Ben Carson: the ark was built by amateurs, the Titanic by professionals

[KamaAina]

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2015/10/29/9639228/ben-carson-noahs-ark

Leading Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson has never held elected office and isn't known for his in-depth understanding of public policy issues. Critics have questioned whether it makes sense to elect him president. But Carson has a response to this criticism:
It is important to remember that amateurs built the Ark and it was the professionals that built the Titanic. @my_ccu

This is a common sentiment among Republican voters. Many conservatives believe that professional politicians and other Washington insiders have made a hash of things, resulting in soaring deficits, crony capitalism, and other ills. So there's a lot of appeal to the idea of the citizen politician — someone who makes his or her career in the private sector, spends a few years in government, and then goes back to private life.

Conservatives like to hark back to the early days of the American republic, when this kind of thing was more common. In the 19th century, getting elected to federal office didn't require raising millions of dollars, so it was easier for someone with no prior political experience to get involved in politics. Supporters of Ben Carson see him as the 21st-century embodiment of this ideal....

Today no one would want an amateur doctor to do brain surgery on them — they'd want a highly trained professional like Ben Carson. Most jobs doing scientific research require a PhD, because it takes years of study to master the scientific state of the art. And it's a good thing that, generally speaking, we expect politicians to have some previous experience in government — or related fields — before elevating them to the highest office in the land.

[abhi123]

1. Nice discussion

It is extremely well discussion .

[surrealAmerican]

16. Welcome to DU ...

... where the smilie comes in handy.

[LiberalArkie]

35. Welcome aboard. It sometimes gets rough in here especially during primary season.

So don't take anything personal.

[hollowdweller]

2. That sort of thinking is part and parcel of the modern republican party.

[immoderate]

3. Never forget — Ben Carson is a wacko!

Words to live by.

--imm

[gabeana]

4. Ignorance

so ignorance is the quality that the GOP looks for in leadership, they do a pretty good job of that

[randys1]

51. I hear the place that scores truth in statements gave ZERO percent to both Carson and Trump

for 100% honest in the debate.

[underpants]

5. Yes conservatives do like to harken back to the 19th century

Fiorina advised the CIA? I read the article, more like she sold them a lot of her crap and, it being the Bush years, that was close enough to expertise to appoint her to something (see "Browie at FEMA, Christie as a DA, and Codi anywhere).

[Maeve]

6. My dad was an amateur boat builder

He tried to make a paddleboat for our pond. Looked great, but when we put it in the water it lifted its nose to the sky and sank in the mud.
Does Carson also think amatuers should try brain surgery?

[B Calm]

7. Does Carson also think amateurs should try brain surgery? BINGO!

[Eleanors38]

9. "X-Ray of (Dizzy) Dean's Head Reveals Nothing."

[LiberalArkie]

37. I don't think Carson should attempt brain surgery since the one he did on himself did not go well.

[Warpy]

60. I had a friend years ago who tried to build his own boat

It was a pretty interesting design, I'll give him that. He got a tow out of the harbor raised the sail, and realized he should have made the rudder out of plywood instead of pine shelving very quickly. He also realized the wisdom of sealing all the joins.

Fortunately, it wasn't much of a swim to shore.

[gratuitous]

8. Joseph Goebbels was a doctor; Jesus was a community organizer

By the Ben Carson School of Logic, I think that makes our electoral choices clear, no?

[COLGATE4]

10. Goebbels wasn't a doctor although he had a doctorate.

He finished his Doctorate at Heidelberg.

[hifiguy]

30. Yup. Ph.D. in German Literature.

[Shandris]

11. That the Professional Political Class has screwed over the American Voter is somehow...

...a silly statement?

I'm not sure what world they're living in where 'our' professional politicians are doing so much good, but it sure as hell doesn't exist outside my window.

Yes, there are a (very) few occupations where having a longtime expert is a requirement, like brain surgery. The only thing 'professional' politicians, on the other hand, have done is to PROFESSIONALLY enrich themselves. I won't vote for a professional politician. Period.

Edit: To clarify (as it always seems to be needed these days), Carson himself is an idiot. But nitpicking this comment is slimy...just what I'd expect from the media. I wonder if they have a stake in the game.

[LettuceSea]

15. Yeah, there are a lot of things to not like about Carson. This isn't one of them

There is a reason why Carson and Sanders are doing so well and getting so many small donations. They speak for the people they represent and the message resonates with that base.

The DUMBEST thing either side can do is attack w the "Ben's message is for simpletons" route. That is the trap that is being set and many very, very intelligent people fall into. Because by trying to win your argument (which does have more rationale), you're just adding fuel to why their base likes him and doesn't like HRC. You win the battle and get to massage your intellect, but lose the war because so many are attracted to his humility (or the appearance of), and are unattracted to the "we know what's better for the simpletons" vibe.

His message is naive, and will derail his campaign...as LONG AS THE MSM DOESNT TRY TO DO IT. Do that and you make him a martyr, and all bets are off.

[hifiguy]

31. The dolts and rubes back Trump and Carson

the smart ones back Bernie.

[LettuceSea]

45. I agree

But sometimes, you just have to smile and let them discover that themselves.

Kind of like smoking a cigarette...when everyone is telling you to stop, some personalities take that as an invitation to dig in and smoke another pack.

[smirkymonkey]

73. Unfortunately we seem to have more dolts and rubes in this country

than smart people. Let's just hope they don't show up at the polls.

[Fred Sanders]

80. Dolts and rubes are now evenly split between Carson and Trump. But Sanders supporter are NOT that.

The insipid comparisons between Sanders and the imbeciles supporting imbeciles Trump and Carson is ridiculous......and a favorite meme of the RW.

[hifiguy]

83. I was making no comparisons.

Merely pointing out that the "fed up" are gravitating to outsider candidates. The sane/nuts divide is very apparent.

[smirkymonkey]

84. What? I don't think you really understood my post.

I was not in any way comparing Sanders supporters with Trump/Carson supporters. How on earth did you get that from what I wrote? Exactly the opposite.

[TreasonousBastard]

12. But, the ark was built at the direction of God...

while the Titanic was designed by fallible humans.

The iceberg was God's judgement on those fallible humans who dared to build such a huge ship-- just as God judged the builders of the Tower of Babel.

Carson ain't got half of it.

[Johonny]

22. I'm pretty sure the last time I checked more people die in that Ark myth than the Titanic reality.

Ben's vision of America's future, mass deaths for the many while God magically saves a few. That clears that up.

[TreasonousBastard]

58. Yeah, there is that. BUT, they deserved it.

[Mendocino]

13. Jethro Bodine

"I don't know if I want to be a brain surgeon or a fry cook?...maybe a double naught spy?"

[Elwood P Dowd]

17. I thought Louie Gohmert said that? (nm)

[hifiguy]

33. I have to give a thumbs up

to any post mentioning Jethro wanting to be a double-naught spy.



ETA:

[Mendocino]

81. Do you remember

his gizintas?















2 ginzata 4 two times
3 ginzita 6 three times

and so on.

[hifiguy]

82. Vividly.

The Beverly Hillbillies was on every morning when I was a mere lad back in the late 1960s. Watched it faithfully every summer and on school breaks because it always made me laugh my butt off.

Jed, Elly May and Miss Jane were the only remotely sane continuing characters in the whole show by about 1965 or so. I think the writers of that show and Green Acres were early adopters of the very pure and potent LSD that was around back then.

[Mendocino]

87. Tomorrow Never Knows

Turn off your mind, relax and float in the cement pond

[edbermac]

14. Did the Ark sink on its maiden voyage?

So much for "highly trained professionals "

[NuclearDem]

18. That would be what he was saying, yes.

[Rex]

20. No and that is his point, you leave thing to the pros and they fuck it up.

Noah OTOH, knew nothing about shipbuilding or sailing. IOW he wants to pretend having less experience is a proven positive and history proves it!

NM the fact that one is fiction and the other non-fiction.

[A HERETIC I AM]

19. Ben Carson of course, was baked by Elves in a large tree.

Since he stopped performing surgery on a regular basis, did he just regress to being a fucking nitwit?

That whole side concerns me. Too much stupidity.

[Rex]

21. He thinks evolution was created by the devil. Because we are made out of dirt and a spare rib.

Total fucking nitwit.

[A HERETIC I AM]

23. "It is just as dignified to be a modified monkey as it is to be modified dirt"

- Someone who is better at quotes than I am

[Rex]

26. What gets me really

is that it is MORE PLAUSABLE to some that we are made out of clay and a spare rib, than out of some chemical ooze in a prehistoric ocean somewhere!

Have they never left a lobster in the frig for too long!? It grows into an entirely new species!




Don't leave things in the fridge!

[0rganism]

46. rock lobster!

[Fumesucker]

86. I've seen an entire damn biosphere in an erstwhile shrimp container before

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

25. DUzy

[hifiguy]

36. Defintely a DUzy!

We really need a DUzy button.

Are we really sure he wasn't actually a tree surgeon instead of a brain surgeon?

"Tell me doctor, have you ever fallen out of one of your patients?" - Groucho Marx, to a tree-surgeon contestant on You Bet Your Life

[SwankyXomb]

71. He's this kind of brain surgeon

[hifiguy]

72. OMG,

PERFECT!

Kicking myself for not thinking of that! One of the funniest Python sketches ever, and that's saying something.



Ben's brain hurts, too. Is that first Gumby Jeb or Cruz?

[Kelvin Mace]

27. The imaginary starship I built in my backyard

work flawlessly, and its presence has kept the Earth safe from Klingons, Daleks, BEMs, Xenomorphs, The Invaders, It, Them, Legions of Kaiju, divisions of goblins, battalions of orcs, brigades of balrogs, and Zontar the Thing from Venus.

Your welcome.

[hifiguy]

29. Ooh. I want a ride!

Does it have warp drive, too?

[Kelvin Mace]

32. Of course it does.

And none of that new-fangled "transwarp" crap either, a proper warp drive.

I'll pick you up just as soon as we deal with Cthulhu. Seems global warming woke it up again, and you know how cranky it is when it hasn't had its blood sacrifice.

[hifiguy]

39. All I can say is

[ProfessorGAC]

34. Please!

You don't have a big enough backyard for a starship! I've transported into your backyard and i know!

[Kelvin Mace]

66. Dude, you missed the hangar

It's UNDER my lawn. I have an army of gophers on guard duty. Use the passphrase "Gort, barada niktu!" And they'll give you a tour.

[NuclearDem]

38. Yeah, well...

I'm gonna go build my own imaginary starship.

With blackjack. And hookers!

In fact, forget the ship!

[hifiguy]

28. Anyone who seriously believes a

700-year old man built a wooden ship the size of six or seven modern football stadia with a wooden hammer and a copper chisel should be locked up in an extremely secure facility with tall walls that have razor wire at the top. And receiving a horse-sized suppository of Thorazine or Haldol four times a day.

And I am not kidding, even a little.

[GeorgeGist]

75. Not sure Carson isn't self-medicating on thorazine.

[hifiguy]

76. He has the zombie shuffle

and completely zoned-out demeanor that is characteristic of Thorazine, that's for sure.

[Yavin4]

40. "Critics have questioned whether it makes sense to elect him president."

There's no question. The man is a flaming idiot.

[tanyev]

41. No Ben, the Titanic was built by people who didn't fully understand the SCIENCE of metallurgy.

The story of the ark is as reliable as the stories of flying carpets.

[hifiguy]

42. Disney isn't true?

[tanyev]

43. Sorry, no. And this didn't happen, either.

[hifiguy]

47. LOL!

That's surprising, given all that elephant shit one sees falling out of the sky at the "debates."

[Rex]

48. Shhhhhh! Don't ever say that out loud!

[Rex]

49. 'He sounds like some twentysomething hack blogger.'

[Rex]

52. That was...and interesting sub-thread.

See why I just cannot stay serious here? Too many people saying too many silly things to be taken seriously. Even when they want to be.

I guess they are mad that these lefty libertarians will be voting in the D column? Otherwise, I got nothing. One thing I've learned here over the years - libertarians are hated when not needed to make a point and loved when needed to make a point.

[Rex]

57. It is all in understanding the difference between X and XY.

Some here won't even approach that conversation, it might make them THINK. So OF COURSE to them a libertarian is a libertarian is a libertarian...just like a neoliberal MUST BE a liberal! What difference does three letters make?

I hear ya...way too much time and energy!

[Rex]

61. Now you done it! Red crayon for you!

You were getting the good, blue crayon on the chart...but not anymore! No doubt you will be stripped of all your gold stars!

[Rex]

64. Meanwhile they all have been in timeoutland at one time or another.

They came close once and I was at 4, got some PMs from a few of them already celebrating my forced vacation...didn't happen and now I'm back down to 2.

[Rex]

67. I think some of us are in agreement that honest discussion and fun replies

beats out all the dour seriousness of a campaign and burning every single bridge that exists to score points. I still like a lot of them, they are just human after all. I'm glad there are others here that can have fun with a conversation, without tearing down the other person to reach smirk factor 11.

[Lizzie Poppet]

54. Pssst...nobody tell Ben the Ark is just pretend.

Or next thing you know, he'll be questioning Santa Claus.

[Warpy]

55. Hey, Ben! The Ark is a fairy story. The Titanic was built by capitalists who cut corners

Yeah, they've found substandard steel and riveting and a flaw in the keel that caused it to break apart as it sank. The ship was too big and the rudder too small and there were too few lifeboats.

[KamaAina]

56. Funny, I don't remember any of that from the movie

[TheSarcastinator]

63. this may be true of his career as professional pediatric neurosurgeon, after all

I think he left a sponge in his own brain.

[0rganism]

68. 0rganism: the ark is a Bronze Age Myth, the Titanic was built

i would point to that as the primary difference between the two, and claim that it obviates the secondary difference noted by Dr. Carson.

the primary similarity? both have gone on to be the basis for successful movies and history channel documentaries

[VMA131Marine]

69. The builders of the Titanic are mostly irrelevant to its sinking

Titanic's near identical sister ship, Olympic went on to a long and illustrious career so there was nothing inherently wrong with the design. The Ark (if it had been real) would have sunk too if driven into an iceberg at 20 knots

[JI7]

70. this seems to indicate he is purposely dumbing it down for a certain crowd

We make fun of him but the fact is that he has been doing pretty well among those whose support he needs.

[WestSeattle2]

74. The dude seriously believes the Noah's Ark crap?!! You just

can't make this stuff up! I recall we knew that story was bullshit by the time we were ten years old, and figured out that two of each of the millions of creatures on the Earth could not possibly fit in a boat. Good grief.

How on earth did this man become a brain surgeon? Really. What were his grades?

[thereismore]

77. So that means when I need brain surgery I should go to an amateur brain surgeon? Huh? nt

[struggle4progress]

78. It's so good to see Dr Carson taking a stand on important current issues like this!

I think my friends and I were discussing precisely this controversy just the other night, before we all blacked out from drinking

[krispos42]

79. The "Titanic" worked just find until it hit an iceberg.

Human error did her in, even though more could have been done with the design of the watertight sections.

And more lifeboats.

But the ship worked just fine. Mechanically, electrically, staff-wise, etc.

[Mendocino]

85. There are an estimated

8.7 million species of animals on the earth today, double that for to provide a mate. Since the bible states that Noah took every species that is alive today, that is 17.4 million. So Noah and his family, about a dozen people took care of all these animals, carrying all sorts of special food stores and fresh water, and collected and disposed of thousands of pounds of waste daily, provided special habitats for creatures such as bats, polar bears and tanks for whales, pens for livestock, cages for birds, large enclosures for elephants, giraffes, bison....etc. Plus add in all the species that have become extinct since he took all living animals at the time, perhaps increasing the number a minimum hundred fold or more. Then there is Geology, Meteorology, Physics, Biology that contradict all of Noah's legend.

I don't want to trod upon peoples beliefs, but be reasonable, this is a fable and a fun little story, nothing more.

For Carson, supposedly man of science , to actually cite Noah is just one more example of his disconnect from reality.

[KamaAina]

88. Well, most of those species are insects

[Mendocino]

89. Well

somebody has to think of the bugs!!!