what you want to see -

I have only argued for free speech. Not against it. You are doing that by wanting to shut up the protesters. As far as people "disagreeing" with them, those people may need to understand that white males aren't running everything now. I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

80. I'm sorry

Where did I say I wanted to shut up the protesters?

I'm for free speech for everyone, not just the people with whom I happen to agree. I guess that's the difference between you and me.

[Logical]

41. LOL, yes, blocking a car from moving is a 1st amendment issue. Read more about it! LOL nt

[loyalsister]

7. +1

I am sure that was the safe thing for POTUS to say. But, if he were to listen to students who are leading this and\or are on the ground, he would hear that they felt physically unsafe.

One of inciting incident was then white people tried to physically bully black protesters at the homecoming parade, Tim Wolfe's car bumped up against some of the protesters and white spectators cheered while he sat there and said nothing.

Later two people who threatened black people were arrested. Should we think only those who have been dumb enough to post on social media have bad intentions, or would it be wiser to err on the side of caution. Should the person who was called the n-word by a man driving a truck brandishing a confederate flag assume he's an isolated example?

It's interesting that people in a country that has citizens so afraid that they claim self defense with guns as an absolute right, demands that people who have been threatened trust unknown outsiders.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

13. Where in the link

does it say that one of the rights of protesters is to shut down the speech of those whom with they disagree?

[TBF]

20. When you are shutting them down you're doing the same thing

so answer your own question.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

22. You must have me confused with someone else

I've never said the student protesters should be shut down - they have every right to protest, and should do so.

But they don't have the right to shut down the speech of others, period.

[TBF]

24. They have the right to protest period. 1st amendment. nt

[SickOfTheOnePct]

26. And anyone that wants to counter what they're saying

or disagree with them in any way on any point as the right to, period. First Amendment.

Funny how you only want free speech for some, whereas I want it for all.

[TBF]

28. What? I don't think you understand what the first amendment says.

You don't have the "right" to the polite debate format you would like. Calls for civility again ...

There are exceptions to free speech as guaranteed by the first amendment, but they are very limited.

The decision says the First Amendment doesn’t protect false speech that is likely to cause immediate harm to others. It doesn’t say, “The government has plenty of ways to shut you up.”
In America, we have extraordinary latitude in saying what we believe without fear of repression, making the U.S. a model for other nations.
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/not-many-exceptions-to-free-speech-guarantee

[SickOfTheOnePct]

44. Again, you must have me confused with someone else

Not once have I called for a "polite debate format".

I'm not the one trying to shut down free speech - that would be the Mizzou protesters, trying to shut down speech that makes them uncomfortable or with which they disagree.

Whereas I'm for free speech for all, you appear to only be for free speech for the Mizzou protesters.

Why is that?

[TBF]

75. Again, I've only argued for free speech -

and given some info re notable (very limited) exceptions.

So far all I've gotten is personal insults from you and your comrade who are replying to all my posts.

Why is that?

[NobodyHere]

3. +1 Mr President

[LittleBlue]

5. The tide has turned

Crybullies have alienated their natural supporters with this safe space crap.

[loyalsister]

8. This is a confirmation bias story

People who would deflect the complaints of the protesters with a free speech argument that places the desires of the media which is controlled by white people above them were never in a position to be allies in the first place.

[romanic]

10. blah blah blah

The POTUS doesn't agree with your dogma or the dogma of the crybully activists who will never change anything because they can't understand the logic of debating ideas that don't agree with their cause.

[Chitown Kev]

12. To call people that ARE marginalized traditionally

for their viewpoints and lives "crybullies" is missing the point and sounds might white of you, to be honest...and I agree with POTUS on this but not for the same reason that you do, obviously.

[romanic]

14. Couple things.

1. I'm not white.

2. It's my opinion. I'll call the so-called student "activists" whatever the hell I want.

[Chitown Kev]

18. You can

Whether or not I disagree with you and whether or not I state that disagreement and/or the reasons thereof is within my free-speech rights as well.

[AngryAmish]

58. Sigh, no one is restricting your free speech rights.

Is a state trooper arresting you? No. But speech has consequences. And you are getting those hard and fast.

[Chitown Kev]

84. I never said that you were restricting my free speech rights

What the hell are you talking about?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

17. Protesting their traditional marginization

and trying to change the status quo is admirable; that's not what makes them crybullies.

What makes them crybullies is when, in the process of protesting for their rights, they whine and complain and seek to shut down the viewpoint of others.

I think crybullies describes them perfectly.

[TBF]

15. This country was founded by "crybully activists" -

read your history books, comrade.

Boston Tea Party - first protest.

The calls for fascism on this board are quite enlightening.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

19. Interesting

I think it borders on fascism to try to keep the press away from a public demonstration on public property.

I think it borders on fascism to tell people to call the police if they hear "hateful" or "hurtful" speech.

What do you think?

[romanic]

21. "Calls for fascism"

You mean the calls by students to ban free speech, to silence people who don't agree with them, to push around other students infringing on their "safe space"?

Believe me, I want black and other minority students to feel safe on campus too. But stomping your feet and making a list of unrealistic demands doesn't work in the real world, and it sure as hell isn't going to work on campus in fighting racism either.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

23. My point exactly n/t

[TBF]

29. " I want black and other minority students to feel safe on campus too"

Particularly if they behave exactly as you wish. How privileged of you.

[romanic]

36. The p-word ain't gonna work with me.

And neither is twisting my words. FYI I was a biracial college student too and I dealt with racists shit from time to time myself. However I realized that no matter what I did, there would always be a racist asshole on or off campus to call me whatever they want. I choose to focus on my education so I could become something better than the racists assholes that wanted to provoke me or bring me down to their level.

Besides it's not about behavior, it's about a long-term plan to create change. Protest is one thing, but the illogical safe spaces, fascist-like browbeating and unrealistic demands for resignations won't change jack squat in the long run. At the end of the day, change shouldn't compromise free speech and militant dogma shouldn't drive change either.

[TBF]

72. I don't care what "works" for you -

and I don't care if you're purple. I'm pointing out authoritarianism and lack of respect for free speech.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

46. You seem to think

that you can read people's minds and know what they're thinking.

You don't.

[TBF]

73. Either do you.

Seriously, how do I respond to that sort of silly personal attack?

[loyalsister]

16. I know some of them personally

and have been here to hear what is actually happening on the ground. Neither you nor POTUS has heard their perspective personally.

[LittleBlue]

27. No, this is about crybullies who desire to end free speech on campus

And like all such movements, they are doomed. Listen to Obama if you don't believe me.

[loyalsister]

66. This is exactly like all lives matter

"What about meeeee????" the majority white news media and viewers said.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

67. Do you believe in free speech or not?

It really is that simple.

[loyalsister]

68. Do you believe these students were threatened?

Does their well being matter or is your conception of free speech more important? That was what my original response was about.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

69. Absolutely

but we're not talking about threats, and you know that. We're talking about words that they don't like, or don't want to hear or that make them uncomfortable. We're talking about their attempt to keep the press out of public space.

We aren't talking about threats, but of course, you knew that already.

[loyalsister]

70. It's all about threats

The white dominated media has been extremely hostile to Blacks. Compare coverage of survivors vs. looters if you have doubts. This is like people trying to crash a funeral or something. It goes from tasteless to vulgar when people then decide to make this about them.

Safe spaces are meant to protect people from traditionally hostile forces – which, yes, the corporate, white-owned press has been – so they can grieve and organize and share experiences. This may not make much sense to Chait, but there is a logic and a historic continuity justifying it that isn’t just PC jihadis out of control. Indeed, the false urgency Chait suggests that there’s an “upsurge” of political correctness, is belied by the fact that Chait, himself, has been writing this same anti-PC screed since 2006 when it was also at unprecedented highs. The reason PC is nothing new is because there is, was, and, for the foreseeable future, will be a logical reason for black-controlled experiences skeptical of establishment narratives and language. If this offends or upsets Mr. Chait, well, this is precisely the point.

http://www.salon.com/2015/11/13/safe_spaces_arent_about_you_why_the_anti_p_c_crusaders_completely_miss_the_point_partner/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

[SickOfTheOnePct]

71. You still haven't answered my question

Do you support free speech or not?

It's either yes or no - it's really that simple.

[loyalsister]

76. I support the right of people to not be censored by their government

But I'm not a rigid fundamentalist who never sees gray area. I am a supporter of these students because I am an alum living in Columbia. I know them, I have had many conversations with them and they do not deserve to be maligned by an ugly alliance of conservatives and people who might once have been identified as allies.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

78. If you truly support the right of people to not be censored by their government

Then you should condemn their efforts to keep the press out of public spaces, and the call to have hateful or hurtful speech (not threats, just so you don't go that tired excuse) reported to the campus police.

[loyalsister]

81. So, the person called the n word

by a white guy in a truck with a confederate flag displayed shouldn't feel like there is some threat behind that word?

[Throd]

82. That doesn't trump free speech for other people.

It just does not.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

83. Yelling an ugly, hateful word is not in and of itself a threat

So I would say, no, there is not threat behind that word.

[Throd]

79. I support their right to protest and the right of others to challenge their ideas in public.

I have not seen a single poster on DU state that those students do not have the right to voice their views.

Myself (and others) are saying that they don't get to declare that an entire campus or common areas of a campus as a safety zone where their opinions can go unchallenged.

[LittleBlue]

77. No, that has nothing to do with it

How is "all lives matter" the same as opposing free speech zones and press restrictions?

Don't turn a worthy cause into an academic fascist movement.

[beam me up scottie]

35. "Crybullies" is a right wing term.

Whether or not you agree with the tactics of protesters you shouldn't be using right wing talking points on DU.

[LittleBlue]

37. No it isn't. More crybaby shaming bullshit

Sorry, no. No more bullshit shaming by association, no more safe space nonsense.

Your ideology is anti free speech and I reject it as ridiculous.

[beam me up scottie]

38. Yes it is, google the word and see what kind of people use it.

I reject bigotry in all its forms and the "anti-free speech" excuse is the refuge of bigots everywhere.

[LittleBlue]

39. Aww how cute. I will use this word every time, as often as I please

I'm not supposed to say a word because someone called it right wing. Nope. More crybully nonsense.

Tyrants everywhere love your anti free speech rationale. Fascist bullshit. I'm not interested. It's authoritarian crap repackaged. If you have a problem with my post, report it.

[beam me up scottie]

40. And people will dismiss your "argument" because of your right wing talking points.

You seem to have them all down pat.

[LittleBlue]

42. Thank God! Is that a promise? I hope so

I would rather avoid the crybully crowd, so thank fuck for that. I hope they judge me extremely harshly, it's a guarantee that I'm on the correct side of this.

I don't associate with those who mock First Amendment rights and attempt to shut down academic freedom.

[Throd]

48. Defending the 1st Amendment is a right wing talking point?

Or do you just label everything that challenges your thinking a "right wing talking point"? Sounds like you need a safe space.

[beam me up scottie]

49. Why use the same right wing terms as Breitbart and Fox news?

No one is a stronger supporter of the 1st amendment than I am, it is not necessary to use right wing talking points to support free speech.

Your strawman is bullshit.

[Throd]

50. If the shoe fits...

Is there any criticism of their double standards and tactics that you would not dismiss as RW talking points?

[beam me up scottie]

51. Not playing your game, calling black protesters "crybullies" is bigoted and unnecessary.

If you can't make your point without resorting to right wing talking points you probably don't have a point.

And if you do I won't listen to it, I get enough of this kind of rhetoric from the racists I work with.

[Throd]

52. I'll call the white ones that too.

I don't think the term is race-specific. I think the term is also applicable to many Christians on the right who whine about their "persecution".

[beam me up scottie]

55. They say the same thing about "thugs".

I don't have a problem with criticizing the protesters' tactics, I just don't think we need to use right wing talking points here to make our points.

Words do matter.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

56. Thugs aren't limited to a single race either

That's another term that if the shoe fits, I'll use the term, regardless of race, religion or ethnic background.

[beam me up scottie]

63. And that tells me all I need to know about you.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

65. Good, I'm glad that's settled n/t

[Throd]

60. Declaring words you don't like as verboten and banning their use kinda proves my point.

[beam me up scottie]

64. Another strawman, do you make those yourself?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

54. It's a very descriptive term

that fits perfectly. I don't care who came up with it or what their motive was, I'll continue to use it.

[beam me up scottie]

57. Frontpagemag, Breitbart and other rabid right wing sources appreciate it.

Just two of the headlines from the kind of people who use it:

Crymobs, Crybullying and the Left's Whiny War on Speech

Crybully Assaults on Free Speech: From Mizzou to Yale

I won't link to them because the websites are disgusting, but good job carrying water for the right on DU!

[SickOfTheOnePct]

59. I'm not the one who is reading the right wing sites

That would be you.

You're doing the same thing the students are doing - telling people what words they can and can't say based on how they make you feel. You're free to do so, of course, but you're wasting your time with me.

[beam me up scottie]

61. Bullshit, all I did was google the word and those sites came up.

You're doing the same thing the students are doing - telling people what words they can and can't say based on how they make you feel. You're free to do so, of course, but you're wasting your time with me.

Also bullshit, I'm just letting you know where those words originated, if you want to use them here, be my guest.

[LittleBlue]

53. Bingo. The most astonishing part is that DU was emphatically pro free speech

When the press were being cordoned off by Chimpy. But now we've been infiltrated by modern believers that the press and students must have free speech zones.

This is fascism repackaged for modern free speech deniers. They exist in every generation, and every time their ideology is defeated.

[Chitown Kev]

9. President Obama is a lawyer

so of course he would say this.

You don't shut down the opposition in a trial because they draw out facts and spin testimony in a way that is not favorable to you...you use your rhetorical skills in order "to spin" the evidence in your favor (and it might not be spin but the truth).

FTR, I do believe in safer spaces by not "safe spaces" as both sides bandy about them all too often.

[romanic]

11. K&R

I fully expect some of the activists to turn on Obama and call him all kinds of nasty names but oh well, Obama was once a college student himself who probably had many debates in school and dealt with just as much nastiness from racists and right-wingers himself. He knows what he's talking about.

[NaturalHigh]

30. I agree with the President on this.

Though it apparently pains some, the First Amendment is not only for speech that you like.

[Logical]

43. + 1000!! nt

[SickOfTheOnePct]

47. Agree 100%

I don't get what's so hard to understand...

[Teamster Jeff]

62. Now the Mizzou protesters are properly chastised by President Status Quo

What a self serving handful of bullshit.