What the media ISN'T telling you about Carson's pyramid claims

[EdwardBernays]

Last edited Thu Nov 5, 2015, 10:03 PM - Edit history (5)

Aren't we having fun? Doesn't this remind us of the lunacy of a certain Pokemon quoting philosopher?

There's a lot more to the story though, and the media either hasn't copped on to it yet, or is refusing to run with it, due to concerns about a backlash.

A backlash?

Yep.

You see, Carson's beliefs are inextricably tied up with his religion, and the media can't be seen to be attacking a candidates religion, right?

But we're getting ahead of ourselves, how is this connected to his religion?

Well, grab a beer and settle in; this is gonna take some explaining.

Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist. One of the founders of his religion was a woman, who SDA venerates as an actual prophet, named Ellen White. White prophesied alllll sorts of things and SDAs believe these are all factual, that she is, "inerrant" or even that god directly spoke through her. Proving her prophecies to be true would mean that their faith is real.

Ok, so?

Back in the 1990s, there a very famous - in some religious circles - SDA pseudo-archaeologist named Ron Wyatt. He made it his life's work to use "archaeology" to prove the bible was right, but to SPECIFICALLY prove that certain Ellen White prophesies were right.

Here's some of the things he claimed to have discovered:

- Noah's Ark (the Durupınar site, located approximately 18 miles (29 km) south of Mount Ararat)
- Anchor stones (or drogue stones) used by Noah on the Ark
- The post-flood house, grave markers and tombs of Noah and his wife
- The location of Sodom and Gomorrah and the other Cities of the Plain: Zoar, Zeboim and Admah
- Sulfur/brimstone balls from the ashen remains of Sodom and Gomorrah.
- The area of Djoser's pyramid complex believed to be the remains of Joseph's grain distribution bins used during the 7 year famine.
- The Tower of Babel site (in southern Turkey)
- How the Egyptians may have built the pyramids.
- The site of the Israelites' crossing of the Red Sea (located in the Gulf of Aqaba)
- Chariot wheels and other relics of the army of Pharaoh at the bottom of the Red Sea
- The site of the biblical Mt. Sinai (in Saudi Arabia at Jabal al Lawz)
- A chamber at the end of a maze of tunnels under Jerusalem containing artifacts from Solomon's Temple (including the Ark of the Covenant).
- The site of the Crucifixion of Jesus
- Christ's blood, dripped onto the Mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant beneath the Crucifixion site.

You might have noticed something on that list, but if you didn't I'll type it again:

- The area of Djoser's pyramid complex believed to be the remains of Joseph's grain distribution bins used during the 7 year famine.

You see, Ron Wyatt invented a wonderful new theory, that Imhotep, who made the pyramids, was in actual fact the biblical Joseph.

This idea was quite popular in the late 1990s, among the SDA, and surely Carson heard this idea from Wyatt, who was very well known in the church.

And - almost certainly - Carson believes Imhotep was ACTUALLY Joseph.

Wyatt was a serial liar though... and a conman. His wife carries on his, "work" with the "Wyatt Archeological Research" organisation... which is a for profit entity.

http://www.ronwyatt.com/promtional_products.html
http://wyattmuseum.com/shop

Here's a choice quote about Ron:

'Archaeologist Joe Zias of Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA) has stated that "Ron Wyatt is neither an archaeologist nor has he ever carried out a legally licensed excavation in Israel or Jerusalem. In order to excavate one must have at least a BA in archaeology which he does not possess despite his claims to the contrary. ... His claims fall into the category of trash which one finds in tabloids such as the National Enquirer, Sun etc."'

Info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Wyatt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inspiration_of_Ellen_G._White
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ron_Wyatt
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Joseph_was_Imhotep
http://www.ldolphin.org/wyatt1.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/love_money_wyatt.html

The last link is insane, but worth a read as it does explain some things not in the other links... the author is a rabid anti-semite though - be warned.

So, media, why haven't you asked Carson about Wyatt, and about... Joseph and Imhotep?

There so many questions to ask, if Carson is a Wyatt supporter - and the answers could end his campaign.

[randys1]

1. Obi-Wan says he who votes for religious nut, deserves serious gas and bad stomach

[scscholar]

2. Has it been proven he is one of those SDA people?

Or, is that just a guess based upon his lies?

[starroute]

6. There's no doubt that he's a Seventh Day Adventist

But the church, despite its cult-like origins and somewhat wacky scientific beliefs, isn't fundamentalist and included many liberals. (I had to schedule my younger son's birthday parties on Sundays for years because he had a Seventh Day Adventist friend who couldn't attend on Saturdays.)

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/03/a-closer-look-at-seventh-day-adventists-in-america/

After Carson’s announcement that he would run for president, the Seventh-day Adventist Church released a statement emphasizing its political neutrality. While Carson (along with 35% of Seventh-day Adventists) is a Republican, many in the denomination identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party (45%). About one-in-five (19%) Adventists identify as political independents or do not lean toward either party.

Adventists also are spread out across the ideological spectrum: 37% say they are conservatives, 31% identify as political moderates and 22% say they are liberals. Interestingly, about half of Adventists (53%) favor a bigger government with more services, while four-in-ten prefer a smaller government (42%).

Carson has compared abortion to slavery and called for it to be banned in all circumstances, but Adventists are actually somewhat divided over abortion. About four-in-ten (42%) say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 54% say it should be entirely or mostly illegal. This latter group includes one-in-five Seventh-day Adventists (19%) who take Carson’s view that abortion should be illegal in all cases.

[starroute]

7. Here are some proposed questions for Carson from a former Adventist

http://mashable.com/2015/11/05/ben-carson-seventh-day-adventist/#fMNO0sgLlEqg

How do you observe the Sabbath? Would that change how you tackled the job of being president?

It's hard for the 10-year-old me who wanted to be a test pilot to reconcile Adventism and the world's most demanding job. Adventists believe in a strictly non-secular observance of the time between Friday sunset and Saturday sunset, and many sermons in my childhood focused on heroic Adventists who rejected jobs, closed businesses, or even resisted out-and-out coercion to do non-secular activities on the Sabbath. In fact, the Adventist belief of the end of the world focuses entirely on observance of the Saturday Sabbath. I'd love to know just how a practicing Adventist expects to wake up to a national security briefing every Sabbath morning of his presidency. . . .

Do you believe that the office of the pope is, in fact, the Antichrist? How would this affect your relations with American Catholics and the Vatican?

Adventists got upset when Carson met with Pope Francis on his recent trip to the United States. Before he visited, I heard from Adventists who were scared that the Pope's visit represented a beginning to the end times. Carson's clearly trying to get some distance from the pope-as-Antichrist concept; but this belief is core to Adventism.

[hedgehog]

10. Your milage may vary, but around here the Seventh Day Adventists

are known for providing food and clothing to the many rural poor and people who get burned out. I'd back off on the "those people"

[AlbertCat]

38. I'd back off on the "those people"

It's nice they are so helpful to those in need. (why be or vote Repug then?)

But if the beliefs are nuts, they are nuts.

[scscholar]

44. sigh, people defending crap

> why be or vote Repug then?

Because they hate humanity?

[LiberalElite]

47. I worked with a SDA years back -

he was a very good guy. First vegetarian I ever knew. (I'm a vegetarian now myself but for other reasons.)

[EdwardBernays]

51. Carson was supposedly a veggie

when he was held up at Popeye's chicken...

[LiberalElite]

57. Heh. I didn't think of that Maybe he was just ordering the sides -

SDA's believe vegetarianism is encouraged by a line in the Bible, I think this is it: Genesis 1:29
Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food."

Maybe Ben isn't as devout as he'd like us to think; that being said, not all SDA's are vegetarian.

http://www.nutrition411.com/articles/seventh-day-adventist-diet-0

See Health and Diet section:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church

My co-worker, an immigrant from Sierra Leone often showed me what he'd purchased at a local health food store, including canned hot dogs and various meat substitutes. These items were part of the Loma Linda and Worthington brands which have some connection to their church. Loma Linda and Worthington are generally only found in health food stores and in places like https://foursquare.com/v/seventhday-adventist-book-center/4c2b905457a9c9b6b41cf667 in Midtown Manhattan NYC.

http://www.soyinfocenter.com/HSS/loma_linda_foods.php

My co-worker who coincidentally was also named Ben, in spite of all his clean living died in his 30's from cancer. R.I.P. Ben.

[yardwork]

70. It turns out that story was probably a complete fabrication anyway.

[AlbertCat]

53. he was a very good guy.

And?

[LibertyLover]

3. Djoser's pyramid

Has some large spaces in it, but not large enough to,hold grain to,last the entire Egyptian population for 7 years. And it is roughly 100 years from the building of the Step Pyramid to,the building of those at Giza. Don't get me started on how there isn't enough space in any one of them for grain storage. There were large grain storage areas at Giza to supply the necropolis orders, but the Egyptians used conical storage units for grain that worked just fine. Carson and his wacky ass religion can go take a running jump off a short pier.

[whopis01]

71. If it wasn't big enough that proves it must be god's work

If it wasn't big enough to hold enough grain, yet it did supply grain for all those years, then it is obviously a miracle and the work of god.

Oh yeah. I just body slammed your logic with the power of faith!

(I really hope this isn't necessary for anyone, but just in case - the above was sarcastic. And silly. Mostly silly really, but sarcastic as well)

[KamaAina]

4. The author of the second link from the bottom is at least as much of a crank as Wyatt

I stumbled across Australian Lambert Dolphin while searching for information on dolphins in Australia.

This Dolphin believes he has found a way to fit radiocarbon dating into creationist theory. Are you ready? Pull up a seat. It's the CDK (c decay) theory, which posits that the speed of light has been slowing down over time, thereby fooling those using the radiocarbon dating method into believing things are millions of years old when they are, in fact (?), 6,000 years old or less.

http://www.ldolphin.org/constc.shtml

[EdwardBernays]

41. 100%

he's a LUNATIC... but only lunatics talk about Wyatt...

[OKNancy]

5. Great research. Thanks

[EdwardBernays]

33. You're welcome.

Spread it around if you can.

[longship]

8. Thank you for this informative research.

I knew that Carson is a SDA. They are generally nice people, but I would not want one of them to be anywhere near the White House. They are, as a whole, creationists, and believe many kooky things.

[EdwardBernays]

32. You're welcome.

Spread it far and wide.

[malaise]

9. Yep it's Adventist BS

Ignorance is bliss

[Half-Century Man]

11. Imhotep wasn't a Pharoh.

http://www.britannica.com/biography/Imhotep

[hifiguy]

13. Court architect and physician to Pharaoh.

Arguably the founder of the modern medical method attributed to the more famous Hippocrates.

Also the title character in the 1932 Boris Karloff movie, "The Mummy."

[Half-Century Man]

19. Hollywood's got a lot of mileage out of his name.

Bit of a shame; he is so widely remembered for the exploitation of his name, not his accomplishments.

[EdwardBernays]

27. Thanks

Fixed.

Sorry I did this quickly and made a few mistakes. Fixed now.

[patricia92243]

12. Why would Joseph use a pyramid shaped building? Why not just regular one or two

story buildings? What would be gained by using hard to build pyramids? And could a pyramid - for any use - be built in seven years?

[Hekate]

60. Well,you know, if you put your dinner under a pyramidal shape at home it will be magically preserved

....for like ever -- or some such shit I read in the 1990s.

That does it: Carson is batshit insane.

[MohRokTah]

14. The REAL problem with their insane claims ...

The Ancient Egyptians who built the pyramids carved into stone the reason WHY they were building the pyramids, so we have contemporary documented proof that Carson is a nutbag.

[Generic Other]

18. The pyramids have revealed most of their secrets

It seems silly to deny the validity of the claims.

Now if he said the ziggurats of Sumer contained grain storehouses, he would at least be somewhat accurate they did contain storage areas in temple complexes. To me, the story of Joseph sounds lifted straight from "The Epic of Gilgamesh" where the goddess Ishtar fills granaries in preparation for a seven year drought that will occur when she releases the bull of heaven. Most Bible stories are not primary sources.

And as you say, the Egyptians could write. They told us what they left behind.

[hifiguy]

15. Is this part of some sort of contest to see

how many completely and utterly batshit insane things can be believed before breakfast?

[Rex]

22. Noah was actually Mordeeb and Joseph built lightsabers for The Horde.

Skeletor knows...he just ain't talkin...


He turned me down for VP. Sigh.

[hifiguy]

23. I'm sticking with the calm, wise, benevolent

cartoon characters.

[minidriver]

72. I'm OK with this

Plus being over 1000 years old, she's probably a goddess or at least immortal. One invisible sky deity is as good as any other.

[hifiguy]

73. Celestia is very much visible and real.

At least she is in Equestria. She regularly goes out among her subjects to find out what they are thinking and what their problems are; she also raises the sun every day, right there in front of everypony and personally presides over many ceremonies every year in addition to running the government through a prime minister and bureaucracy.

Consensus of the fandom is that she is at least 1300 years old but is not immortal. Demigoddess, yes, goddess, no.

I know far too much about ponies.

[Generic Other]

16. They certainly harped at Obama endlessly about Rev Wright

until they decided he was actually a Muslim.

So yes, you are right, The questions about the non-traditional beliefs of this man should be scrutinized very carefully. I don't want a president whose foreign policy includes working to usher in the endtimes every time some prophet in his church announces Armageddon is imminent. Thank you for digging up all this mythological hodge podge of splinter group beliefs.

[gratuitous]

20. This would seem to fit the goose-and-gander principle

That is, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. There was no shortage of popular media coverage of Rev. Wright, and his "God DAMN America" clip*, which seemed to be running on an endless loop on certain outlets in 2008. Ben Carson should be button-holed about where he gets his information and why he believes the lunatic nonsense he is so prone to spouting. This isn't just transubstantiation vs. consubstantiation or same stuff/similar stuff; it makes a difference.

Usually, political reporters stay far, far away from asking candidates about religion. George W. Bush bought himself a total pass on questions about his life and conduct before he turned 40 by airily claiming that Jesus had changed his heart. It seemed to work pretty well for his life and conduct after 40, as well. I think a large part of it is that political reporters are exceedingly uncomfortable asking about religion, and are allergic to learning anything about religion so as to ask an informed question.

*Curiously, it went practically unmentioned that the reason Rev. Wright was thundering "God Damn America" was because of the enslavement of millions of people in the United States in the 19th Century. Nobody yakking about Rev. Wright ever offered an opinion on whether slavery was an occasion for God's blessing or damnation to my recollection.

[Generic Other]

24. I never thought Wright's comments were unreasonable

given the context. I do think believing in prophets who continually set a date for the end of the world and continuously have to admit they are wrong are FALSE PROPHETS and say nothing good about anyone who professes belief in their doctrines. But that's just me trying to apply logic and consistency to my worldview.

[MisterP]

17. interestingly creationism IS an Adventist doctrine (heresy, really)

it took off in the 60s as a movement entirely from one crank; the 20s wave was more tied to WWI

also, always recall that it wouldn't even be a movement had it not profited someone with already-deep pockets

[Rex]

21. Hmmm...current theory is that Obi Wan was actually Lukes father

I know...that bastard!

[cwydro]

25. I saw Carson being questioned on CNN about this, and he admitted it straight out.

That he believes Joseph built the pyramids.

[EdwardBernays]

26. But

There's much more.

Someone needs to ask if he thinks Imhotep is Joseph. And if he believes that Wyatt actually found the Arc of the Covenant etc.

There's a lot more but someone would have to do some research.

The Wyatts are pretty crooked.

[cwydro]

36. That would fly right over the heads of any voter that is currently for him imo.

I'm beginning to think he's crazy as a bedbug.

[EdwardBernays]

40. I don't know

the GOP is VERY fickle... and SCARED of Hillary... if they think he's a nutter - and he is - they'll just flock back to Trump I think...

[scscholar]

46. Trump

Especially since he is probably the most Republican person to have ever walked the Earth. He is not a whole person.

[riversedge]

29. I do not think it wil make a difference. He has said lots of vile, bigoted stuff and his polls

only go up and up. Now lots of this stuff seems to be linked to his Religion-don;t think msm will touch that-his beliefs. IMHO

[EdwardBernays]

31. Except

If you spend any time on right-wing sites you'll see that not only are they intolerant of his religion, they also think this conspiracy theory is beyond reasonable and that it makes him unfit to be president.

Seriously.

Something IS gonna take him down and if the media presses this it could be just the thing.

Americans don't know about the insanity of SDA beliefs and after the supplements thing if Carson is promoting ANOTHER conmans crap well.... this could be it for him.

[eridani]

68. Doubt it. The same fundies who don't think that SDA is a Christian religion--

--pretty much feel the same way about Mormons. Didn't stop any of them from supporting Rmoney.

[EdwardBernays]

69. the difference

is that Romney's craziness isn't about crazy scammy pseudo-science, which can be easily debunked, it's about the afterlife, or about the founder of the religion...



At any rate we'll see how it all plays out

[bravenak]

30. I was not surprised. Heard it a thousand times.

Black folks, we religious. In interesting ways. I know people able to hold so mamy conflicting ideas at once that I wonder if it hurts the brain.

[mr blur]

63. What on earth are you talking about?

[bravenak]

28. My other uncle is a Seventh Day Adventist preacher or whatever. .

Has a bunch of silly followers. CrAzy. Nuff said.

[hifiguy]

74. Wow, a grave-dancing sigline.

That's REAL class. A new DU low has just been hit.

[bravenak]

76. Oh please. It is just a gif, not a grave dance.

Over reacting is silly.

[hifiguy]

78. If you expect me to beieve that

you are in Ben Carson territory.

[bravenak]

79. I do not care what you believe. You take this too seriously. It is s gif.

[tanyev]

34. I was googling Imhotep not too long ago and was surprised to come across the idea that he was Joseph

I was even more horrified when I then entered the search term "Joseph was NOT Imhotep" and only got pages and pages of hits telling me that Joseph was indeed Imhotep. I grew up in a conservative church and had never heard that before.

I think one of the things that seals it for them is that Imhotep was also renowned for dream interpretation. Because in a society that placed great importance on dream interpretation, there must have only been one person who ever did it.

[EdwardBernays]

37. the rabbit hole

is deeeeeep on this one...

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/Talk4-6-96.htm

[DhhD]

48. Daniel did it in Nebuchadnezzar's Court when the Israelites were sacked off to Babylon many

years later in the Middle East (Iraq of today). I think all of this speculation could be straighten out by simply applying a time-line. The Hebrew did not build the Pyramids.

http://www.michaelhilario.com/imd110/site2/timeline.htm

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4191
Did Jewish Slaves Build the Pyramids?
It's a popular story, but all the documentary and historical evidence tells us that no Jews were in Egypt at the time of the pyramids.

by Brian Dunning

snip

Now, there are more than just a single question we're trying to answer here. Were the Jews slaves in ancient Egypt? Were the pyramids built by these slaves? Did the Exodus happen as is commonly believed?

The biggest and most obvious evidence — the pyramids themselves — are an easy starting point. Their age is well established. The bulk of the Giza Necropolis, consisting of such famous landmarks as the Great Pyramid of Cheops and the Sphinx, are among Egypt's oldest large pyramids and were completed around 2540 BCE. Most of Egypt's large pyramids were built over a 900 year period from about 2650 BCE to about 1750 BCE.

We also know quite a lot about the labor force that built the pyramids. The best estimates are that 10,000 men spent 30 years building the Great Pyramid. They lived in good housing at the foot of the pyramid, and when they died, they received honored burials in stone tombs near the pyramid in thanks for their contribution. This information is relatively new, as the first of these worker tombs was only discovered in 1990. They ate well and received the best medical care. And, also unlike slaves, they were well paid. The pyramid builders were recruited from poor communities and worked shifts of three months (including farmers who worked during the months when the Nile flooded their farms), distributing the pharaoh's wealth out to where it was needed most. Each day, 21 cattle and 23 sheep were slaughtered to feed the workers, enough for each man to eat meat at least weekly. Virtually every fact about the workers that archaeology has shown us rules out the use of slave labor on the pyramids.

It wasn't until almost 2,000 years after the Great Pyramid received its capstone that the earliest known record shows evidence of Jews in Egypt, and they were neither Hebrews nor Israelites.
more at link

[snagglepuss]

58. That there was no Moses or Jewish slaves or escape across the Red Sea is proved

by the fact that Egyptians were meticulous record keepers, and there is nothing in their records that there were thousands of Jewish slaves in Egypt or any mass exodus of people, things that administrators would definitely have noted.

[Person 2713]

61. +1

[AlbertCat]

35. and the answers could end his campaign.

Not for any....ANY person who doesn't casually practice their religion... any religion.


There's that thing where if you firmly believe in something that has been repeatedly and totally debunked, it is some kind of badge of honor. Flying in the face of evidence is rewarded.

There must be a medical name for that.

[EdwardBernays]

39. except

the GOP voters don't want a guy that is insane by THEIR standards... and by their standards, if Carson says he believes Wyatt, and all that that implies, he'll be toast...

Here's a glimpse of Wyatt:

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/Talk4-6-96.htm

[skepticscott]

52. Yes, there is

Fucking batshit insane.

Not sure what that makes the people who admire and defend him, but it can't be good.

[Ccarmona]

42. Wait, I'm Confused

If God spoke to a woman, Ellen Wyatt, why then would God also have spoken to Joesph Smith, whose followers did not have much respect for women.

[EdwardBernays]

43. He was a vey busy god

back in the day

[tblue37]

59. Multitasking. nt

[Hekate]

62. Polytheism. I find it helps to be a polytheist when trying to sort thru all the conflicting claims.

Omnians think Om is the only god, but Offler the Crocodile god begs to differ.

So there you have it.

[hifiguy]

75. The thing that spoke to Joseph Smith

was either money or the voices in his own batty head.

[lumberjack_jeff]

45. You can be as ignorant, dishonest and maladapted as you want to be, provided you're holding a bible.

Last edited Fri Nov 6, 2015, 08:10 PM - Edit history (1)

I really don't understand what's their problem with Sharia law.

[hifiguy]

77. And that is probably has always been the single grestest problem

with American society. ANYTHING is and can be justified by saying the magical words gawd and jeebus. Absolutely anything. And it is then never questioned and can never BE questioned.

Religulous superstitions and the rapacious avarice of the greedpigs are the twin altars at w which this country is gleefully offering itself as the ultimate blood sacrifice.

[herding cats]

49. Excellent work you've done here!

I admit I knew nothing about SDA religion, and I found this all to be quite illuminating!

I'm still working my way through your links...there's some pretty amazing stuff in them. I can't believe how gullible people can be at times.

[EdwardBernays]

50. Thank you!

I'm glad you're finding it enlightening...

It's worth a google as well, because there's many, many pages about this... my post is just an introduction, but it illustrates clearly that he's unelectable.

[Hortensis]

64. Yes and again, thank you, Eward. This is very interesting.

[2pooped2pop]

54. send this info to trump

maybe he will use it

[EdwardBernays]

55. [touches nose]

who says I haven't

[leveymg]

56. Isn't the fact that he's in the Clown Car proof enough that he's nuts?

Comic overkill. And then there's Hillary's beliefs that War is Peace, that Saudi Arabia is our friend, and imposing a No Fly Zone against the Russian Air Force in Syria will protect refugees . . . Another Clown looking for a ride over a cliff.

[oasis]

65. Very interesting. Thanks

[EdwardBernays]

66. You're welcome :)

Share it around if you can

[kairos12]

67. I thought pyramid schemes were illegal?

[L. Coyote]

80. What we've seen so far is the tip of the pyramid.

The campaign is only starting, plenty more crazy stuff down the road. But today Carson got thrown under the clown car and he won't recover.

[EdwardBernays]

81. lol

hahahaha


and yes.