Heartbreaking: Here's what a U.S. soldier said when asked to justify the war on terror

[JohnyCanuck]

November 5, 2015 by Sophie McAdam

"You grew up wanting so bad to be Luke Skywalker, but you realize that you were basically a Stormtrooper, a faceless, nameless rifleman, carrying a spear for empire, and you start to accept the startlingly obvious truth that these are people like you."


When a Reddit user posted an open question to U.S soldiers asking them how they justify their actions against innocent civilians abroad, he probably didn’t expect this candid response…

‘You kill. Watch friends die. It’s usually quick, almost never quiet, but for the rest of your life, when you remember sitting at the bar with them, they’re blown open. You picture the nights you spent downtown at Scruffy Murphy’s, but instead of the stupid hookah shell necklace, your boy’s jaw is blown off, and his left eye is ruined, and he’s screaming. You fight, you kill, you watch friends die, and you notice a distinct lack of change. You kick in doors and tell terrified women to sit on the floor while you and your friends ransack their home, tearing the place apart, because they might be hiding weapons. There is no reason to believe this house in particular is enemy, same for the next one, and the one after that, or the seven before; they just happened to be there, and maybe they had weapons. Probably not, they almost never did.’

The moving testimony is just a snippet from the refreshingly honest reply given by U.S soldier Daniel Crimmins when asked how military servicemen can be so “blasé” about drone strikes and other civilian deaths due to the ‘War On Terror’.

http://www.trueactivist.com/heartbreaking-heres-what-a-u-s-soldier-said-when-asked-to-justify-the-war-on-terror/

[SheilaT]

1. This is why I not only do NOT support our endless wars,

but I don't thank soldiers for their service.

[upaloopa]

17. So I was thinking the other day

I was drafted and sent to Vietnam. Does that make me a war monger?
So many here weren't put in that position or never will be.
Does that make them better people than me if they say they are against war?
On Wensday my facebook friends will thank me for keeping them safe. I don't think I kept them safe but they need to do that and I don't say anything to them.
I live with my memories of war and they will never know war.
So they can easily say thank you for your service and others who will never know war can say they oppose war.
We can't walk in each other's shoes after one if us wore boots in war.

[Wounded Bear]

25. I get it all the time...

when I wear one of my USMC hats. Usually, I just say "Thank you" and move on. I'll usually shake their hand if they offer it. If they are a vet, sometimes we'll chat a bit. If non-vet, I kind of brush them off that I never served in combat and others had it far worse than I.

I was lucky in that I never participated in combat, though there were some mildly dangerous situations (not much more than many civilian jobs, to be honest) and certainly stress.

I don't buy into a lot of the BS 'patriotism' pimped by various organizations obviously flashing alternative motivations for their displays, up to and including people flying flags from their cars and trucks. Whatever.

If I remember, maybe I'll go down to Applebee's for the free lunch, more to meet and greet with fellow vets than any other reason.
Other than that, I'm kind of cynical about all of the displays and shit. Seems too much about promoting more militarization and war-mongering by the MIC than any true memorialization of vets and casualties of war.

[Roy Rolling]

26. Vietnam

The Vietnam draftees were an honorable bunch. But when war profiteers sensed that ordinary Americans did not like kids coming home dead, they changed to an "all-volunteer" army. It wasn't a sense of duty, it was a job. So, another generation was fooled by these idiots who cause senseless wars for their own profit.

When the US entered World War 2 it was 19th IN THE WORLD in military readiness. And yet, when we joined the allies we geared up in three short years to win the war.

So why do we have to have the largest military in peace, larger that the other six largest countries combined?

It's easy: PROFIT.

[erronis]

41. Please, DU. Give me a way to upvote (or downvote) individual comments. This is a +++.

[ozone_man]

84. +1000's

That was very well stated. After Vietnam, the MIC got smart. It is one argument for reinstating the draft, as parents are more apt to think twice before voting for war.
Now we have essentially a mercenary army. Yes, it offers survivors benefits, education, etc. But, there is no counter to war better than a draft. So, do you want to gamble with your son's/daughter's survival?

[7962]

85. Why? Because usually no one else will step up unless we do.

Who would have stopped the slaughter in the Balkans? The EU? No, they were doing nothing. Who else could have stopped the certain fall of S korea? No one. Yes, many other countries joined, but without the US SK would be gone.
Russia wants desperately to take the mantle. But we've seen how they threaten the EU with energy cutoffs; do we really think they wont pull the same with us if they are the world power?
Regarding funding, all dollars arent equal. As a % of GDP we do not spend the most on the military.
I'm not going to apologize for having the strongest military when i consider the alternatives.

But after the folly of Iraq, it certainly will be harder to get other countries to join us in anything.

[nyabingi]

97. You're quite the belligerent neocon eh?

Who says there has to be a "world power"?

The US has done nothing with its "world power" status but threaten, kill, intimidate, and destroy the lives of millions around the globe, and you think that's a good thing? Our military has never gone into action to prevent massacres and genocides like you seem to think. As it stands now, we're allowing Israel and its disciples in the US pull us all into the abyss because we're millions of stupid Americans who are useful only for our soldiers and work potential.

[7962]

99. You dont think the Balkans was headed towards genocide? Really?

All the mass graves discovered after we went in and stopped it? It was not going to stop until WE stopped it. The massacres that were happening in Korea during that war? Hell, North Korea STILL massacres their own people.
I'm glad you're fine with Russia stepping into the middle east. I'm sure they'll achieve peace in no time at all, right?

And if you think I'm a "neocon", you obviously dont know the meaning of the word. I hollered against the Iraq invasion well before it ever happened. That was a neocons dream invasion

"Who says there has to be a world power?" Reality, thats "who". Thinking there can be a world where no country is more powerful than another is a nice fantasy, but it's not living in the real world.

[nyabingi]

100. We never intervene to stop massacres, and

you're really politically naive if you believe that lol. Any time the US gets involved militarily, it's in the interest of some very powerful people who view the world in economically strategic ways. Our involvement in Korea had nothing to do with preventing massacres, but to protect future profits by trying to prevent the spread of communism.

We "intervene" to stop one massacre, while carrying out (or aiding and abetting in) others elsewhere. We like massacres as long as they serve our long-term strategic interests. Long before Saddam Hussein was made Public Enemy #1, we were arming him and encouraging him to attack Iran, which he did with our assistance. His use of chemical weapons against the Iranians was a "good" massacre. Israel massacred thousands of defenseless Gazans last year, but that was a "good" massacre.

If you support our war against Syria, Libya, and our provocations against Russia, China, and Venezuela, then I can say with some certainty that you are a neocon and don't realize it. If you favor splitting Iraq and Syria into several smaller states then you are a neocon (a idea which Israel desires and has been floated by more than one neocon think tank in the US - see Michael O'Hanlon at the Brookings Institution, a neocon favorite).

There doesn't have to be a world with one dominant, bullying empire (which is what we have had since the fall of the USSR). We could try, at least once, to live together peacefully with respect and understanding.

[7962]

102. Yes we do. You ignore it because you want to. And you ignore the Balkans example.

What did we get out of the Balkans in the way of "profit"? And we were even helping stop the genocide of Muslims too, which they seem eager to forget.
Venezuela?? HA! I bet most of them WISH we would intervene!

[nyabingi]

104. Our intervention, especially when NATO is involved,

is always to serve unspoken strategic purposes other than simply preventing the loss of life.

We wanted to split (or "balkanize&quot the Balkans in order to lessen Russian influence in that region and bring some of them into the Western capitalist camp - the rulers of our world are constantly seeking new slaves to make their products cheaply and new areas for the extraction of profit. This is the same principle guiding our meddling in Ukraine - the new pro-Western Ukrainians will make good low-wage workers and the American elite can move in and profit (e.g., Joe Biden's son). Milosevic was too close to the Russians, and the Serbs fought against the Nazis during WWII, which is neocon history, was a sin. The Croats fought for the Nazis, so naturally we sided with them.

Any system which threatens the ability of the wealthy to exploit the poor and the natural resources of any given country for profit becomes an enemy. The rich, racist descendants of former Spanish colonists have always had the money and rule over the country, with most of the indigenous Indian and Black Venezuelans barely eking out a living, relegated to the dregs of society. Chavez changed that of course, and since the US has always backed the most racist, right-wing elements abroad, we immediately set out to undermine Chavez and his Bolivarian revolution.

I don't think you really understand how our government operates, 7962, because your understanding seems very simplistic and superficial. Or you may just like what we're doing.

[7962]

105. Chavez and Maduro have taken VZ into the worst economy in the world

We have nothing to do with their policies and failed "revolution". But if you seek to place blame on the US for the sorry state of VZ, then you are merely an apologist who cannot deal with reality. They seized private corporations, refuse to pay out money owed for services, squander their own massive resources, etc. Now they dont have a pot to piss in or any paper to wipe with afterwards. But its all OUR fault. Ridiculous. Yes, Chavez changed things all right. YAaay! Everyone is now equal! Equally miserable!
As for the Balkans, I guess you would have preferred to force the different ethnic groups to have stayed as "Czechoslovakia" instead of allowing them to make their own decisions? We have no products to speak of coming from this area.
And I guess you would have preferred to stay out and allow the Serbs to continue cleansing the entire area of all the OTHER ethnic groups?
Wow, you've not only drank the kool aid, you bathed in it!

[nyabingi]

106. Are you really not aware of the

subterfuge we've been pulling in Venezuela since the days of the Bush regime, continued under Obama? Are you really that naive? You can't back the most reactionary forces in Venezuela, encourage violent anti-government protests, vocally back a failed coup attempt, place sanctions on the country to destroy the economy, funnel hundreds of thousands of dollars to NGO's working to undermine their democracy, etc., and still say it's not our fault.

You frankly don't know enough of what's really going on in order to have a good, intelligent conservation. I'm being completely serious when I say that. You have a very "CNN", "MSNBC" understanding of the world, and that is not going to get it.

[7962]

107. Yes, YOU understand it all dont you? Ha.

It cant POSSIBLY be the incompetence of leadership causing VZ's problems, can it? The fall of the brutal regime of Maduro will be at the hands of the people who have suffered under the joke of "revolution". Soon enough they will rise up and turn their country around.
You're just one of the folks the RW LOVES to point out; those who blame ALL problems ANYWHERE in the world on the subterfuge of the mysterious US/CIA/Corporatists/Oligarchs, etc. Are we perfect and right all the time? Certainly not! But we are also certainly NOT the cause of the worlds troubles. ANd VZ is their own worst enemy.
Gee, if we'd only stayed out of the Korean War and let the North take over, things would be SO much better for all of them! If only we'd stayed out of the Balkans we'd be rid of all Muslims in that whole area of Europe and the great Serbia would rule fairly over whoever they didnt slaughter!
Its just sad that you really seem to believe all of it.

[nyabingi]

108. No I don't understand it all

but I understand a hell of a lot more than you do.

Chavez and Maduro were both elected democratically, enjoying the overwhelming support of the majority of Venezuelans who've benefited from the reforms they brought about. True democracy is anathema to our rulers, and they've been intent on punishing the people of Venezuela for their decisions ever since. These people whom you think will "rise up" tried that already, but they have no popular support among the people or the military, so their efforts failed and many of their coup plotters were convicted and jailed. These wealthy racists you adore will continue in their efforts to destroy their own country, but without popular support they have no chance. If these people want to return to power, they need to convince the majority of voters that their ideas are worth consideration. Instead, they plot with US-based NGO's and our State Department to gain power through violence. Not a good thing.

Yes, we're ruled by corporatists and their government-based allies (they're all the same group of people), all working together for their own benefit, not ours. If you get a chance, look up the activities of the USAID and look at where we have military bases planted around the globe. We're not the cause of all of the problems in the world, but contribute either directly or indirectly to the vast majority of them.

[7962]

109. But the people only benefitted for a short time. Thats always the problem.

When your solution is to take everything away from the rich and corporations, you soon end up with nothing to take.
And thats exactly what has happened to VZ. Compare them to countries like Norway or Denmark, who tax at a higher rate yet have some of the highest standards of living. Because they havent had a crusade against business. And VZ has more oil than anyone, yet sank into a cesspool long before the price of oil dropped. It was a shithole when oil was 100 a barrel, because of incompetence, not the US.
We have zero to do with the failure that is Venezuela. The govt nationalized industry and production, ceased payments to foreign companies who then quit doing business there. Which is exactly what ANYONE would do. Production falls, no one ships anything to them for fear of not getting paid and everyone suffers.
Yes, Chavez was elected because everyone was too naive to know what was coming and believed all the promises.
The problem is, those promises have a short shelf life and it ran out about 8 yrs ago.
If there is a free election, Maduro will be tossed in a landslide. But he's doing his best to jail all the opposition. And his cheerleaders here see absolutely nothing wrong with it. So, let them sleep in the bed they made until they tire of that bed being the streets.

[raouldukelives]

96. And it is frightening how many know and still go.

All one has to do is depress the economy enough to make assisting in waging war look pretty lucrative.

I haven't and doubt I will ever have reservations about the willingness of Americans to go to war to defend themselves, to defend America. In an instant.

It wouldn't be out of love for the flag, it wouldn't be out of love for corporate profits or Jesus or baseball, it would be because someone was attacking our home.

I sometimes wonder if the "enemy" we are fighting doesn't feel the same. It hurts me because I know in my heart he does.

[Bluenorthwest]

37. If I may offer the following definitions.

War Monger:
a sovereign or political leader or activist who encourages or advocates aggression or warfare toward other nations or groups.

Draftee:
a person conscripted for military service.

[SheilaT]

54. You were drafted. Every single soldier currently

serving is a volunteer. Huge difference.

The draft ended on January 27, 1973. The last draftee retired in 2011.

Ever since we started the several wars in the Mideast, every soldier who has gone there is a volunteer. I cannot thank someone for participating in the immoral, illegal wars we are waging across the world.

[rhett o rick]

61. And most of these "volunteers" do so because they were fooled to believe that it was either

their duty, or romantically dangerous. Some join because the Oligarchy has pushed them into poverty. Some say, it's a job.

Just because they volunteer doesn't not eliminate our responsibilities.

[SheilaT]

68. Nor does the reason they volunteered

absolve them from what they do.

[rhett o rick]

77. I agree. nm

[KittyWampus]

101. You are wrong. The majority do not sign up because of romance/duty/patriotism.

It has been called a "Poverty Draft".

Lutz’s study also looks at the history of participation of the three largest racial and ethnic groups in the military — whites, blacks and Latinos — and examined ethnicity, immigrant generation and socioeconomic status in relation to military service. It concluded that significant disparities exist only by socioeconomic status, finding “the all-volunteer force continues to see overrepresentation of the working and middle classes, with fewer incentives for upper class participation.”


snip

In 2011, a study by the Pew Research Center found that black women are enlisting in the military at far higher rates than are white or Hispanic women, and they now represent nearly a third of all the women in the armed forces. And women are joining the military in record numbers at the same time that the military is seeing less people enlist overall.

snip
The study, which utilized demographic data collected by the Defense Department, found that of the 167,000 enlisted women in the military, 31 percent are black, which is twice their percentage in the civilian female population. Black men represent about 16 percent of the male enlisted population, which is proportionally equal in the civilian population.

snip

Asch alluded to the fact that “the military tries to attract high school graduates who are looking for job training, good benefits and help with college tuition — and that a high percentage of black women fit that bill, as a possible explanation of the discovery.

“That is the group the military targets,” Asch said.

snip

The military also seems to be drawing recruits who have less education, as a recent report documented the percentage of new recruits entering the Army with a high school diploma dropped to a new low.

snip

“Once again, we’re staring at the painful story of young people with fewer options bearing the greatest burden,” Greg Speeter, the project’s executive director, told the newspaper.




http://www.mintpressnews.com/whos-joining-the-us-military-poor-women-and-minorities-targeted/43418/

[rhett o rick]

103. I agree this is a huge problem. But poverty isn't on the agenda of a Goldman-Sachs sponsored

administration. Poverty rates are inversely proportional to corp-profits. The billionaires don't care to fix poverty, in fact there goals of more and more wealth creates more poverty.

[arikara]

64. No, you're not a warmonger

Vietnam vets had it tougher than most any of the others I think.

I can honestly thank people like my father-in-law who served in WWII, came home with PTSD and died too young. I can thank people like you and an old boyfriend who also went to Vietnam, he often woke up in the night thinking he was in a listen post. And I can thank the old men who I used to pick up in the ambulance. No matter how short the ride to the hospital they always talked about their war experiences, which had been stuck on replay in their minds for decades.

These young ones though, I just don't feel any gratitude towards them for their service. I really don't think they are protecting our country or rather countries because I'm Canadian. I do have compassion for them and I get why so many join up. I've often heard it called an economic draft, its getting tougher for youth to get a good job with benefits and decent pension. One of my neighbours is a young woman who joined the Canadian navy for that reason. Now she's a single mother and when she goes back to work she can be deployed off on a ship for I think she said up to a year. Obviously she's dreading that, being on her own with a new baby.

Problem is, they ARE over somewhere murdering people in horrible ways. And I think there are too many who are crazy like some of the cops are today too. Blasting away randomly killing like its all just a video game or movie and "just following orders" is no excuse.

So anyhow I quietly won't wear a poppy anymore. I believe the poppy used to symbolize "never again", but now it seems to just glorify the endless wars that go on to feed the military industrial machine. I do however like to give a donation to the local Legion as they are always hard up for money.

[truedelphi]

69. But that is not the whole point of the OP -

the consideration of whether you and others who fought our recent warw are or are not war mongers. The point of the OP was that war hardens the human heart.

Certainly it hardens the hearts of many of those who fight the wars, hence the alcohol and drug abuse and sleepless nights once they have returned from war.

But a war hardens the entire culture that has supported the war. I remember when the Vietnam War finally ended, a friend of mine who was a principal at a Chicago area middle school said that fist fights and other forms of bullying tapered off.

My dad told me way back when I was all of nine years old almost the same damn thing said in the OP, except of course, his experience was World War II. And it is especially worth noting that most of the time, during World War ii, he and his platoon mates didn't need to go vicious on anyone else. They still engaged in the rules of war, trying to respect civilians and trying to keep prisoners of war safe. (Of course the 155 shell howitzers my dad fired off into the distance often killed civilians, but that is not the same thing as slamming people around in their own home and then hauling them off to Ab Gharib because, because Well, why exactly was that our policy over there? You tell me.)

You can read more about this here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025634110

[trof]

83. Current generations don't understand the draft.

It was this thing hanging over every young man's head.
In WWII, it was understandable. A national emergency and we needed young male bodies ASAP.

Ours was the Viet Nam generation.
That was way different.
An 'elective'..."war".

I found an out in the ANG, flying aircraft that I later learned were obsolete during the Korea 'conflict'.
Lucky me.

Neither of us kept the nation safe from anything.
But I do respect the shit that you had to go through.
Glad you made it.

[Victor_c3]

59. I get what you're saying

I'm sorry for unloading on you and I don't mean this to seem like an attack on you in any manner. If more people thought like you (including our representatives in government) then I wouldn't be in the place I am right now.

however, I hope you don't hold it against the individual Soldiers. I know if nobody shows up to fight a war that there'd be no war, but people join the military for different reasons.

I was born in 1980 and grew up I a right leaning household. My father missed Vietnam by about a year (so he never was in the military or fought in a war) and my grandfather was a WWII Infantryman and never talked about the war. I grew up playing with G.I. Joe and believing that the military was a tool that was a tool used to make the world a better place. I was 11 years old during the first gulf war and saw the sanitized pictures on CNN. I collected the Operation Desert Storm trading cards and ate that sort of thing up. I was 15 during the Dayton Peace Accord (that was when the UN mission in the Balkans was labeled a failure and NATO took over the operation) and I believed in the mission. I was 17 in 1997 when I joined the Army. As I wasn't 18, my parents had to sign a waiver to get me in. I went to basic training during the summer break between my junior and senior year of high school and then I received an Army ROTC scholarship. I just started my senior year of college when the attacks of September 11th occurred. Only a few days before I put in a request to be an Infantry Officer when I graduated college and became a 2nd Lieutenant.

I agreed with our response to September 11th at the time. I was a 21 year old kid and I had no real life experience. I joined the military for the altruistic reason to make the world a better place. My upbringing educated me that this was the reason for US involvement in various military expeditions.

I was doing a years worth of various training at Fort Benning, GA during the buildup and initiation of the war on Iraq. During the time I remember not understanding our focus on that country. I never for a second believed we should have gone into Iraq. I finished up at Fort Benning around May of 2003 and I remember seeing that the war was essentially over. I figured by the time I actually got assigned to a line unit that the war, at the worst, would be as intense as the police action in the Balkans. I still didn't believe in the war but I figured if I got deployed to Iraq that I'd stick to my ideals of making the world a better place.

Fast forward a few months and I was in Iraq in February 2004. We had no idea how intense the war was going to be in a few months and if you looked at pictures of me and my Soldiers, we were all having a great time oblivious to the danger and violence that was to ramp up in April and beyond. We lost our first Soldier in April and everything changed. Our attitudes changed and a level of anger started to ebb in me. The more violence I saw the more my ideals went out the window. I hated the war, I started to hate the Iraqi people, and I just wanted to get home. The more violence I became involved with beyond that point the less I even cared about going home.

For me, shooting and killing people brought out huge feelings of guilt and shame. It was easier to turn off the feelings of disgust and laugh at it than to face it for what it was. I didn't join the Army to become a killer or to be a monster, but that is exactly what I became. I hated waking up in the morning, I hated going on patrol, I relished the adrenaline rush of combat during the brief periods and then became overwhelmed with guilt afterward.

During the course of the 13 months I was deployed my platoon killed 46 people that I know of and wounded the best part of 100. I personally lost 5 Soldiers that were under my command.

I was back home by 6 March 2005 and I hated it. I stayed in the Army until 2007 and then attempted to live a normal civilian life. I did alright for about the first 4 or 5 months then everything started to go down hill for me . I started having all sorts of wonderful PTSD symptoms and, slowly over the years until June of 2014, I got worse and worse. On 25 June 2014 I attempted suicide after a fight with my wife. She called me a "killer and a coward" and I went bonkers. I ran to the basement and got a utility razorblade from my tool box, ran back up and proceeded to slash the shit out of my wrists and spray my wife with my blood. I did four deep cuts on my left wrists, switched the blade into my other hand so I could destroy my right wrists, managed one cut before my mangled hand dropped the blade. I intended to go for my neck next and that saved me. When you cut a major artery or vein the pressure is unbelievable. It was like a hose spraying blood everywhere. My wife, the walls, the ceiling, the floor was totally covered in blood. As I was doing a lap around the house to spray my blood over everything my oldest daughter (she was 5 at the time) came out of her room and looked at me. Up until that moment my next plan was to run into the woods, hide, and die before anyone could save me. However, when I saw my daughter I grabbed my left wrist and squeezed as much as hard as I could to slow the bleeding. I ran outside and started pacing and yelling at my wife about the war like a crazy person while I waited for the ambulance.

I've spent roughly 6 months out of the last 18 spending times in various psych wards and my daily life is hell. The number one reason I'm still alive and my wife sticks around is because my disability income is the sole financial support for my wife and kids.

I guess it's just karma coming back to get me which, when I look back at it all, seems incredibly unfair. I didn't join the Army to be a killer, but that is exactly what I became. I did everything right according to my upbringing. I joined the Army to make the world a better place instead I found myself to be the sucker.

Again, I'm sorry for unloading on you and I don't mean this to seem like an attack on you in any manner. If more people thought like you (including our representatives in government) then I wouldn't be in the place I am right now.

I hate it when people thank me for my military service. It is nothing but an area of pain and shame. I believe that an apology from those who supported those wars in more appropriate.

[arikara]

65. I'm so sorry for what you went through

I wish those warmongers, the ones who actually start the wars were the ones who had to fight in them.

I hope you have some light in your life.

[snort]

67. Good on you for unloading.

Keep doing it. Anywhere anytime, you do this. People need to hear this. Peace.

[The River]

72. I know how you feel.

A different lie and a different war but I survived. I went on to struggle through 38 years of PTSD until the VA made a diagnoses. The insanity of it all gives you two choices, go crazy or go numb. I did equal amounts of both. It made a normal life impossible. You adapt and overcome or you end up a statistic.

[renate]

73. You're a good person. It's why you're suffering so much now

If you weren't a good person, the things you had to do wouldn't bother you. You're a good person who would never, ever have done the things you were made to do, and been in situations that no human being should have to experience, and first the adrenaline rush and now the PTSD are your brain's way of trying to either cope or make sense of an impossible situation.

I hope that you are in a support group or getting some other kind of support at the VA or a vet center if your wife doesn't seem to understand what you are going through. I am so, so, so sorry that you are in so much pain.

[pinboy3niner]

93. I heard a top VA psychologist say exactly the same thing at a PTSD conference decades ago

He said that you have to be a pretty good person to be affected by PTSD. The gist was that you have to be a caring person to be hurt so much and to suffer so terribly.

There's also a very mistaken notion that people affected by PTSD are affected because they did horrible, inhumane things. Yet most of the guilts of PTSD sufferers are undeserved guilts. Like survivor's guilt--feeling guilty just for being alive when your comrades didn't make it. Something experienced also by innocent noncombatant civilians who have witnessed war or been its victims. PTSD also affects victims of rape and natural disasters, who certainly were not committing war crimes.

The public's understanding of PTSD still lags far behind the mental health community's.

[SheilaT]

88. Telling me your story isn't unloading. I absolutely don't feel attacked.

You told me your story, and it can't be easy to post something that personal on a public forum like this.

Even though I'm not one to thank a soldier for his service, I'm outraged that our soldiers, after being put through what they are, what you were put through, get back here with no real support of any kind. It's wrong. Beyond wrong. Instead of spending money on killing people, we should be spending much of that money helping out the men and women who've been traumatized as you were. As opposed to our military as I am, I don't believe in abandoning the men and women who serve, which unfortunately is exactly what so many Republicans who claim to support our troops do.

[Joey Liberal]

70. Can't agree with you

You can't blame the Soldier for the mistakes of Congress and in this case, George W. Bush. As a former Soldier myself, I think most of us joined to serve our country, for the adventure, and to improve ourselves. I always thank Soldiers for their service.

[Caretha]

90. I've been married to 2 men

who served in VN. You will be okay, just don't stop talking about it.

I know this sounds horrible, but I need to tell you this anyway...

This has been the way for the last 2000 years, but it wasn't always.

Things are changing, really. Love your self, you really are okay.

[Initech]

87. You should watch John Oliver from last night.

He took down the US Military's publicity wing because it was discovered that they were paying sports teams for what is essentially glorified product placement. Unfortunately there's no clip on YouTube yet so I can't link to it.

[polly7]

2. Yes, that is heartbreaking. And very powerful, I hope he has a lot of support in his life. nt.

[Fred Sanders]

3. How many warriors appear on TV news compared to their commanding Generals and politicians?

Because maybe this kind of imagary HAS to be suppressed just like the imagary of dead bodies of the same soldiers returned from Iraq had to be suppressed.

[bjobotts]

23. They fight to protect corporations not Americans

Brainwashed to believe they are protecting America's interests when they are in fact protecting American corporations who are profiteering off their lives and efforts. We need a department of peace which provides aid not weapons.

[The Wielding Truth]

92. " You go to war with the army you have". Inferring sit down and shut up!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53640-2004Dec9.html

At the meeting Spc. Thomas Wilson of the 278th asked, "Why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to uparmor our vehicles?"

[cantbeserious]

4. War - What's It Good For - Absolutely Nothing - Props To Edwin Starr

War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, y'all

Snip ...

[HassleCat]

5. Service members?

What about us? We created this "professional" military to do our dirty work and ask no questions. They're pretty well paid, and they can make good careers if they choose, and it's mostly interesting work, and we lavish praise on them and call them heroes, and we thank them for their service every time they turn around. But there's a downside. We expect them to go to places like Iraq and go house to house looking for terrorists. And we expect them not to object about what they do, not to question it, not to make noise about terrorizing civilians, not to mention the accidental killings and collateral damage. And we expect them not to have PTSD when they come home, and we certainly don't want to pay for a bigger VA health care system or better GI Bill benefits. We're doing it. They're just following orders, and the orders don't come from Hitler or Stalin or some strong arm dictator. The orders come from us.

[uppityperson]

7. Your post made me curious about their pay

http://www.goarmy.com/benefits/money/basic-pay-active-duty-soldiers.html
Sergeant with 6 yrs experience $32,814
Pfc $21,664. at 6 yrs $24,418

I agree with most of your post, got curious about the pretty well paid part.

[HassleCat]

9. It might not seem like much

It's not what you would call big money. Service members on their first enlistment get a paycheck, and that's about it. Once they get some time in, and gain a couple promotions, they start to get a little more money and some important benefits. I don't know if they still do this, but they used to have "proficiency pay" that gave some extra money to people with certain expertise. There are sometimes big reenlistment bonuses, depending on how badly they need you. There may be other pay and allowances for food, housing, etc. depending on the circumstances.

[sarge43]

18. US military pay scale, 2015

http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp

[Joey Liberal]

71. The pay is much better now than when I served

I would have re-upped for that kind of money .

[sarge43]

75. My first paycheck, post basic, $98.00. That's a month's worth.

But then, a pack of BX cigs, 25 cents.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

82. Case of beer on Navy base in Guam 1960 $1.50 - $2.00

[merrily]

31. There are things like free base housing, including for dependents (though not on active duty, of

course), great prices at the PX, possibly education, free medical care for you and your family, etc.

Before anyone jumps on me, no price compensates our troops for the risks they take. However, if we are talking pure money, a salary of $32K is not bad at all if your housing is free, your family's medical care is free, your food is relatively cheap, etc. And there is the ability to retire at a relatively early age and enter another field. So, looking at the salary figure alone does not tell even a bit of the story.

But, this is a tangent anyway.

[erronis]

42. Damn. That sounds like SOCIALISM! And WE CAN"T HAVE THAT in the USofA!

Merrily - I'm just piggybacking on your comment and not disagreeing.

The Armed Forces and Congress can have SOCIALISTIC programs but the plebes can't. Which god-in-hell decided this?

We don't want to pay people a decent wage that put their lives on the line (and I'll include local law enforcement with grave reservations) but we're willing to give them health insurance, free college tuition, cost-of-living adjustments, etc. Oh, and we'll even pay for them to be stuck a few feet in the ground.

For some reason the politicians have decided to help themselves to these SOCIALISTIC benefits while spouting trumps (expel intestinal gas through the anus).

However everyone else is left holding an empty bag of treats.

[arikara]

66. The base houses

at least around here are small, cheaply built crap similar to the ones they build on reserves. It wasn't too many years ago they were embarrassed into giving the rank and file military people a raise because they had to go to food banks to make ends meet. And they are still having to fight every step of the way for help if they get injured on the job even to having to get a doctor's note to re-prove an amputated limb every year. This is Canada, I can't speak to what happens in the US.

[merrily]

78. I've lived in U.S. apt. style base housing and been invited to base homes where officers live.

The former was fine--basic, common laundry in the basement, etc. but built like the proverbial brick outhouse; the latter was enviable. Security of the neighborhood, courtesy of the US military, unparalleled, even in gated communities for the uber rich. Heat, gas and electric were included. We each paid our own phone bills, period. However, as I said, this is a tangent, even as to the housing for the US military. The whole issue of compensation is a tangent. Please see the OP.

[7962]

86. PX & commissary prices arent a lot lower these days. And not all housing is free.

You are given an allowance based on rank and family size. It may or may not pay your entire rent bill depending on where you're stationed. "On base" housing is becoming more and more rare.
The biggest benefit is the ability to pull 20 yrs and get a decent check from then on. My dad did it, and several of my friends have done it. None of them would change their decision to join, from what they've told me. I did 10 yrs in the ANG, wish I'd done the other half. Gave me good skilled training and also the ability to adapt and work better with others.

[bjobotts]

29. The orders do not come from us.Come from Exxon etc

There should be a 2yr draft but not military. Call it federal service which provides teaching building medical aid etc with GI benefits after 2yrs service. Take helping other nations out of the hands of war profiteers or as G Bush called them "my base".

[Volaris]

51. If we lived under a functional democracy I would agree with you, but we dont.

Anyone who thinks those orders came from anywhere other than oil billionaires and rich weapons manufacturers, wall street types looking for new markets to open or the Deep State Lifers who would be flat broke if they had to flip hamburgers for a living is nuts.
Those orders came from the PNAC, pure and simple.
And now they want Syria, and then they will want Iran.

[GliderGuider]

6. This year I'm dedicating Remembrance Day to the memory of Shidane Arone (Trigger Warning)

Shidane was a sixteen year old Somali boy who was savagely beaten to death for sport by Canadian soldiers in 1993. For me he is emblematic of all the people we do not remember on Remembrance Day - all the innocent men, women and children who get "lit up" and then dismissed as collateral damage or just forgotten. May the afterlife of these soldiers be an eternity of icy solitude.

The Death of Shidane Arone

On March 16, 1993, Captain Michael Sox found Shidane Abukar Arone hiding in a portable toilet in an abandoned American base across from the Canadian base and, believing he was attempting to sneak into the Canadian base to steal supplies, turned him over to another soldier, who led the teenager to a bunker being used to house munitions. Arone protested, claiming he had simply been trying to find a lost child.

At 21:00, Sgt. Mark Boland replaced Master Corporal Clayton Matchee as guard of the prisoner, and ordered that his foot bindings be removed, and replaced with fetters as the ropes were too tight. Warrant Officer Murphy took the opportunity to kick Arone "savagely", which was later claimed to be implicit permission to abuse the prisoner. At this time, Matchee began his abuse of Arone by removing the captive's clothing and using it to crudely waterboard the youth until Boland objected, and Matchee left the bunker.

At 22:00, Trooper Kyle Brown took over guard duty, and brought Matchee back with him. Brown punched Arone in the jaw, and was told by Boland, rather prophetically, "I don't care what you do, just don't kill the guy", to which Brown replied that he wanted to "kill this fucker". Boland then joined Matchee and Matt McKay for beers in the mess hall, where Matchee spoke about what he wanted to do to Arone, and suggested he might put out cigarette butts on his feet. McKay suggested that Matchee might use a ration pack or phone book to beat the youth, as it would not leave any traces.

Matchee and Brown, both members of 2 Commando, then proceeded to beat Arone. Matchee used a ration pack to beat the youth, as well as a broomstick, and sodomised the teenager with it. Brown participated in the abuse, but was primarily an observer and took sixteen "trophy photos" of the beating, including one of Matchee forcing Arone's mouth open with a baton, and one of himself holding Pte. David Brocklebank's loaded pistol to Arone's head. At approximately 23:20, Master Cpl. Giasson entered the bunker, Matchee showed him Arone, who was now semi-conscious and bleeding, and boasted that "in Canada we cannot do that, and here they let us do it".

Estimates have ranged from 15-80 other soldiers could hear or observe the beating, but did not intervene. Corporal MacDonald, acting as duty signaller that night, was asked by Sgt. Major Mills about "a long dragged out howl" heard from the vicinity of the bunker, but MacDonald refused to stop playing Game Boy to investigate. Later, Matchee came by to borrow a cigarette from MacDonald and mentioned that "now the Black man would fear the Indian as he did the white man", and MacDonald went outside to check on Arone's status. He saw Matchee hitting him in the face with the baton, and reported that the prisoner was "getting a good shit-kicking" to Sgt. Perry Gresty, before retiring to bed for the night.

Arone fell unconscious after several hours of beatings, after shouting "Canada! Canada! Canada!" as his last words. When Brown mentioned the event to Sergeant J.K. Hillier, the non-commissioned officer noted there "would be trouble" if the prisoner died, and went to check on the youth whom he found had no pulse, and base medics confirmed that the boy was dead. It was later discovered that Arone had burn marks on his penis.

In memory of Shidane Arone.

[uppityperson]

8. One of the reasons to never go to war, of not make the decision lightly is that people dehumanize

others and become monsters. This reminds me of the case of Stephen Greene and Agree and her family.

It is not just those who do awful things, but those who watch without intervening. Of even know about it without intervening.

[saturnsring]

10. and we call them heroes? and thanks them for their service?

[GliderGuider]

15. We are victims of a weird kind of Stockholm Syndrome

We are essentially being held captive by the politicians, the financiers, the courts, the police and the military, and have learned to thank them for our captivity. Do you doubt it? Try not thanking them, criticizing them or worse yet, stepping outside the prescribed political, economic or legal boundaries. The sanctions are savage. Much safer to just tug your forelock and mumble "Thank you, sir" with downcast eyes as you pass your owners in the street. It becomes easier with practice...

[blackspade]

14. Holy shit that is sickening....

And likely even more common now.

[CanSocDem]

62. A good reminder...

...and a follow-up to the point of dehumanization in our military. Clayton Matchee, a young native lad and part of the gang charged, attempted, unsuccessfully, to hang himself (in shame I presume)


http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.html?id=5cfb3fa7-5c78-4b06-8c5d-b3660a13e5a6




The Matchee family has argued Clayton was adversely affected mefloquine, a medication he was taking to prevent malaria.

Matchee tried to commit suicide two days after he was implicated in the death of Arone. The attempt failed, leaving the soldier with permanent brain damage, and placing him under the permanent care of Celine.

Experts have said he will never recover from his injuries and now has the mental capacity of a three-year-old

A Lot of victims of war.



.

[valerief]

11. Only one solution. Don't sign up. I wish more young people realized this.

But, of course, our entertainment industry feeds the lust for war, which only benefits the oligarchs.

[pangaia]

20. No more fucking military war propaganda at sporting events.

No more fucking flyovers....no more----- 'support our troops' unless what is meant is get them out and into useful professions... OR-- take care of the ones hurt, damaged and mentally destroyed..

[valerief]

21. We have too much sports in America, but it's actually military training.

Us vs. Them mentality. Think football. Strategy and brute force. The endless analysis. Can you imagine if that was done for our nation's policies instead of its sports figures or "who's ahead?" horse races during elections? But that would require a free press, which we don't have in America. Mass media is owned by the oligarchs.

[arcane1]

33. Football today reminds me of something from the "Starship Troopers" movie n/t

[valerief]

35. I don't watch movies with names like that, so I don't know exactly what you mean.

But I'm sure other posters do!

[harun]

57. I see very few make this connection but it seems obvious to me.

They teach you to root for team A or team B, without thinking about what has the team's done to gain my support? Am I supporting a good cause? What is the cause? Of course in sports there is no cause, it's a game.

Same with modern wars, they aren't for a cause, they are for economics.

[valerief]

79. Very well said! Thanks for the comparison. nt

[merrily]

27. How about government? Almost everything feeds it.

[valerief]

30. ? Not sure what your question is. nt

[merrily]

34. The question was rhetorical. The entertainment industry is not all feeding the military frenzy

is the point. Government feeds it. Everything feeds it.

[valerief]

40. Oh, yes, of course. That's true. Because the military is where the oligarchs

get their power. Might IS right. It's always worked and always will until our species evolves.

The world is run by 20-year-old men. I put this as a conversation in a novel I wrote years ago. The young men have no idea why they attack people the oligarchs have labeled as enemies, but attack they do. They've all had Hollywood and sports training. Life is a fight, us versus them, good guys versus bad guys. Father knows best. No need to think. Just imagine if these 20-year-old men who suppress revolution for the good of the oligarchs were trained to think. Imagine that power.

But not in my lifetime.

[erronis]

45. I know an awful lot of young people who lusted after the signup bonus ($5-20k)

In debt or not. The thought of thousands of $s to spend make most of us lower-income people lost our common sense.

Once in the cadre, you are are brow-beaten until you either become one of their henchmen, or you are kicked out. That's how we end up with the "best and the brightest".

Still these examples of personal torture and hatred should not exist, even in our lock-step military or our sadistic CIA operatives.

[valerief]

80. And this is why the oligarchs don't want a strong middle class.

If more people had more money/jobs/options, that bonus wouldn't look so good.

I think kids have a better chance for a healthy survival selling drugs than going into the military.

[JDPriestly]

12. Since WWII, we fought in Korea, Viet Nam, Cambodia, various places in Africa, too many to name

really, Viet Nam, Nicaragua, Kosovo, Iraq, Libya and who knows where else. Did we fight in Greece after WWII? I've never been really sure about that.

Which of those wars actually changed anything for the better? Maybe in Kosovo we were able to stop a slaughter. Who knows?

And how much of our blood, sweat and tears did we spend on those useless wars?

Maybe we need to consider the alternatives more carefully before we start dropping bombs?

Maybe if the news media would do its job and publish the whole truth about our wars past, present and future and how, if at all, they make things worse and better, we could save a lot of lives, money and political bad breath.

[abelenkpe]

38. Media are monopolies

invested in war. They're not going to be reporting anything of the sort. Sadly.

[bvar22]

53. You may add Grenada, Pananma, Somalia, and Lebanon.

*

[tecelote]

13. 2016 we can change directions...

if people will be brave enough to vote for Bernie.

The status quo has to end for so many reasons but endless war for profit must be the #1 reason we disappoint our corporate overlords.

[jtuck004]

16. But war is always like this, and we keep having them. The kid of the 60s and their kids

now sending others into harm's way, mostly to ill effect. Their parents began their training before either was aware that their views were being shaped.

We have to fix the adults first, else there will be no hope.

[Pharaoh]

19. Stormtroopers for Empire

pretty much sums it up.........

[pansypoo53219]

22. i watched the latest dr who last night. man, deep anti war writing.

damn. that was a good episode.

[merrily]

24. I am not going to blame any 20 year old who grew up on jingoism from Dems and Repubs for a thing.

[Rex]

28. We've abused our military professionals far past their breaking point.

And then they are broken and discarded by those that sent them off to war.

[forest444]

36. And the Bushes laugh, all the way to the bank.

May we never forget what happened - what really happened.

[Hulk]

32. He's right on the money.

I was drafted, trained infantry and sent to Vietnam in the summer of '69.

I was scared and pretty certain I was going to return home in a body bag, as so many of my good, close friends were. We were shot at, hit with land mines, mortars and any other means to destroy us in the blink of an eye. I saw shit that would disgust and horrify most anyone reading this short clip.

Do you honestly think we, soldiers on the front lines, took the time and compassion to think about the injustice we were carrying out against the innocent Vietnamese civilian? Oh please.

I wished....and it was a wish...to get home alive, to see my family and love ones, and to live a life far from that hell my country threw me into.

Our job was "to stay alive", and we were terrified and angry that we even had to be there and watch our innocence be shredded in the reality of imperialism for "the man".

Bull shit, all of it. I don't want your "thanks for your service". I want your promise to stop this from ever happening again.

[Octafish]

39. ''Money trumps peace.'' -- appointed pretzeldent George Walker Bush, Feb. 14, 2007

Then you realize you haven’t seen anything to support the idea that these poor fuckers are a threat to your home. You look around and you see all he contractors making six figure salaries to fix your shit, train Iraqis, maintain the ridiculous SUVs the KBR dicks ride around in.

Read More: http://www.trueactivist.com/heartbreaking-heres-what-a-u-s-soldier-said-when-asked-to-justify-the-war-on-terror/

Thank you, JohnyCanuck! Truth!

[Android3.14]

43. Hillary is partly responsible for this

Don't forget her multiple votes supporting this tragedy.

[JEB]

44. Thanks for posting.

These stories need to be told and they need to be heard.

[riderinthestorm]

46. Elections matter folks. Choose wisely.

K&R for a sobering and powerful OP.

[GliderGuider]

49. Are there politicians anywhere that support eliminating the military?

I'd vote for them. Who'd be with me?

[Bubzer]

47. Each time I see a "Freedom isn't free" bumper sticker, I want to scream in frustration.

Soldier's lives are being "spent", not for individual freedoms, but for the freedom of corporations to do as they will. The TPP is a prime example of corporate freedom overruling individual freedoms. Our soldiers should be sent in to capture CEOs and top 1 percenters who're doing more damage to this country than ISIS or any other terrorist organization ever could. At least then, they'd be fighting for our freedom.

Adding insult to injury, after corporate America has benefit from a soldier's service, they get tossed to the side. The VA and other government services for our service members are in disrepair, and have been for ages. Not because the people there don't care about doing their jobs, but because they are consistently overworked, understaffed and underpaid.

Freedom isn't free, they say... but the GOP sure as hell don't want to pay the bill.

[w0nderer]

48. K & R N/T

[hifiguy]

50. Major General Smedley Butler (USMC)

told us what war is 80 years ago:



WW I and WW II are the only exceptions I can think of, though a solid case can be made that the Korean had a good outcome for the people of South Korea.

[Thespian2]

91. Brilliant!!!

Since man learned to walk upright (maybe even before), war has been and is about economics...We want what you have, and we will kill you for it...PNAC is a prime example...

[Spitfire of ATJ]

52. He just described a "gun grab" too.

[retrowire]

55. i feel like hillary would read this

and say, "that's nice dear" as she pats them on the back with cameras flashing. she smiles. and vows to end Isis with these brave heroic men.

[MindPilot]

56. And how many are going to bring that “blasé” mentality back to the world...

only be welcomed into local police departments?

Have you been completely desensitized to the suffering of others? Is everything that moves a potential threat? is your entire motivation been reduced to "get home safe"?

Then police work is for you!!

[rocktivity]

58. They're just following orders

and earning their pay -- just like the rest of us who are lucky to have jobs.


rockivity

[silenttigersong]

60. This should be posted

everyday until the election,a politicians judgment about war should be the most important consideration for a vote.Apologizing should never be enough.Someone who is slow and deliberate upon consideration.So many soldiers are poor ,this is something to think about.

[The Wizard]

63. Let's be honest

This is a rogue nation.

[Mira]

74. I am not able to go to the link.

It tears me up plenty to only read the post.
I saw a bumper sticker today: 4 Americans dead and Hillary lied.
An old man got out of the car. I glared at him, then at the sticker, then glared and slowly shook my head. I wanted to take him on about lies and death ---- but I knew it was useless.

I'm broken-hearted about what we did to ourselves and to others.

[99th_Monkey]

76. War is Hell. War is a Racket. -nt-

[Bottoms_Up]

81. Been there. Done that. Truth.

I remember being excited to go, too. Kinda fucked up in retrospect.
Not sure exactly why I was excited for the experience to go there... but there it is.

Then, irony being what is it is, 26 months later I wasn't even sure exactly why we were even there.

Those people don't want the US/ISIS/Russia/Taliban/(insert assholes here) there.

waste of money.

[thucythucy]

89. Did anyone see the PBS series "Vietnam: a Television History"?

There's an interview where a soldier recounts how he realized, midway through his tour, that he was "a redcoat." "In school we were taught how these horrible redcoats came over here to suppress our freedoms and oppress us, and it suddenly dawned on me--I was a redcoat." That's not an exact quote, but close.

I wish they'd rebroadcast that series. Time goes on and this history gets twisted and distorted.

If only we'd learned "the lesson of Vietnam" we might not have been so easily duped into the disaster that was our invasion of Iraq.

[billhicks76]

94. Our Leaders Should Pay The Price

The Senators, Generals, Presidents and CEOs. They are supposed to be the grown ups...the ones evolving our species. But they treat these people like yesterday's trash. It's a crime.

[Sunlei]

98. "so “blasé” about drone strikes and other civilian deaths". IMO, why some ex-Vets make bad police.