Do you consider President Obama to be a "Third Wayer"?

[Nye Bevan]

67 votes, 3 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes
	55 (82%)
	No
	12 (18%)
	3 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Kalidurga]

1. I think he was forced into it

I don't think he started out that way. But, he faces obstruction every single day he is in office even on his days off. He is severely outnumbered by GOP clowns and blue dogs.

[CoffeeCat]

4. I have to agree with this...

I think Obama overestimated the power of the Presidency (many do) and underestimated the ferocity of his opponents.

We are most likely at a point where the corporations have so much power--that one President can only do so much. Especially when the bulk of our Senators and Congress members are bought-and-paid-for Pez Dispensers for the most powerful and wealthiest people in this country. Thanks for your campaign contribution...here's your banks deregulation, ENJOY!

The pressure must be enormous.

I remember doing research on Obama during the campaign, because I was trying to decide who to support in our 08 Democratic primary. I read an article in Newsweek about Obama's years as a Senator and how he was an outsider. People liked him, but he didn't attend the lavish parties and special-interest, cocktail-circuit events. Fellow members of Congress said he spent a lot of time at the gym. I thought that was telling. The guy didn't want to be part of the corruption, but he wanted to be a part of the system.

This is why this election is so important and why we need Bernie to be our next President.

[BlueJazz]

12. I think his intentions were honorable and he's accomplished some decent things.

The media, republicans and assorted other nuts have taken their toll on this well-meaning individual.

[Mnemosyne]

15. This^^^ and the other two reply posts. nt

[cascadiance]

17. They must have started forcing him early though. Rahm Emanuel as his chief of staff WAS Third Way!

It had his cabinet and his replacing of Howard Dean with DWS as head of DNC as being definitely Third Way.

And it's hard to see the forces behind pushing him in to pushing harder than anything else to get his free trade bills like TPA and TPP passed.

[canoeist52]

38. That's because his cabinet chose him.

He and his office, under Democratic rule, have no power .

[KingCharlemagne]

40. He kept Bob Gates as his Defense Secretary, for Christ's sake! I sure as fuck

didn't vote for that Eichmann when I voted for Obama in 2008.

[Doctor_J]

54. His whole cabinet was Turd Way

[Erose999]

83. Indeed. Arne fuckin' Duncan, Emmanuel, Gates, and the rest were all Turdwayers. All his appointees

were Turd Way scum.

[Cal33]

57. And all the Wall Streeters he employed to lead his Treasury Dep't, including

the one he would have nominated about a year ago, if it weren't for
Elizabeth Warren's strongly speaking up against him.

[ieoeja]

72. DWS and Rahm both appeared to me to be a way of reaching out to the Clinton camp.

In addition to giving Hillary a State Department stripped of its most important responsibility -- Special Envoy to the Middle East reported directly to the White House during Hillary's tenure; it was restored to State the second Kerry was sworn in which pretty much shows us what Obama really thought of Hillary -- I think he appointed those two.

For Treasury he appointed a bunch of people who had the exact opposite views he holds on economic matters. Obama's biggest mistake was when he said, "but I am not an expert on economic matters." Because he instead went with the best resumes. Problem is, the best resumes are rightwing Harvard MBAs working on Wall Street.

Last I knew the only colleges offering a degree in National Security were Christian Dominionist colleges. Some day in the future we are going to see a president decide to only appoint people to the Pentagon who have a degree in National Security. That won't make the president a Christian Dominionist. It will just mean s/he is unaware.

I think Obama is an unwitting tool of the Third Way.

[MADem]

140. Rahm disappointed HRC by refusing to endorse in 08. He was a CHICAGO guy.

He had feet in both camps. At best, he was an accidental "bridger." But he brought Chicago and IL home for BHO. That's what got him the "coveted advisor" COS gig--not any attempt at rapprochement with Clinton. She wasn't stupid--she saw the landscape, she made her accommodations. She was an adult despite disappointment, and she turned her misfortune into some of the most profound resume any POTUS candidate has ever enjoyed.

[silverweb]

18. Agreed.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Sometimes I think he has or has had a gun to his head (perhaps figuratively, perhaps personal threats, perhaps threats to his family) in order to force him.

I don't believe the Barack Obama we first elected would push policies like promoting fracking, oil exploration, and the TPP without such threats.

[Art_from_Ark]

24. During the campaign, he had more praise for Reagan than for any Democratic icon

He even called himself a "moderate '80s Republican", although the policies he attributed to Republicans of that era were actually policies of Democrats of that era. So I don't think he needed any threats to promote fracking, oil exploration, and the TPP. I think he was probably hand-picked by the DNC from the very start precisely because he would promote those things. To me, that helps to explain his meteoric rise from a virtual unknown to the presidency. And I think that can also help to explain why so many Clinton bashers back then are now die-hard Clinton supporters/Bernie bashers-- the DNC has decided that it is, now, Hillary's turn, and there's no way they want Bernie upsetting their apple cart.

[silverweb]

27. i see your point.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]However, I always saw that tone as his way of reaching out to moderate Republicans (which I thought still existed at the time) to try to make them feel that everybody would be represented.

He has achieved a great deal of good in his years as President, despite relentless obstruction and opposition. Looking at his past, I'm very reluctant to believe that he could have been just a willing pawn of the oligarchy all along. I think a great deal of pressure was brought to bear and I still can't rule out the possibility of threats.

[Art_from_Ark]

29. From my perspective, I don't think he's accomplished all that much

He certainly didn't push for single-payer or even a public option like he said he would. Instead, he came up with a Philippine-style class-based private-sector health insurance system that is next to worthless for a lot of people. He also pushed for "clean coal" (if ever such an animal existed), and was slow to react to BP's oil disaster in the Gulf of Mexico. He also was pushing the TPP long before it became public knowledge, and took forever to finally come out against the Keystone pipeline (after it became clear that low oil prices, as well as new governments in Alberta and Ottawa, would make the project extremely cost-ineffective). Also, he did not have to appoint the so-called "Catfood Commission" that was headed by people who were opposed to Social Security, and he did not have to favor "chained CPI". Moreover, for elderly people to qualify for extended SS benefits, they can't receive any financial assistance from family members or have savings over a small, piddling amount.

And for me, personally, as an expat, the requirements for making financial disclosures to the government are becoming more alarming. For example, American expats are the only expats who have to file income tax returns for their home country. Now, they also have to report details of all bank and brokerage accounts, and cannot even apply for life insurance in their country of residence anymore without having to give a their American taxpayer ID to their local insurance company. This only applies to Americans, no other nationalities.

[silverweb]

81. I didn't know that about expats!

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Is all that new? I lived in Mexico for a few years a while back. However, I was near the border and maintained an address, on-line job, banking, and everything else in the U.S., so I didn't have to deal with any of what you describe (except tax returns, which I just assumed I had to file since I worked for a U.S. company).

You name a few good examples of things Obama flubbed - or was pressured into compromising on in order to get anything at all done - and I agree on those. However, I've learned from someone I know very well - who is a legislative assistant and at least as liberal as I am - that things are never quite as simple or black-and-white as they appear.

While there have been some significant disappointments, let's give the man credit that is his due. Here's one good list that I believe shows his good far outweighs any disappointments: 309 Obama accomplishments with citations.

Anyway, have to run... very busy day today. You have a good one!


[font color="purple"]Go, Bernie!

[hopemountain]

21. the look on his face the day after his inauguration

and first presidential briefing in office was very telling.

he has accomplished so much on social issues, played a faking game to recognize climate change, but when it comes to changes on wall street and holding back rampant, greedy corporate interests - our president has definitely been cobbled. that briefing must have been at the crossroads.

[Doctor_J]

53. No one forced him into TPP

[Marr]

94. I think that's way too generous. I remember hearing one of Obama's professors talking about him.

He said that he'd always assumed Obama was a Republican, judging from the positions he took in class. He was surprised to see him running as a Democrat.

I think Obama is just a very 1%-first kind of guy. He's a trickle down guy. He's a corporate guy. That's why he got support to run in the first place.

[yourout]

2. Hell yes.....TPP alone will earn you that status.

[Omaha Steve]

121. ^^^ THIS ^^^

[cantbeserious]

5. Absolutely - Without Doubt - Without Question - TPP - Drone War ...

eom

[hifiguy]

111. Don't forget the Cat Food Commission.

That was a real beaut.

[Quackers]

6. He's done things that I don't like but I don't think I would go that far. NT

[Dem2]

7. I feel like I need a tin foil hat

All the posts about the 3rd way are causing me to research this group that 99.9% of the people in this country have never heard of. Am I being recruited by the 3rd way?

[VanillaRhapsody]

8. Amazing isn't it?

[cui bono]

14. Don't worry.

You'll never get in with a 2 in your name.

[zipplewrath]

82. Can't name 3 cabinent members

99.9% of the country would struggle name three cabinet members, that's hardly a measure of anything on a political junkie site like this.

[Dem2]

88. If by political junkies, you mean people who are good at name calling

[zipplewrath]

119. Not exactly

I think I'm referring to people who spend way too much time on a political site that reaches a minuscule number of people.

[Dem2]

120. Well, I do agree with that sentiment

[MADem]

141. I'd advise an aluminium colander lined with heavy duty tin foil!!!

There's a lot of woo bouncing around up in here!

[Recursion]

9. The group or the political philosophy?

The group? No.

The broader political philosophy? Somewhat, though in some ways he represents a break from it, too.

[JonLeibowitz]

10. No but I believe that his circle of advisors is stacked with them

Remember that his biggest problem was a lack of experience, and he was likely influenced quite a bit by the party about who he must have as his advisor. I think he is still a true believer but his progressive agenda has been stymied by washington politicking.

Perhaps even forced into choosing a former opponent as SoS.

[Hydra]

11. Yes, but he doesn't like to be associated with it

He has called himself a New Dem, Post Partisan, and even a Moderate Republican. While he is certainly 3rd Way by his policies and views, what strikes me most about what he's said is that I don't think he actually wants to be a Democrat in any sense of the word.

Why don't our establishment and leadership like the people of America anymore?

[cui bono]

13. Yeah, but moderate Republican is pretty much Third Way by definition.

[VanillaRhapsody]

76. Well WE know who is REALLY the NEW Democrat...

don't we??

[Hydra]

123. Indeed we do!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democrats#Barack_Obama_as_a_New_Democrat

http://www.politico.com/story/2009/03/obama-i-am-a-new-democrat-019862#ixzz3o9jykSUe

“I am a New Democrat,” he told the New Democrat Coalition, according to two sources at the White House session.


So...will we be setting up an official rule that what a person says cannot ever apply to them? I've noticed you and the other Team Hillary members seem to favor that idea.

[VanillaRhapsody]

124. How about one that just said...

"I am a Democrat Now" two weeks ago???

That's pretty new!

[ZombieHorde]

16. Few politicians are ideal matches for any political label,

but I think President Obama is close to third way politics.

[zalinda]

19. Absolutely

And, one of the questions that has been left unasked is......why didn't he, or has he, gone after police violence instead of hunting down and destroying legal marijuana stores?

Z

[haikugal]

33. And whistleblowers...

[ibegurpard]

20. absolutely

[noiretextatique]

22. yes, even though he is black

he admits it. why is this even questioned? do you want to be delusional?

[Scootaloo]

23. Not really.

He's a centrist, with liberal tendencies. The third way is old-fashioned conservative.

[Art_from_Ark]

25. "Old-fashined conservative?"

You mean, like "moderate '80s Republican"?

[hifiguy]

98. The Turd Way is an umbrella

for what used to be called "liberal" Republicans.

The Democratic Party was sold to them by Al From and the Clintons when they could no longer stand to be under the same roof as the xenophobes and cave-orc jebus wheezers focused on other people's genitals and prepping for Rupture.

They wanted no part of the know-nothing base of the Repigs but remained welded at the hip to Reagan/Thatcher/Friedman economics and its dedication to anti-democratic rule by and for the oligarchy. At least that's how I connect the dots.

[MADem]

26. On DU, "Third Wayer" is a term used to describe anyone that a subset here does not like.

It's a meaningless, bullshit term.

People who are "Third Wayers" one day suddenly become "cool people" if they endorse the right candidate, or say the right thing, to please the cheerleaders who use that catch phrase as an all purpose denigrator.

[bvf]

32. Do you have an example or two

where the term was misused, in your understanding?

[Bluenorthwest]

41. I've got one that dings 'both sides' on DU for shallow understanding of the whole thing. Bernie

introduced a Bill in the Senate to remove marijuana from the schedule of controlled substances, allowing States to regulate as they wish.
One one side the Hillary folks were claiming Bernie was grandstanding by making a radical gesture that could not possibly go anywhere. It was 'Bernie's Bill' and 'a waste of time' and 'typical progressive wheel spinning'.
But the House version of that bill was introduced first in 2013 then in March of this year by Rep Jared Polis of Colorado. Polis is a co-chair of Third Way. His House bill has 18 co-sponsors.

This means Bernie did not make this bill up to get attention AND that Third Way Democrats, while not my favorite brand of Democrats, are just moderate Democrats and some of them have some good objectives. Bernie's Pot Grandstanding Bill is also Third Way Jared's Pot Bill.

Politics. If you don't understand the realities, you can't be effective as an agent of change.

Thread in which no one on any side had any idea who had been advancing what:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251786367

[bvf]

112. Yeah, I noticed you didn't get a response

on your post in that thread. Information seemingly out of left field that threw many for a loop.

[MADem]

58. There's a wee box in the right hand upper corner--type the phrase in there, and all will be revealed

to you!

[bvf]

100. The operative phrase here is

"in your understanding."

[JI7]

35. like tulsi gabbard

[MADem]

60. She's a very good example of "enemy of my enemy"--certainly. nt

[ileus]

37. You get the BPOTT award.

Best post of the thread.

[Fred Sanders]

55. Code phrase for "any sub-human not agreeing 100% with Sanders", which includes Obama, apparently.

And then the strawman beatdown can begin.

[redstateblues]

129. they also use neo liberal, corporatist, DINO, republican lite

Did I miss any?

[Fred Sanders]

138. Can we use "Looney Left"? Just the one phrase will do!

[VanillaRhapsody]

103. Everyone under the bus is Thirdway now...

[MADem]

104. And "Thirdwayers" who say things that some people like get a dispensation....

It's the craziest thing!

[VanillaRhapsody]

105. Funny whe 45 members of the Progressive Caucus

Have endorsed her.....i guess they will have to change the name of the biggest caucus in the House

[redstateblues]

130. Any elected official who doesn't endorse bernie

is a scary Third Wayer

[MADem]

139. The "Not Progressive Enough to Feel That Bern" Caucus!

The way he stuffed Obama under the bus--and then had the brass gonads to try and DENY it on ABC--is priceless.

He's a lousy politician. He's not "special." He's not a good liar, even!

:large

[Number23]

108. Remember when Corey Booker made those vaguely nice comments about Sanders??

That was EASILY one of the most hilarious moments for me on this web site.

The SAME CROWD that screamed that the Third Way!! Thrid Way!1one was responsible for everything from hang nails to global warming and that Corey Booker was Satan's love child suddenly came roaring out of nowhere to shower him with praise and loving kisses.

And what he said was not in any way even CLOSE to an endorsement of Sanders. It was something like "yeah, he's pretty good on civil rights" and that was all it took. It was HILARIOUS.

Personally, I think this poll needs a third or even fourth option. A "who gives the first shit" option and a "I have no idea what the Third Way!!one THIRD WAY!!one!1 is and give less than a shit" option.

[MADem]

109. Ha ha ha -- so TRUE! nt

[redstateblues]

131. It's comical how Third Way on DU has become this shadowy Blacklist

cabal that runs both parties.

[Dem2]

142. It does appear this way

It's on par with "corporatist" and several other catch-all phrases used to negatively tag certain posters/candidates.

[MADem]

143. Many people use the term without understanding what it means.

I can understand how this happens--when I was a small child, I thought "civilian" was a dirty word.

I grew up and came to know better--you'd think people would do their homework, though, before they toss around their easy labels.

[6chars]

28. varies by issue

[davidpdx]

30. No, and while he has done many great things

there are somethings like TPP that I disagree with him.

[Scuba]

31. Rahm Emmanual, Larry Summers, Tim Geithner, Eric Holder, TPP, drones, etc., etc.

Yeah, he's a Third Wayer.

[randome]

34. Labels suck. Obama is one of the finest Presidents we will ever see.

Unless you're a professional historian, trying to categorize an individual contributes nothing.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

[Erose999]

85. Most people only live to see what, a dozen presidents, at the most? My dad lived to see FDR. So far

I've only had 5 to choose from. And 3 of them were GOP. One of them was George W. Bush. Obama's hands down the best, but that's not saying much given rest of the field.

Will I live to see a president FDR? Probably not, the way things are going.

[redstateblues]

132. damn right. I'm 67 and I've lived through

quite a few presidencies

[TM99]

36. Absolutely.

He admits it. From stating he is a 1980's Republican to calling himself a New Dem.

Every economic and social policy has been right from the DLC/Third Way/Neoliberalism handbook.

There is no question that he was marketed in the campaign as a traditional FDR progressive Democrat but has governed as a neoliberal New Dem.

[BlueCaliDem]

39. A resounding NO. He's the first sitting U.S. president to be featured on a gay magazine - for his

part in this fight for equal rights.

"but there’s no question that without the active engagement of the 44th president of the United States, who has made securing the rights of LGBT Americans a fundamental part of his legacy, we’d still be working to fulfill that dream."

Yes, there’s work to be done — we are still waiting for Congress to pass comprehensive federal LGBT protections, for a start — but whichever way you look at it, this president and his administration have ushered extraordinary change into the lives of LGBT Americans. For someone who at first seemed coy, even awkward, on the subject, President Obama’s evolution on marriage equality has been something to behold. He came to office reiterating that marriage was an institution reserved for a man and a woman, and continued to hold that line throughout most of his first term, even while advancing other important legislation, including the repeal of “don’t ask, don’t tell.” Other signal achievements included an order prohibiting federal contractors from discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity, passage of the first federal LGBT law in the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, encouraging the end to a ban on transgender military service, and the ongoing effort to create a more diverse judiciary. His nomination of Eric Fanning to be secretary of the Army, if successful, will make him the first openly gay head of a military branch.

Yet even as polls suggested that a growing majority of Americans supported same-sex unions, many of us were losing faith that the president would join their ranks. His public conversion, when it came on May 9, 2012, telegraphed just how far the country had moved, and was one that had the encouragement of two important women in his life: the first lady and his senior advisor, Valerie Jarrett. It took a few more years for the president to agree that marriage equality was a constitutional matter, rather than one left up to the states, but by November 2012, Americans were electing the nation’s first pro-gay marriage president. It was an extraordinary contrast to eight years earlier, when President Bush exploited fears of gay marriage to help secure a second term.

From that moment, the wind has been in our sails. Obama’s re-election was followed by two Supreme Court decisions in June 2013: United States v. Windsor, which struck down the Defense of Marriage Act, and Hollingsworth v. Perry, which led to the annulling of California’s Proposition 8. In March this year, as the Supreme Court prepared to hear arguments on Obergefell v. Hodges, lawyers for the Justice Department filed a brief arguing that state bans on same-sex marriage were unconstitutional, likening them to prohibitions on interracial marriage.

When he was sworn in on January 20, 2009, there were two states where same-sex marriage was legal. Today it is a right nationwide. Many share credit for what has transpired, but there’s no question that without the active engagement of the 44th president of the United States, who has made securing the rights of LGBT Americans a fundamental part of his legacy, we’d still be working to fulfill that dream. On this issue, among many others, he is truly a great American.
http://www.out.com/out100-2015/2015/11/10/out100-president-barack-obama-ally-year

I seriously doubt that a "third-way Dem" would have taken the time and effort to make the above a reality at any time in his two terms.

President Obama is a pragmatic progressive: a progressive who gets things done for the country. And for those who believe he's not "left" enough for their tastes, they should remember that the United States is a huge country that is more centrist than ultra-Left.

[daybranch]

42. supporting racial, gender, or sexual orientation equality does not define one as a progressive,

nor does it identify you as third way or neoliberal. The distinction being a progressive and third way or neoliberalm is your support for corporations and the very rich to run the country/ Only Bernie or Maybe O malley are progressives. Hillary clearly is funded by and works for the rich as evidenced by her stand on issues including a living wage and on Citizens United.
Go Bernie!

[Bluenorthwest]

45. Not supporting such equality however does define one as a regressive, a conservative,

an authoritarian. So six of one, half dozen of the other.

[BlueCaliDem]

80. He wasn't just "supporting it". He fought to make gender equality LAW of the land, either by

pushing a bill through Congress in order to repeal DADT, or not defending DOMA as lawsuits moved forward to overturn it. You need to read the article in order to see just exactly what he's done in order to bring gender equality to a reality. That's progress. That's what progressives do.

The distinction being a progressive and third way or neoliberalm is your support for corporations and the very rich to run the country

Is Lockheed Martin a corporation? Why yes, yes it is. And they are also part of the MiC and the manufacturers of the unnecessarily expensive (to the tune of trillions of taxpayer money) but failed F-35. Guess who supports them? That's right. Bernie Sanders. So by your definition, would that make him a third wayer and neo-liberal, too?

[djean111]

44. The Third Way method is to trumpet social issues that cost them nothing, and to push Conservative

economics issues. Sort of like - triangulation. Choosing Rick Warren to give the convocation, then standing up - eventually - for gay marriage, then putting Chained CPI on the table, and killing any chance of single payer or public option, or whatever.

[Bluenorthwest]

46. The recent expansion of Social Securithy benefits to apply equally to same sex couples cost plenty

and represents a huge gain in economic equality where in the past your laws literally imposed drastic income inequality on same sex couples.
Third Way, they had nothing to do with it, they did not lead, they followed, exploited and used. But this bullshit meme than 'social issues' are not related to economic issues is a demonstration that straight people have not really come to understand what they had been doing to us all those years.

[geek tragedy]

49. Congress killed the public option by not voting for it.

Single payer was never a possibility for reasons that go well beyond Obama.

[Art_from_Ark]

69. When did Congress vote on the public option?

[hifiguy]

113. Never.

Because it was taken off the table by someone. The same guy who invited Big Pharma and Big Insurance to write most of the ADA, IIRC. Who could that have been?

[Art_from_Ark]

115. I'm thinking it was some Democratic senator

from one of those northern Oil Patch states

[randys1]

102. No electable white candidate in 2008 or 2012 could have been a fraction of the success this man

has been.

From either party.

He rescued this racist country, in spite of itself.

[BlueCaliDem]

122. I agree. He's been one of America's most transformative presidents, and he's been the

best president of my lifetime.

I will miss him like you wouldn't believe, randys1.

[m-lekktor]

43. yes. nt

[Doctor_J]

47. Where are the "No" votes coming from?

1. He calls himself an 80's moderate republican. The DLC/Turd Way was created expressly to compete with 80s moderate Republicans
2. He fought for and passed the Gingrinch/Heritage Foundation for-profit healthcare system
3. He fought for and passed "NAFTA on steroids"
4. He appeared on Fox "news" and begged O'Reilly not to call him a liberal
5. He's in favor of fracking and ANWR drilling
6. He's done nothing to bring unions back to the party
7. His cabinet was made up of DLCers and Wall Street folks
8. He offered to cut social security
9. He believes in charter schools and Race To The Bottom

I understand why a lot of people like him. But don't try to make him something he's not.

[geek tragedy]

48. Third wayer means anyone to the right of Bernie Sanders at DU

In the real works no he's not. He's extremely partisan.

[MohRokTah]

50. Barack Obama is the most liberal president in US history. eom

[cascadiance]

59. Typical propaganda statement with NO substantive detail!

What "poll" are you citing here? What is "most liberal" and how is it substantively defined? I remember a corporate poll a while back that tried to make Schumer to be tied as being the "most liberal" senator which I recall was mostly measured about the degree he voted with the majority of Democrats on all of his votes in the party, as if when so many senators are compromised these days, that how a majority votes measures what is most liberal. I wonder if that same poll would say that now with his stance on the Iran bill recently.

[MohRokTah]

62. It's a fact, Barack Obama is the most liberal president in US history. eom

[Comrade Grumpy]

63. You should learn the difference between facts and opinions. n/t

[MohRokTah]

68. It is undeniable that Barack Obama is the most liberal president in US history.

Certainly, there have been more liberal Governors, Senators, Congresspersons, and other elected officials, but there has never been a president as liberal as Barack Obama.

[cascadiance]

70. Then I can respond that Bernie Sanders is the most progressive senator on capitol hill IS A FACT!!!

And using your logic, you can't argue with me either, since with your logic, just making a statement is what makes it a fact. Or is somehow YOUR statement fact and the rest of our statements not facts? Please explain that logic if that be the case and what makes you God...

[MohRokTah]

71. I would go further.

Bernie Sanders is the most progressive Senator in US history.

[redstateblues]

134. I agree

[jeff47]

78. LBJ, FDR, Wilson, and a whole lot of other presidents would disagree. (nt)

[MFrohike]

116. Lyndon Johnson called

He asked me to tell you that history didn't start on January 20, 2009.

[tazkcmo]

51. If he's not

He sure does a good job imitating one.

[Rex]

52. .

[PufPuf23]

56. The folks that voted "no" in this thread are clueless or something else.

POTUS Obama has said he was a New Democrat.

Most of his appointments and policies have been Third Way.

etc.

Hillary Clinton is also Third Way.

[geek tragedy]

87. or maybe you don't know everything. nt

[PufPuf23]

89. Seems some heavy denial is going on.

Of course I do not know everything.

POTUS Obama says he is a New Democrat.

The initial cabinet appointed by POTUS Obama was mostly New Democrats.

Many of the policies promoted by the Obama Whitehouse have been New Democratic / Third Way / Neoliberal in nature.

Hillary Clinton is a Third Way politician as well.

Why deny the obvious?

[geek tragedy]

90. If you mean his policies are to the right of Bernie Sanders, then you are correct.

The social safety net has been greatly expanded. the tax burden has been shifted towards the 1%. Climate action, GLBT civil rights, etc etc.

He has not been uniformly left wing, but that does not make him Al From.

[PufPuf23]

91. POTUS Obama has positive accomplishments. Results and policies are not monolithic.

Some are hand in hand with Third Way political philosophy and some are not.

Certainly much preferable to GOP or Libertarian or even HRC for the last 7 years.

POTUS Obama self-identifies as a "New Democrat".

Most of his cabinet appointments self-identify as New Democrats.

DWS leading the DNC is New Democrat.

Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton identify as New Democrats.

That is the question of this OP.

Why the denial?

[geek tragedy]

92. That Obama told a group of moderate Democrats he's one of them means he's

a politician.

Hillary Clinton calls herself a progressive, does that make her a progressive?

Third Way, the actual group, is not a partisan Democratic group.

[Warren Stupidity]

107. They are once again projecting what they think they support onto the establishment candidate.

BOG->HRC. They are the Charlie Brown to Lucy's football.

[redstateblues]

135. Folks on DU use Third Way as a straw man

to feed their victimhood

[Tommy_Carcetti]

61. I consider "Third Way" to be an obnoxious Strawman term thrown out by obnoxious people...

....and forced into situations where it ought not to apply.

Yes, I know it's an actual term. But it's just so overused and my eyes can't help but roll up whenever someone throws it around.

[Bradical79]

67. Yeah, I can see that

I know what's meant by "third way" but I really don't know anything about the actual Third Way think tank policies other than being "centerist". I actually didn't know people were talking about an actual organization when I first encountered it :-P

[cascadiance]

73. Yep, Third Way the organization is as a "third way" much as the "Progressive Policy Institute"...

Third Wayers started is "progressive". This group is known to use semantic terms to try and appeal to those who might be attracted to them in to thinking the organization's objectives are somehow a "third way" to what is going on in Washington that people want, but what this organization DOES NOT REPRESENT, or that this group that they started is "progressive" the way people want a group to be which also it is not!

It is typical the way corporate owned Washington now is using words like these phrases and "far left" to warp the discussion by trying to make their application meaningless by applying them to entities that aren't really what most people have wanted these terms to be applied to.

The term "centrist" has also been abused as well, where a better term for these sets of individuals are "corporatist", since many of them might be flexible and negotiable on social issues, but are pretty rigid in supporting the narrow minority of corporate elites on top on certain financial and control issues that affect the elite's power. Then they are anything BUT "centrist" in what most people think of the definition of that word.

[Doctor_J]

74. Did you read reply 47?

Honestly, it's not that difficult or nebulous

[Number23]

110. + a million billion trillion

an obnoxious Strawman term thrown out by obnoxious people...

[Blue_Tires]

64. What brought this on, might I ask?

[Nye Bevan]

75. Because something doesn't compute.

In general, DU seems to like President Obama but hate the "Third Way". But based on this poll, most of DU would seem to believe that President Obama is a "Third Wayer" and so deserves to be hated.

I guess a lot of DUers strongly dislike President Obama but don't want to say it directly. Instead they say "I hate Third Wayers" and even "Third Wayers are worse than Republicans", and then claim that the President is a "Third Wayer".

[jeff47]

79. Life is not as black-and-white as you'd like to make it.

Obama's done/is doing some good things.
Obama's done/is doing some bad things.

Saying the former does not make the latter impossible, and vice-versa.

[Nye Bevan]

84. I think you're right and that labeling someone a "Third-Wayer"

is kind of small-minded and simplistic.

[jeff47]

86. No, the error is thinking "Third way" is conservative in the same way as Republicans.

"Third Way" Democrats are economically conservative and socially liberal. For example, support for LGBT rights is entirely consistent with Third Way philosophy, as is support for the TPP.

The oversimplification is to claim there's only two baskets, "Liberal" and "Conservative".

Obama has said that he was a "New Democrat", one of the synonyms for this kind of Democrat, along with Third Way and DLC. Why should we not take him at his word?

[Bradical79]

65. I knew that when I voted for him in the general

Voted for Hillary in the primaries. He was known to me as a "pragmatic compromiser" which I think I'd picked up from some article at the time.

[NaturalHigh]

66. I think he cares a lot more about Wall Street than he cares about working people.

[Rebkeh]

77. Yes and no

Yes. I think he plays the cards he is dealt and makes strategic decisions for the long, long run. He knows he has to be willing to lose a few battles to win a war, he can only do so much as one man from within in the beltway. He has to make deals, he is not a dictator. I don't judge him too harshly on the bad decisions because he knows better than I what's happening in the grand scheme of things. I still trust him, though he is not nearly liberal enough for my personal tastes.

However, I wouldn't classify him as loyal to Third Way, so no.

And let's not forget the crisis he inherited and the Congress he had to deal with. I suspect he had to choose between the TPP and XL pipeline.

He was the right person at the time but times have changed since then. We need Bernie now.

[randys1]

93. Wow, these results are stunning...almost sickening

[floriduck]

95. He became one as soon as he

brought Larry Summers into the mix. He was already on his way with Tim Geitner on board.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

96. Yes. He's just not as adept at triangulating as the Clintons.

Which is to say that he's not as adept at saying that right leaning policies are liberal.

[hifiguy]

97. Unquestionably yes.

He is clearly a convinced believer in Reagan/Thatcher/Friedman economics but moderate on "social" issues.

Which is pretty much the definition of a Turd Wayer.

[bobthedrummer]

99. I voted Pass, he's got alot of them around though. Here's a primer on Third Way fwiw today.

It's a repost of a thread from March 2008. I think he's very, very shady-and I voted for him twice. In 2008 I was supporting Dennis Kucinich, despite the opposition. We urgently need a Department of Peace, don't we?

Inconvenient truths about the New Democrats, the Third Way, Democratic Leadership Council, etc.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026904786

[Romulox]

101. TPP alone qualifies him. nt

[Warren Stupidity]

106. He ran both campaigns as a center-right Democrat.

His administration has been exactly that. Those of us who listened to what he had to say rather than projecting our hopes onto him knew exactly who and what we were voting for.

[craigmatic]

114. Hard to say. If we were talking Bill I'd say he's about 95% third way but Obama is about 50%

[MineralMan]

117. This poll has jumped the megalodon.

That is all. It has defined the site, and not in a good way. That's my opinion.

[redstateblues]

137. DU represents a tiny sliver of the electorate

I'd say it's 90-10 in favor of Sanders on this site. A lot of Hillary supporters have been driven off by the nastiness of bernie's supporters.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

118. Of course he is

Oh well...

[ozone_man]

125. We saw it coming a long way ago.

It was the hope and change lingo, coupled with top ten contributors being Wall Street banks.
Rinse and repeat for Hillary.

[darkangel218]

126. The poll results so far, speak for themselves.

[redstateblues]

136. It definitely mirrors the Sanders Clinton

split on DU which fortunately for HRC is not a reflection of the real world. Bernie has hit his ceiling where it really matters.

[Egnever]

127. Such delicious flypaper.

[redstateblues]

128. Third Way is a straw man for the Obama Hillary haters

Most likely a bunch of bitter Naderites

[PowerToThePeople]

133. One of many examples: How the Obama administration protected Wall Street from prosecutions

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/23/untouchables-wall-street-prosecutions-obama

PBS' Frontline program on Tuesday night broadcast a new one-hour report on one of the greatest and most shameful failings of the Obama administration: the lack of even a single arrest or prosecution of any senior Wall Street banker for the systemic fraud that precipitated the 2008 financial crisis: a crisis from which millions of people around the world are still suffering. What this program particularly demonstrated was that the Obama justice department, in particular the Chief of its Criminal Division, Lanny Breuer, never even tried to hold the high-level criminals accountable.

What Obama justice officials did instead is exactly what they did in the face of high-level Bush era crimes of torture and warrantless eavesdropping: namely, acted to protect the most powerful factions in the society in the face of overwhelming evidence of serious criminality. Indeed, financial elites were not only vested with immunity for their fraud, but thrived as a result of it, even as ordinary Americans continue to suffer the effects of that crisis.

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