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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt's time to prosecute those responsible for the war in Iraq
Executive order or not, this must not go unpunished. If there is no way around the executive order, for instance using evidence discovered since it was written, then the executive order itself must be attacked to get past it. Why is an executive order allowed to use for illegal acts that break ever single piece of legislation, treaty, etc that addresses war? We have an obligation to our troops, their families, the Iraqi people, the troops in other countries, the U.N. and the world to prosecute these bastards.
I will not stop talking about this. I will continue to bring it up in every conversation I can. While campaigning for Bernie Sanders, while collecting signatures for the CAFreeAct, while standing on the corner shouting support for Planned Parenthood, I will make it part of the conversation.
We attacked, a first strike, against a country that did us no harm. Shock and Awe, bombing innocent people into oblivion. Children scarred, burned, mutilated, murdered by the United States of America. For what? Control of oil. For money.
Planned in the dark rooms of the Bush white house. Planned for well over a year to lie to the citizens of the country he fought dirty to run. Planned using classified emails and memos to foreign leaders to lie to their people, their citizens, their soldiers. Planned with malice. Planned with no emotion, no thought to the millions of innocent people they knew would suffer. Planned with not an iota of compassion for the hundreds of thousands they knew would die.
Planned to include the "collateral damage" of young men and women from the country they swore to serve and protect, men and women that wanted only to save our country from what they believed to be a threat. Our own children, wives, husbands, parents, murdered by the scum of the earth. Over 5000 of our own, sent to die by the warmongering, money hungry devil that is George W. Bush.
And the U.S. main stream media remains silent. The silence is deafening. The silence shouts out, "we're bought and paid for."
The last lines of the song, Johnny I Hardly Knew Ye, is what I pledge to do my best to make sure it will never happen here again.
"They're rolling out the guns again, but they'll not take my sons again. No they'll not take my sons again, Johnny I'm swearing to ye"
Not in my name.
Arrest, try and convict Bush, Cheney, Powell,Wolfowitz, Rice and anyone else that conspired for that wretched, illegal war.
#Bernie2016
Rochester
(838 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)I can't help but think that what happened in Paris wouldn't have happened if we had not attacked innocent people
The logic is simple. Our illegal war created more terrorists (people mad that we killed their grandmother) so we need more war to combat the terrorists. Rinse and repeat.
Cheney was an evil genius and we're still fighting his wars.
But why? The conclusion must be oil (profit). Why else?
We need to stop this in 2016 by making sure our candidates know we want peace.
I hope with all my heart but I have little faith. 'Want to bet we're still at war in 2020?
marym625
(17,997 posts)Damn straight we do. And one way to do that is to make sure we prosecute every last person with blood on their hands.
In Nuremberg we prosecuted those that followed orders. Now we prosecute those that refused. So many, young, caring people, that enlisted under the belief they would be sent to defend our country, were incarcerated because they refused to go, or go back, to fight in Iraq, after learning the truth. Now they have felony records, unable to obtain a job. While the monsters that lied us into an illegal war walk free and rich.
No one ever said life is fair. But this particular inequity must be rectified.
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)They made their money off of the war itself, that's why it never ends.
malaise
(269,066 posts)+1,000
marym625
(17,997 posts)raccoon
(31,111 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)Skittles
(153,169 posts)K&R
marym625
(17,997 posts)Though, here, it's obvious why.
Skittles
(153,169 posts)but I CANNOT understand how THE WORST FOREIGN POLICY DECISION IN AMERICAN HISTORY gets a complete pass from SO MANY PEOPLE
marym625
(17,997 posts)And here we go again.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)Hepburn
(21,054 posts)From some, no sympathy whatsoever for her...only bitching about how it reflected on Hillary.
What the hell?!?!?!?!?! She lost her love and the ONLY grief is for Hillary????
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Traitors, warmongers and banksters all need to be held to account.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Sick fucking bastard.
The war in Iraq was treason. So was the economic collapse. The End Game Memo, written by a long time and current Clinton advisor and nominee for Federal Reserve Chairman under President Obama, Larry Summers, should be the first of the banksters to be prosecuted.
Damn, that video is sickening
Octafish
(55,745 posts)OP's a busted link now, but this chestnut has Sen. Prescott Bush's writings in "Readers' Digest"
To Preserve Peace Lets Show Russians How Strong We Are
By Prescott Bush
U.S. Senator from Connecticut;
member of the Senate Armed Services Committee
The Readers Digest July 1959
MANS GREATEST danger, it is said, is ignorance. In a very real sense, the Soviet Unions ignorance of our military strength may be the source of her gravest periland ours. Kaiser Wilhelm started World War I because he miscalculated Allied power. Hitler, mistakenly thinking he could blitz the world, launched World War II. Kruschev today lacks firsthand knowledge of our country; he may be given what others think he would like to hearrather than an objective report on our actual military strength. Although it seems impossible that any sane person could start a war, we would be wise to take no chances.
Why not invite the Soviet high command to the United States for a conducted tour of our military might? We are bringing Russians to see our farms and factories, our scientific laboratories and research centers; we exchange dancers and musicians. Why not have their military leaders over for the most beneficial look of all? Our expressed policy, the aim and purpose of our entire defense system, is to deter the Kremlin from starting a war. What better way to deter than to show?
What we could show is nothing more nor less than the greatest military might ever assembled in the history of the world. If the Soviet high command could see what we have, they should be of our mindthat for them to start war today would be an act of insanity.
We could start in a Pentagon briefing room. There, with maps, globes, films and sound-projection equipment to help illustrate our points, we could give them a good hard look at the distribution of American power. Then we could fly the group to Mountain Home Air Force Base in Montana, where bombers of the Strategic Air Command are on 24-hour alert, many ready to take off within 15 minutes. We could see an awe-inspiring line of B-47s, any one of which can, in a single mission, deliver explosive power equivalent to that of all the bombs dropped by all sides in World War II. We could invite the commander of the Soviet air force to ride in one of these planes, and see it refueled in the air, thus quietly demonstrating that, while most Soviet bombers would have to fly one-way missions, ours can strike any target in the world and return nonstop.
SNIP...
The demonstration at SAC should effectively dismiss from Soviet minds any speculation about the possibility of their gaining an advantage from all-out war any time soon. But we must face the fact that in a few years the Russians may be able to zero in our SAC bases with ballistic missiles. To drive this temptation out of their minds, we could show them other deterrents.
SNIP...
Its fortunate for them that we want only peace with justice. Our entire record attests to that. We have no history of aggression, profess no desire for world domination, as do the Communists. Only by their continued menace have we been forced to take these measures for defense.
I ASK, Why dont we show the Russians many of these defense measures? What I would not show them is any self-satisfaction on our part about the future, any slowing-up of plans to produce the new weapons which must inevitably take the place of the old ones. I believe we are in a continuing struggle to keep on top in this business of declaring war. I think that the Russians are never to be underrated. I also believe that the Communists are master bluffers that they seek to put us off by arrogant threats to Berlin and to the peace of the far Pacific, and, while our people are preoccupied with these threats, they may try to take over Iraq as the Chinese Reds have conquered Tibet.
CONTINUES
The Readers Digest
July 1959 pp. 25-30
Very pro-business approach to mineral extraction, skipping the owners.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Truly.
Thank you for this.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Township75
(3,535 posts)As well as any.one else that voted to back the bush war.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Township75
(3,535 posts)politicians...just goes to show, some people only want to give the impression of being against illegal wars, when really they are only against someone and the illegal war is largely irrelevant.
marym625
(17,997 posts)There's so much that we, as Democrats, have been angry about for years, that suddenly are given a pass. And while giving that pass to some, these same people are critizing others for voting to spend money to keep our troops safe.
No Child Left Behind, the Bankruptcy bill, the Patriot Act and the illegal war in Iraq, are all, suddenly, ok.
It's disgusting
Skittles
(153,169 posts)and it is sickening beyond BELIEF
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Pesky document, that.
marym625
(17,997 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Disturbing the peace laws are covered by state or local ordinances. While disturbing the peace is not considered a serious criminal offense, it is an offense punishable by jail time, monetary fine, or both.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Or more accurately, lies, most certainly breaks the peace and tranquility of everyone in the nation.
From your own link
n. any act which disturbs the public or even one person. It can include almost any criminal act causing fear or attempting intimidation, such as displaying a pistol or shouting inappropriately.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)can be held criminally responsible for voting to authorize military force?
Lying doesn't constitute a breach of the peace. Walking down the street at 2am screaming at the top of your lungs for no good reason is a breach of the peace.
I'm not having this Stalinist purge shit in my country.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Lying to use our military, our children, mothers, fathers, to blow away and be blown away, is hardly a vote.
It disturbed the peace of millions of Americans and anyone that lied to cause this atrocity, is guilty of treason.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)That's still not what "breach of the peace" means. Again, you're saying members of Congress who constitutionally have authority to declare war should be charged with treason for doing what the constitution explicitly gives them the authority to do, just because you don't like what they voted for.
Take this unconstitutional, unamerican horseshit elsewhere.
marym625
(17,997 posts)That's treason.
And the definition I used of Breach of Peace is correct. Much peace, of many, across the country and abroad, was breached.
That's unamerican. It's treason. It also breached the peace.
What you're saying is horse shit
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)That's treason.
No, it isn't. Not by any stretch of the imagination. I can't even believe you seriously think that's treason. I'm so dumbfounded by that, in fact, that I'm having trouble finding a way to tell you how wrong that is.
Treason is committing acts that give an enemy of the United States aid or comfort. American citizens enlisting in the Wehrmacht after 1941 would be treason. Sending money or arms to the North Vietnamese Army would be treason.
Voting to declare war or authorize military force leading to an opposing military force fighting back is not treason. That's how armed conflict fucking works.
No, it's not. Somebody else tried this nonsense to say that lobbyists should be tried as domestic terrorists. Voting, legislating and debating are the functions of Congress, and the Constitution explicitly protects them to engage in it regardless of whether what they're saying is popular.
A breach of the peace requires a direct act--playing music too loudly, shouting, waving a gun around, or throwing a tantrum. If a Congressman starting flipping desks and throwing furniture, he could be restrained by the police for breach of the peace.
Voting to authorize military force is explicitly delegated to Congress as its responsibility. Voting does not in any way, ever, at all constitute a breach of the peace.
That is just unbelievably stupid, even by DU standards.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Nor have you read what those decisions are based on.
Nor do you understand that peace was breached.
Never once did I say that the vote is treasonous. Nor do I believe it is. But the planning, the collusion with foreign nationals, the lying to cause an army to fight against the U.S. is treason.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)for lying because Adam Gadahn was indicted for treason for being an al-Qaeda propagandist, I don't think you understood any SCOTUS decision you read.
Nor do you understand what "breach of peace" means, no matter how much you torture the definition to get it to say what you want it to. Breach of peace has absolutely fuck all to do with war, and everything to do with disorderly conduct and being a nuisance in public.
I'm done here. This is a waste of my time.
marym625
(17,997 posts)But definitely right about a waste of time.
mnhtnbb
(31,395 posts)I wonder if we could put a stop to some of this endless terrorism, bombing, terrorism by
offering up Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, and Powell (along with Tony Blair) to The Hague to be tried
for war crimes?
And then I'd like to see the US close about 1/2 our military bases around the world and transfer
some of that funding for the military to helping countries which have been targets of our empire
building and investing some of the rest of that budget into providing education and jobs
for people at home so they don't have to join the military to survive.
marym625
(17,997 posts)to tell the world, in anyway, even show any kind of remorse, for the horror we forced upon the people of Iraq, has got to help fuel the fire.
I've thought the same thing
Stevepol
(4,234 posts)The leaders of this terrible tragedy that has brought so much suffering and hell, Bush and Cheney and his crew, should be locked away I think for as long as they can be. Let it be a show trial done to heal the wounds but let there be a trial. If we continue to lack the courage to face the truth, we will never get past it, and we will be destined to do the same thing at some point in the future. If we have the courage to face it head on, we will perhaps be able to at least partly rid ourselves of this unholy period in our history and the criminals who ushered it in. It will be a service not just to ourselves but to humanity.
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)theboss
(10,491 posts)They aren't the IRA - who were violent terrorists with a very specific, narrow, and generally obtainable goal.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)we're looking forward now!
marym625
(17,997 posts)more Paris. We are to blame for so much of what is happening now in the world.
Those words make me sick. I'm with you on your frustration
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Look back
marym625
(17,997 posts)Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it. Looking at who is looking forward, that's one scary thought
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Last edited Sat Nov 14, 2015, 12:19 PM - Edit history (1)
And Catholics in Europe was a particularly brutish, nasty affair. No reason to think the new version will be any nicer.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)tularetom
(23,664 posts)First, Daddy Bush writes a book in which he essentially throws Cheney and Rumsfeld under the bus, in the process making his son look like an unwitting stooge.
Then a story comes out that they had a lot more warning than the famous PDB ("bin Laden determined to strike in US" , that the CIA was practically begging them to take action, and that the files are full of CYA documents from various intelligence officials.
It all makes me think that there is someone fairly close to the decision making process who is about to go public with information that will cast a very unpleasant light on the whole crew.
It will be most uncomfortable for the entire Bush administration but also for those legislators who voted to start a war with a country that had jack shit to do with the events of 9/11.
And once the connection between the Iraq war and the rise of ISIS is clear, there will be no place to hide for a lot of people. Even complaint media won't be able to keep it covered up.
It may be wishful thinking but IMO the rumbles are starting.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)The emails, which prove a much, caused problems for Blair in the U.K., while being practically ignored in the U.S., may actually be the beginning of justice for our troops, their families and the people of Iraq.
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)Attorney General Goldsmith told Mr Blair on the eve of the war that it could be challenged under international law
It has long been suspected Labour put pressure on Goldsmith to change his mind, and 10 days later he did a U-turn
Disclosure is one of the most shocking indications yet that Mr Blair and his inner circle were intent on going to war
marym625
(17,997 posts)spanone
(135,846 posts)they crawl out from under rocks to put on the make-up and spew their bullshit.
they are never questioned about their administration's decision to go to war in iraq and if that's a contributing factor (that would be rude, eh?)
...now they are simply 'experts'
Cleita
(75,480 posts)and I don't have the urge to hurl a hammer at my TV.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Despicable. Each and every one
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Exceptions, I think.
marym625
(17,997 posts)around. But I don't think he can be called mainstream anymore.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Miller Approach: access to power is far more important than the truth.
marym625
(17,997 posts)talking points dictated by the powerful, aka oligarchs.
niyad
(113,393 posts)than ever.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)for war crimes. We need to right this wrong. It was them who cooked up the idea of removing Saddam and bringing the whole ME under a Pax Americana and now we are seeing the results, endless war and terrorist attacks on innocent people.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Including what happened in Paris yesterday.
onecaliberal
(32,865 posts)Everything going on now can be directly connected to the illegal invasion of Iraq. All of this is beyond sickening.
marym625
(17,997 posts)and ask about getting around the executive order. If there is no way, then we should start by calling for the arrest and prosecution of those that are not covered by it.
onecaliberal
(32,865 posts)What the hell will it ever take to stop the madness.
marym625
(17,997 posts)It's the cash cow they've wanted for nearly a century. Now, they build the armies to fight the armies that they created. The largest military budget in the history of the world, paying private corporations, building more terrorists and armies, to spend more money on weapons, to oust more leaders, to build more resistance and more armies, to sell more weapons and garner "charitable donations" to obtain more weapons.....
I will let you know what they say.
LuvLoogie
(7,014 posts)The investigation would likely take several years. Then you would have to consider what charges to bring to whom with what evidence. Then they would have to be served.
I don't think Cheney or Bush would show up to be arraigned, so they would have to be arrested. They would be surrounded by right wing Militias on a some ranch in Texas. Texas and Oklahoma would become an armed camp. Bernie Sanders would then have to escalate into a regional conflict.
If Bernie arrested Bush and Cheney by stealth there would be an armed march to DC.
marym625
(17,997 posts)I don't care if it takes decades. It must happen.
onecaliberal
(32,865 posts)Wasting millions. An investigation that went on longer than the 9-11 commission,!which was a joke. I don't care how long it takes, millions of people are dead, more people will die. We should all be ashamed these war criminals walk free. We need investigating NOW. Ample evidence to convict a lot of them is already public.
LuvLoogie
(7,014 posts)To instill public will for an investigation that will ultimately need to be initiated by Democrats. I don't think we have the Democrats in Congress that would investigate without the people behind them.
I understand that justice should be the motivation regardless, but it is the American DNA to tolerate a lot of injustice. We as people will first have to adopt a more perfect notion of justice.
Cheney will not die in prison. George Bush will not die in prison. --As long as they stay in the United States. They don't leave because they know The U.S. would not send commandos to free them from the Hague.
onecaliberal
(32,865 posts)LuvLoogie
(7,014 posts)You can bring charges in absentia I suppose, even though we would know where they are. An investigation of this gravity would consume the Justice Department. It would have to become the focus of the administration that took it on.
I doubt that any of our candidates is going to base his/her candidacy on a pledge to prosecute the Bush Administration.
onecaliberal
(32,865 posts)This might give them something to do.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)ever seen.
Never gonna happen and it's foolish to believe it ever could.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)world has ever seen"????
you said it, you own it. Now you have to explain and defend it.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)It would end 225 years of constitutional rule in a single act.
Every administration would be compelled to round up the opposition, put them on trial, convict them, and get rid of them from that point forward. And every incumbent administration would be compelled to arrest the opposition before they would ever have a chance to do it.
In essence, the only super power on the face of the earth becomes a dictatorial regime over night if you do that. That means the entire globe would suffer under brutal police state rule by whatever party seizes power after the prior administration has been put on trial.
choie
(4,111 posts)can put their leaders on trial for war crimes, but the "only super power" who claims to be the bastion of truth, justice and freedom can't??
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)You will NEVER see anybody from the Bush administration put on trial over the Iraq War.
It will simply not happen.
choie
(4,111 posts)I'll deal with only the first one "There is nothing to put them on trial for" - are you kidding me? How about war crimes? Nice to see that there are still apologists on this board...
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Only a demand for a political kangaroo court.
Seriously, I think this bullshit is what's been the reasoning behind every Anti-Obama leftist out there.
AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!
choie
(4,111 posts)I think it's pretty obvious who you're trying to protect...
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)innocent Iraqis dead FOR NOTHING and the perpetrators walking around free men. That's a far worse injustice than arguable 'end of 225 years of constitutional rule." Or do you place constitutional rule above the lives of 1,000,000 civilians?????
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)US law was followed to the letter in the lead up to the war in Iraq. Not a single US law was broken taking us to war in Iraq.
What you are demanding is a political kangaroo court because you, like I, disagreed with the decision to go to war in Iraq.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)at Nuremberg and in the 1956 round of the Geneva Conventions are you?
Nah, I thought not.
BTW, the U.S. was an original signatory to both the U.N. and Geneva. Any treaties we enter into have the FULL FORCE AND WEIGHT OF THE CONSTITUTION, since you're so into constitutional rule and all.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)There was international support for the war in Iraq.
The UN never condemned the war in Iraq.
Ergo, international law was not broken in the lead up to war in Iraq
Just because you do not like a political decision does not make that political decision illegal.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)of preventative war. Since Iraq was never for the purpose of defending against an imminent attack it was, by its nature, preventative.
Please show me, then, where the U.N. Security Council authorized said extra-legal 'coalition' to invade Iraq.
You can't and so you won't. you stand convicted along with Hillary, Kerry, Biden and the entire Bush cohort before the bar of history, of justice and of morality. THose 1,000,000 Iraqi deaths are on your hands too.
We are done.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)There was no UN resolution on Kosovo. We went anyway.
Is Bill Clinton a war criminal too?
There was no UN resolution on Grenada.
There was no UN resolution on Nicaragua.
We don't need a UN Resolution.
EX500rider
(10,849 posts)....by firing on US planes enforcing the no-fly zone over the north. Once the cease fire has been broken the US is under no obligation to not attack Iraqi forces.
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)the war was illegal under US and international law, simply because there was no "imminent" threat (as is required by the WPA of 1973, what the Iraq AUMF was grounded in.has to comply with) upon which to justify the invasion/bombing.
choie
(4,111 posts)no crimes were committed when we tortured people with impunity, huh?
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Enough to gain a conviction? Definitely not for any administration official. Possibly for low level people who carried out some actions, though doubtful.
okasha
(11,573 posts)Constitunional rule protects millions
more--it protects your own freedom of speech on this board because to advocate overturning the Constitution is equivalent to calling for the overthrow of the United States government.
Go watch A Man for All Seasons, Roper.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Know but may have forgotten that any treaties the U.S. becomes a party to have the full weight and authority of the Constitution behind them (the Supremacy Clause in Article 6).
So you might wish to review the U.N. Charter (to which we are signatories) for details on who may authorize a preventative war such as Operation Shocking and Awful. HINT: It ain't POTUS.
choie
(4,111 posts)Response to MohRokTah (Reply #48)
Name removed Message auto-removed
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Response to MohRokTah (Reply #57)
Name removed Message auto-removed
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)prevailing norms of civilized behavior.
Because . . . 'constitutional rule' or something.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)I disagreed with it. I was on the losing side of the political battle over whether or not we would do it. I, unlike you, accept that I lost that political battle.
You desire a kangaroo court over the loss of a political decision.
Response to MohRokTah (Reply #70)
Name removed Message auto-removed
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Response to MohRokTah (Reply #81)
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Rex
(65,616 posts)Pretends nothing happened.
marym625
(17,997 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)End of discussion.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Seeking to prosecute those responsible for war crimes is not, in any way, shape or form, "taking out those that disagree." Your statement is obsurd.
Yeah, end of discussion. No point in "discussing" the absolutely ridiculous.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Foolish in the highest degree.
End of discussion.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Response to MohRokTah (Reply #72)
Name removed Message auto-removed
leveymg
(36,418 posts)It's doomed to a cycle of perpetual warfare, disunity and destabilization, resulting in eventual social and economic collapse.
Now, brush that one off, Mort.
Skittles
(153,169 posts)choie
(4,111 posts)you may think it's "taking out those who disagree with you" but there are laws that are SUPPOSED to be respected and followed. If leaders do not do so, they should be prosecuted.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)End of discussion.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Different concept. Grasp the distinction, Mort?
Rex
(65,616 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)but sooner or later the People will prevail. You can only push us so far before we fight back. The millions turning out in favor of Sen Sanders are tired of the corrupt political games played by Wall Street and their political puppets. Your friends with the billions to spend may be successful in pushing Clinton into the Presidency, but our movement to get money out of politics has just begun.
I am guessing you were against Citizens United until it started helping Clinton.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Doesn't matter what their principles are as long as they are tough. You don't like open-minded people and hate whistle-blowers.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)is to mock a progressive that was caught up in the purge. Those are huge clues.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)The awful tragedies these War Crimes have caused just add to need for justice for these fucking monsters.
marym625
(17,997 posts)We won't know peace until we do the least we can, which is prosecute the monsters responsible.
moondust
(19,993 posts)The lockstep GOP was mainly responsible for pushing the invasion of Iraq onto the world, yet American voters turned around and gave them big victories in 2010 and 2014. They may also have a shot at winning the White House next year since control often changes hands after two terms of one party, which is probably part of the reason for so many GOP candidates this time.
That's how fucking crazy U.S. politics has become.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Ad they've made sure that rural, right wing, Americans depend greatly on the war machine for an income. Both by having no choice but to enlist in the military for the promised, yet often undelivered, education, and working at munitions plants.
moondust
(19,993 posts)I've thought for a long time that the GOP likes high unemployment because it creates a big supply of unemployed young people who may have little choice but to join the military for the benefits and then die in their crazy wars for oil and empire. Plus large populations of unemployed tend to depress wages generally.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)But do we have heart enough to right the wrongs?
marym625
(17,997 posts)Well, the oligarchs and their msm, aka, American Pravda, doesn't have heart.
niyad
(113,393 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)Calling the ACLU first thing Monday.
niyad
(113,393 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)JI7
(89,252 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)And while I hope he does, doesn't change what should be done, what is the legally and morally responsible thing to do or how I feel one iota.
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)Fuck that shit!
marym625
(17,997 posts)Yeah, fuck that shit
Metric System
(6,048 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)LongTomH
(8,636 posts).......hanged under the Nuremberg principles, especially Principle VI, which includes crimes against peace (a war of aggression), war crimes (Ill-treatment, torture, of prisoners of war), and "wanton destruction of cities, towns, or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity" (Remember Fallujah?).
marym625
(17,997 posts)I don't believe in the death penalty, period. But I sure understand the emotion behind it
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
marym625
(17,997 posts)spiderpig
(10,419 posts)They created Cheney, Blackstone, Guantanamo, Al Queda, ISIS...
I can't go on because I'm trying to cut down on cuss words.
marym625
(17,997 posts)I'm not. Fucking monsters
B Calm
(28,762 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)How about sending them without a gun
PufPuf23
(8,793 posts)Good rant too. I have nearly every day for years had the same conversation in my head.
marym625
(17,997 posts)They'll get more of a pass than they already have.
Disgusted
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Of Limitations for murder.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)Though, there's very little difference in this aspect
libodem
(19,288 posts)[img][/img]
marym625
(17,997 posts)For me, that includes those they call "family."
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/05/politics/george-w-bush-hillary-clinton-jeb-bush/index.html
daleanime
(17,796 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)but even if they were dead we need to state clearly and loudly that these kinds of actions are unamerican and will be persecuted.
marym625
(17,997 posts)IHateTheGOP
(1,059 posts)For war crimes, violations of international law, and violations of the US Constitution.
marym625
(17,997 posts)EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)Prosecute all of those in power responsible for all the other US wars, coups and funding and propping up dictators around the world.
Americans are sooooo upset about Iraq - because it affects them - but the same sort of illegal foreign policy disasters planned and executed and paid for by the US have been affecting millions of non-Americans for decades and Americans don't seem to care.
It'd be nice if we cared as much about what out government does to other countries and their innocent civilians as we do when the blowback of an illegal war affects us.
marym625
(17,997 posts)We're set up to be a war machine and everything we do is about war. Every aspect of our economy. We literally breed to have troops, as the republicans and oligarchs have set this economy up.
I am just as angry and have been for decades. Confessions of an Economic Hitman is an outstanding book about how we keep the war machine turning
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)That as a country we can't be bothered to learn what we do and have done.
Very irresponsible.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Not sure where your anger is placed.
While I agree we should all take responsibility for making sure we're educated, part of the plan by the oligarchs and republicans, was to dumb down America. Unfortunately, they've succeeded.
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)Isn't REALLY anger.
It's just frustration and disappointment.
marym625
(17,997 posts)KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Very good OP, Mary.
marym625
(17,997 posts)madokie
(51,076 posts)would be to prosecute the war mongering war criminals of the bush/cheney administration.
Until we do that we will never have peace. We must push for that end. We owe it to the world, we owe it to ourselves and especially toour children and grand children
marym625
(17,997 posts)I wholeheartedly agree. In fact, I believe I said the same somewhere in this thread.
It's exactly what they want, perpetual war. It's been designed into the fabric of our economy.
madokie
(51,076 posts)"It's exactly what they want, perpetual war. It's been designed into the fabric of our economy."
marym625
(17,997 posts)NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)After all he helped fund the wars.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Evidently, that's not something you believe in
deutsey
(20,166 posts)wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)I've been around here & there. Hope you are doing well?
marym625
(17,997 posts)wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)deutsey
(20,166 posts)But here's to hoping.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Though I don't know if the will is there, yet.
Thank you!
Octafish
(55,745 posts)DEMOCRATIC ACTION.
marym625
(17,997 posts)And nonstop on all fronts
Thank you
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Those who remember may find it weird to see this reaction is just like 9-11.
Prosecuting the terrorists who lied (or misled - hi Judge Silberman!) America into war will go a long way toward stopping the global war on terror and the terrorists war on the world. It certainly would restore Justice.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Makes me very sad. This is not the same place.
But, I refuse to accept defeat