VW Scandal much worse than most know..Cars gave off pollution 40 times legal rate

[Stuart G]

http://www.businessfinancenews.com/24264-volkswagen-ag-adr-stock-tumbles-as-epa-issues-notice/

EPA and the state of California accused the company for using emissions control software that can significantly reduce Nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions when cars go through the emission test. According to EPA, using software or other means to evade US emission standards is illegal and a threat to human health. Furthermore it claims, that since 2008, four-cylinder diesel models of Volkswagen and Audi have not been meeting the standards for certain air pollutants and emit 40 times more than the approved level.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The article above is about the original EPA notice. It says that VW cheating was 40 times worse than legal...I looked back on some of the posts here, and I didn't see how bad the cheating was. It was very bad. This could really wreck this company. By looking back at the original story with the above link, I didn't know it was this bad. I suspect many did know, but the posts here did not include the information. Some perhaps did not know the extent of the cheating. So here it is.. Who knows what will happen? And it went on for more than 7 full years..

[pnwmom]

1. And I read yesterday that when Bosch company delivered them the cheating software

in 2007, they warned VW not to use it to evade the emissions standards.

So the Bosch company is in the clear . . .

[Stuart G]

2. So, VW was warned, before anything had happend, not to do what they did

So, yesterday's news highlights the culpability of a company that had a very honest reputation.. That company evidently deliberately decided to break the rules instead of fix the problem. For 8 years it got away with it. .

I did not read that yesterday..I wonder if that news got out to most readers?

[Justice]

6. I also read that; why would Bosch create and/or provide cheating software? Seems fishy

Why would Bosch create such software? What is its use for test purposes?

Why deliver it to a customer?

Was Bosch paid a royalty for its use?

[HooptieWagon]

7. That's part of the story that hasn't been explained yet.

[jmowreader]

18. Diesel pollution control is very complex

My thought is, if the engine isn't running right and the mechanic wants to eliminate/confirm the smog control system as the source of the problem, he would use this software to turn it off. After he got the answer he sought, he would then turn it back on.

[MH1]

8. VW wanted to avoid $335 per car, cost of meeting US emission standards

without using the "test" software to cheat in their production cars.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/report-bosch-warned-vw-about-diesel-emissions-cheating-in-2007/


It comes down to a Ford Pinto story, adjusted for inflation (ok, maybe a small markup also).

[Wilms]

11. Re: "(ok, maybe a small markup also)"

Comments like that make this place great, IMHO.

[pnwmom]

14. Also, meeting the US emissions standards lowered its cars' performance.

That was probably the bigger factor.

[global1]

3. Will There Be A Class Action Suit Against VW By VW Owners?......nt

[Stuart G]

4. No one knows yet. In another article I read, this affected 11 million cars.

In addition many Audis were affected. Evidently, although I am not sure, dealers did not know about this either. One story stated that it all came out of VW headquarters in Germany.. sorry, I don't have that link..

[Justice]

5. There are already multiple actions filed in multiple states

[Octafish]

9. Gosh. I bet VW's the only company that would do such a thing.

Apart from a Big Bank, Telco, Pharma, etc etc etc, I mean.

[gratuitous]

10. This sounds like a case ripe for the death penalty

Nine years of polluting the earth, knowingly and willfully. Nine years of dirtier air, contributing to who knows how many deaths, in the name of an extra few hundred dollars per vehicle. Nine years of deception and fraud to enrich the folks at the top of the corporate ladder.

If ever the death penalty was warranted for a corporation, this would seem like it. Volkswagen should be placed into receivership, its assets liquidated, debts paid to creditors, and anything left over paid out to non-exempt employees who will be losing their jobs.

[Logical]

12. LOL, how GOP of you. Death penalty I never ok. nt

[MH1]

17. The poster was referring to the "death penalty" for a corporation, not a person.

Did you read the body of the post?

Or do you think that corporations that act egregiously should never have the ultimate penalty applied, essentially losing their legal right to exist?

(To be honest I'm not sure it's a great solution, due to affect on workers. But it's not the same as applying the death penalty to actual persons. Which I am against, also.)

[hunter]

13. I'm having trouble getting excited about this story.

It's like which poison would you rather drink? CO₂ or NO_X?

No thanks to all.

Automobiles are nasty. Our automobile culture is nasty.

The sooner it dies, the better.

We could build communities where, for most people, owning a car is unnecessary, even undesirable.

When my wife and I met we were Los Angeles commuters. That lifestyle sucked. I remember days it would take me more than an hour to drive home from work, less than twenty miles on a freeway. Most days the speed limit was an imaginary number; you'd be stuck in stop-and-go traffic breathing exhaust fumes, never even approaching the speed limit.

My wife and I escaped that hell in the mid-eighties, and by some planning and a lot of good fortune haven't been commuters since. I work mostly at home, we live on a hill and we can see my wife's work from our house.

It's not all perfect, we still live in a society where we have to be automobile drivers to be considered fully functional adults. My wife and I own two cars, but I can't imagine any circumstance where I would choose to be an automobile commuter, or ever buy a new car.

My own car is a worthless underpowered four cylinder piece of shit with a salvage title. We paid $800 for it. If someone gave me a new car, hell, even a Tesla, I'd give it away as quick as I could to someone who cared about cars.

[pnwmom]

15. There was no reason for these cars to pollute the air with excessive levels of either one.

The reason they did what they did was because it gave the driver better "performance" -- i.e., a more enjoyable driving experience.

[hunter]

16. The excess of nitrogen oxides resulted in less carbon dioxide emissions...

...and "a more enjoyable driving experience."

NO_X is a fast acting poison, CO₂ is a slow acting poison.

I do believe Volkswagen should be punished for cheating, and this is very good cause to thoroughly investigate all automobile manufacturers.

Gaming engine control software these days is just too damned easy. I'm fairly certain worse will be found in gasoline powered cars, if any government regulators are brave enough to investigate.

[pnwmom]

19. Yeah, they should be subjecting all makes and models to better testing.

I doubt that this is limited to VW.

Though BMW came out smelling like a rose in these tests. Their vehicle was pitted against the VW vehicles in the initial tests, and did just fine.