NATO & the attacks in France

[Ms. Yertle]

I've been seeing a lot of stuff speculating that France could invoke Article 5, which states that an attack on a member nation is an attack on all.

http://www.ibtimes.com/paris-terror-attacks-france-could-invoke-nato-collective-defense-clause-2184963
The defense clause of NATO’s founding treaty stipulates that if invoked, each of the members will assist the party attacked. NATO’s military resources include more than 3 million troops under arms, 25,000 aircraft and 800 oceangoing warships, according to Foreign Policy. Economically, the alliance is also an intimidating force, representing more than 50 percent of global GDP.

This country clearly has no appetite for war. What happens if we politely decline? Would NATO fall apart? Is there a reason why we should care if it does?

(I know nothing about the source--it was just the first article that came up when I did a Google search, so my apologies if it's a RWNJ article.)

[BooScout]

1. What country attacked France?

How would they evoke this without an actual country attacking them?

[Ms. Yertle]

2. True--

--although (according to that article I linked) we invoked Article 5 after 9/11, so there is a precedent.

[BooScout]

3. That got us into this mess....

Ugh

[muriel_volestrangler]

4. Same way it was invoked following Sept 11

On September 12th, the North Atlantic Council met again in response to the appalling attacks perpetrated yesterday against the United States.

The Council agreed that if it is determined that this attack was directed from abroad against the United States, it shall be regarded as an action covered by Article 5 of the Washington Treaty, which states that an armed attack against one or more of the Allies in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all.

http://www.nato.int/docu/pr/2001/p01-124e.htm

[Lee-Lee]

8. Do you know what the first two letters in ISIS stand for?

That will answer your question.

You may not recognize that it's a country- but they have declared themselves a country, control territory, and have established governance in that territory.

[LittleBlue]

9. The caliphate attacked France

The Islamic State is a real state with borders and everything.

[Jarqui]

5. Here's article five

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm

Article 5
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security .

I don't know tons about this. But from reading the treaty, to use an extreme example, the US could say "we put a couple of AR15s in the mail for you" and argue under the treaty that they had "helped" France. I'm sure the US wouldn't insult France with a couple of AR15s - just making the point that they could go through the motions, not put boots on the ground and satisfy the treaty.

Would it fall apart? Who wouldn't want the US military in their corner of they get attacked - even if it's only sometimes?

I'm not sure what France and the others will do. Collectively, they've really been at war with these terrorists for quite some time (many years). Whether they invoke article 5 or not, they have to figure out collectively and individually what they need to do differently, if anything (I expect something will come of this), in response to this attack.

[Ms. Yertle]

6. What a mess

Let's hope that cooler heads will prevail, and it won't happen.

The idea that we could get drawn into this just makes me heartsick. Even a couple of AR15's could be the beginning of the infamous slippery slope.

[geek tragedy]

7. France is a NATO ally so we absolutely must assist.

We are already bombing Daesh so not sure what the concern is.

[Lee-Lee]

10. Yes, if they invoke Article 5 we must assist.

No way around it.

And if we don't assist to the degree the world sees as satisfactory, than our word as a nation on any treaty or agreement will be seen as worthless.

And if we don't live up to our obligation to NATO it would be a huge issue in the coming Presidnetial election as well.....