Breathe Fire! (A post about Anna Duggar)

[MelissaB]

I know everybody is laughing about this Josh Duggar story. Oh, a DUGGAR on Ashley Madison, it's so rich! I wish more people would talk about Anna. I normally keep things light on Facebook, but let's talk about Anna. Let me tell you: Anna Duggar is in the worst position she could possibly be in right now. Anna Duggar was crippled by her parents by receiving no education, having no work experience (or life experience, for that matter) and then was shackled to this loser because his family was famous in their religious circle. Anna Duggar was taught that her sole purpose in life, the most meaningful thing she could do, was to be chaste and proper, a devout wife, and a mother. Anna Duggar did that! Anna Duggar followed the rules that were imposed on her from the get-go and this is what she got in reward- a husband who she found out, in the span of 6 months, not only molested his own sisters, but was unfaithful to her in the most humiliating way possible. While she was fulfilling her "duty" of providing him with four children and raising them. She lived up to the standard that men set for her of being chaste and Godly and in return, the man who demanded this of her sought women who were the opposite. "Be this," they told her. She was. It wasn't enough.

What is Anna Duggar supposed to do? She can't divorce because the religious environment she was brought up would blame her and ostracize her for it. Even if she would risk that, she has no education and no work experience to fall back on, so how does she support her kids? From where could she summon the ability to turn her back on everything she ever held to be sacred and safe? Her beliefs, the very thing she would turn to for comfort in this kind of crisis, are the VERY REASON she is in this predicament in the first place. How can she reconcile this? Her parents have utterly, utterly failed her. Think of this: somewhere, Anna Duggar is sitting in prayer, praying not for the strength to get out and stand on her own, but for the strength to stand by this man she is unfortunately married to. To lower herself so that he may rise up on her back.

As a mother of daughters, this makes me ill. Parents, WE MUST DO BETTER BY OUR DAUGHTERS. Boys, men, are born with power. Girls have to command it for themselves. They aren't given it. They assume it and take it. But you have to teach them to do it, that they can do it. We HAVE to teach our daughters that they are not beholden to men like this. That they don't have to marry a man their father deems "acceptable" and then stay married to that man long, long after he proved himself UNACCEPTABLE. Educate them. Empower them. Give them the tools they need to survive, on their own if they must. Josh Duggar should be cowering in fear of Anna Duggar right now. Cowering. He isn't, but he should be. He should be quaking in fear that the house might fall down around them if he's in the same room as she. Please, instill your daughters with the resolve to make a man cower if he must. To say "I don't deserve this, and my children don't deserve this." I wish someone had ever, just once, told Anna she was capable of this. That she knew she is. As for my girls, I'll raise them to think they breathe fire.

This is from a Facebook post by Jessica Krammes Kirkland here: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10102329573942271&id=33000094

I am so thankful that I had a mother who taught me to breathe fire. The sad thing is I see this all around me.

[MADem]

1. What Anna should do is divorce that ass, get half, take those kids, and run.

She probably won't do that, but that is what she should do.

[Initech]

7. I said the exact same thing in another thread!

The Duggars and that crazy line of thinking known as Quiverfull can do some serious damage to one's self worth, and the fact that Anna is blaming herself for Josh's failures is scary. Anna needs to get as far away from that family as possible.

[MADem]

10. Quiverfull of horseshit, if you ask me! Brainwashing basstids! nt

[Initech]

33. Ha! I want that on a bumper sticker!

[MADem]

35. It would make a good one, I grant you that!

We need a DU artist to do the graphic representation of it to make the bumper sticker pop!!!

[47of74]

38. Agreed.

[cleanhippie]

45. Glad we agree that religion is brainwashing.

Or did you just mean religion that you don't agree with?

[MADem]

48. I think it depends on how heavy the hand is. If the religion is full of "thou shalt nots" with

consequences, then it's probably not a good thing.

If the religion gives people tools to help themselves cope with daily life, is inclusive and respectful of all persons, irrespective of gender, orientation, race, etc., is a social event on a weekly basis, and doesn't really give too much of a shit if people are sinners, I don't mind those sorts of religions at all. If a congregation can, and does, en masse, pretty much ignore the dictates of a didactic church, that tells me that the people are gaining clout over the hierarchy, and that is also a good thing.

It also doesn't trouble me in the slightest if people don't want to believe in anything, or if they opine that they just don't know, or don't care, or both.

That might not suit you, but I can address the matter with some degree of nuance. I look at the imapct on the person--if the person is being constrained, put down, insulted, debased or belittled, that is not good. If they are self-actualized, raised up, esteemed, and their lives are enhanced by the sense of community they get from joining a congregation and helping others, well, that's fine too.

I know it when I see it, see? Every major religion--and the minor ones, too--have flaky sects. This sect happens to be associated with Christians and they certainly don't follow the word of that guy they pretend to worship too terribly well, in my mind.

[ToxMarz]

14. What would she get half of

I'm sure the parents control the media money, Josh is unemployed and likely not capable of gainful employment.

[MADem]

20. TLC and that Think Tank where he worked would have signed a contract with HIM, not his mommy and

daddy.

He obviously had control over his own cash--he used it to open an Ashley Madison account--no, TWO accounts.

She should get the dough now, before it gets spent on legal fees or some other expenditure.

[ToxMarz]

31. If he is worth anything I think leaving should be an serious consideration

But you have no idea what he has or doesn't have, so it's kind of foolish to think you absolutely know what she should do based on circumstance you have imagined.

[JDPriestly]

15. Get half of what?

And then what does she do?

I've talked to many women in this position. It sounds so easy to get out of a horrible marriage. It isn't.

She has no education,no work experience and four children to clothe and feed. On top of that women don't have equal opportunities in the workplace. We get lower pay than men for the work we do. We are likely to be hired for temporary or low level work, make little money and be the first blamed and fired.

And the job market right now is lousy.

She will probably forgive him. The alternative is a lot harder and a lot more bitter than people realize.

If his has a couple of million dollars, then maybe she can put $30-40,000 down and go to college. If she does that, she has a late start on a career, and who is hiring?

Otherwise, what will she do?

Not a pretty situation. But many women are in it.

[MADem]

16. You don't think that guy is worth a small FORTUNE? They didn't pay minimum

wage at that Think Tank, and there's all those acting fees for that twitty little reality show.

She doesn't have to go to work. There'd be enough there to GO TO SCHOOL. And then she could demand child support.

Who's hiring? That's probably a good question--and when she gets her answer, that's a good place to direct one's course of study.

She's not a sixty year old woman trying to "youthify" and compete in a new market with old skills. She's a young woman who is a tabula rasa. She needs to write on that blank slate and then get out there. But she needs to do it soon--if more crap comes out about her husband (who knows who else he may have touched inappropriately?) there could be lawsuits in his future, and she needs to grab what cash she can before the lawyers do, and move on.

It's not going to get any better staying on that sinking ship.

[JDPriestly]

25. Good advice. Thanks to California's Spanish heritage and our community property law, it is

easier for women here, but for some reason, so many women just do not want to admit defeat even when it is written large, black, bold letters on their morning coffee cup.

It's very sad. I've seen so much of this.
ho
And he will have a great lawyer, and will she? We shall see. She may be lucky. They are celebrities, so as you point out, she may have a choice. But we don't know about his financial situation. His parents probably take a lot of the money. We may find out because their dirty laundry may be washed very publicly if he is the fool i think he is.

[MADem]

36. I'd cut a deal with Gloria Allred--it would be worth it to pay her a hefty chunk in

exchange for the MASSIVE publicity Gloria would bring down, which would ensure a book deal, maybe a Lifetime Made For TV movie (or a large screen one with the right script and talent--look at how Nicole Kidman managed to do a "Pamela Smart" performance)....she could see her way to a reasonably comfortabe life for awhile while she gets her life together.

[JDPriestly]

39. I wish!!!! But, these fundamentalist women are brainwashed into thinking they are helpless.

They sometimes believe that God wants them to suffer, that suffering their husbands' horrible abuse and disrespect makes them good, Godly women.

It especially infuriates me to see religion used in that way, but I found that religion often played a role with women who are clearly abused or very badly treated by their husbands and do not try to reclaim their lives.

[MADem]

40. Leah Remini broke her chains--there's hope for others trapped in crazy cults. nt

[Bettie]

42. Exactly, she's been taught since birth

that her only value is as a wife and mother, completely subservient to her husband.

That anything her husband does (porn, infidelity, child molestation) is brought on by her failure to satisfy him in some way. Of course she blames herself, it is all she has ever known.

I hope she can get herself and her children out of there, but I have little hope that it will happen. More likely, she'll stay there and silently rage as he abuses her children, because she has been taught that it his right to do whatever he pleases with her and her children.

In the back of her mind, she probably figures if she's godly enough, good enough, he'll stop being what he is and become what he has pretended to be in public. But, he's been taught that whatever he does is OK, because he's the man and it isn't his fault, it is her fault for not satisfying his every urge.

Vicious cycle. And people keep telling me that religion is a net good to society.

[alphafemale]

18. I grew up in that mindset.

Women are inferior and victims when they consent to that status.

[JDPriestly]

21. True, but other choices are really difficult for so many women.

And then they end up old with no future and no money and a husband who divorces them and manages to cheat them out of everything.

I am most definitely not talking about myself.

[secondwind]

17. Amen, but she is too immersed in the religion and she has low self-esteem... :-(

[MADem]

19. Brainwashed. It's sad.

I hope her pervy husband doesn't start going after her kids. I'd trust him about as far as I could throw him.

[ncjustice80]

23. Maybe they would let her take the girls and leave the boys behind?

[MADem]

50. Those pervs would probably flip that script. I wouldn't trust them within a thousand yards

of any child.

[Rex]

28. Fundamentlism is a global pox along with RW think tank cults.

You just know there will be problems down the line when you let someone tell you when to piss and breath air. Matter of time.

[snooper2]

44. The person writing this should learn all of the details, Anna knew he fingered his sisters

before they got married, GAWD forgave him so all was okay...

So if that horrible deed was fine to her in her simple mind, anything will/would get a pass including cheating.



Brainwashing children into the fundie lifestyle unfortunately isn't considered child abuse- Yet-

[MADem]

49. Are you sure of that, or did she just SAY that after the story broke...? nt

[snooper2]

51. I guess we will probably never know...

We should take them at their Word because Gawd would say lying is wrong in the Drugger house, right?

[MADem]

52. Well, they certainly misrepresented themselves to their public for years, so either some lies are

better than others, or they fibbed to Gawd too...?

I think they won't be able to fib to the bank so easily when the money dries up.

They'll probably have to do what most grifters on those lines do, and start themselves a church!!!

John Oliver had a good primer on how it's done on his show last week!

[TheBlackAdder]

54. Josh set himself up for another fall... Possible Permanent Lifetime Alimony!

.


Oh, it's so quaint that your wife has no skills and is completely dependent on you, Josh!

Now, since she does not have any job skills, you must pay her way and pay to educate her in a vocation.


Yes, in many states, if you are married for more than 7 years or are disabled, you might get Permanent Alimony.

Add Child Support to this and Josh will be screwed--in a legal sense. With 4 kids, he'll have a tough time.

.

[yeoman6987]

55. Some woman stay with their husbands no matter what

We have seen this numerous times no matter wealth, political party, or anything. Love might be the reasons....who knows.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. Thank you for this Facebook post!

Every word rings true.

I raised my daughters to breathe fire, and they do. They have men who truly love and respect them as a result.

I wish Anna had had the same upbringing.

K&R

[smirkymonkey]

3. Excellent Post!

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

4. She could start by joining a different, more mainstream church.

One in which other parishioners might help her find a path to breaking free of him and being her own person, and not just a 'wife' or 'mother'.

[cleanhippie]

46. A better idea would be to leave religion altogether.

With religion being the root of the problem here...

[DesertRat]

5. Such a great post, I hope it goes viral

I'm so proud to have raised a strong, brave and independent daughter. Women need to empower our daughters and ourselves.

k&r

[libdem4life]

6. Add to this horror story, the Dugger girls. They have held this carnal knowledge

inside themselves while smiling for the cameras for a very long time. Did the littler kids know? They do now. Severing your entire upbringing, social place, cultural imprinting is nigh impossible. As the poster states...where to go? They are "famous" which is now a curse.

Maybe some kind Arkansas soul would put out a halfway house for them to rest and recouperate in, while trying to find a different path. That's all I can think of. I had a sister I could go live with, which saved me. But you don't just "take the kids and leave". Easy to say, but the father always has the money, the power, the legal right and the intent to find you and bring you back...then it's worse than ever. Then they are living in constant fear...which isn't good for the kids. It's a Gordian Knot, no matter how you put it.

[laundry_queen]

8. Unfortunately, it's not just religion

that teaches those things to young girls.

My parents were anti-religion and tried to teach me to get a career before I got married, take my time having kids. etc. They wanted me to be independent. But at the SAME TIME they showed they thought that a woman's looks were more important than anything. If they would hear about some guy cheating on his wife, it had to be because she had gotten fat. If ONLY she hadn't 'let herself go' her husband wouldn't have strayed. I was told that weight and looks were a woman's #1 duty. I disagreed with them. And they only paid lip service to independence - they never lifted a financial finger to help me get through school, even though they were WELL able to.

I married the first guy that came along that had no issues with weight or looks (turns out my parents thought he was an asshole, but never said a word to me, and never got involved at all, I wish they would have). I ended up in the same position Anna Duggar is in right now - 4 kids, no education or meaningful work experience. I thought I would want to RUN if that ever happened, but found myself begging him to stay (not proud of that now). In my case, HE wanted out. So he left, and I tried to put my life back together. It was way harder than I ever thought it would be. My kids have suffered. (probably more than if my ex and I had stayed together) Yes, I went back to school and got my degree. I now have a job. But I make low wages. Financially, I struggle. My older kids are basically raising my younger ones (although I suppose it's not that different in fundy-land).

But, in many ways, things are so much better. I feel better about myself. I don't have someone treating me like dirt, putting me down. I can make my own decisions. My 4 kids - all girls BTW - see me work my butt off. My oldest is starting post secondary this year and she is ambitious - in large part because she doesn't want to be in my position ever. I talk openly with my girls about feminist issues, about religion, about power imbalances in society...I teach them it's more important who they are. My kids know they are capable of more, because they know I believe in them and they saw that I did it too.

My parents STILL think the reason my ex cheated and left was because I gained weight after 4 babies (even though the person he cheated with was not particularly pretty and was definitely not thin). In their opinion, I didn't put in enough effort to look good for my man (they have no idea that we had a really healthy sex life our entire marriage, and weight was never an issue). They are disgusted I haven't lost weight and found another man yet. The fact that I got a degree and found a job in my field is meaningless to them - and THAT is the underlying attitude we have to combat in society - not JUST in a religious framework, but a societal one as well.

I do wish Anna would leave - if only to find her own strength - but I will not blame her if she doesn't.

[shenmue]

22. I'm sorry about your parents

[roscoeroscoe]

29. Good luck!

Man it's a hard road sometimes. Like you say, at least you've got control of your life. Best wishes, I know how it can be.

[3catwoman3]

30. You have my admiration, Laundry Queen.

Your parents should be ashamed of themselves, and you should be proud as hell of yourself. It sounds as if you have taught your daughters some crucial lessons.

[sufrommich]

9. This landed on my Facebook page

yesterday. Well written and so on point.

[Lunabell]

11. Sadly, she is taking some of the blame

http://okmagazine.com/photos/anna-duggar-taking-some-of-the-blame-for-josh-cheating-on-ashley-madison-will-she-leave-him/photo/1001304857/

[SidDithers]

12. Religion is an insult to human dignity - Steven Weinberg...nt

Sid

[cleanhippie]

47. And yet so many responses call for her to do nothing more than change her flavor of religion.

[Efilroft Sul]

13. I'm so happy to see this family get what it finally deserves.

I feel bad for the sisters and Anna, though. Josh and his folks? Not so much at all!

[MisterP]

24. worse, she was probably chosen for her family resemblance

on edit: here's the central site for the escapees and sympathizers of all stripes http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/

[dem in texas]

26. You missed one important point.

Yes, it would be great if Anna taught her daughters to be strong and stand up for themselves. But, most important for her is to acknowledge that she is married to a man who is addicted to pornography. cheats on her and has molested his sisters. She needs to worry about having her daughters him because he is good candidate for molesting those little girls. She should never leave them alone with him. He doesn't care about his religious upbringing or breaking the law. He is a sick person and cannot be trusted around young girls, even his own daughters.

[Rex]

27. There is enough blame to pass around to the parents and grand parents. And cult wacko cult leaders.

That entire family is FUCKED. They ALL need professional counciling and not that BULLSHIT FAKE SCIENCE crap the get from the American Fucked Up Council!

I would say ANY child raised in a cult like environment is going to grow up either really fucked up or they will flee the first chance they get and live a normal life. The Duggars chose to stick it out and keep a lid on the vile shit the parents COULD HAVE gone to jail for!

So now Josh is fucked up, his wife is fucked up, his sisters and maybe even his own children are fucked up and maybe forever. All because they joined a cult that told them when to piss and breath.

Fundamentalism is a global disease and the worst one of the 21st century imo. AND TLC FEEDS this sickness!

For profit.

[joanbarnes]

32. I breathe fire because my mother didn't, my daughter breathes fire because I did.

[Liberal_in_LA]

34. and No birth control for her but bet Josh was using it w the strippers

[Solly Mack]

37. She knew he molested his sisters before she married him.

Yes, she was raised to be exactly what she is - a victim of a warped ideology who can't see her own chains.

And she'll pass this same sickness on to her daughters and sons.

[SMC22307]

41. "As for my girls, I'll raise them to think they breathe fire."

I truly love that line.

[hunter]

43. The women of my family, and my wife's family, are fire-breathing Wild West matriarchal.

My great grandmas were fierce. The only grandparent of my wife I was privileged to meet was fiercely proud of her Mexican and Southwestern Native American heritage and was master of her domain. Her children were born in California, in farmworker camps, because she decided that would be best for them. My wife's dad, by some quirk of history, was born in a tent a short walk from a small farm my parents later owned.

I observe there is quite a bit of push-back against this sort of family structure, even by men who consider themselves liberal and progressive, especially white men who have never lived in a culture of fire-breathing women.

My mom got a huge amount of push-back in her career before she retired, and my wife gets that kind of push-back now. Men are strong, but strong women are... any number of demeaning words and stereotypes. My sister recently quit a job because she was tired of that shit.

Strong women who are not white are treated even worse. Honestly, that's where a lot of Hillary Clinton support comes from. Both men and women who grow up in these sorts of matriarchal families, especially in non-white families, have witnessed or experienced all the crap fire-breathing women have to put up with in this society, even from their supposed allies.

[Android3.14]

53. If she leaves the family, she will never want for anything

Your description of her is accurate and sad, but she has it made, whether she stays or leaves. A tell-all book would do the trick, or a book on forgiving her husband, and the settlement for the divorce will largely favor her.

[DebbieCDC]

56. What Anna needs is a good lawyer and a good therapist

And with her children in family counseling