More Young Americans Now Die From Guns Than Cars

[SecularMotion]

The United States is one of the greatest nations in the world. But compared to our peers, we’re one of the worst when it comes to gun violence.

In America, you can be shot at an elementary school. You can be murdered at a church or movie theatre.

You can even be executed on live TV — and yet there’s no real expectation of gun reform.

Gun-related violence and death is a real public health problem in America, researchers say. And these three charts illustrate why.

[center][/center]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiamond/2015/08/26/americas-gun-violence-problem-in-three-charts/

[Hoyt]

1. There goes one of the gunners' arguments for allowing more gunz in more places -- what about cars?

Their excuses rationalizing their bad habit and fixation, are laughable.

[pintobean]

3. There should be background checks for cars

[Hoyt]

5. There is.

[pintobean]

6. No

[Travis_0004]

9. Since when?

Every time I bought a car, I hand them the money, they hand me the title.

[bobclark86]

12. Maybe to get a license...

but to buy a car? Nope.

Try again.

[joshcryer]

34. Yeah, they let you drive off the lot without a license.

[bobclark86]

37. They'll deliver...

It's obvious you've never purchased a car before.

[Lancero]

46. It depends on where you get it.

Some require proof of driving ability, some don't.

[beevul]

51. I've owned over 40 vehicles over the years, some from dealer some not...

I've owned over 40 vehicles over the years, some from dealer some not, and never once been asked about a DL.

[former9thward]

40. No background check at all.

To get a license or buy a car.

[dsc]

43. actually there is a backround check to get a licence for a car

at least in terms of your driving record. If you don't believe me, try getting one without disclosing that you have one for another state.

[former9thward]

48. No background for mental or physical or criminal issues.

Nod background in your home state when getting your license. None. None.

[dsc]

57. actually there is some element of physical forced reporting for auto

and if you get reported for some illnesses you have to get a medical licence and it is a hard process. People who have seizures for example get reported on.

[the band leader]

61. cars have become much safer over the years.

front and side air bags, collision avoidance systems, improved frame/body designs, improved seat belts compliance, etc. It's no wonder fewer people are dieing in cars these days. meanwhile, the incidence of homicides is down pretty much everywhere except the places plagued by drug and gangs

[jonno99]

2. I'd be interested to see what the graph would look like after

removing drug/gang-related shootings.

Like the prohibition of alcohol, the "drug war" has simply made drug-trafficking (and the subsequent turf-wars) profitable.

IMO - remove the profit motive for trafficking drugs, and much of the drug-related gun violence (which heavily skews your graph) will disappear.

[bobclark86]

11. I'd rather see it...

without suicides...

[Eleanors38]

19. Ahhh, you're ruining a tired Narrative! Answer: Reduce by 2/3.

[randys1]

26. Funny, I would rather see no gun related suicides, instead of ignoring the stats

[etherealtruth]

31. What? My preference would be the end of gun related suicides

[jonno99]

39. Okaayyy...but it begs the question: are you ok with non-gun suicides?

I have to ask because it's kinda like the pro-choice debate. It appears that many on RW seem to care more about fetuses than live babies.

Likewise in the gun debates, there is a lot of excitement whenever there is a death by shooting, but not so much passion when the death is caused by other means.

Perhaps it's just me...

[etherealtruth]

41. I view suicide as a mental health and public health issue ...

Suicide by firearm is the most lethal means

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/case-fatality/

As I posted in a thread yesterday .... yesterday was the third anniversary of my oldest and dearest friend's suicide. She did not use a gun, but (sadly) she was successful.

[etherealtruth]

44. 2nd response to add

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/guns-and-suicide/

A study by the Harvard School of Public Health of all 50 U.S. states reveals a powerful link between rates of firearm ownership and suicides. Based on a survey of American households conducted in 2002, HSPH Assistant Professor of Health Policy and Management Matthew Miller, Research Associate Deborah Azrael, and colleagues at the School’s Injury Control Research Center (ICRC), found that in states where guns were prevalent—as in Wyoming, where 63 percent of households reported owning guns—rates of suicide were higher. The inverse was also true: where gun ownership was less common, suicide rates were also lower.

[EL34x4]

17. Yep. The majority of homicide victims in this country are individuals already known to the police.

They hang with the wrong crowd, engage in the wrong pastimes and piss off the wrong people.

While the media would have us think otherwise, the truly innocent bystander, robbery murder or mass shooting victim are outliers. Yet, they make the news. Joe gangbanger who gets killed after stealing drugs from John gangbanger doesn't make the news.

[FBaggins]

32. I'd also like to see annual figures over the last 25 years n/t

[dsc]

45. drugs are illegal in every nation listed on the graphic

each and every one.

[greatlaurel]

4. This is important information for people to think about.

Unfortunately, the gun marketers and the complicit news media will not discuss this information. They will overwhelm any rational discussion with marketing aimed at the population that is easily conned/marketed to waste their money buying more guns and ammo. The gun marketers/death merchants must secretly congratulate themselves on the election of Barack Obama, since using the scary black president as a marketing strategy has made them billions in profits while costing thousands of Americans their lives.

[Eleanors38]

20. "...complicit news media...?" BWAHA. Comlicit like a bar is to prohibition.

Last edited Thu Aug 27, 2015, 07:02 PM - Edit history (1)

If MSM didn't pump anti-gun bilge daily, there wouldn't be an anti-gun outlook, let alone a "movement."

[beevul]

23. That gave me a chuckle too.

As if the media is pro-gun...

As if.

[oberliner]

7. That information is not accurate

Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Number of deaths: 33,804
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.7

All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 33,636
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.6

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

[Gormy Cuss]

8. That's based on 2013 data

and you'll note the counts are pretty close. However, this CDC stat is not age-regulated, it's a complete count without regard to age.

The linked charts (and the OP subject matter) is focused on deaths in people age 26 and under and the chart is clearly projecting an estimate based on trends in both types of deaths. MV deaths in this population segment have been on a steep decline in recent years while gun deaths have not.

[oberliner]

10. Gotcha

Thanks for the additional info.

[lancer78]

16. it is also based

On suicide related gun deaths of 20,000

[Gormy Cuss]

18. Yes, homicides, suicides, and and accidental deaths are included

for both.

[Johonny]

13. This is why we need to get rid of all the regulations on cars. If we just got rid of seat belts

I'm sure we could up those deaths. And all for freedom! Glorious bloody freedom.

[Eleanors38]

22. States see driving as a privilege, not a right. Know the difference.

[Lizzie Poppet]

14. Another great argument for reforming our mental healthcare system.

Given that 2/3 of those deaths are suicides...

[the band leader]

56. Clearly we need to ban suicide.

[Lizzie Poppet]

60. The feds were trying to get us to do that hre in Oregon.

We told 'em to fuck off.

[the band leader]

63. Suicide is OK as long as a gun isn't used. then it's a big problem.

[cherokeeprogressive]

15. Ban gang membership.

[Agschmid]

21. And yet we do nothing...

And so called progressives on DU ridicule each other when it's brought up.

[Eleanors38]

25. Bad information leads to ridicule. If people choose to somehow control or ban

Gun ownership, or repeal the Second, then it is for THEM to organize, fund, do the leg work, present arguments and pass/enact legislation. You can't expect a money bags to "develop and organize" an anti-gun group (quote from someone today who wanted Bloomie to present a fait accompli), and you cannot expect a creeky old MSM to reach tens of millions of people with free agitprop as was done until the innertubes.

The reality is that the problems are probably less to do with guns than with a host of other problems that liberals and progs have either turned from, or fail to find ANY resonance for in our own Party. So we turn to the same sloganeering and cartoons that have pumped the same gas for generations, and somehow expect something new to happen. It won't. It hasn't.

[Agschmid]

29. I can't expect to do much when the SOP forbids open conversation *Usually*

And conversations on here always deteriorate into meta flame fests.

That's why I'll continue to fund/elect politicians who support my personal feelings towards guns.

Luckily we all get to do that in America.

[Eleanors38]

33. IMO, GD has a running guns exception that makes it OK

for you to discuss any gun topic, up to and including flame fests. I don't know how more open DU can be for gun talk.



The problem is when you are talking guns in DU, you can expect vigorous and sustained pushback. If one wants proposals to not be argued against, there is an "Activist" group. The controller/banners WANTED that set up AND a very liberal guns exception policy in GD, along with changing RKBA forum to a group. They got it all. Okay by me, but I will challenge arguments as I see fit, and challenge the chronic attempts to make GD into a GunsDiscussion group when most pro 2A DUers refrain from making OPs in GD, as per TOS. If the powers-that-be (imo, no friends of 2A) want to open GD to guns all the time, I'll go with that, as well.

In my view, GD is not well-designed for starting "movements," witness the Bernie/Hillary bi-furcation over fundamental questions of what is liberalism, progressivism and the future of the Party. I suppose one could eliminate ANY pro-2A talk in DU Anywhere; no way I could stop it. But I rather suspect there is a fear that Democrats will become increasingly seen as force-fitting an ideology of gun-control that is not universally held, even among liberals and lefties.

BTW, the phenomenon of a sizeable pro-2A group on a major progressive site is not unique to DU, as are calls for summary ejection!

[beevul]

24. Whats your plan to reduce gun suicides (2/3 of the gun deaths)?

Is it even your place to say whether someone should or shouldn't take their own life?

[etherealtruth]

27. Mental health issues are public health issues

The tragedy of suicide is most assuredly a mental health issue and should be addressed like any other significant health issues. Sadly, in the U.S. we do a poor job of identifying and treating mental health issues (actually we do a very poor job providing education, treatment and support for those with any health issues).

We can talk about end of life issues (such as assisted suicide for the terminally ill, that is a different issue and makes up a small percentage of suicides in the U.S.)

[beevul]

28. Not without defining it for everyone, as you're doing.

We can talk about end of life issues (such as assisted suicide for the terminally ill, that is a different issue and makes up a small percentage of suicides in the U.S.)

Who decides when 'end of life' is?

[etherealtruth]

30. Medical ethicists help with that, families help , communites help

One of the defining factors is that a person is not acting as the result of mental illness. surely you are not implying that a person that is despondent / depressed/ mentally ill should "simply be allowed" to make the "choice" to end their life?


Have you ever worked a suicide hotline? (I did in college/ nursing school) I also worked (my first career) as a Hospice nurse ... It almost sounds as if you are expressing a callous disregard for the complexity of issues surrounding suicide nd an indifference to the actuall cost and damage of suicide to individuals, families and the community.

Yes I am defining it for everyone ... the treatment of mental illness is far preferable than being indifferent to the suicide of others.

[beevul]

35. I come at it from a different perspective.

My life belongs to me, not to society.

[etherealtruth]

36. For your sake I hope you are never afflicted with mental illness ...

...physical illness (that can impair or distort your mentation or judgement ... even temporarily) or substance abuse/ addiction ... those are all situations/conditions that can make you not you!

[beevul]

53. It wouldn't change my view if I knew for certain that was going to happen.

My life belongs to me and no one else.

[ellisonz]

38. Gungeon doesn't care. n/t

[former9thward]

42. The graphs at the link are a good argument to make the driving age 26.

Fewer deaths for young people because they can't afford to buy cars. But it is saving their lives.

[dsc]

47. Is there even an iota of evidence that fewer people under 26 own cars?

than did so say 10 years ago?

[former9thward]

49. There are so many links on this subject

but I will give you just one. If you want countless more then google,

http://cityobservatory.org/young-people-are-buying-fewer-cars/

[dsc]

50. The link you provided doesn't say what you think it does

it directly states that it is comparing people who are 25 now to those who are 40 now.

from your link

To be fair, a really good answer to this question would require a bit more data sleuthing: Because automobile purchasing patterns vary over a person’s life cycle, you can’t accurately gauge the generational change in buying habits by comparing the current year buying habits of Millennials (average age, late 20s) with GenX (average age early 40s). The more interesting question to answer would be whether the average 25-year-old Millennial today is more or less likely to purchase a vehicle today than someone who was 25 in 2005, or in 1995 or in 1985. Unfortunately, we don’t have access to that data. However, if the folks at JD Power would be willing to dip into their considerable archives, we’d gladly do the computations.

that was my point and it appears your own link shows my point is well taken. Yes, 26 year olds are less likely than 40 year olds to own cars, that is true now and it was in the 1980's and it was in the 1960's and so on. But there is no evidence, at least not in your link, that 26 year olds now are less likely to own cars than 26 year olds in the 1980's or any other time for that matter.

[former9thward]

54. As I said countless more.

The share of new cars purchased by those aged 18-34 dropped 30% in the last five years, according to the car shopping web site Edmunds.com.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/17/news/economy/young-buying-cars/

But another huge part of the story is that young Americans are driving much, much less. Between 2001 and 2009, the average yearly number of miles driven by 16- to 34-year-olds dropped a staggering 23 percent.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2013/04/22/why-arent-younger-americans-driving-anymore/

Based on your previous posting history nothing will convince you so see ya...

[dsc]

55. Your second link shows your case

[MoveIt]

59. Survived a 0-7 FRIVOLOUS alert, I'm Juror #6

On Thu Aug 27, 2015, 08:32 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

As I said countless more.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7117203

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

insult plain and simple

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Aug 27, 2015, 08:44 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Grow some thicker skin please.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No reason whatsoever for this alert
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Don't alert stalk people if they happen to disagree with you. Saying that a poster wont be convinced based on a posters history is not an insult.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[former9thward]

62. Thank you.

I will not comment further.

[HassleCat]

52. No mystery here

We have been doing things about traffic deaths. We cracked down on drunk driving, improved vehicle safety with air bags and other safety features, designed better highways, and so on.

[Thinkingabout]

58. What is the difference in the two, well here goes.

A person has to be of age to get a license, there is a written and driving test to obtain the license. A vehicle is licensed, most states require a safety inspection yearly, car has a traceable title, a vehicle has to have liability or the owner has to provide financial responsibility for damages the vehicle may cause.

There are rules for the operation of the vehicle, safety belts required, proper lights, etc on vehicle, speed limits and many other rules.

A gun, a possible background check which if not answered timely allows the purchaser to buy the gun without the check being complete. No training required, no safety inspection.