Judge In California Delivers Uber’s Worst Nightmare (Good, we need more of this.)

[Luminous Animal]

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/09/01/3697798/uber-drivers-class-action-granted/

Uber’s business model is on the rocks late Tuesday after a federal judge granted class-action status to a lawsuit targeting the company’s treatment of drivers as independent contractors.


The case is one of several high-profile suits brought by drivers against the technology start-up that has displaced traditional taxis in many markets. A California labor board ruled against the company in a separate but similar case earlier this summer, in an administrative decision that does not bind the courts but outlined some weaknesses in Uber’s legal argument.

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Uber tried to persuade Judge Edward Chen that its relationships with drivers vary too much from individual to individual for the court to treat all its drivers as one class, and to consider whether they are employees or contractors collectively.
But Judge Chen notes that “there is inherent tension between this argument and Uber’s position on the merits” because Uber itself has treated the drivers as a uniform class by deeming every one of them to be a contractor. “Despite Uber’s argument to the contrary, there are numerous legally significant questions in this litigation that will have answers common to each class member that are apt to drive the resolution of the litigation,” Chen wrote

It was clear to me from the beginning that these type of "sharing" enterprises were just another way to screw over workers and by-pass regulations, taxes, and laws.

[Salviati]

1. Glad to hear about this...

Along with a similar ruling in a case involving McDonalds:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/28/business/labor-board-says-franchise-workers-can-bargain-with-parent-company.html

[Recursion]

2. Will cab companies have to stop making cab drivers 1099s?

Seems kind of unfair to single out Uber there.

[Fuddnik]

5. Cab drivers usually lease their vehicle for a flat rate, and are pretty independent.

[Recursion]

6. So they're even more exploited then Uber drivers, since they're paying their "employer"

I don't see how this argument applies to Uber but not to a cab company

[mhatrw]

10. Nor do I. Could someone please explain?

[Orrex]

12. Maybe they should shut up because they're the world's elite 1%

Last edited Wed Sep 2, 2015, 09:31 AM - Edit history (1)

[Recursion]

13. UberX drivers average like $40K nationwide I think

But, my question was why cabbies aren't considered employees, not how rich Uber drivers are.

[Orrex]

15. Just yesterday you were calling out American 1% snobbery

Now you're defending the lowly Uber driver. Golly, you choose weird and inconsistent battles.

[Recursion]

17. And today I'm asking why Uber drivers get protections cabbies don't

And not seeing much in the way of a response.

[Orrex]

19. You mean, why do Uber drivers have to maintain their own vehicles?

Because that's the much-lauded business model of this obnoxious and anti-worker corporation, of course.

Cab drivers lease their vehicles, but they are purchased, maintained and fueled by the company. I've worked jobs where I had to pay a per-paycheck fee for the uniform, which is much the same thing. In fact, I had to launder my own uniform, so I guess I was getting screwed all those years without realizing it. Where were you when I needed you in my corner?

[Recursion]

20. Cabbies lease; Uber drivers own

Leasing is, as always, a pretty exploitative deal for the lessor.

Also cabbies pay for gas, BTW, in every city I've looked at.

Now, back to my question: if Uber drivers should be considered employees rather than contractors (and I think they should) why does that argument not also apply to cabbies?

[Orrex]

22. I understand that fuel is reimbursed in at least some cities

Or there's a per-shift or per-week or per-month allotment for fuel, beyond which drivers pay for their own.

Do Uber drivers have to insure their own cabs? Do cab drivers?


More to the point, since Uber postures itself as being so fundamentally different from cab services, why do you think they should be considered the same?

[Recursion]

23. Because Uber's legal claim is complete BS. They're a cab service.

But I'm happy to see them take down the unbelievably corrupt medallion systems every city I've lived in is stuck with.

[Orrex]

24. Well now I have a confession to make.

All along I've read your posts on this subject as arguing in favor of the noble upstart company Uber, when in fact it appears that you're basically doing the opposite.

I'm all in favor of very strong worker protections and full union access, but I'm still not sure that what applies to Uber will necessarily apply to traditional cab services.


Uber and my own big nearby city Pittsburgh are totally BFFs, unfortunately.

[Recursion]

25. They present different problems

Though I do want to throw out there that the NTWA doesn't have any collective bargaining agreements, and isn't even strictly a "labor union" (AFL had to change their rules to let them affiliate because they're a contractors' association).

I haven't really seen a convincing argument that one or the other way is definitively worse for drivers (they're independent contractors either way). Uber takes money out of the city which is bad. But medallion cabs keep money in the city, where it's used to influence local politics and keep medallions artificially valuable. Pick your poison, I guess.

[passiveporcupine]

3. IF you don't have to think about it, Uber sounds like an interesting plan

But when you realize the impact it has on existing jobs, it's not good for anyone but the owners of UBER.

Even if uber drivers think it's good for them, anytime part time jobs replace needed full time jobs, it's not good for the society.

[Fuddnik]

4. And Uber treats drivers like shit.

I was one of Ubers first drivers in the Tampa Bay area last year. At first it wasn't a bad gig. decent rates, drive when you want. No daily lease payment. All transactions by credit card.

The no provision for tipping pissed me off. And you were expected to supply bottled water and beverages to riders out of your pocket.

Then the cut rates. And again. And again. Software updates, without warning, or explaining what it was doing. Software that supposedly came out, and never did. You could never talk to a human about a problem. Always e-mail, and it usually took days to NOT get the problem resolved.

After they cut rates to the bone, they kept saying you will make it up in volume (minus Ubers 20% + a driver fee that came off the top). Translation: Double your work and expenses, for the same money.

Then if you picked up a drunk or a jerk asshole who gave you a bad rating for no reason, you had no way to contest the rating, and if your average got hit too hard, you got suspended.

I drove a regular taxi for a few months, and I'd take that over Uber any day. The only downside was your first $140-150 every day went for expenses (lease and gas). And a lot of tips were higher than an Uber fare.

Fuck Uber.

[passiveporcupine]

9. Yep, it's kind like shpping jobs overseas to cheap workers

They have no way to fight for fair wages, and you just lost your full time job with bennies.

It's the way the 1% get rich.

[Recursion]

14. Uber drivers make more than cabbies, though

And they don't have to pay Uber for the privilege of working like cabbies do.

[closeupready]

21. This x 100. IMO, Uber paints itself as non-partisan, but it's as Republican in

its labor policies as most other such organizations.

[Recursion]

8. Cab driving is not a "job", though

I've been looking for a while and I can't find a single city in the US where cab drivers are W-2 employees of a cab company. Maybe they exist in some smaller markets, but I'm not finding them. Cab drivers, like Uber drivers, are independent contractors, which the difference that most cab drivers don't own the cars. Why wouldn't the same argument apply to them?

[seaglass]

11. I'm not sure what I think about Uber except to say that I know both of my kids and their friends use

Uber as the designated driver, so it is beneficial in that sense. We live in the suburbs and using a cab is not a familiar practice. They all have the Uber app on their phones so it makes it easy to use.

[SunSeeker]

7. Good. nt

[kiva]

16. Good.

One DUer's experience (with comments from others): http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018794007

Setting aside the sketchy background checks and questions about insurance, Uber doesn't require that its drivers be able to accommodate passengers with handicaps or with service animals, and pretty much everything I've read indicates that their drivers don't end up with the money that the company claims they will earn.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. Among other things, Uber has a terrible reputation in terms of equal service to people with

disabilities. Of course they are beloved by affluent straight people on the libertarian right because that crowd detests LGBT persons, labor laws, the ADA and anything that creates fairness and equity.

[Mojorabbit]

26. I am disabled and uber drivers have been wonderful

in helping me in and out of the car and carrying my grocery bags to the door. I will have to disagree with you on that point.