History: The 14 Points of Fascism have been posted in Du GD more than

[jwirr]

5 times in the past. Apparently we can no longer refer to history in DU GD.

This place is really going down hill.

[virtualobserver]

1. did this search straight from google

is this what you are looking for?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x592344

[jwirr]

4. That is one of them. I read this speech of VP Wallace in the early 2000s

and was concerned about where we are heading. Was even more concerned today so I earmarked it for further use and when I went back it had been removed because it did not belong in this forum.

Unlike the one you just posted the one today was the full speech.

Oh, well there are other places besides DU to find history.

[PeaceNikki]

13. No. It was self deleted by the author.

Who freaked out when I pointed out they were violating copyright policy. SO, rather than edit it to meet guidelines, she deleted it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. At this point I am going to assume

these words are copyrighted (technically correct)

So will limit myself to four paragraphs, I think that meets the definition of the policy.

When a piece of material has been posted over and over and over again IN FULL both before and after the lawsuit and is considered quite openly open source, sorry for defending myself .Message received

(copyright Nadin Abbot, 2015)

[pampango]

2. Why did the poster delete that OP? I don't get it. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Because of the quite open threat of a PPR

when I leave, it will be on my OWN DAMN TERMS

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7111347

Oh and let me add this, they are looking for an excuse, that is now beyond obvious to me.

[PeaceNikki]

12. How the FUCK is me bringing attention to the policy a "threat of PPR"??!??! Quite the contrary, lady

I was bringing it to your attention so you could edit it to be within the guidelines. You know, like EDITORS do.

JFC, DU has strict copyright guidelines because of the legal issues they've had in the past. Be a good steward of the community, ffs.

[Fred Sanders]

15. I get exactly why you issued your explanatory statement and it was correct....cut and past of a long article

in total is the defintion of copyright infringement.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. And that exact piece has been posted here

Many times... mind you IN FULL

Don't worry, message received

[PeaceNikki]

22. *my* message to you was a suggestion to edit it.

What you "received" was oddly paranoid.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Nah it was not

message received

[PeaceNikki]

25. So weird. Editors edit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. And now we go into personal attacks

message received, You can quite now, really

[PeaceNikki]

31. Maybe you should adjust the settings on your antennae.

That wasn't a threat, nor was this an attack.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Message received, clearly

have a wonderful day, I have work to do.

(copyright nadin abbott 2015)

[PeaceNikki]

35. kthxbai!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Whatever

(copyright nadin abbott 2015)

[NuclearDem]

55. Well, it's a threat because reasons.

And potato.

[PeaceNikki]

57. Ah, thanks for clearing that up!

[NuclearDem]

60. That's all I've been able to get out of this little tantrum.

Oh well.

[demtenjeep]

103. the words

need to always be a victim


comes to mind

[uppityperson]

17. Aside from PeaceNikki not being on MIRT and unable to ban you, and even if she was she

couldn't ban you due to your longevity and number of posts so no, that was not an open threat to ban you. That was copy/pasting the copyright policy of DU. Admin takes copyright issues seriously since they were threatened in the past with lawsuit.

That link is at the bottom of every single page in DU. Look down on each and every page and you will see it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Do you think I know who is on MIRT and who is not?

I really don't.

Have a nice day

(copyright nadin abbott 2015)

[uppityperson]

30. Since you are a long time DUer, I figured you'd know there is always a list in the Announcements

forum. My apologies for assuming that. Here's the link to the forum.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1013

Here's the link to the current list in that forum.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10134723

Have a good day.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. I don't care for the list of the cool kids

It is that simple. Will make sure I keep my responses within the parameters of the copyright policy.

(copyright nadin abbott 2015)

[uppityperson]

38. I don't see it as a list of "cool kids" and thought you might appreciate gaining some knowledge you

were lacking. That was my point. You mistook PeaceNikki as being on MIRT and able to ban you. You said you didn't know who was on MIRT so I gave you that information. Perhaps others might not know how to find out who is on MIRT and read my post and learn also.

[zappaman]

61. They aren't "cool kids"

They are DUers who like this site enough to help out running it.
Since you have said DU is a "cesspool", I can see why you wouldn't want to help.

Hope that clears it up for you!

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. And the bully shows up

good going!



Hope that clears what I think of you...

(copyright nadin abbott 2015)

[zappaman]

69. Yes I'm a "bully" and DU is a "cesspool"

Crystal clear, kiddo.

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. You are a bully

yup...

(copyright nadin abbott 2015)

[zappaman]

72. All us "cool kids" are, right?

I gotta run so feel free to have the last word, governor.

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. Nope, but YOU ARE ONE

happy you admit it, first step to actually stop it.

And yes, in this case I will have the last word. Nice setup there.

(Copyright Nadin Abbott 2015)

[rhett o rick]

80. Looks like they brought out the tag team Nadin. Don't let them bait you. nm

[NuclearDem]

63. Well, they are cool kids too, but that's besides the point.

[zappaman]

67. It is pretty chill there.

It's also nice to see people who argue in the forums work together on MIRT.
I recommend anyone who enjoys DU to give it a shot.

[rhett o rick]

79. Looks like a tag team effort. Did the Bat Signal go out? Who else will show up to

join into the fray?

[NuclearDem]

83. More than one person replied to a post!

Illuminati confirmed.

[jwirr]

50. The first time I read it years ago on DU it was in the form it was posted

this time. Is the rule different from DU2 to DU 3? For this specific piece it is a shame if it is. The 14 Points of Fascism is a very important document. And it requires explanation of the points.

[uppityperson]

56. I asked Admin in ATA to please clarify as I don't know.

I know they are more stringent now about copyright stuff, since the 2010-11 lawsuit, but don't know about this. Here's the link to my post below that has the ATA link and what I asked them. It seems a good question to ask and clear up.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7112889

[merrily]

64. DU won that lawsuit and the suit was bogus anyway.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. It's been posted on DU 3 repeteadly

this is quite **** *****. to use words out of a government document so I think I am ok, on the copyright issues, since I think government is co... sorry, needed to stop using an actual government term.

(copyright nadin abbott 2015)

[PeaceNikki]

18. Here's a link to details on the lawsuit that was filed (not threatened, filed)

https://www.eff.org/cases/righthaven-v-democratic-underground

[merrily]

66. Filed, and DU won.

[PeaceNikki]

68. Sure did! Handily.

[rhett o rick]

81. Why do you guys pick on Nadin? nm

[PeaceNikki]

84. I didn't pick on her.

I brought her attention to a policy here. I didn't threaten her in any way. My intent was to bring it to her attention so she could edit it to be in compliance if she chose. She freaked out and read something into it that wasn't there, deleted it, then accused me of threats and turned it into a very odd conversation.

The end.

[rhett o rick]

87. Do you guys want to drive her off? Maybe get her PPR'd? How sad.

[PeaceNikki]

93. I can only speak for myself. And the answers to your odd questions are:

Nope.

Lol, no, I don't hold that kind of power, but I'm flattered that you think I do. I guess.

[libodem]

3. .

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

[geek tragedy]

5. that particular list gets posted so often it's almost spam at this point nt

[jwirr]

7. Would agree IF it were not so true. And VP Wallace was a very smart man.

[Fred Sanders]

8. The reason for what happened is clear enough:

DMCA Copyright Policy

ToS:

"Do not copy-and-paste entire articles onto this discussion forum. When referencing copyrighted work, post a short excerpt with a link back to the original."

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Except that this particular list has been posted very often

excuses, I know what I am doing from now on... but when that list is posted very often and there are no consequences... and that list is considered now to be in COMMON USAGE, as in COMMONS.

have an excellent day. At this point I almost expect any excuse.

Oh and Fred I expect to be alerted over the color of the sky at this point. This is quite personal... and it is quite obvious.

[Nye Bevan]

10. Always amusing that the list includes "rampant sexism"

but not "people being dragged from their homes in the middle of the night and imprisoned without trial". Which is more indicative of living under fascism?

And yeah, I know, we are only in the very, very early stages.....

[jwirr]

59. Hmmm, they don't mention the police killing black men for selling thier

own cigs either but I would guess it would be the same thing.

Wallace wrote this just either during or just after WWII and I assume that did not have to be explained then as the Holocaust was very much in the minds of the world.

[hedda_foil]

11. Here ya go. Wallace's full speech/article on The Dangers of Fascism.

The Danger of American Fascism

Henry A. Wallace

An article in the New York Times, April 9, 1944.
From Henry A. Wallace, Democracy Reborn (New York, 1944), edited by Russell Lord, p. 259.

1. On returning from my trip to the West in February, I received a request from The New York Times to write a piece answering the following questions:
What is a fascist?
How many fascists have we?
How dangerous are they?


2. A fascist is one whose lust for money or power is combined with such an intensity of intolerance toward those of other races, parties, classes, religions, cultures, regions or nations as to make him ruthless in his use of deceit or violence to attain his ends. The supreme god of a fascist, to which his ends are directed, may be money or power; may be a race or a class; may be a military, clique or an economic group; or may be a culture, religion, or a political party.


3. The perfect type of fascist throughout recent centuries has been the Prussian Junker, who developed such hatred for other races and such allegiance to a military clique as to make him willing at all times to engage in any degree of deceit and violence necessary to place his culture and race astride the world. In every big nation of the world are at least a few people who have the fascist temperament. Every Jew-baiter, every Catholic hater, is a fascist at heart. The hoodlums who have been desecrating churches, cathedrals and synagogues in some of our larger cities are ripe material for fascist leadership.


4. The obvious types of American fascists are dealt with on the air and in the press. These demagogues and stooges are fronts for others. Dangerous as these people may be, they are not so significant as thousands of other people who have never been mentioned. The really dangerous American fascists are not those who are hooked up directly or indirectly with the Axis. The FBI has its finger on those. The dangerous American fascist is the man who wants to do in the United States in an American way what Hitler did in Germany in a Prussian way. The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information. With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money or more power.

The rest: http://newdeal.feri.org/wallace/haw23.htm

[merrily]

71. This is such a coincidence. I've been meaning to do an OP in the Populist Group about Wallace.

Perhaps this thread is "the universe" telling me to stop procrastinating.

[hedda_foil]

73. That's terrific, merrily. The site has lots of Wallace info

[merrily]

74. Well, I might do a lousy OP. You never know. I did an OP on Huey Long. What a complex character!

Amazing how many populists end up shot to death, isn't it?

[Fumesucker]

14. I've posted it myself, the whole thing..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8771630&mesg_id=8771792

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. I also posted that on DU 2 as well

and 3 without nothing ever being said. We are though the looking glass... and I am pretty much... amused at this point. It is also quite personal at this point.

So with that... I have policy documents to look at... but it is not just republicans anymore. And that is another moment of clarity.

Oh and I will add, none of that to be posted here. I mean, government documents might also somehow, I don't know how, violate some form of copyright. That reduces my what I can post to the color of the sky... wait, that might be NOAA... and who knows maybe NOAA or the NWS might hold some copyright as well.

Of note as well, that, which you posted is AFTER THE LAWSUIT as well

[uppityperson]

26. Since the lawsuit, DU admin have gotten more stringent about copyright violations

https://www.eff.org/cases/righthaven-v-democratic-underground

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. That was posted AFTER the lawsuit

nice try

[uppityperson]

33. Still, they have gotten more stringent since then. Sometimes things aren't alerted on,

but Admin has said they contact those whose copyright violations are alerted on. It is up to Admin what to do about copyright violations. Not Hosts who lock OPs for not meeting a forum's Statement of Purpose, not Juries who rule on what they see as DU community standards, not MIR Team which looks out for newbies signing up with Malicious Intent.

I am just trying to provide information for you and others, I'd appreciate it if you'd drop the snark. Thank you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. I am not part of the cool kids

and that particular list is quite frankly open source since it is posted everywhere in full.

Making sure I meet the policy

(copyright nadin abbott 2015)

[uppityperson]

40. I suggest you ask Admin in the Ask the Admin forum so they can clear this up as it very well

could be and would be nice to know. They take a while to answer questions in ATA as they have busy lives off DU, but it would be nice to know if it is open source or copyrighted. Would you like to ask them, or would you like me to ask them as I will but don't want to step on your toes if you chose to.

Thanks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. I am not asking anybody at this point, message very clearly received.

(copyright nadin abbott 2015)

[uppityperson]

42. OK. I'll go ask Admin since they are the ones who decide copyright stuff, not general DUers, hosts

juries or MIRT. I'll be back and edit in a link so you can check later to see what they say.

ETA link and post from ATA forum.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12598509

Question about copyright vs open source info

There is a thread leading from another about copyright vs open source stuff, specifically The 14 Points of Fascism. I volunteered to ask if they fall into copyrighted stuff and need to stay within the 4 paragraph rule, or if they are open source and can be posted in full?

Here is the thread.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027111702
Which stemmed from this thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7110876

Here is one source listed in the thread
http://newdeal.feri.org/wallace/haw23.htm

It has been posted on DU in full in the past, but not sure if that was because it wasn't noticed breaking the copyright rule, or if it is ok to post in full as it is widely spread about the net.

Advice? Thank you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. Ask then about active defense of copyright under Tittle XVII

and how copyright lapses when material is not defended over 10 years.

That is US Copyright Law by the way. This particular piece has been posted like every where in full since it was published in 2002.


And you are correct I am just an ignorant fool that has no clue, but at this point, message not just received, tripple and quadruple received.

(copyright nadin abbott 2015)

[uppityperson]

45. I edited the above post to include the ATA link and what I posted. None of us know everything,

sharing is good.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. whatever!!!!

At this point not even national weather service warnings go here, at DU, Why? They are actually GASP I KNOW, copyrighted... under a COMMONS license, but not for DU. We are down that road now. And that is a good moment of clarity for me.

Hey now I now it is in the general zeitgeist... wait that word might be not kosher, wait that one is not either. damn...

(copyright nadin abbott 2015)

[uppityperson]

47. You are welcome. If/when I get a reply, I'll send it on to you. eom

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. I don;t care

what the answer is. NO MORE COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL FROM ME ON DU. END OF FUCKING DISCUSSION... which means....

[uppityperson]

52. I am sorry you are taking my attempts to clear this up so negatively. It is meant in the spirit

of cooperation and learning. Best wishes to you Nadin.

[rhett o rick]

82. Are you saying this was a copyright violation? nm

[uppityperson]

85. I said admin has gotten more stringent about copyright issues. I also gave information

of how to find who was on mirt, and posted a question in ATA asking if this is a copyright issue or not, hoping they would clarify. I posted the ATA link and question elsewhere in this thread.

I also gave information about mirt not being able a long term duer and that a DU member cannot simply ban another one. I may be overly pedantic, but there seems to be confusion about these issues and I find having true information to be a positive thing, maybe sometime else will read it and be informed.


I am trying to give information and find out what admin thinks about this as I do not know.

I hope this clarifies what I am saying.

[rhett o rick]

86. Good grief, why do you think you have to do this? Is it because it's Nadin? Seems she

is the favorite target here for some. Shameful. Is it because she is a female? Or not non-progressive? Or outspoken? Maybe a little too uppity.

[uppityperson]

88. Why do I have to do what? Give information? I am not sure why you attack me like this

I have written this info out to many DU ers many times. And will continue to do so. I replied civilly and with information about DU that obviously wasn't known, as I have done for many duers in the past and will continue to do.

Why attack me with all those false claims? Seriously, wtf.

[rhett o rick]

89. I am not attacking just wondering why the attacks on Nadin. She seems to be a favorite target here.

[uppityperson]

91. This was not an attack? Oh. What part was meant as a polite, civil discussion?

Good grief, why do you think you have to do this? Is it because it's Nadin? Seems she

is the favorite target here for some. Shameful. Is it because she is a female? Or not non-progressive? Or outspoken? Maybe a little too uppity


I've not between posting much in the greater DU recently, have no clue what is going on with Nadin. I have not read much from her or replied to her in recent times, same as most of DU. And certainly not picked on anyone except a few frequent flyer nasty zombies (have you notice name removed showing up a lot? Yay for us who were volunteering on mirt).


But when I see someone misrepresenting what mirt does, or a long timer expressing fear they will get banned for not following the copyright rule, I have, and will continue, to post accurate information. When I see someone breaking the copyright rule, I remind them of it like I did in post 54 in this thread to Octafish. Civilly, politely, without snark or insult because yes, I truly believe no one knows everything and sharing information is good.

To claim I do so as a personal vendetta or for one of those "not an attack" reasons you gave is dead wrong and an apology is in order.

[uppityperson]

92. This sort of reply shows why I have not between posting much recently.

To claim sharing information about the forum and offering to ask admin for clarification if the thing talked about in the OP is within copyright rules or not means I am attacking is outrageous and exactly the sort of thing you are complaining about.

Answering someone, sharing info about du, offering to help get clarification is "attacking"? No. I am not the bad guy here for trying to help.

Show me where I've been targeting Nadin or apologize for your attack.

[uppityperson]

95. The lack of a response is telling. eom

[Octafish]

16. Trump is going all-Fascist all the time.

We need DU now more than ever.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Octa I suspsect some folks like it that way

the moment of clarity at this moment, after Saturday, and yesterday, with Jorge Ramos is incredible. Some values are now mainstream We are though the looking glass.

[Octafish]

39. What Hannah Arendt said was the goal of ''Wholesale Surveillance''...

The goal of wholesale surveillance, [font color="green"]as (Hannah) Arendt wrote in “The Origins of Totalitarianism,” is not, in the end, to discover crimes, “but to be on hand when the government decides to arrest a certain category of the population.” [/font color]And because Americans’ emails, phone conversations, Web searches and geographical movements are recorded and stored in perpetuity in government databases, there will be more than enough “evidence” to seize us should the state deem it necessary. This information waits like a deadly virus inside government vaults to be turned against us. It does not matter how trivial or innocent that information is. In totalitarian states, justice, like truth, is irrelevant.

Chris Hedges, The Last Gasp of American Democracy



We are approaching what Oliver North had to take behind closed doors.

The Shredding of Democracy

excerpted from the book

The Secret Government

by Bill Moyers
Seven Locks Press, 1988

EXCERPT...

COLONEL NORTH (Iran-contra hearings, I987):

This lieutenant colonel is not going to challenge a decision of the commander in chief, for whom I still work, and I am proud to work for that commander in chief. And if the commander in chief tells this lieutenant colonel to go stand in the corner and sit on his head, I will do so.

That notion troubled Inouye, a combat hero of World War II. He reminded North of the military code, of a soldier's duty.

SENATOR INOUYE (Iran-contra hearings, 1987):

The uniform code makes it abundantly clear that it must be the lawful orders of a superior officer. In fact it says, "Members of the military have an obligation to disobey unlawful orders." This principle was considered so important that we - we, the government of the United States, proposed that it be internationally applied in the Nuremberg trials. And so in the Nuremberg trials we said that the fact that the defendant -

BRENDAN SULLIVAN, counsel to Colonel North:

Mr. Chairman, may I please register an objection?

SENATOR INOUYE:

May I continue my statement?

MR SULLIVAN:

I find this offensive. I find you're engaging in a personal attack on Colonel North, and you're far removed from the issues of this case.

North's lawyer deflected Inouye, but some of North's fellow officers watching on television took issue with the colonel.

CONTINUED...

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Moyers/Democracy_TSG.html

Interesting how few people know this history, and when we try to bring it up, so many suddenly appear to shoot down its discussion. What a coincidence, nadinbrzezinski!

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Not a coincidence, we both have outside ways to communicate with each other

and that is nice, becuase I suspect it will be needed.

Oh I need to keep within the parameters of the copyright policy, It is silly, but every time we post OUR WORDS are actually copyrighted under Title XVII. I love it when people first issue threats, then back down, and do not understand the first thing about commons, how you defend your copyright, and all that. The fact that that list has been circulating in full over now two decades means the copyright is now open source. But I do not expect people who do not work with copyright at this point to know, or care about that... or for that matter not to be selective about it.

(copyright nadin abbott 2015)

[PeaceNikki]

48. Nobody threatened you.

You keep saying that, but all I did was copy the policy. If you perceived that as a threat (of what, I have no idea) then that's on you. There's no threat of anything in my post to you. None. So you should stop saying that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Whatever nicky

good job

(copyright nadin abbott 2015)

[PeaceNikki]

53. No threat.

None. Nada. Zilch.

[uppityperson]

54. Would you please limit that to Du's 4 paragraph copyright rule? Thank you.

[jwirr]

65. Exactly. Read a post not to long ago that was talking about what his kind

of hate speech does - basically it this type of speech enables the haters to move on to physical hatred. Something we seem to be doing when it comes to minorities.

[Octafish]

75. They may be planning to start with the ''Illegals.''

To help in the round-up of foreign agitators in the event of an armed US response to the communist threat in Central America, Ollie North and the REX-84 plans called for help from the Michigan Militia types. Web Archive still has the basics:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010414024811/http://www.sfbg.com/nessie/6.html

From there, who knows who'd be next? Minorities in general, people who opposed, liberals, Democrats...Going from what passes for discourse these days, I imagine conservatives would be among the last rounded up.

[jwirr]

78. If we follow trumps scenario that is the way it will go. This all makes one

thing about the odds of ever stopping this. Especially if we are dealing with things like climate change, water shortages, further economic collapse and food shortages. I feel like I should get down on my knees and pray. Even if it would do no good.

[countryjake]

101. Exactly!

I remember how utterly stunned I'd felt when it became clear that my country had actually elected a B-movie actor to lead this nation.

I've been having deja vus of that feeling ever since Trump began spewing his plans for us all.

A nightmare, coming true soon, playing 24/7 in every media near you.

[WillyT]

90. And Therein Lies The Problem... In The 40's We Sought To Destroy... In 2015...

We Think That's A Good Idea.

[jwirr]

94. And the only question is why. And when I think about it I think it comes

down to two related issues: wealth inequality and white male supremacy.

There is a great deal of fear that white males are going to be replaced in the system and as usual they do not blame the rich who they hope to be someday.

Instead they blame anyone they can outside of that group. One learns real fast when they live on welfare that the middle class never blame the rich - it is always the poor. Same old story.

I think that the other problems we face: climate change, continual wars, droughts, food prices, housing prices, outsourcing, etc. only play into this as they begin to touch the middle class and cause them to start disappearing.

IMO that is why we are moving so rapidly toward the fascism that those 14 points tell us about.

[odd_duck]

96. "You keep them scared, I will keep them poor." Said the King to the Bishop.

[jwirr]

97. Yes. Good quote.

[countryjake]

98. It's been posted many more times than that!

In the early days of DU and leading up to the Shrub Invasions/Occupations, we could count on finding something about those points regularly on here. In full.

"The people, and the people alone, are the motive force in the making of world history."

Oops, better edit that...I'm sure Mao holds the copyright on it. He laughs.



"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."~ George Santayana

[jwirr]

99. Your sig line is why I think it should always be allowed. This is something

that we do NOT want to repeat.

[countryjake]

100. With Trump spewing his white power agenda, 24/7 on the MSM...

I have a feeling that we're already there...it's here now, fascist mentality being shouted from all sources of the media, daily. Important, credited sources.

(that's not my sig line, just thought it might be time to go Churchill on my fellow members here)

[jwirr]

102. Yes, between trump and the killing of unarmed black men I think we are

here.