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HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
Fri Nov 6, 2015, 06:57 PM Nov 2015

The Ben Carson Contradiction: Why Intelligent People Can Be Stupid, Too

And, yes, there are the very big issues of deceit, although even there one can explore the issues of memory. Regardless, Carson's case is worth exploring on a human level. These two pieces cover some really interesting ground toward that end, IMO. Both pieces are written by MDs, offering some further exploration of the concerns about Carson.

The Ben Carson Contradiction by Steven Novella, MD
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/the-ben-carson-contradiction/#more-8543

"...

I bring all this up in order to address a question – how can one person be undeniably brilliant in one sphere of their intellectual life, and shockingly ignorant and anti-intellectual in other spheres? I have heard this question often in recent weeks, pretty much every time a new revelation about Carson’s beliefs comes out.

I don’t think this is as much of a contradiction as it may at first seem. Carson is evidence for something that I have tried to emphasize often here – all humans suffer from similar cognitive flaws and biases. We can all be brilliant and stupid at the same time, and apparently have no difficulty compartmentalizing our beliefs in order to minimize cognitive dissonance.

I write frequently about the neuroscience of belief, because I think there is no greater insight we can have than how our own brains function, because that is the tool we use to understand the rest of the universe. Invariably, however, when I discuss a specific cognitive flaw or bias, the common reaction is the equivalent of, “Yeah, other people are stupid.”

Take, for example, the Dunning-Kruger effect. I almost universally hear this principle described as, “dumb people are too dumb to realize how dumb they are.” The data, however, does not support this conclusion. It does not reveal something about “dumb people,” but rather something about all people. We are all on the Dunning-Kruger spectrum, and we can be on different places on the spectrum with regard to different areas of knowledge, at the same time.

..."


------------------------------------------------------

Ben Carson: A case study on why intelligent people are often not skeptics by David Gorski, MD
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/11/06/ben-carson-why-intelligent-people-are-not-necessarily-skeptics/

"As a surgeon, I find Ben Carson particularly troubling. By pretty most reports, he was a skilled neurosurgeon who practiced for three decades, rising to the chief of neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins. Yet, when he ventures out of the field of neurosurgery—even out of his own medical specialty—he routinely lays down some of the dumbest howlers I’ve ever heard. For example, he denies evolution, but, even worse, he’s been a shill for a dubious supplement company, Mannatech. Worse still, when called out for his relationship with Mannatech in the last Republican debate, Carson lied through his teeth about it. The pseudoscientific views he relates have been so bad that he led me to resurrect some old schtick that I had abandoned years ago about physicians denying evolution leading me to put a paper bag over my head in shame for my profession. I’m also reminded of it not just by media stories about Carson’s latest verbal gaffe but because I work within easy walking distance of the Ben Carson High School of Medicine and Science, a STEM-related high school designed to encourage high school students to pursue careers in the sciences.

...

As a physician and a surgeon, I never cease to be amazed at how brilliant physicians, who are so knowledgeable and skilled at medicine, can be so irredeemably ignorant about topics not related to medicine, and even, as was the case with Ben Carson’s dubious cancer cure testimonial for Mannatech, medical topics not related to their specific specialty. Indeed, Andy Borowitz nailed it well when portrayed Carson as “shattering the stereotype about brain surgeons being smart.”

Or did he?

...

It’s not surprising, then, that physicians might come to overestimate their ability to master another discipline, at least well enough to pontificate confidently on it. Of course we can! We’re doctors! We made it through the ringer that is medical school, residency, and board certification. Just give me enough time and enough Google and we can learn anything! Is it any wonder that physicians are particularly prone to the Dunning-Kruger effect? Not to me, at least not any more. The same seems to be true of many other high-achieving people. There’s a reason that most leaders in the antivaccine movement tend to be affluent, highly educated people. J.B. Handley, for instance, is a successful businessman who has basically said that he doesn’t need to listen to us pointy-headed scientists and physicians; he’s learned what he needs to learn about vaccines causing autism himself.

..."


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The Ben Carson Contradiction: Why Intelligent People Can Be Stupid, Too (Original Post) HuckleB Nov 2015 OP
Interesting that the highly educated doctor doesn't know the difference between ringer and wringer Fumesucker Nov 2015 #1
When it comes to Gorski, one has to let those things go. HuckleB Nov 2015 #2
Brain Surgeon by That Mitchell And Webb HuckleB Nov 2015 #3
This is so true. I notice that even in my company, certain people who are considered smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #4
Indeed. I see it with researchers a lot. HuckleB Nov 2015 #5
The Dunning-Kreuger effect is especially prominent among the highly educated. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2015 #6
Interesting. HuckleB Nov 2015 #7

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
1. Interesting that the highly educated doctor doesn't know the difference between ringer and wringer
Fri Nov 6, 2015, 07:08 PM
Nov 2015

Another Dunning Kruger...

Sorry, that kind of stuff just jumps out at me.

People tend to conflate "affluent" with "highly educated", in my experience people who make a lot of money are often not broadly educated but rather are highly educated in a narrow specialty. There simply isn't *time* in a life for most of us to both make a great deal of money and collect a great deal of information on a wide range of subjects.

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
2. When it comes to Gorski, one has to let those things go.
Fri Nov 6, 2015, 07:14 PM
Nov 2015

The guy must type fast, because he puts out a massive amount on his blogs, in addition to a rather busy career as a surgeon. Capote's quote about Kerouac often comes to mind. He often makes fun of himself for it, as well.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
4. This is so true. I notice that even in my company, certain people who are considered
Fri Nov 6, 2015, 08:45 PM
Nov 2015

"brilliant" in their specialty are amazingly ignorant when it comes to anything else. The strange thing is that they are very well educated, but their focus is so narrow and they are so driven in their field that they completely block out other types of knowledge that would crowd out the information that they would need to do their jobs.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
6. The Dunning-Kreuger effect is especially prominent among the highly educated.
Fri Nov 6, 2015, 09:53 PM
Nov 2015

Doctors are not only the worst pilots, they are also the most dangerous drivers.

"I'm soooo smart that I make $600,000 annually! Give me the keys to that Ferrarri, how tough could it be?"

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
7. Interesting.
Fri Nov 6, 2015, 10:00 PM
Nov 2015

And that's in Britain, where I presume, though I shouldn't, that they don't make quite as much as they do over here. Hmm. Still, one does have to wonder about the state of job fatigue in health care workers in Britain.

This older study in the US noted cell phone use as a possible reason for MDs being near the top.
http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/30/pf/autos/bad_drivers/

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