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Quackers

(2,256 posts)
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 09:00 AM Sep 2015

Go ahead, admit you're a racist



(CNN)A group of women were chatting and laughing together like old friends when the subject turned to race.

One of them said she was amazed that Donald Trump, while running for president, could get away with describing Mexican immigrants as "rapists" and "killers."

"If you kick every Latino out of this country," another chimed in, "then who is going to be cleaning your toilet, Donald Trump?"

Someone gasped and there was an awkward pause. One of the group was of Puerto Rican descent and two others were African-American. They were all panelists on the ABC show, "The View," and their conversation before a studio audience was being broadcast live.

The woman whose comment derailed the perky talk-show banter was reality TV star Kelly Osbourne, who is white. She later took to Twitter to "take responsibility for my poor choice of words," but added, "I will not apologize for being a racist as I am NOT."

More at link:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/02/us/admitting-racism/index.html

Interesting read. So is racism something we can't escape do to society's preconceived notions? Sure there are people who are flat-out racist, but what about those of us, (all of us?), that have preconceived generalizations about others? How do we improve this as a species and is it possible to eliminate racism/sexism/otherisms completely?
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Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
1. I don't know why it's hard to admit. I have racist thoughts based in stereotypes. You
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 09:02 AM
Sep 2015

can't acknowledge it and work on it until you recognize it. The work then comes from not turning thoughts into action -- and then ignoring the thoughts when they arise.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
2. Osborne highlights one effect of the general corrosiveness of white privilege - stereotyping without knowing it.
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 09:08 AM
Sep 2015

Osborne is not racist, she is a victim of the white privilege virus.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
3. Someone who automatically associates "Latinos" with "cleaning out toilets" is not a racist?
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 09:18 AM
Sep 2015

You are more charitable than I am.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
4. I have seen many examples of not racist folks not realizing they possess white privilege until it is gently pointed out to them.
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 09:22 AM
Sep 2015

White privilege is not racism......being possessed of white privilege is not an individual insult just as being possessed of any physical virus is not reflective of the morals of the infected person.... whites are very confused about that.

Racism is on the opposite end of the spectrum from white privilege....racism is a choice, white privilege is not.


Osborne could have uttered the same words to a group of white folk and no one would have even realized what she said was insulting to Hispanics, Osborne would have had here white privilege reinforced...but the truth is pointed out by anyone without the infection....the insult becomes clear.

White privilege is a mental virus and it is everywhere but it is easily treatable in non-racists.

All you need sometimes is a little adjustment to the mental gear ratios and taking the mind off preset automatic drive.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
11. Statistically discrimination
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 12:43 PM
Sep 2015

The most common example of what statistically discrimination is why there would be more hiring of women as nurses, examples in football

--

Statistical discrimination is an economic theory of racial or gender inequality based on stereotypes. According to this theory, inequality may exist and persist between demographic groups even when economic agents (consumers, workers, employers, etc.) are rational and non-prejudiced. This type of preferential treatment is labeled "statistical" because stereotypes may be based on the discriminated group's average behavior.

<snip>

The theory posits that in the absence of direct information about a certain fact of ability, a decision maker would substitute group averages. For instance, labor market discrimination may exist because employers don't know with certainty workers' ability, therefore they may resort to basing employment decisions on the workers' visible features, such as group identity, as long as these features correlate with some desirable but more difficult to measure trait. The result is that atypical individuals from the disadvantaged group suffer unfair discrimination.[3] This type of discrimination can result in a self-reinforcing vicious circle over time, as the atypical individuals from the discriminated group are discouraged from participating in the market,[4] or improving their skills as their (average) return on investment (education etc.) is less than for the non-discriminated group.[5]

A related form of (theorized) statistical discrimination is based on group variances, assuming equal averages. For discrimination to occur in this scenario, the decision maker needs to be risk averse; such a decision maker will prefer the group with the lower variance.[6] Even assuming two theoretically identical group distributions (in all respects, including average and variance), a risk averse decision maker will prefer the group for which a measurement (test) exists that minimizes the error term.[6] For example, if two groups, A and B, have theoretically identical distributions of test scores well above the average for the entire population, but group A's estimate is considered more reliable because a large amount of data may be available for group A in comparison to group B, then if two people, one from A and one from B apply for a job, using statistical discrimination, A is hired, because it is perceived that his group score is a more reliable estimate, so a risk-averse decision maker sees group B's group score as more likely to be luck. Conversely, if the two groups are below average, B is hired, because group A's negative score is believed to be a better estimate.

Statistical discrimination is often used and tolerated, for example, when older people are charged more for life insurance, or when a college diploma is required for a job (because it is believed that college graduates perform, on average, better). Some well-documented instances of statistical discrimination for involuntary group membership also do exist and are tolerated. For example, many countries allow auto insurance companies to charge men and women with identical driving records different rates (or factor in gender when deciding whether to deny coverage). The same society may not tolerate statistical discrimination when it is applied to protected groups. For example, it has been suggested that home mortgage lending discrimination against African Americans, which is illegal in the United States, may be partly caused by statistical discrimination.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_discrimination_%28economics%29

Sports have well-known examples of this for a long time black quarterbacks out of high school or college were moved to the outsides, backfield, receivers, perceived as speedy and whatever reasoning (false) why they couldn't play. Statistically discrimination is still fairly common in baseball with blacks relegated to outfield positions while the infield positions go elsewhere and I think the number of overall pitchers black/white/other are similar but higher rates of white pitchers are starters while higher averages of black pitchers spend their careers as relief. From they describe this is reinforced from high school to the minor leagues.

Not saying is or isn't racist as far as the association with the toilet example, reminded of statistical discrimination which there are many examples of, but I don't think in her case because she was trying to make a point with Donald Trump who is saying "rapists" or this or that when in reality or around here in Arizona those sort of jobs which there aren't many as Arizona ranks last in job recovery since the "great recession" there would be white people too in janitorial, construction, or anything else but I don't think it would be in inaccurate example to make based on the racism of those that hire the people, promote, appoint whoever. He says "rapists" and I think the point she was attempting to make is rather than "rapists" or the other thing he said that they are just like most of any of us just trying to make it through day-to-day lives working the jobs that are available when they're available but probably wrong to assume to assume the person that cleans his toilet his Hispanic but I don't think she meant that literally.

---This is Arizona

The current selection system excludes broad public input. Maricopa County, with 60.5 percent of the state's population, of which 30 percent, (1,987,987), are of Hispanic/Latino descent, has one Hispanic commissioner. Pima County, with 15 percent of the state's population and 36 percent Hispanic/Latino, has one Hispanic commissioner. Pinal County, with 6 percent of the population and 29 percent Hispanic/Latino, has one Hispanic commissioner. No Hispanics sit as Appellate Court commissioners. The state is 30 percent Hispanic/Latino; Hispanic Commissioners — 4 percent.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2014/09/23/arizonas-judicial-review-system-fair/16119391/

In a way I think she was attempting to point something like this he is saying this when in she was trying to say in reality it this. She could be working of her own experiences or she very well could be racist. I don't know. Just the example alone doesn't say one way or the other for me.

Orrex

(63,215 posts)
5. I got stuck watching The View a few weeks ago
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 09:48 AM
Sep 2015

If I could have come up with a way to decapiate myself instead, I would happily have chosen that option.

What Obsourne said was poorly considered, but I've seen exactly the same meme dozens of times in the past week or so. There's a popular one right now featuring Barney Fife asking Trump who will build the wall he plans to erect to keep Mexican immigrants out.

Comedians have been using that line for years. Osbourne shouldn't be singled out for it.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
6. I don't know, I think she was getting at an idea
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 10:18 AM
Sep 2015

rather than attempting to say every Latino cleans toilets. She was being sympathetic to the immigrants taking these tough low level jobs. It's not Latinos who do those jobs, but immigrants (as they always have, when they were white too). And not all those immigrants are Latino. She could have gotten away with it had she used the term immigrants.

The anti-immigrant arguers like to make an analogy about breaking into your house. The immigrants are people who are breaking into a house. But then a lot of them clean the house or work the lawn.

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
9. I think everyone is racist at some point, if even just in thought
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 11:59 AM
Sep 2015

I think the biggest thing is getting people to admit it and see it within themselves so they can change those thoughts. What Kelly showed was not just because she is white, but also because she is rich. Someone like myself, also a white woman, would never have a thought like that, because we clean our own houses.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
10. Try to be aware of white biases in ourselves.
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 12:15 PM
Sep 2015

Take time to examine what your role is in the racial hierarchy in the US, and see if there are places where you might be allowing your biases to affect your behavior, even unconsciously.

As a teacher, I try to make sure I keep my classroom fair by not letting white kids get away with things that kids of color might get corrected over. Go over my grades, make sure I haven't done things like give higher grades to all the white kids.

It's accepting that racism doesn't always mean you use slurs and wear a sheet, but that you and I (if white) grew up in a system of white supremacy, and that you might be the nicest person in the world, and still might be doing things you are totally unaware of.

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