BREAKING: Jeb Bush throws away 65% of GOP base!!! NO CHANCE AT NOMINATION NOW!!!!

[MohRokTah]

The GOP base will NEVER forgive this:

Jeb Hits Trump: Obama Is 'American' And 'A Christian'

Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush (R) on Friday night bashed his fellow Republican presidential candidate, Donald Trump, who did not correct a man who said President Obama is a Muslim and was not born in the U.S.

"Barack Obama is a talented man -- and by the way he's an American, he's a Christian -- his problem isn't the fact that he was born here or what his faith is," Bush said in a Michigan speech, according to the Washington Post. "His problem is that he's a progressive liberal who tears down anybody that disagrees with him."

When asked later if Trump should have apologized, Buch said he "spoke to it" during his speech, according to the Post.

Trump got into hot water on Thursday night when an audience member at a New Hampshire town hall asked the real estate mogul about "training camps" for Muslims, stating that Obama himself is a Muslim. Trump nodded along during the question, and did not correct the man's assertions about Obama.

...

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/jeb-bush-trump-obama-muslim?utm_content=buffer5217b&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[Mass]

1. Good for him. This will not make me support him, but I appreciate!

[Fred Sanders]

2. I think laughing at someone telling the truth is the opposite of mock-worthy.

Not all Republicans are all bad....just the crazy religious ones and the fascist's.

The GOP "base" may not forgive, but they easily forget.

[MohRokTah]

3. Right, a majority of the GOP voters.

I'm laughing because doing the right thing in the GOP is a sure fire way to never win the nomination.

[Fred Sanders]

4. I think on this specific topic and specific comment it is not fatal because the truth is plain.

No more votes on this issue to reap as there were in the last two elections, and Obama is not running.

[Tipperary]

12. Thank you for this post.

I agree with you.

[Shoulders of Giants]

5. I actually don't think Obama is a Christian.

I'm guessing he's secretly non-religious like many presidents that come before him (and many current members of congress). However, you're better off being a child molester than being an atheist if you want to run for office, so everyone, liberal or conservative, toes the religious line.

[hlthe2b]

8. If he says he is Christian, I don't think any of us have the right to question... Him or anyone else

He may be non-religious at heart--which is fine by me, but he still has the right to define himself in this regard.

[Shoulders of Giants]

14. I question everything.

Last edited Sat Sep 19, 2015, 01:37 PM - Edit history (1)

All politicians are professional liars, and that includes the "good" ones. Not that lying is a bad thing. It can be the right thing to do under utilitarian ethics (which almost all politicians have) if it produces more good than bad. For example, I have no question Obama was lying about his opposition to gay marriage until the polls allowed him to come out in support of it. However, his lying was what lead to him being able to become president in the first place and appoint two justices to the Supreme Court which helped overturn the various bans on gay marriage. So therefore, his lying actually produced a societal good.


Obama comes from a non religious household, is the only president in history to talk about acceptance of non believers, and didn't find religion until he came into politics in his community organizing days. I can't be certain of this ever, but Obama is one of the politicians I think has one of the strongest chances of being non religious. I put the odds at over 50% myself.

15% of the population claims to be nonreligious of some sort (in truth its even higher, because many non religious are afraid to come out, even to pollsters.) However 99% of national level politicians claim some sort of religion. Politicians are also in general much more educated than the general population, and there is an inverse correlation between level of education and religiosity. Therefore, 99% of elected politicians being religious simply doesn't add up. I believe lying would account for most of the discrepancy, because its nearly impossible to get elected in this country as an atheist, unless you have the greatest gerrymandered district possible. Again, I'm not saying lying is a bad thing, and basically all politicians are liars in this country on both sides of the aisle. However, our system pretty much requires it, especially when it comes to religion.

[hlthe2b]

29. Guess what. YOU don't get to be the arbitor of everyone else.

You don't get to define me in this regard, nor do you have the right to do so with anyone else. One's beliefs are their own and each has the right to define those beliefs for themselves.

[Shoulders of Giants]

32. I'm not the arbiter of anything.

However, I'm simply trying to perceive reality as best as I can. And many times, how people publicly define themselves isn't what reality actually is. That may sound bad, but it is the truth. And I fully admit I may be wrong and he may actually believe in Christianity. However, I know he would commit career suicide if he came out as an atheist (or even non religious) so simply asking him if he isn't enough to get a definite for the same reasons asking Isaac Newton if he is a Christian isn't enough to know if he was really a Christian (to be fair, he faced much tougher consequences if he came out as an atheist). However, even if I'm wrong on Obama, I have no question there are many secret atheists, agnostics, non-religious, etc in office. The numbers simply wouldn't make sense for it not to be that way. However, its hard to pin point who they are.


So my post is merely stating my hypothesis and my reasons for it. You may disagree with it, and that's your choice. However, I would strongly recommend not believing everything everyone says about themselves, especially if they face dire consequences (as in the case of a politician who comes out as an atheist) if they say something else.

[smirkymonkey]

36. +1000

[MADem]

33. Not entirely non-religious. He did not know his father but he knew his stepfather.

His stepfather brought him to masjid and enrolled him in the Islamic curriculum in his grammar school in Indonesia, so he had that exposure for a few years.

He attended, and was on the membership rolls of, a Christian church while he was a community organizer and legislator in Chicago.

His grandmother's burial was Christian.

He's had plenty of "faith based" exposure throughout his life.

What "is" he? Maybe he's a smorgasborder, taking a bit from here, a bit from there -- not my concern, really. I don't worry about what people profess, I worry about how they act towards others.

[Shoulders of Giants]

34. Yeah he had exposure to religion.

Everyone does, but Obama is unique in that he had exposure to most religions. However, his mother was basically agnostic. He did meet his dad a couple of times though, who identified as an atheist. I'm sure Obama has come to respect religion, but I'm thinking the odds that Obama believes Jesus is literally the son of God who died for our sins (which is how I define Christianity) to be pretty low.

[MADem]

35. There are many people in the world who have had exposure to most religions.

They just don't live in USA, many of them. Spend time in Jerusalem and you get the basics of the top three in no time.

His mother married two Muslims, and the 2nd one was devout--I wouldn't presume to speak to her religious beliefs, or lack of same--without some commanding proof.

Obama's Kenyan grandmama has done the pilgrimage to Mecca more than once. She did umrah (non-hajj pilgrimage) just a few months back. Every time she goes she prays for the conversion of Barack to "return to" Islam (if your father is Muslim, so are you--that is how it works--and, there are no 'atheists' in Islam, even self-declared ones...the thinking is they are just confused).

I think some things can certainly be material for speculation, but when we just do not KNOW, we'd do well to not presume. Even if Obama did regard himself as Christian, he could be one as HE defines the faith, without all that "son of God" caveat that you're putting on him. Maybe, to him, a "Christian" is someone who tries to live by certain teachings of a guy named Jesus.

But again--he's the one who would have to tell us--if he felt like it.

[dumbcat]

17. Am I to understand

That you don't think any of us have the right to question anything anyone says that seeks to define themselves? Really? Is that what you said?

Or are you only speaking of religion?

[hlthe2b]

27. I speak to one's self-professed religious beliefs (or lack thereof), which I believe to be personal

Those here who would question the self-professed religious beliefs that Obama states he follows are being as disrespectful, imo, as the Republicans who question similarly, wanting to smear him.

Bottom line, I don't care if he is of any particular religion nor similarly, if he is atheist. But he gets to define himself--not anyone else.

[dumbcat]

46. OK, I get it

It's only about Obama.

Those here who would question the self-professed religious beliefs that Obama states he follows are being as disrespectful, imo, as the Republicans who question similarly, wanting to smear him.

Bottom line, I don't care if he is of any particular religion nor similarly, if he is atheist. But he gets to define himself--not anyone else.

[hlthe2b]

47. No, it is not only about Obama. As stated earlier very very clearly.. (if you were not of a mind

to ignore what I actually said), I believe everyone has the right to define/profess their own beliefs with respect to religion, agnosticism, or atheism. He self-defines as Christian; Birthers scream that he is "Muslim"; Some on the left, likewise say he is lying when he professes to be Christian and demand that he is "atheist". Both are disrespectful in doing so, whether to Obama or anyone else.

[dumbcat]

48. And no one should EVER be questioned

as to anything they say that is self-defining. Got it. Moving on.

(Did I mention, I am the Son of Thor?)

[hlthe2b]

49. well...

I can appreciate your screen name..

[dumbcat]

50. Typical

and as expected.

[Fred Sanders]

9. Your "guesses" are as worthwhile as your conclusions....now that was hilarious stuff!

Any "guesses" on where Obama was born?

[Shoulders of Giants]

15. He was born in Hawaii.

See my reply to hlthe2b for my reasons.

[Fred Sanders]

16. I already know your reasons, recent poster. This is DU.

[Shoulders of Giants]

18. I assume this is some sort of way of saying I'm trolling or something.

Hey I post what I think, and if I get banned, I get banned. Life goes on. If you have a problem with something I said, let me know, and I'll defend it.

[progressoid]

21. Yup.

Don't worry about Fred. He's mostly harmless.

A belated Welcome to DU.

[dumbcat]

19. More " recent poster" bigotry?

Sigh.

[book_worm]

23. I don't question what he says

just because some of us on DU are not Christians doesn't mean that Obama secretly isn't one.

[Shoulders of Giants]

25. See my reply up above for the reasons.

There is every reason to question what someone says if they would be committing career suicide if they said the opposite. That is what nearly every politician would be doing if they came out as an atheist. I'm not saying I'm 100% percent sure he's a secret atheist. I'm just saying if I were a gambling man, that would be what I'd gamble on in this case. Too be fair, I'd do the same with Donald Trump as well, and many politicians.

[Blasphemer]

24. Well... I've been here for 11+ years...

and I agree with you. Similarly, most of them who have claimed at various points to be against gay marriage only to eventually "evolve" are totally FOS. Their personas and positions are often politically calculated and NONE of them are "pure" - once you enter the political arena, at least some deception is required.

[Shoulders of Giants]

26. This is why I could never enter politics.

I realize all politicians are playing this game. However, I'd rather they be playing the game on our side like Obama is, then against us like say Romney is.

[Blasphemer]

28. Agreed... nt

[LittleBlue]

38. I feel the same way

The ease with which he dumped his old church seemed to indicate indifference

I wonder how many presidents are secretly atheist or agnostic.

[Orsino]

42. Yep. Christianity or Judaism is with few exceptions a prerequisite for office.

I'm not impressed by professions, but the president's statements of faith are no more out of step with his actions than is typical for a Chief Executive. Less so, probably, but he might as well be non-religious.

[BadgerKid]

6. Uh oh, that'll make the frat boys mad.

However they have many other stupid memes to bond over.

[hlthe2b]

7. Not lauging here... I cringe at Jeb getting anywhere near the WH, but he did the right thing here.

That this may hurt him only underscores what bottom-feeders the primary Republican electorate are.

[RandySF]

10. He's a Bush

The family syndicate will find a way.

[Laffy Kat]

13. You're right. God help us. nt

[Javaman]

11. bush is behind the polls. he's trying to appear as "the rational one"...

give it time, he put his foot back in his mouth.

[AlinPA]

20. But the GOP base wants that birther stuff, so he just lost a lot of their support.

[Sunlei]

31. Both were into Florida real estate deals. Wonder if or when Trump will produce some real dirt?

[Marrah_G]

40. Next to Trump in the debates Jeb looked like the normal rational choice

It makes me wonder if Trump isn't in the race just to make some of the others look sane.

[book_worm]

22. When does Obama tear down anybody who disagrees with him?

I mean he was doing OK until he got to that part.

[Sunlei]

30. I didn't think Trump would let Bush use and dominate him, like a stepping stone.

[Gothmog]

37. Jeb is appealing to the sane members of the GOP base

The trouble is that the sane members are outnumbered

[senseandsensibility]

39. Could it BE more obvious that the trump "thing" is theater

designed to make jebby look reasonable? Some of us have been onto this for months.

[Marrah_G]

41. I think that has to be it

But it might backfire and he might get the nomination. THAT would be a disaster for the Republicans.

[TheKentuckian]

44. The problem with that is JEB wasn't suffering from not seeming reasonable enough

So I'm not sure what cure it is.

[stevenleser]

45. Exactly. Again, this is more folks applying Dem logic to a Repug nomination race

It doesn't work.

If it was all about appearing reasonable, Huntsman would have been the 'pug nominee in 2012.

The Republican nomination isn't about appearing reasonable.

[lindysalsagal]

43. Jeb's achilles heel: He's reality based, some of the time.

He's thinking about appealing to rational people, including independents in the Nov. election. But the party won't tolerate it. Just like his rational stance on mexicans. He's too rational to be a GOP.

The funny thing is, he might actually decide to go dem one of these days, because the GOP base has deserted him. Even if he waits out Trump, he's done. Stick a fork in him.

[DetlefK]

51. He's trying to become the next Romney.

The in-offensive boring suit that everybody will compromise on when it turns out that the other candidates are just too fringe to win a national election.