Rolling Stone: The Point of No Return: Climate Change Nightmares Are Already Here

[Generic Other]

Historians may look to 2015 as the year when shit really started hitting the fan. Some snapshots: In just the past few months, record-setting heat waves in Pakistan and India each killed more than 1,000 people. In Washington state's Olympic National Park, the rainforest caught fire for the first time in living memory. London reached 98 degrees Fahrenheit during the hottest July day ever recorded in the U.K.; The Guardian briefly had to pause its live blog of the heat wave because its computer servers overheated. In California, suffering from its worst drought in a millennium, a 50-acre brush fire swelled seventyfold in a matter of hours, jumping across the I-15 freeway during rush-hour traffic. Then, a few days later, the region was pounded by intense, virtually unheard-of summer rains. Puerto Rico is under its strictest water rationing in history as a monster El Niño forms in the tropical Pacific Ocean, shifting weather patterns worldwide.

...sea levels could rise 10 times faster than previously predicted: 10 feet by 2065. The authors included this chilling warning: If emissions aren't cut, "We conclude that multi-meter sea-level rise would become practically unavoidable. Social disruption and economic consequences of such large sea-level rise could be devastating. It is not difficult to imagine that conflicts arising from forced migrations and economic collapse might make the planet ungovernable, threatening the fabric of civilization...."

So far, dead zones have remained mostly close to the coasts, but in the 21st century, deep-ocean dead zones could become common. These low-oxygen regions could gradually expand in size — potentially thousands of miles across — which would force fish, whales, pretty much everything upward. If this were to occur, large sections of the temperate deep oceans would suffer should the oxygen-free layer grow so pronounced that it stratifies, pushing surface ocean warming into overdrive and hindering upwelling of cooler, nutrient-rich deeper water.

...Enhanced evaporation from the warmer oceans will create heavier downpours, perhaps destabilizing the root systems of forests, and accelerated runoff will pour more excess nutrients into coastal areas, further enhancing dead zones. In the past year, downpours have broken records in Long Island, Phoenix, Detroit, Baltimore, Houston and Pensacola, Florida.

Evidence for the above scenario comes in large part from our best understanding of what happened 250 million years ago, during the "Great Dying," when more than 90 percent of all oceanic species perished after a pulse of carbon dioxide and methane from land-based sources began a period of profound climate change. The conditions that triggered "Great Dying" took hundreds of thousands of years to develop. But humans have been emitting carbon dioxide at a much quicker rate, so the current mass extinction only took 100 years or so to kick-start.


http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-point-of-no-return-climate-change-nightmares-are-already-here-20150805?page=4

Alarming article.

[Uncle Joe]

1. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Generic Other.

[billhicks76]

61. Been Waiting For This

Posted link in some earlier comments. I hope Hillary is 100% non-wishywashy on board because I know Bernie is.

[Sunlei]

2. no kidding, I thought I was used to Houston rain storms untill those inches an hour rains started.

keep your insurance paid and add fema flood too if they'll still sell it to you.

We're going back in time to when Houston area was an inland sea.

[DhhD]

73. Yes the area is subsiding and tipping southeastward too due to heavy removal of waters

and displacement of aquifer waters causing earthquakes to crumble the land off the North American Craton due to fracking and oil drilling east and south of the Balcones Escarpment which is part of the southern edge of the craton.

[bemildred]

3. Yep.

Wait until the West Antarctic Ice Sheet starts to slide off in the sea ...

[Sunlei]

7. think if a huge piece slid off at once it would make a tusunami wave so high it would wash over

central America and into the gulf?

[bemildred]

8. They estimate a sea level rise measured in meters when that happens.

Like ten meters.

Probably too slow to cause a tsunami.

[tclambert]

34. Okay, we're still talking about glaciers here. Fast for a glacier is still slow for a snail.

Meters per day, not hundreds of kilometers at a time. They're still saying it will take 50 years. That would be for the West Antarctic Ice Sheet. The East Antarctic Ice Sheet will take quite a bit longer.

Still, we hit 400 ppm CO2 in the atmosphere, a level not seen in about 3 million years, when seas were about 30 feet higher than today. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2013/05/130510-earth-co2-milestone-400-ppm/

[n2doc]

4. That comments section is a sewer of denialists

God I hate those scum

[truebrit71]

17. Simply unreal...delusional arsholes every single one...

...

[Duppers]

31. The deep South = biggest climate deniers

Surprise, surprise - not.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/112789436


God won't let this happen to *us*.

Or if it does happen, then "the gays" standard blame meme ensues.




The other day I was told by a well-known DUer that population does not affect global climate change! Sigh.

[appalachiablue]

42. What's a mere 9 billion population consuming on the planet, pfft!

When are people going to realize and begin to try drastic action, wth does it take! The loss of our media to the corp. right in the last 20 years is tragic, has enabled so much ignorance, loss and suffering.

Last fall I saw one article online about the loss of 50% of the earth's wildlife, since 1970- in 40 years. I was so glad Bill Maher brought it up, but the panel on his show looked clueless...

[jimlup]

33. +1

yep

[Maven]

41. Yup. The freepers and oil industry flacks are working overtime in there. nt

[Sunlei]

5. is there anyway a giant 'airstone' could be lowered into sea deadzones to force some cold water

circulation? or pump up deep cold sea water and dump it over to force more circulation?

or passive move sea water to inland dry tinder filled dead zones and let it soak in slowly.

passive = use siphons.

si·phon


/ˈsīfən/


noun

noun: syphon
1. a tube used to convey liquid upwards from a reservoir and then down to a lower level of its own accord. Once the liquid has been forced into the tube, typically by suction or immersion, flow continues unaided.

[n2doc]

9. The volumes are too huge

and the amount of energy required too great.

Move sea water to land- poison soils with salt

No easy solutions.

[yallerdawg]

6. Come on - everyone knows Venice, Italy is the "canary in the coal mine."

Just put on some "Joni Ernst boots" and we'll all be fine!

[erronis]

11. Ahh, Venice. So quaint and picturesque. Imagine NYC with canals instead of Avenues.

Pirate goondoliers instead of taxis. Rats instead of chihuahuas. The doormen on the second floor (your apartment.) No electricity, no police, no fresh water, plenty of sewage.

The lucky ones can escape to their Hampton retreats using their yachts, altho petrol will be very scarce and who can say what the wind and seas might be doing if going via sail. Again, hope the lucky ones have built their second/third homes on piers that are sunk 100' to prevent their precious's from being washed away.

Oh, so many apocalyptic possibilities. I'm surprised nobody has fictionalized this upcoming doom...

[Javaman]

20. The Hamptons will be underwater by that time.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/11/24/opinion/sunday/what-could-disappear.html?_r=0

[Sunlei]

13. those people need some kind of street watervehicles like slow jet skis.

soon, or hip boots.

Change some of the tourist industry to dive vacations and see the sights underwater.

[cstanleytech]

18. Never understood why someone would build a city on a swamp. nt

[appalachiablue]

43. +1. For real. Although I saw Florence and Rome, didn't make it to Venice. My mon & sister loved it.

In some travel show, it was mentioned lightly that 50% of the people have moved out, but little on why.

[hunter]

85. I've heard it's like living at Disneyland, giant parking lot built on an artificial island included.

It's expensive, everyone is a tourist or employed by the tourist industry; an archetypal "nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there" kind of place.



http://europeforvisitors.com/venice/articles/tronchetto_parking_garage.htm

[smirkymonkey]

50. Wow! Amazing photos!

I couldn't imagine living in a city that was constantly under threat of being reclaimed by the sea.

I'm glad I had a chance to see it before it is completely submerged.

[tblue]

10. But let's defund Planned Parenthood

Because that's what's really important.

(In case it's necessary to add.)

[Sunlei]

14. we many need to eat those cute, well fed on 'hydrolyzed protein' extra, excess babies

[Raster]

67. Yep, that's the low information "shiney object" of the day...

...that and the dead, bleached-blond animal perched atop "The Donald's" head.

[daleanime]

12. kick, kick, kick....

[City Lights]

15. Thanks for the post, Generic Other.

Bookmarking to read later.

[jalan48]

16. It's time to prioritize the issues.

When I see articles like this I'm reminded that some of the other stuff we are arguing over is trivial in comparison. Everyone believes their particular issue is 'the most important', but is it really when compared to this?

[SoLeftIAmRight]

19. Thank you

This is the issue. It will be a battle for the ages, one that must start now.

[Blue_Tires]

21. IT's not like people haven't been warned for years and years...

[Rex]

46. It's not like the GOP and Wall Street didn't know about this for decades.

They just don't give a shit.

[Fuddnik]

22. In the last couple of weeks, we've had between 20-40" of rain in the Tampa area.

Worse than a tropical storm. And about a mile from me, gators are swimming down the street, and it could take weeks to a month for the waters to drain.

Bayous are out of their banks. Downtown Tampa was impassable several times.

I've never seen anything like this in the 13 years I've been here. We used to get a freeze, every year, sometime in December or January. Haven't had one in 3 years.

[Generic Other]

38. And in the Seattle area a record heat wave

The water is warm. Noticeably so.

[Rafale]

23. One Positive Thing Though

No more "Florida Man" headlines of crazy batsh@# stuff. :0)

[smirkymonkey]

51. Now there's a positive outlook!

Always look on the bright side!

[Go Vols]

24. I have been posting this vid for a few years

on climate change.

[tclambert]

36. That's a very good argument.

I think he overstates the worst case scenario of the economic effects of taking action to fight global warming. Expensive action might trigger a recession probably not a depression. I think it would actually stimulate the economy, creating new jobs. It would crush the fossil fuel industry . . . and there's where the resistance comes from. The fossil fuel industry has billions of dollars to fight for its survival politically through propaganda efforts. That industry, those businesses, and the CEOs who are maybe five or ten years from retirement, they want that industry to live, even if it kills human civilization and billions upon billions of people. How many people must die to save the "life" of Exxon Mobil?

[smirkymonkey]

53. That's a keeper!

Thanks for posting!

[lark]

25. Thanks for the OP

We can really see global warming in FL (no major surprise). In June, we had 7 days in a row of temps. 100 or over. I've lived here 40+ years (with 18 years in between in CA) and have never seen weather that hot for a whole week. The next week, it was still nearly as hot, highs were in the high 90's every day. Yes, No. FL is always way too hot in the summer, but never ever has it been like this.
Usually we get maybe 5 days all summer of temps. above 95, this year has tripled that for the first time in my 63+ years.

I'm very concerned about the predicted rise in sea-level.

[AllFieldsRequired]

26. And yet, the entire tea party, most of the republican party, especially the legislators

not only dont believe it, they are working overtime to make sure we harm the environment in overdrive.

Obama recently allowing drilling in the Arctic, insane.

But if you think he is bad, dear god in holy hell can you imagine some nut job like Scott Walker.

The Koch Brothers would become even richer and the environment would suffer exponentially.

[GreatGazoo]

27. "already" ?! We have done nothing but increase gas emissions for 45 years.

How about: "Due to Taking No Action At All for 45 Years: Climate Change Nightmares Are Obvious."

Just like the "deniers" the rest of us have taken no action. We look down on deniers but we know the truth and we also took no action. In a sense, that is worse.

Ringing the alarm bell for 45 years =/= putting out the fire.

[Raster]

68. We've done EXACTLY what the Petroligarchy have wanted us to do.

Nothing.

[drm604]

28. I am so pessimistic at this point.

Drastic action is needed, something that's unlikely given the current political climate. And of course there's the rest of the world...

[roomtomove]

29. I have an answer......

Since CO2 is heavier than air, lets all move to the mountain tops................

[GliderGuider]

30. It's not just climate nightmares

Presented for your consideration:

• Economics (the convergence of problems in our energy, food and money supplies) and authoritarian politics are bringing their own dystopias to the table around the world.
  
  
• Humans and their domesticated animals now constitute a biomass that is eight times greater than the biomass of all the large fauna the planet could support just 12,000 years ago. In the process of growing that large, we have driven the planet's wild animal biomass down to less than a tenth of what it was then.
  
  
• It's possible that there is twenty thousand times too much human activity on the planet to be considered sustainable over the long term. Compared to the last time Homo sapiens was known to be sustainable (circa 10,000 BCE) there are now a thousand times more of us. Even worse, thanks to the energy we now have available each human being alive today has over twenty times the impact on the planet's biosphere that our forebears did - people living in the developed world have about 50 times more impact.
  
  
• The oceans are dying from warming, acidification and hyper-exploitation.
  
  
• Fresh water and soil fertility are depleted.
  
  
• Excessive social complexity and hyperconnectivity are putting our global systems (economics, trade, transportation, communication etc.) at risk of cascading failures.
  
  
• Not to mention that the 2 degree C rise that all the politicians tell us is "safe" is nothing of the sort. We're seeing uncomfortable changes already, with a bit less than 1 degree of warming. We have several decades of additional warming still in the pipeline. If the world stopped using all fossil fuels today we would still be in deep trouble as the planet continues to warm and the oceans begin to give back some of the heat they have so generously buffered over the decades.

And all of this is happening at the same time. There are no international mechanisms to deal with any of it. Welcome to the last decade of the world as you knew it.

[Dustlawyer]

49. Add to that we get something like 90% of our oxygen from the Phytoplancton in the oceans.

When the pollution starts killing off the Phytoplancton we will all get a little S.O.B.

[GliderGuider]

55. Phytoplankton may already be going into decline.

Here's some of the research being done in this area:

http://www.nature.com/nclimate/focus/phytoplankton/index.html

Seriously, every indicator of biosphere health we can see is flashing red.

[tularetom]

54. Regardless of any of this, the sun will burn out someday

And before it does, it will get really big and really hot and fry whatever is left on earth at that point.

My point is, the ultimate fate of the earth is not in dispute, it will cease to exist.

Likewise the ultimate fate of all of us currently living on earth is predictable as well, we will all one day cease to exist.

And whether the earth goes pfft in the next 500 years or 5 billion years, really doesn't matter. It will be gone a lot longer than it was here.

And so will we. So anything we do to "save the earth" isn't really saving it, it's simply postponing the inevitable.

[GliderGuider]

56. Whether our intention is salvation or exploitation, whatever we do simply changes the Earth

The issue is not so much "saving the Earth" - as you point out, it will undergo far greater changes than anything we can visit upon it, as it has in the past.

The issues that work people up seem to be threefold - our own fates, the fates of our children, and the rankling of our consciences. Even those of us who accept that our own and our children's fates are sealed still have to contend with our inner moral voice. For most people, what it takes to quiet that voice is action in favour of the planet and its life, action rooted in the heart and guided by a moral compass. Although full awareness is painful, a mind that is fully awake to the planetary impact of human activity will still find it easier to act from that moral center.

[jtuck004]

64. We know we are all going to hang. Some of us just don't want to help build the scaffold. n/t

[marions ghost]

78. No real leadership

in this crisis.

I understand how hard it is for people to comprehend the implications. It has seemed to happen suddenly. But it is very real.

[GliderGuider]

79. It's been building for 200 years but we only began to recognize it as a problem 40 years ago

Even now most people fall into one of two camps. People either believe a) there isn't really a problem, or b) there is a problem but it is solvable.

There is also a camp c) but it is infinitesimal compared to the other two. It consists of those who have looked at the situation closely enough and calmly enough to realize that both camps a) and b) are wrong. It is a real problem, and for a wide variety of reasons there is no feasible solution. We get called doomers, and everybody wishes we'd shut up and stop being so defeatist.

[marions ghost]

82. I come from a family of biologists, doctors, and three marine scientists--

--we are all in camp c.

Camp c = canaries in the coal mine.

[Duppers]

32. K & R

How can the most important issue of our lifetimes continue to be ignored and denied?!

[Mnemosyne]

62. Ignorance is bliss, until it isn't. nt

[SpankMe]

35. Oh, we're doomed alright.

Just look at some of the ridiculous, trolling comments at the end of the article. One comment implies that the climate scientists don't really believe their own science because the picture of the female scientist in the article shows her holding a hydrocarbon-based plastic water bottle (thus making her into some sort of hypocrite).

Another claims that the radioactive debris form the Fukushima disaster is actually responsible for the ocean warming, and thus the author of the article didn't do proper research into the matter.

These assholes vote. And as long as they do - and elect trolls who believe as they do - then we're completely fucked.

[Gumboot]

37. And you can bet yer last dollar...

... there won't be a word spoken about any of this in the GOP debate tonight. Or any future GOP debates.

Gotta keep their loyal flock ignorant, marching in lockstep to the tune of God, guns, & gays. Oh, and Planned Parenthood.

[Fast Walker 52]

72. it's seriously treason and the worst possibly idiocy

they are a fucking death cult, taking us all down.

[tclambert]

39. Tomorrow (Friday) NOAA will report global temperatures for July.

Last edited Fri Aug 7, 2015, 01:11 PM - Edit history (1)

Anybody wanna guess how 2015 is shaping up so far? Hint: The first half crushed the record temps of 2014. Plus they are talking about a possible super El Niño lasting the rest of this year and into next year. That usually means higher than normal surface temperatures. I'm expecting we reach an annual temp of 1 ̊C above the 20th century average for the first time. Yay?

Edit to say: Now it looks like the July data comes out on the 19th.

[GliderGuider]

40. Yay? Nay! nt

[Enthusiast]

44. Kicked and recommended to the Max!

We can't stop this as long as we have corporate rule.

[Rex]

45. Of course they are and like millions of others, I will watch as we finish off OUR ecosystem.

Stupid fucking greedy assholes and their inability to think past their lifetimes brought us here to our own doom.

[heaven05]

47. This^^^^

[ladyVet]

48. You want to hear something really weird?

We're having the first "normal" summer here in NC in years. It's hotter than it should be, but for the first time in at least five years it's not raining five days out of seven. We've had years of almost constant rain, while the weather doofus people act like it's perfectly normal.

Last year, I lost most of my garden, because it was always wet. We never had to water. Spring was late, with a late frost that killed the blossoms on my pear trees, and the early summer was extremely cool. It took forever before anything started growing, and then with the rain nothing ever got going like it should.

This year, my brother ended up planting what he wanted, because my seeds either didn't sprout or died, but things are going gangbusters.

I believe we're too late to do anything to stop climate change. If we acted now, everywhere on Earth, we might mitigate it somewhat, maybe even decades from now see it start back to a better condition. But I'm not holding my breath.

The people that want to destroy this planet amaze me. Where do they think they're going to live? Do they have no concerns at all about what faces their descendants? Maybe they know something we don't. Building arks to live in space like kings? An asteroid going to wipe us out? Except for the ones with huge underground bunkers?

[mnhtnbb]

76. Our June was almost entirely 90 degree days--unheard of--in Chapel Hill (NC)

Many of those days were high 90 degrees, which is 10 degrees over the normal average highs
for June.

I wouldn't call that "normal". I suspect that 2015 will end up beating 2014 as the hottest year on record.

And last winter--in February--we had several days of single digit temps. Again, unheard of around here
when the average lows are in the upper 20's to low 30's.


It really does feel to me (and I've only been here in NC 15 years) like the patterns of weather are changing
and we are getting more extremes at both ends of the thermometer.

[PasadenaTrudy]

52. Glad I didn't have kids

for several reasons. Glad I'm old.

[GliderGuider]

57. I am glad to be childless too. It may be perverse of me, but I'm glad that I'm not too old.

I'm 64, and it's quite likely I will see the second wave of calamities strike (the first is already here.) I want to be a witness to the unfolding events.

[PasadenaTrudy]

58. I don't want to see it...

I'm 51 and I feel old. Been through a lot. I can't imagine being around another 30+ years. Hope I'm not. I cannot handle the heat, if it's over 80, I feel sick. Where I live, in SoCal, it's summer through Nov. now. It hasn't been cold enough for a coat in years. I don't even own one anymore, lol! I can't handle this and can't move.

[Duppers]

63. There's a thread on this subject...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027048742

[PasadenaTrudy]

90. Thanks!

We discuss this a lot on the childfree by choice sites I visit.

[Raster]

69. My co-worker had his two kids in the office yesterday.

Beautiful kids, smart kids. Nine and six. I often wish I would have had kids. And then, I look at what looms ahead. I am 58.5. The planet and it's wonders that I knew as a child will never be again.

[PasadenaTrudy]

89. It's such a different world now

I mean, the world has never been perfect, but now we have the science and tech. to know what is at stake. Plus, it's just so crowded now, at least where I live. I rarely see kids playing in yards, riding bikes, exploring. I never see them climbing trees. I'm just glad I was a kid back in the 70s, at the tail-end of the innocent times.

[Blue_In_AK]

59. Anchorage is on track to have the most 70+ degree days in a single summer,

and huge swaths of the landscape have burned. This is from our Division of Forestry, as of July 30.

As of July 30, a total of 729 fires have burned an estimated 4,748,842 acres in Alaska this fire season. There are still 258 active fires burning in Alaska, though that number is dropping daily with the help of Mother Nature in the form of rain.

While it's fun to have a sunny, hot summer, it's not "right" for Alaska, especially to still be in the 70s at this time of year.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

60. gulp.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

65. This part stood out....

"...It is not difficult to imagine that conflicts arising from forced migrations and economic collapse might make the planet ungovernable, threatening the fabric of civilization...."

Only in the sense that people are going to rise up against the elite and their right-wing politics that brought this horror upon us.

[JayhawkSD]

77. We should not be paying attention to this part.

We should be ignoring the hyperbole and alarmism that includes phrases like "it is not hard to imagine," terms like "might make" and "threatening the fabric."

This is a fiction writer shooting for headlines and capturing readers through colorful and dramatic language. It is not serious. It is also not hard to imagine, for instance, that aliens might come from Alpha Cenntauri and shoot heat guns to overheat our planet and destroy us all in a matter of weeks.

The discussion of what is happening to our planet should be based informed prediction based on observation, not on the feverish imagination of some Rolling Stones fiction writer.

[Hissyspit]

66. Super Typhoon to hit Taiwan

[raouldukelives]

70. Well, heck. Best get to investing even more in corporations.

The time to profit off the death of everything is quickly coming to its logical conclusion.

There are those who take this issue seriously and there are those who assist in the creation and expansion of the coming holocaust by laboring and investing in the very companies assuring we take no steps and that the truth is suppressed for the good of the market and those reliant on it.

They love to look at pictures of nature, of animals, of wildlife, and think to themselves. "I care about you even if others don't"
When in reality, if they are connected to Wall St, they are themselves the careless people they are referring to.

[egold2604]

71. Check out ExtinctionRadio.org for weekly updates on climate change

Last edited Fri Aug 7, 2015, 09:52 AM - Edit history (2)

www.extinctionradio.org

[DFW]

74. And listen to the denier states howl for immediate help

When Miami, Tampa, Muscle Shoals, Biloxi, Galveston and Corpus Christie are only navigable like Venice with gondolas.

[JayhawkSD]

75. Starts off good...

...but the first sentence of the second paragraph is the prediction of a 10-foot sea level rise that "could" happen by 2065; a prediction that is far more catastrophic that any I have seen in any other article. And I read a lot of them because I have a serious concern about climate change, and take it very seriously and do believe that it is happening faster than we think.

Even in the first paragraph it hypes the fire that jumped I-15 in rush hour traffic, but that was four lanes and the Witch Creek Fire in San Diego jumped twelve lanes in 2007.

Because I take the subject seriously, I object to alarmists who make apocalyptic predictions and engage in hyperbole. They do the subject a disservice because they turn the subject into a clown show, and give ammunition to those who would discredit the need for action. We cannot afford to do that.

[GliderGuider]

80. What if the problem really IS that serious?

But nobody got too alarmed over it, so everyone spent more effort trying to grow the world economy than solve its problems and the positive feedback loops that drive them? And as things slide into the shitter we'd hear people like you saying "OK, so maybe we should have been more worried..."

In this situation I find it far more acceptable to be too worried than not worried enough. Even though I don't think the problem of what we've done to the planet can be solved with the tools and organization we have at our disposal, I'd rather see us trying as hard as we can - rather than sitting back and waiting until it's obvious to a Republican that it's too late.

[JayhawkSD]

83. Did you read what I wrote?

Did I suggest anything that "nobody {should get} too alarmed over it" ar anything close to that?

What I said was that when people engage in such extreme speculation they provide ammunition for those who don't want to get alarmed. They allow the unconcerned to point to the wild speculation and claim that those of us who are truely concerned are just a club of wild eyed alarmists screaming about aliens.

They actually weaken our cause because they make us less believable.

[GliderGuider]

84. How could "our cause" possibly get any weaker?

Nobody is doing anything about climate change now, beyond a few halfhearted attempts to put up some windmills and solar panels.

If the worst case is really really bad, how do you say so without sounding alarmist?

I'm perfectly fine with having people engage in alarmist speculation that has some foundation. Hansen's sea level rise speculation has such a factual foundation in the Eemian paleoclimate reconstructions. There is nothing wrong with fact-based speculation, even if it comes up with answers we don't like.

What's most alarming to me is that it's the people with the most knowledge who are becoming the most alarmed.

[ananda]

81. There is just something about climate change that ..

.. so many people just can't look at and take responsibility for.

This has something to with a psychological complex, I think,
and it probably reaches across psyches collectively as well.

It's as though they literally can't see the world, and their place
in it, the way it is. Their world is a made up fantasy in some
ways.

[GliderGuider]

86. A lot of it has to do with how our brains are wired.

Last edited Sat Aug 8, 2015, 04:53 PM - Edit history (1)

We have a very steep built-in discount function for risks. This means that distant, abstract risks convey a very low sense of urgency compared to immediate, concrete risks. It's an evolved feature (i.e. hard-wired in our brains) that makes sure we worry more about the lion behind that bush over there than about the storm clouds on the horizon. In this case we worry more about the possibility of losing our job next week than about possible climate instability in the next few decades.

Then there is normalcy bias, motivated reasoning and groupthink. Together, these four universal psychological features account for most of the denialism we see around climate change.

[ananda]

92. Hmm.. that groupthink phenomenon is ominous for sure.

That one gets me every time. I succumb to it too sometimes;
and I've seen it also.

Take for example, being in a group that likes to pray ... it
gets really hairy then.

So if everyone in your neighborhood is against climate change
and all you ever hear are their endless arguments, you might
well find yourself moving in that direction.

I know... say it aint so, but it's hard to buck a tide.

[Romulox]

87. The world's population has nearly doubled in my lifetime. Driving a Prius won't change that. nt

[GliderGuider]

91. I was born in 1950, right as things were taking off.

Since 1950, our impact on the planet has gone up 7-fold, as measured by the energy the world uses. In that time the population has gone up almost 3 times, and each of those people uses an average of 2.5 times as much energy as a person did in 1950. CO2 emissions from fossil fuels have gone up by a factor of 6.

Most of the world is locked into a high-energy, high-impact way of life that is based mostly on fossil fuels. Those parts of the world that don't use a lot of fossil fuels themselves benefit from (or even depend on) products and technologies developed in the places that do.

There is no way to back down from this mountain peak gracefully. If we collectively were to stop growing and take a step back, many of the systems that our civilization is critically dependent on would falter and possibly fail - starting with the world's economy.

Unfortunately, there are increasing signs that we cannot keep growing; that we are hitting the Limits to Growth that were written about in 1972. From a complex-systems point of view, this is an impossible situation. We can't keep growing, we can't shrink without setting the wheels of collapse in motion, and we can't stand still because the planetary damage is already too severe.

Because of our evolved nature we will keep growing if at all possible, until Mother Nature smacks us with a limit we can't defeat. At that point we will begin to collapse. This may already have happened, as the world's weather changes and economic troubles imply.

[frankieallen]

88. I think that movie "Day After Tomorrow" didn't help because

it was so over the top stupid. It made a joke out of climate change.