Dick Dale has single payer and spends $3000/month to stay alive

[Recursion]

If anyone is curious why there is skepticism about expanding Medicare to all:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/03/1408454/-Legendary-guitarist-forced-to-stay-on-tour-to-pay-his-medical-expenses

Dick Dale (think the crazy surf guitar solo in "Pulp Fiction&quot is still touring at the age of 78 because he has to pay $3K / month for his medical expenses.

He's 78, so he's on Medicare.

You know, the single payer system we want to expand to everyone.

I think there's more to this story and that a national insurance system like Medicare is probably a good idea, but this is a horrible story for us to lead with.

[daleanime]

1. We have moved forwards a bit on this....

but we have a long, long way to go.

[yeoman6987]

30. We are not getting the whole story on this one

Perhaps his wife is not on Medicare yet due to age. Something isn't right though.

[hobbit709]

87. If you didn't make enough SS wages, it will cost you. Look it up.

[TexasBushwhacker]

99. She is much younger than him

She may not even be 50. Even so, she should be able to get SSI or SSDI and Medicare if she is disabled by her MS.

[dofus]

2. I saw this article, and find

his situation particularly sad. He does have a long list of health issues, so much so that I'm rather surprised he can possibly get out of bed to perform.

Medicare really is a good system for most of its enrollees. This just points out how much more needs to be done, how we should be absolutely capping anyone's costs, no matter if they're on Medicare or totally uninsured.

[TexasBushwhacker]

10. He could buy a Medigap policy for a few hundred

per month.

It sounds like he's just not good with his money. He went through an expensive divorce several years ago that took all his cash, but he still owns 80 acres of land near Palm Springs.

[dofus]

52. I was wondering about that.

Hope someone advises him to do so.

[Rex]

58. Shhhhh....don't mess up the OPs fake outrage otherwise he will have to find some other

RWing garbage to post in GD. Let him keep pretending medicare and single payer are the same thing.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

106. Can he buy Medigap now, with a pre-existing condition?

Can he get Medigap from an Affordable Health Care website?

[TexasBushwhacker]

110. Medigap policies are purchased from private insurers

You have to buy them when you enroll on Medicare at age 65. After that, they may not accept your application and even if they do accept you, there may be a waiting period of 6 months to cover pre existing conditions. The best time to enroll is within 6 months of your 65th birthday.

[cbdo2007]

3. While it definitely looks like we are moving closer and closer to a single payer system....

it isn't going to solve 90% of the complaints people here on DU have about Health Insurance/Health Care.

[KG]

4. Medicare isn't single payer.

thanks for playing though.

[Recursion]

5. Yes, it is. "Single Payer" is often branded as "Medicare for All"

Also, thanks for playing.

[demigoddess]

90. If it is single payer, why do we have to buy medicare supplemental insurance.

Medicare covers hospitalization, you have to buy insurance to cover office visits which is Part B. Medications, Part D is mostly paid for. that is what I understand, but I am an ignoramus

[Recursion]

93. There are supplemental health policies in Canada and the UK too (nt)

[1StrongBlackMan]

27. What is it then? n/t

[Rex]

59. Of course it is not, the OP is just stirring shit to get negative replies.

Like all concern trolls do.

[Zorra]

82. +1

[Rex]

89. Been doing that since they started posting on DU3.

As if some of us long time posters didn't notice.

[Comrade Grumpy]

6. I guess this country is just to damn poor to provide health care to its citizens.

But look at all those shiny new F-35s!

[Recursion]

7. Sounds like a reason to be skeptical of single payer

Seriously.

Here's a man with a medical need, and it costs him $3000/month to stay alive.

He's on Medicare, the single-payer system we want to expand to everyone.

How do we convince people they won't face this problem?

[Cleita]

15. So do you work for the private health care industry that you would

publish this hit piece and immediately go to trashing single payer? I don't know why this guy pays that unless he's too dumb to pay for a medigap policy. The facts that aren't mentioned in this article are pretty telling. Also, it seems to come from a website that is announcing itself as the Hillary Clinton website, a person who does not believe in single payer because her Byzantine Hillarycare scheme is so much better.

[Recursion]

18. OFFS, somebody already posted this complaining about our health care system

And I was pointing out that this is a failing of the exact system that we want to expand to everyone.

Just look down the page in GD.

[Comrade Grumpy]

16. No, it sounds like a reason to rejigger our priorities.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/16/politics/f-35-jsf-operational-costs/

Cost of the F-35 program so far is $400 BILLION, with costs over the lifetime of the program estimated at $1.5 TRILLION.

That buys a lot of health care.

[Wilms]

8. So the only way to have single-payer is if it doesn't cover serious medical conditions??

That's a specious argument. But go right ahead.

[Recursion]

76. Why doesn't Medicare cover his condition?

Why does a person eligible for Medicare have to spend $3K per month to stay alive?

(Hint: he doesn't. But the "outrage" article about this has 50+ recs right now.)

[Wilms]

86. Wut?

Your OP used Dale's circumstance to suggest that single-payer is a bad idea.

Pardon if I didn't read it right.

[Recursion]

94. There's a very popular post in GD right now quoting this same article

lamenting how the health care system in the US has failed Mr. Dale.

I'm pointing out that the health care system he is eligible for is single payer.

[Wilms]

113. Scanning this thread...

...it's hard to see what you're up to other than knocking strawmen and what have you.

Have a nice day, and best of health to you.

[Cleita]

9. Thoughts.

1)He enrolled in a Medicare Advantage program and that means he doesn't have Medicare but a private insurance or HMO that he signed all his Medicare privileges over to.

2)He has traditional Medicare and is responsible for 20% of his expenses because he didn't buy a supplemental insurance which would cost him $50 to $250 a month. Otherwise his medical expenses would be 100% covered.

If he were responsible for all his medical expenses my guess would be that, according to the information you just gave, that he would be paying $15,000 a month.

He needs to talk to a social worker who knows Medicare to get him the best medical coverage available.

[Gormy Cuss]

19. ^^^This^^^n/t

[nashville_brook]

61. musicians don't pay into social security and medicare

gig to gig. you get paid in cash at the end of the night...on to the next gig.

that's The Gig Economy.

[Cleita]

66. They are still eligible for Medicare and certain conditions like kidney

disease will be covered by Medicare with Medicaid even if the patient is under 65.

[Recursion]

74. Renal failure at any age is covered by Medicare

But Dale is refusing standard dialysis.

[Cleita]

77. They still have to give him care. There is more to it than just

dialysis.

[Recursion]

78. There is. This post is a response to a much more-recommended post on the same article

Dale has Medicare available to him but for a variety of reasons does not take it.

[1939]

102. Yes, but

When you are paid in cash or by the job, it is your responsibility at the end of the year to include yours and the employer's share of Social Security and Medicare along with your income taxes.

[redstateblues]

104. As a lifelong musician it is gig to gig but

it is figured into your income tax. If you don't report any income you won't get much SS. I pay a premium for Medicare.

[Kermitt Gribble]

11. So we can't expand it and fix/fund it at the same time?

This is a right wing argument against Medicare. Any time they see a flaw in a program, they want to scrap the entire program.

[Cleita]

17. Also Daily Kos is backing Hillary Clinton for President, a woman

who doesn't want single payer.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

22. DK is actually like DU there.

The admins prefer Clinton, a majority of the active site members prefer Sanders.

[Starry Messenger]

12. So, keep on buying private insurance?

Not to be unsympathetic, but the article linked to in the diary says that Dale is doing things like refusing dialysis and he also is incurring other expenses against medical advice. It's his life and his body, so his choice, but I think there is definitely more to this story.

[Recursion]

13. Yeah, that's where I'm heading too

As I read this he could get coverage but refuses what is offered.

[TreasonousBastard]

14. We have a country with over 300 million people...

many with unique medical and social histories, with hundreds of thousands of special interests getting paid good money to deal with them and fighting to keep that money.

And legislators who are too stupid or craven to work it all out.

There are no easy answers to getting decent health care to everyone.

[Recursion]

20. So why is centrally-controlled health care the right answer?

Hell, even Canada doesn't insure their entire population centrally, but does it by province.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

35. Considering Vermont's failed flirtation with SP how do we overcome the fact

many states won't have the revenue?

[Recursion]

36. They'll all *have* the revenue but they won't want to tax it

That's the central problem I keep coming up against. We can afford this, but we don't want to. And any talk of moving to a national single payer (which is to say, taking over the other 50% of the health care spending that the government doesn't currently cover) without talking about the taxes that will pay for it is completely pointless. Those two conversations have to happen together.

[Cleita]

37. That's why it has to be national or at least regional like in Canada. eom

[Recursion]

56. Canada is by-province, isn't it?

Though now that you say that, I remember something about the Maritimes doing it all together? That might make more sense: a New England exchange, a Mid-Atlantic exchange, etc...

[TreasonousBastard]

65. I'm not saying it is...

I'm saying we have to rethink our care delivery mechanism(s).

Fat chance of that, though.

Some doctors are jealous of their turfs, fighting things like midwifery. Some doctors are millionaires with specialty practices, while others are going broke. The highest-paying specialty at one point was dermatology, and general practitioners too often are those who are left over after the "good" residencies were filled. Who's going to work out how these MD's can get the best care for their patients?

The doctors' admittance criteria for hospitals might be ridiculous. I'm no expert in how a doctor is allowed to practice in a hospital, but I have seen it where a patient is admitted to a university hospital and because the doctor's and regular hospital records aren't "good enough", a complete workup had to be done, at enormous cost.

And, speaking of costs, too much has already been said about billing practices. They are horrific.

I understand that any payer, private insurance, government program, or whatever, has to guard against fraud, overbilling, and excessive treatment. But, is anyone working on standards for the costs of treatment?

Preventive medicine, education about lifestyle and other dangers... Could go on forever, and many people are...

[Recursion]

67. I am 100% in agreement with you there

I think delivery is the real issue here, rather than provisioning. We could emulate Canada's system down to the last millimeter and we still couldn't afford it, because the delivery systems have gotten addicted to the money and won't give it up without some extreme alterations.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

21. Medicare is not full single payer. It's '80%' of it.

At least for most expenses.

Single payer is 'walk into a hospital/clinic/dr office, get treated, walk out, no bill.'

While the 'Medicare for All' language is useful in pushing ideas, it's not the be all and end all.

[Recursion]

23. So we don't actually mean "Medicare for All"?

I've been saying this for a long time and been lambasted for it. The A+B coverage is actually pretty stingy.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

28. The people who simply wanted to expand medicare were using that as a stepping stone towards

full single payer. Better than nothing, but 'stingier' as you put it than full single payer.

[Recursion]

31. Well, hell, ACA is a stepping stone and it's crapped upon daily

What's the difference?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

32. The difference is that private insurance companies are central to the ACA.

And Medicare is a giant 'public option' that doesn't pay an extra 30-40% of overhead to the insurance industry.

[Recursion]

34. Private insurance companies are central to Medicare!!!

This is what drives me ****ing crazy! People can't even recognize this basic fact. Medicare uses private insurance companies to do its provisioning. But I'm somehow "third way" or whatever for pointing that out.

[Cleita]

43. Yes, various Republican congresses let the fox into the henhouse for

their share of the corporate welfare. However, Medicare still manages to keep their administrative costs under 3%.

[Recursion]

45. The 3% only counts Medicare getting the money from the Trust Fund to Anthem

It's a kind of dishonest figure, frankly. Anthem then provisions the actual care at their contractually-obligated burden rate (which is IIRC 12%, which is better than the ACA).

[Cleita]

49. So what. Anthem has to follow strict protocol set up by Medicare. They

can't refuse payment for any condition or procedure that Medicare allows and if they have squeezed a small profit out of this, I don't like it but we are stuck with it until we kick them out of the system. This is why we need a progressive President and Congress this time around. I favor Bernie but would like O'Malley as well. Those who are happy with how things are now I guess will get just that with Hillary.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

47. What is 'provisioning' in this context? nt

[Recursion]

48. Writing the actual checks and taking the actual receipts

That's mostly done by Anthem in about 2/3rds of the country.

[Cleita]

33. The only thing I would change is make it 100% coverage and have it cover

dental and eye care. I have been dealing with Medicare since the day it went into law. First with my father who suffered from Parkinson's disease and various heart ailments, and many hospitalizations before his death. Then with my husband who suffered from end at age renal disease, which no insurance will cover except Medicare, and now with myself and many friends, who are all elderly.

I'm very familiar with what it does and it is by far the best health care coverage out there. I was always and am confident in care and coverage under Medicare. I had a very bad and costly experience with Medicare Advantage which is actually private insurance but I won't go into that here. Even with it's gaps in coverage, it's much better than any insurance or nothing, which is usually the case with insurance. You might as well not have nothing.

[Recursion]

51. I'd love to see dental included in wherever we go from here

I hadn't really thought about eye care but now that you say that, it's a good idea too.

[Orsino]

57. Medicare for all.

We can expand not only the number of people we cover, but also the age range and the amount of expenses we cover.

Dale's story may be an indictment of Medicare as currently implemented, but not of the concept of single-payer. Anyone with doubts should consider how much worse this story could be with a class of predatory executives and shareholders able to leech even more out of us.

Medicare for all.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

24. Are you a recent business school graduate?

[Recursion]

26. No

I studied liberal arts and then electrical engineering. Why?

[Rex]

41. It is sad, but the OP is always amusing

in their RWing talking points. No single payer...because medicare...uh uh...

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

64. Probably a "small business owner who listens to both sides". nt

[Recursion]

75. My God you guys need some new material

I've split my civilian time between working for the government and working for NGOs. And DU still finds a way to crap on that. Not really surprising, at this point.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

79. I don't think DU does anything. There are individuals at DU with a number of different perspectives

on things. But, be that as it may. The small "business owner who......" bit still cracks me up. What can I say. I like the classics. I have no way of knowing what the fuck you do in your personal time, since I don't know you. I'm a Shaolin monk who travels the US in search for my father, when I'm not fighting crime and rescuing kittens. I don't expect you to appreciate what I do or how hard that is. On the other hand I can only react to what you post here. It's funny though how your concerns always skew to the right in the name of pragmatism. Remind me. What was the brilliant strategy you suggested the Democratic party follow after the 2014 ass whooping?

[Recursion]

80. So, my calling for a $25 minimum wage is "skewing right"?

Or calling for $1.5 trillion dollars in reparations to African Americans?

These are "right" positions?

Interesting.

What amuses me is that I write a post about trade and it gets about 100 responses. I write another post arguing for a minimum income, and it absolutely sinks.

DU sees what it wants to see.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

88. So, what exactly was your advice for the Democratic party again? Man, you make that DU guy sound

like a real asshole. Maybe you shouldn't hang out with him/her since it causes you so much anguish. I don't know what to tell you. He/she just doesn't seem to appreciate you the way you deserve.

[Rex]

91. ...

[Recursion]

92. Yeah? Well, a decade ago he wasn't such an asshole, when I first met him

My views have not changed much (I've gone somewhat to the left, if anything), but I never had to deal with the baseless personal insults back then that I do now.

[Rex]

95. Somewhat to the left! Wow you are so funny!

Thanks for amusing us with that one! Maybe if you posted your true convictions people wouldn't distrust you. Like pretending single payer and medicare are the same thing. Because this one guy refused medicare and has huge medical bills...therefore single payer and we will pretend medicare for all is bad.

[Recursion]

96. Medicare is single payer

Are you actually going to pretend that Medicare is not single payer?

[Rex]

98. You are the one pretending medicare is single payer nobody else in this thread is.

And you seem to not know even the basics about something you pretend to be an expert on. Why is that?

[Recursion]

100. OMFG do you not even know what "single payer" means?

This is ridiculous.

[Rex]

103. Again you are the only person in here pretending to know something that is apparent

by replies that you know nothing at all about. Yes you are being ridiculous. Thanks for admitting to it.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

105. As I said. He sounds terrible. It's a shame that you're forced to hang out with him. And if "moving

to the left" is advising that the party actually "move to the right" (and I'm pretty sure I ain't paraphrasing here). Then I must be in upside down/opposite world or some shit.

[madville]

25. He is choosing to swap out his equipment

Twice a day. Medicare and his insurance will only cover the once a week change recommended by his healthcare provider.

That's what happens with one-size-fits-all coverage, once a week may be fine for 99% of those covered but if he has an adverse reaction to that schedule they apparently won't make an exception for him.

[Cleita]

39. My husband was on dialysis and I didn't find this at all.

The clinic always found ways within the parameters set out by Medicare to accommodate patient's needs. However, they could only do as much as the patient would do. If a patient doesn't cooperate then there is nothing any medical care provider can do.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

29. He's doing something wrong, then.

My Mom is on Medicare and carries coverage to make up the 20% Medicare doesn't -- the cost for that supplemental is $256 per month. She has had more operations, serious illnesses, and hospitalizations than you could shake a stick at the past 15+ years (we're talking easily over a million in care) and she has not had to pay ONE PENNY beyond her monthly supplemental.

Now, her medicine is another issue -- Medicare part D is still faulty, with its donut hole (which my Mom gets into).

[Cleita]

38. That's been my experience with it too. eom

[nashville_brook]

60. musicians generally don't pay into social security and medicare

[TexasBushwhacker]

62. Do you mean he didn't file a tax return for $60 years?

If you're self employed you still pay in.

[nashville_brook]

63. his income wasn't wages.

might have been product such as recordings.

calm down now. go ask him yourself.

[hfojvt]

72. so maybe he does NOT have medicare then

He thought he was gaining something by never paying FICA taxes, but now it is costing him. I forget how many quarters a person needs. I got them a long time ago, but when I was a trumpet player during the summer, FICA has no record of my income for those years. Did not pay in as a paper boy either.

[Recursion]

73. Part A is essentially guaranteed

But even if he has never had any W-2 wages, it's $600/month, which is one fifth of what he's paying.

[TexasBushwhacker]

81. You have to pay in for 40 quarters (10 years)

If you haven't, you can still buy into it at a much lower rate than private insurance. I think Mr Dale's problem is that his Medicare provider will not approve the supplies he says he needs.

[Rex]

101. Mr. Dale refused medicare for whatever reason that we do not know and the article does not say.

And the OP knew that before posting the thread.

[Recursion]

71. Depends

My agent made me form an LLC for my recordings, which passed through a "wage" for all of my royalties, on which I paid FICA and Medicare.

Obviously in Mr. Dale's time things may have been looser, but it's certainly possible for musicians to pay into Medicare. And even if they don't, Part A goes to everybody.

[redstateblues]

108. I have made my living playing music for 30 years

and I paid into both. You do have to report your income. I pay a small premium for medicare.

[Rex]

40. ...

[Recursion]

42. Go on...

There's a post with 50+ recs right now lamenting Mr. Dale's condition and the health care system that makes it possible.

Which is... Medicare.

The system we want to expand to everyone.

[Rex]

44. Yes next you will tell us why we need to get rid of social security.

Nice try. Here is a penny for the effort.

[Recursion]

46. So, no actual response?

Not surprised.

[Rex]

53. Why would I expect you to be a serious poster here when you post RWing crap?

The man had parts of his stomach and intestines removed, had renal failure and cancer more than once. Yet you use him for some cheap bullshit RWing talking point to pretend this is about single payer. 300 million people in this country and because of ONE you heard of (you probably have no idea who Dick Dale is) that is having problems with medicare...we need to never have single payer.

As usual your claim is garbage as is almost every OP you make to stir up shit here in GD.

There, response complete. Your concern troll garbage is just that...carry on.

[hfojvt]

50. took my observation and made an OP out of it

hmmm

[Rex]

54. Slow week...they couldn't run off Octa so now have to try something different.

Always the same garbage with this bunch.

[Recursion]

55. I've been saying this for like 5 years now

I'm glad you've joined the bandwagon.

[hfojvt]

68. I cannot play trumpet any more

since my dental work

So I am not joining any band wagons.

Just making an observation, or two.

From the start my position was that single payer was not politically feasible. Heck, we had a huge electoral backlash even from Obamacare - and still have not recovered.

The public is still electing a majority of Republicans to Congress, I highly doubt if running on single payer is gonna change that.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

69. Where does it say he is on Medicare??

I just reread that article -- nowhere does it say he is on Medicare, just that he pays for "insurance" and the cost of his supplies not covered by that insurance. Nashville_Brook pointed out that, as a musician, he probably did not pay into the Medicare system so would not qualify to participate.

If that is indeed the case, then this story would actually back up the call for Medicare for all.

[Recursion]

70. He's a US citizen over the age of 65

If he's not on Medicare, he had to actively opt out.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

83. No, you have to sign UP for Medicare --

you are not automatically enrolled. And you have to qualify through your work history or pay into the system:

"Anyone age 65 or over is eligible for Medicare. Most people age 65 and over are covered under Medicare Part A for free, based on their work records or on their spouse's work records.

People over 65 who are not eligible for free Medicare Part A coverage can enroll in it and pay a monthly fee for the same coverage. The premium base rate depends on the number of work credits you've earned."

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/medicare-faq-29101-2.html

[Rex]

97. Funny how little the OP knows about a subject they pretend to be an expert on.

Goodluck, I bet they have a weak and inaccurate retort for everything you reply with. It is the OPs MO.

[hobbit709]

84. If like most musicians he never made enough to qualify for Social Security

It would cost him $500+/mo just for Parts A and B, add in the copays and it wouldn't take much to get him to that $3K/mo

[TexasBushwhacker]

107. If you mean he never reported his income

and paid FICA taxes, then that was a really bad choice. If he was paid in cash for his gigs, that's still reportable income that's subject to FICA and income taxes.

Considering he's made enough in royalties and for performances that he owns 80 acres near Palm Springs, I don't think he was especially strapped for cash when he was younger. Perhaps he got some really bad tax advice.

It sucks being old and it sucks even more being old and sick, but I think Dick's problems with the cost of his healthcare are pretty much self inflicted.

[redstateblues]

109. I'm sure Dick Dale had some really good years

so if he reported it he would receive SS. He would have to report royalties of which must have been decent over time.

[GeorgeGist]

111. Maybe you should do more research on Dick Dale and Medicare ...

before leading with this horrible story.

[Doctor_J]

112. so we should stick with the profit model, cuz it's great!!!

Americans, you only deserve the healthcare that's left after the CEO take their billions!

If dick lived in Canada, or any other developed country, his treatment would be covered. Your corporate propaganda would probably be better received at freeperville.