The blasé acceptance that you might get shot is a fact of American life

[n2doc]

Megan Carpentier
It’s hard to be shocked at the Virginia shootings. They’re part of a cycle in which innocent people are murdered and politicians get away with doing nothing


The first time I did something about America’s epidemic of mass shootings was not when I looked up and saw on TV that a child had shot up a school full of children – although that’s happened a lot of times here.

It wasn’t when I saw a horrific video playing on a loop on Facebook on Wednesday, like so much of the rest of the world did, after another video of the same killing played in a loop on the the cable networks and across Twitter, even as people called for the Virginia video to disappear.

No, there wasn’t social media or an online death reel of snuff films in the midst of a sniper’s killing spree in the Washington DC metro area, way back in 2002.

I didn’t write my then-congressman demanding more gun control, of which we have little.

I didn’t email my then-senators demanding that they do something to reduce the number of guns on the streets, because I knew they didn’t really read their emails.

I didn’t even call my state assemblywoman or my state senator in Richmond, Virginia, to demand that they close the state’s well-known and egregious loophole that lets people buy guns easily at gun shows.

Instead, I positioned the back of my car toward a building, and stood, bent over, behind my car door while I pumped gas – in case a teenage sniper was aiming at me, from somewhere I couldn’t see, hunting me.

more

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/27/the-blase-acceptance-that-you-might-get-shot-is-a-fact-of-american-life

[malaise]

1. Good read

more flowers, candles, teddy bears, etc. etc. and not one damn thing from Congress.
The NRA owns the scumbags

[turbinetree]

2. I think a stage should be set up.........................

in front of the national head quarters in Virgina of the NRA and Gun Owners of America, with a big screen, with a permit, and they should have that video feed shown twenty-four seven, seven days a week, with the sound.
This organization and the current politicians and the U.S. Supreme Court have Blood" on there hands and they also should be reminded along with the gun manufactures-------------------enough is enough


+ the other thousands that have died, mostly woman and children in a domestic dispute

[One_Life_To_Give]

3. Murder rate is middle of the pack

Honduras, Venezuela, US Virgin Islands have an order of magnitude higher murder rate.
When it comes to the probability of being Murdered we sit between North Korea and Cuba. We have a long way to go to catch up to leaders like Indonesia. Japan and Monaco. But we are far better the Venezuela and Brazil.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Edit to add link

[Spider Jerusalem]

9. Not for developed countries, it isn't

US murder rate is 5x that of France, the UK, the Netherlands and Germany, 3x that of Canada and Greece (and the US murder rate is higher than in places like Syria and Libya).

[Lizzie Poppet]

11. Other developed countries don't have a "war on drugs."

According to the FBI, approximately 70% of US homicides are related to drugs or gangs (or both).

[Spider Jerusalem]

13. Nope.

https://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/Survey-Analysis/Measuring-the-Extent-of-Gang-Problems

[Lizzie Poppet]

14. That data supports my assertion.

Gang-related homicide, according to that data, constitutes a little over one-quarter of total homicides nationwide, rising to 50% in locales with heavy gang activity. That's obviously a significant contributor to the c. 70% figure, which combined gang activity with illicit drugs. I would expect drug-related killings to constitute a higher percentage than gang-related homicides, and I suspect a good number of the former occur in connection to property crimes committed to support addiction. Some homicides will, obviously, fall into both categories.

[Spider Jerusalem]

16. Try learning to read

The total number of gang homicides reported by respondents in the NYGS sample averaged nearly 2,000 annually from 2007 to 2012. During roughly the same time period (2007 to 2011), the FBI estimated, on average, more than 15,500 homicides across the United States (www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-1). These estimates suggest that gang-related homicides typically accounted for around 13 percent of all homicides annually.

13% is closer to one-eighth than it is to a quarter.

[Lizzie Poppet]

18. Try being a civil adult. You might like it.

I took the figure of 2363 gang-related homicides from the chart at the bottom of the first page. That represents about 20% of homicides for that year. So one-fifth would have been more accurate...

I'll also point out that your citation is of rather dubious accuracy. It states that "the FBI estimated, on average, more than 15,500 homicides across the United States." That's simply incorrect. The FBI cites (https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2008-2012.xls) the following homicide totals for most of the years in question:

2008: 14,224
2009: 13,752
2010: 13,164
2011: 12,795
2012: 12,765

2007 would have to be one hell of an outlier to get the average anywhere near 15.5k.

You were saying...?

[Spider Jerusalem]

20. Again, nope.

Nationwide in 2007, an estimated 16,929 persons were murdered

An estimated 16,272 persons were murdered nationwide in 2008

An estimated 15,241 persons were murdered nationwide in 2009

An estimated 14,748 persons were murdered nationwide in 2010.

n 2011, an estimated 14,612 persons were murdered in the United States

In 2012, an estimated 14,827 persons were murdered in the United States

sum of those years divided by six gives an average of 15,438 (close to 15550). Going with that figure? 14%. (And whether it's 14% or 20% or even 25% it's no-fucking-where near the absurd 70% you initially claimed.)

[flamin lib]

15. Thanks for the link, I've thought this to be the case but haven't had a good source. nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

19. Please see the link in my reply.

The link SJ provided has some pretty glaring inaccuracies (that is, it cites FBI stats that the FBI's own site contradicts).

[flamin lib]

21. Sorry, Liz, but Spider's link makes a much cleaner presentation without any speculation or massaging

of the numbers.

[Lizzie Poppet]

23. Um...huh?

My link is to the FBI's breakdown of homicide by weapon type, and it includes totals for each year. Where on earth do you see any sort of speculation or "massaging the numbers?" It's a straight up list of totals by type.

I do find it interesting that the FBI contradicts itself on homicide totals by year, though...

[Taitertots]

22. American exceptionalism at work

Just ignore the vast majority of the people on earth.

We're the worst when we ignore everyone that's worse.

[JackInGreen]

4. Only Blase

because the other option is continual leaping out of my skin paranoia.

[Indydem]

5. This is the problem:

"Instead, I positioned the back of my car toward a building, and stood, bent over, behind my car door while I pumped gas – in case a teenage sniper was aiming at me, from somewhere I couldn’t see, hunting me."

Fucking, pure, unadulterated paranoia.

Your odds of being shot randomly is so slim, that you have a better chance of winning the lottery.

It is a statistically impossible event.

You can go every single day of your life and not be shot, or shoot anyone else.

It happens to hundreds of millions of people in America throughout their life.

Acting like someone is just around the corner, ready to murder you, is absolute, unjustified, paranoia.

[n2doc]

7. I guess you didn't read the article

This was during the DC Sniper killing spree. Someone was 'just around the corner' in those days.

[Indydem]

8. NO! It was still statistically improbable!

There were 17 people killed in the Beltway sniper attacks.

There are 9.25 Million people in the Beltway Combined Statistical Area.

So, you had odds of 1:544,117

You had better odds to win $100,000 in the Powerball.

[flamin lib]

17. Yeah, but if YOU'RE that one it become a big fucking deal.

Besides, 130,000 people are shot every year at a cost to the economy of $260 billion. That is no small item and worthy of consideration, don'cha think?

[GoneOffShore]

24. I'm predicting crickets.

[flamin lib]

25. I find it interesting that those who want to carry guns everywhere to protect themselves

from other people with guns are the same ones who cite low crime rates and the improbability of being harmed with a gun because of, wait for it, GUNS!

I don't know if Indy is one of those people, I just wanted to make that point.

[Indydem]

27. I do not carry.

Concealed or openly.

I have 2 rifles and a shotgun.

But I do support the second amendment.

I have a lot of wacky ideas. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell you I am a member of the NRA. Guilty as charged. I support their training programs for youth and adults. When someone comes along and does it better, I will support them.

[Indydem]

26. No

I don't include pain and suffering for drug dealers and criminals (who are by far, the vast majority of those shot each year).

So direct costs are 8.5 billion. I'll be generous and double that to $17 Billion.

We Spend $130 Billion on health care costs directly related to Tobacco use. Better get on outlawing that.

We spend $25 billion on health costs related to alcohol. Better get on repealing the 21st amendment, Section 1.

We spend $11 billion on health care directly related to illicit drugs. Better make those illegal.... oh wait.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/04/true-cost-of-gun-violence-in-america

http://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics

[flamin lib]

28. Direct costs are police investigations, incarcerations and other such crime related

expenses. Indirect costs are medical, physical therapy, lost income, lost productivity, mental health costs and a lot of other things that bring the total cost to $229 billion from your own source.

Gang and drug related shootings make up between 13 and 20% according to another thread with links to the FBI for reference. https://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/Survey-Analysis/Measuring-the-Extent-of-Gang-Problems

As for being an NRA member, well, it's nice to have such a clean brain.

[Indydem]

29. 221 Billion are Indirect costs.

"Indirect costs amount to at least $221 billion, about $169 billion of which comes from what researchers consider to be the impact on victims' quality of life. Victims' lost wages, which account for $49 billion annually, are the other major factor. Miller's calculation for indirect costs, based on jury awards, values the average "statistical life" harmed by gun violence at about $6.2 million."

Nothing there about medical bills or physical therapy.

I didn't say anything about gangs. I said drug dealers and criminals. Show me those statistics.

I'm sure "clean brain" is some kind of insult - guess I'm not smart enough to follow.

[Recursion]

6. Well, no. We're roughly between western Europe and Latin America in our violence rate

Look at our population for a second and that shouldn't be surprising at all.

[Spider Jerusalem]

10. I fail to see what population has to do with it.

The UK, France, Germany, Austria, Italy, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, and Scandinavian countries combined have a population about equal to the USA and a murder rate of about one-fifth to one-third that of the US, give or take.

[hack89]

12. Gun violence in America is not uniformly distributed

it is very concentrated in high population, high poverty urban neighborhoods. The vast majority of Americans live in areas that are just as safe as any neighborhood in Western Europe. Even in cities, the violence is concentrated in a few neighborhoods.

[jtuck004]

30. Megan was in more danger of dying after she got behind the wheel and started driving.

People are really bad at seeing the things they are most at risk from. Might be at more risk of hurting herself seriously in a fall around the house than being shot.

The shootings get played over and over. People are really easy to fool.