The Last President that bucked the powers that be..Kennedy

[Ichingcarpenter]

Nixon..... he was a protege of Senator Bush
Carter.......... tried but was taken down political, I read he cried when he couldn't reveal the real truth to the American people.

Reagan..... a tool

Bush....... well its Bush

Clinton.......he invented a third way to survive.
Bush............ well its Bush

Obama.. he had great campaign talk about independence and the ideals we believe but he too was overwhelmed by I think the Bill Hicks scenario he described with every new president would view a film since and because of Kennedy ........... and then he........

The next election? Well. We shall see.

[MohRokTah]

1. "the powers that be"

I immediately disregard anything said by people who use that phrase.

[Ichingcarpenter]

3. Aren't you special

Is this your next dissertation that you will submit for your academic advancement.? Or is this a thesis for your logic class you took?

[Rex]

10. Funny thing...who cares!?

That poster is amusing...but that is as far is it goes. I LOVE telling people things about myself that nobody cares about!

LOOKIT ME LOOKIT ME!

[MohRokTah]

49. Everybody KNOWS it was the Bildebergers!

[Ichingcarpenter]

60. So the Bildeberg group is a delusion ?

And those international meetings are a delusion?
Witnessed by most media?

So what is your academic story on this group?

[Rex]

9. Thanks for letting us know something that nobody cares about!

[H2O Man]

70. 14 posts

to say one doesn't care about the topic is rather funny, isn't it?

[malaise]

72. And then some

[hifiguy]

24. It's so much simpler to be a good little sheep.

Those rumours about "the slaughterhouse" aren't real, either. Pay them no mind. None at all.

[MohRokTah]

34. Much easier to explain things because "The Bogeyman did it" than with reality.

Conspiracy woo is just that, woo.

[hifiguy]

39. Documented FACTS presented by real historians

are what they are. And they are not woo. Merely inconvenient and upsetting for some people who don't want to know the truth.

[MohRokTah]

40. Claiming fact with "the powers that be" is just comspiracy theory bullshit. eom

[hifiguy]

44. I side with Professor Galbraith

"The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking." - John Kenneth Galbraith

[MohRokTah]

45. I side with reality.

There is no "the powers that be".

You might as well say "the Bogeyman", "The Illuminati", or "The Bildebergers" for all the sense it makes.

It's conspiracy theory bullshit.

[hifiguy]

48. One last thing.

Read Michael Glennon's "National Security and Double Government." Less than 200 pages and beautifully written.

He's a full professor at the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University, one of the most respected schools in the US. He knows more than a little bit about reality.

Bye now.

[MohRokTah]

52. And he said nothing about "the powers that be".

[thereismore]

61. You are like a dog with a bone, relax a bit. nt

[MohRokTah]

62. And there is no such thing as "the powers that be".

IT's just a bogeyman, like the Illuminati and the Bildebergers.

It's conspiracy theory bullshit.

[hifiguy]

66. Whatever gets you through the night.

[MohRokTah]

67. And whatever explains what you cannot explain, I guess.

Like magical sky beings driving a chariot across the sky to give us the sun.

[leveymg]

59. Tell that to David Halberstam. I guess you're just a lot smarter and better informed than he.

Was this just "conspiracy theory bullshit", Mort? Why don't you read up on things before you make absolute statements and an ass of yourself, again.

[LanternWaste]

43. Only the More Clever Than Thou and Good Little Sheep seem to exist when opinions aren't shared

Only the More Clever Than Thou and Good Little Sheep seem to exist when opinions aren't shared. How... simplistic in thought, irrational in development, and ethically convenient.

If "they" don't share my opinions, "they" are 'good little sheep.' Indeed, I can see the irrational attraction a lack of critical thought, allows.

[hifiguy]

50. I read factual history to arrive at my conclusions.

DOCUMENTED, FACTUAL HISTORY by respected historians.

Do you read ANYTHING?

[villager]

27. I'm not sure commenting in a thread qualifies as "disregarding"

n/t

[MohRokTah]

32. It is pointing out Conspiracy Theory nonsense

I see many buy into conspiracy theory nonsense in this thread, too.

[villager]

33. Well, certainly you're helping to keep it kicked, which is good

Since not all conversation here is so straightjacketed....

[MohRokTah]

35. The more people who see which DUers will buy into conspiracy theory nonsense, the better. eom

[villager]

36. Well, the more people see who the nonsensical DUers are, the better, indeed

n/t

[MohRokTah]

37. Thank you for agreeing with me. eom

[villager]

38. Conceptually, sure. Specifically, no.

But you know, you're welcome and stuff.

[MohRokTah]

47. "The Powers that Be" did it.

Or "the bogeyman" did it, I forget.

Maybe it was "The Illuminati" or maybe even "the Bildebergers".

I'm sure one will send the black helicopters over your house soon.

[villager]

51. Ah, so you had to delete your "disregarding," since you're so clearly engaged in this thread

Well, makes sense.

You're the opposite of "disregarding" right now, but that's what a discussion site is for, right?

[MohRokTah]

54. Just pointing out the CT woo. eom

[villager]

55. No, it's more like a kind of enmeshment, really

Woo hoo!

[MohRokTah]

56. CT woo is WT woo.

I call it when I see it.

Can't name a bogeyman? Call it "the powers that be". Same shit, different moniker.

[villager]

57. Fierce! Engaged! Regarding right and left!

[Scuba]

68. So you think this is just bullshit, eh?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/koch-backed-network-aims-to-spend-nearly-1-billion-on-2016-elections/2015/01/26/77a44654-a513-11e4-a06b-9df2002b86a0_story.html?postshare=2531422306006736

Koch-backed network aims to spend nearly $1 billion in run-up to 2016

[Agnosticsherbet]

2. You forgot Lyndon Johnson

Designed his signature "Great Society" legislation, which included laws upholding civil rights, public broadcasting, Medicare, Medicaid, environmental protection, aid to education, and the abolition of poverty

Signed the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 and 1968 outlawing most forms of racial segregation and providing equal housing opportunities regardless of race, creed, or national origin, and passed the Voting Rights Act of 1965 outlawing discrimination in voting

Appointed Thurgood Marshall as the first African American justice on the Supreme Court

Signed the Elementary and Secondary Education Act and Higher Education Act to improve funding to schools, especially those in poor districts

Established the National Endowment for the Humanities and the National Endowment for the Arts to support humanists and artists

Created programs to tackle poverty such as Head Start, food stamps, Work Study, Medicare, and Medicaid

Signed the Immigration Act of 1965, which substantially liberalized US immigration policy towards non-Europeans

Johnson and FDR were the greatest liberal Presidents in our history.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

4. In terms of domestic policy, you should qualify.

In terms of foreign policy, LBJ was atrocious.

Which sadly made his overall presidency something of a wash.

[Ichingcarpenter]

6. The LBJ's wink as he was sworn in.

[Ichingcarpenter]

12. I hope you know who winked at smiling LBJ

and look at the widow's face.

[riderinthestorm]

20. Yup, Congressman Albert Thomas who was also a member of the 8F Group

aka Kellogg, Brown and Root - a notorious war profiteering company.

Thanks Octafish who has taught me much...

[Ichingcarpenter]

5. Yes he did but those were Kennedy programs and visions

LBJ and Nam ....... I will never forgive him


I buried too many of my friends for that

LBJ was not the man you think he was.

[Agnosticsherbet]

7. The Great Society was Johnson's Program

and would never have passed without him.

Nam can be laid at the feet of every president from Eisenhower through Nixon. I, too, buried more than a few friends.

LBJ was not alone in making war, as FDR is well known For WWII. It is one of those odd tidbits of history that those two Presidents associated most closely with those wars were also those who contributed the most to liberal laws and programs.

[Ichingcarpenter]

8. Now you need to go back to the Dulles brothers

and the CIA who are part of 'the powers that be' thing.

You are just skimming the surface of this onion

IKE knew he was getting fucked over with the MIC
or the BTB in his talk to the nation in his farewell address. The missile crisis he found out was a lie, the soviets didn't have missile or nuke superiority ........ we did.

Nam?........ the same shit.

[Octafish]

11. Agree with the premise...

...President Carter did try. Other Democrats, not so much, for reasons only the national security state run by secret government knows. When Carter said Human Rights would guide our foreign policy, the money-trumps-peace crowd figured a go-around via the foreign-led and petro-financed Safari Club:

This writer sheds light on the Org designed to keep Poppy's CIA "open for business" during the Carter years. It also sheds light on why things never really change, such as wars without end and trickle-down economics:

A NEW BIOGRAPHY TRACES THE PATHOLOGY OF ALLEN DULLES AND HIS APPALLING CABAL

by Jon Schwarz
The Intercept, Nov. 2 2015, 1:24 p.m.

EXCERPT...

Because what the Safari Club demonstrates is that Dulles’ entire spooky world is beyond the reach of American democracy. Even the most energetic post-World War II attempt to rein it in was in the end as effective as trying to lasso mist. And today we’ve largely returned to the balance of power Dulles set up in the 1950s. As Jay Rockefeller said in 2007 when he was chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, “Don’t you understand the way intelligence works? Do you think that because I’m chairman of the Intelligence Committee that I just say ‘I want it, give it to me’? They control it. All of it. All of it. All the time.”

In February 2002, Saudi Prince Turki Al Faisal, head of Saudi intelligence from 1977 until September 1, 2001, traveled to Washington, D.C. While there, Turki, who’d graduated from Georgetown University in the same class as Bill Clinton, delivered a speech at his alma mater that included an unexpected history lesson:

In 1976, after the Watergate matters took place here, your intelligence community was literally tied up by Congress. It could not do anything. It could not send spies, it could not write reports, and it could not pay money. In order to compensate for that, a group of countries got together in the hope of fighting communism and established what was called the Safari Club. The Safari Club included France, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, and Iran … so, the Kingdom, with these countries, helped in some way, I believe, to keep the world safe when the United States was not able to do that. That, I think, is a secret that many of you don’t know.

Turki was not telling the whole truth. He was right that his Georgetown audience likely had never heard any of this before, but the Safari Club had been known across the Middle East for decades. After the Iranian revolution the new government gave Mohamed Hassanein Heikal, one of the most prominent journalists in the Arab world, permission to examine the Shah’s archives. There Heikal discovered the actual formal, written agreement between the members of the Safari Club, and wrote about it in a 1982 book called Iran: The Untold Story.

And the Safari Club was not simply the creation of the countries Turki mentioned — Americans were involved as well. It’s true the U.S. executive branch was somewhat hamstrung during the period between the post-Watergate investigations of the intelligence world and the end of the Carter administration. But the powerful individual Americans who felt themselves “literally tied up” by Congress — that is, unfairly restrained by the most democratic branch of the U.S. government — certainly did not consider the decisions of Congress to be the final word.

Whatever its funding sources, the evidence suggests the Safari Club was largely the initiative of these powerful Americans. According to Heikal, its real origin was when Henry Kissinger, then secretary of state, “talked a number of rich Arab oil countries into bankrolling operations against growing communist influence on their doorstep” in Africa. Alexandre de Marenches, a right-wing aristocrat who headed France’s version of the CIA, eagerly formalized the project and assumed operational leadership. But, Heikal writes, “The United States directed the whole operation,” and “giant U.S. and European corporations with vital interests in Africa” leant a hand. As John K. Cooley, the Christian Science Monitor’s longtime Mideast correspondent, put it, the setup strongly appealed to the U.S. executive branch: “Get others to do what you want done, while avoiding the onus or blame if the operation fails.”

This all seems like something Americans would like to know, especially since de Marenches may have extended his covert operations to the 1980 U.S. presidential election. In 1992, de Marenches’ biographer testified in a congressional investigation that the French spy told him that he had helped arrange an October 1980 meeting in Paris between William Casey, Ronald Reagan’s 1980 campaign manager, and the new Islamic Republic of Iran. The goal of such a meeting, of course, would have been to persuade Iran to keep its American hostages until after the next month’s election, thus denying Carter any last-minute, politically potent triumph.

De Marenches and the Safari Club certainly had a clear motive to oust Carter: They blamed him for allowing one of their charter members, the Shah, to fall from power. But whether de Marenches’ claims were true or not, we do know that history unfolded exactly as he and the Safari Club would have wished. The hostages weren’t released until Reagan was inaugurated, Reagan appointed Casey director of the CIA, and from that point forward America’s intelligence “community” was back in business.

And yet normal citizens would have a hard time just finding out the Safari Club even existed, much less the outlines of its activities. It appears to have been mentioned just once by the New York Times, in a profile of a French spy novelist. It likewise has made only one appearance in the Washington Post, in a 2005 online chat in which a reader asked the Post’s former Middle East bureau chief Thomas Lippman, “Does the Safari Club, formed in the mid-70s, still exist?” Lippman responded: “I never heard of it, so I have no idea.”

CONTINUED...

https://theintercept.com/2015/11/02/the-deepest-state-the-safari-club-allen-dulles-and-the-devils-chessboard/

When Carter's CIA director, Adm. Stansfield Turner, tossed out the bad apples, rogues, etc. -- Poppy was ticked. They were his chums. So, the petrodollar-connected friends found a work-around. Voila! The hostages are held past the election and Pruneface and Poppy are back in the White House. Cough Kissinger.

[BlueMTexpat]

14. I look forward to reading this book.

Especially because I have already read Family of Secrets and JFK and the Untouchable.

I totally agree that Carter was thoroughly screwed over by Daddy Bush's CIA chums.

[Ichingcarpenter]

16. CiA Bush briefed Carter when he came in to office

Think about that for second.

[hifiguy]

41. Ye gads, you are right.

That must have been an "interesting" conversation.

What I would not give to hear Jimmy Carter's honest, unretouched account of that.

[Art_from_Ark]

71. That might help explain why Carter stands away from the Bushes

in photo-ops.

[leveymg]

63. DCI Bush also pled to keep his cushy job, but Carter fired him. Motive, opportunity . . .

Carter's pick to succeed him, Admiral Turner then retired about 850 of the worst offenders in DOO identified by the Church-Pike committees and the CIA's own internal investigations into Nixon-Ford era abuses. CIA Director Bush was supposedly a placeholder after Colby, but GHWB created his own legacy, BCCI and the Safari Club, a deal with the Saudis allowing them to fund and take over covert activities that were too hot for CIA to handle directly under the incoming Carter Administration. The Pakistani nuclear program and the paramilitary organization that would become al-Qaeda were some of the results.

Bush's next job was as a Director of Joe Albriton's bank in Houston that went on to take over many, many smaller looted banks and S&Ls in Texas, and later the infamous Riggs National Bank in DC that was closed down after 9/11 as a terrorist financing through accounts held by the Saudi Ambassador and his wife. Small circles of friends.

[Ichingcarpenter]

15. If we follow the money as they say

We can trace the CIA back to NAZI gold financing their shit as well as using the Japanese gold and treasures they stole....... this one is interesting if you look at FOIAs and other documents

Then .......


The CIA established their own banks in Australia to take down the liberal government during the Vietnam war and promoting the heroin trade

80s?..... the cocaine poisoning of the US flying the shit into the states.

Afghanistan?........... now we have US troops protecting the poppy fields and a heroin epidemic in the states

We are talking about a lot of money that started their shit and now they are outside of the books because their is no oversight....compartmentalization..... private contracting national security so no one can reach it........hell a major can have a security clearance that a General might not have because he doesn't have a of 'need to know'

Need to know........ how strange is that saying?

There is reason .... I predicted the 2008 economic meltdown on DU
2 years before it happened.

And then they bailed out the banks that caused it.......
follow the money

[Octafish]

17. Switzerland...Meyer Lansky liked Switzerland.

For a reason:

...The sentimental favorite for making all this possible is Meyer Lansky. After the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) succeeded in 1931 in obtaining a conviction of Lansky's ally Al Capone on charges of tax evasion, the mob bosses woke up to the urgent need for proper laundry facilities. That same year, Salvatore "Lucky" Luciano, Meyer Lansky's business partner, led a coup against the old Mafia leadership, preparing the way for entry into the previously forbidden heroin trade. The flourishing activities of the Lansky-Luciano mob, and the subsequent necessity for sophisticated methods of hiding and directing the flow of cash, proved to be the mother of offshore invention.

In 1932 Meyer Lansky made his first major foray into Swiss banking. The immediate objective was to set up an account for Governor Huey Long of Louisiana, who had allowed the syndicate to open slot-machine emporia in New Orleans. That pointed the way for the general flow of mob money to overseas havens.

Although some syndicate cash followed the northern route -- New York to Canada to Switzerland -- most, particularly during the 1950s and 1960s, went by the southern route. From mob-run banks in Miami the funds went either directly to Switzerland or to the Bahamas for local deposit or for transfer to Switzerland.

The Lansky operation perfected the technique of the "loan-back." The first stage involved moving funds out of the US. Although couriers carrying cash were the favorite vehicle, money could also be moved abroad in the form of traveler's checks, cashier's checks (payable to the bearer with no questions asked), stocks with nominee ownership, bearer bonds, and even blank airline tickets. Once abroad, the funds were deposited in secret bank accounts. Lansky's preferred institution was the aptly named Exchange and Investment Bank in Geneva...

-- R.T. Naylor, "Hot Money and the Politics of Debt", p. 21

What a coincidence! Geneva also is where Mr. Dulles like to work after wars, between wars, and whenever the need arose.

[Ichingcarpenter]

23. The Japanese rape of gold and precious things which were never found

is normally not talked about... this one is extremely interesting, cause
we know they did it to Asia and no one talks about what happened to all the stuff they stole.

The new discovery of the NAZI train is also something to put into question

The Asian thing
That helped finance this hidden government which
some know that is real and others that just don't care.

The Dulles brothers in Asia after WW!! is a good study.

We can't stop it but you and I brother can report on what we find out

[Rex]

13. Yeah he wanted to make the CIA a non-entity and hold the Pentagon responsible for

collateral damage. That didn't work out very well.

[philosslayer]

18. Why can't President Carter reveal the truth to the American people now?

He's over 90 years old with cancer.

[Ichingcarpenter]

19. Well he did say recently the US is an oligarth and or democracy is a joke

In the United States now

But it really goes much deeper why he cried ........... as reported by a witness
He did the most of any president on FOIA , which where we still get the real story.............. its the connections and language we can follow ....
Even when they sent a message they thought was hidden.

[riderinthestorm]

22. I wonder too. He does have children and grandchildren who are politicians

He may be keeping silent to protect them...



I'd be worried for their political future if I were Jimmy Carter thinking of exposing everything.

[Ichingcarpenter]

25. His daughter was very radical

Maybe she doesn't want to be another Michael Hasting
or a David Kelly

Hey ............ now we really know that its not a conspiracy?.............LOL

[hifiguy]

21. Read Steve Kinzer's "The Brothers"

and David Talbot's "The Devil's Chessboard."

Nazi Gemany won the war with the US but it took 10-15 years and was done under cover.

The American Plutocracy of the 1920s and 1930s thought fascism, more properly known as "corporatism," per Giovanni Gentile, Mussolini's in-house philosopher of Italian Fascism, was the bright and shining waveof the future. A cowed, controlled populace without unions, fed a steady stream of nationalist propaganda, with Big Business in charge or sharing power was their dream come true.

The Dulles brothers, Allen and J. Foster, were among the most powerful members of this plutocratic elite as they were the directors of the most powerful corporate law firm in that world, Sullivan & Cromwell. They, and their clients, were strongly supportive of Fascism, and made much money from working with German and Italian Fascists. The were not happy when FDR made resisting Nazism his top foreign-policy priority even before Germany declared war on the US. The Bush family was one of those which made considerable $$$ dealing with Nazi interests, BTW. This cadre believed that the US should have allied with Nazi Germany to wipe out the USSR.

Allen Dulles was in the OSS during WW II. Amongother things he tried to cut a deal with Nazi leaders to get around the Allies' demands for unconditional surrencer. He regularly squelched or softened reports of the atrocities of the Holocaust before sending them on to Roosevelt. But most of all, he and his brother were responsible for bringing many unreconstructed Nazis into the US intelligence apparatus for the ostensible purpose of "fighing Communism" Hundreds, possibly thousands, of Nazis escaped to South America on "ratlines" designed by the Dulles brothers and their sympathizers in US intelligence (FWIW, the Vatican has also been implicated in helping war criminals to escape to South America and the Vatican's motive was the same as the Dulleses' - fight Soviet Communism).

These fascists were liberally seeded in high positions by Allen Dulles, particularly after he became director of the CIA in 1953, and eventually took over US policymaking and the grooming of the next generations of spooks. The process has largely replicated itself ever since.

Talbot, and James Douglass, argue with considerable authority and documented evidence that there was one man more than any other who wanted to be shed of that "upstart" Kennedy once and for all, and his name was Allen Dulles.

Kennedy demanded and got Dulles' head for lying him into the Bay of Pigs, but when Dulles "left" the CIA he retained operational control of major parts of the Agency for years. There was only one man who could effectively order a hit on the POTUS, and use the network he spent nearly 20 years building to carry it out.

Allen Dulles, ideological soulmate and friend of, and collaborator with, Nazis.

After the order for the hit was given, alternative sites were prepared. The hit in Chicago, two weeks before Dallas, was aborted. The one in Dallas succeeded. And then, in a piece of historical irony unmatched for centuries, Dulles lobbied to be, and was, appointed to the commission investigating a murder that he signed off of and in all likelihood masterminded, for the purpose of covering up how and why it happened.

That is deep cover, folks.

That cemented crypto-fascist control over US foreign policy. Domestic policy fell on January 20, 1981.

[Ichingcarpenter]

28. I can give all links to my research if one asks me

But back to my original thing

No one has said that shit I said is not going around
behind their backs an they know it.

You know it by bro

[hifiguy]

29. You GET the deep politics of it.

You, I and Octafish would likely have very similar reading lists.

[VanillaRhapsody]

26. The PTB

[think]

31. The Powers That Be...

Sorry. On a music kick today...

[Ichingcarpenter]

46. Me too after cleaning stairways too at my age

I'm soldier\

[think]

58. Haven't heard any Sade in years. Very impressive. She's kicked it up a notch...

[KamaAina]

42. The last President that didn't know where he was on 11/22/63... Bush 41

Well, okay, Obama gets a pass since he had just turned two. But we do know Poppy was in Dallas.

[hifiguy]

53. AND that he was a CIA asset,

and possibly an active agent.

[leveymg]

64. GHW Bush was identified as a "CIA agent" in an FBI report right after the JFK assassination.

But, his early relationship with the Agency otherwise been kept sanitized. His father Prescott Bush's associations with Allen Dulles, the first CIA Director (who was on the Warren Commission), and their German friends during the 1930s and World War Two have been exhumed, but the complete story of what happened to all that loot during 1944-65 still has not been told. Doesn't matter since he went on to be appointed CIA Director by Ford after Nixon appointed him Ambassador to China.

[hifiguy]

65. It always leads back to the Business Plotters

and the lawyers who represented so many of them, Allen and Foster Dulles, doesn't it? Funny, that.

[treestar]

69. So how about Congress?

Let's start with the Senate. Take Bernie Sanders. Is his life in danger?