TPP hits wall

[Panich52]

Campaign for America's Future

TPP Hits Wall

Big obstacles to TPP agreement. NYT: "Tokyo was ready to extend major concessions on American truck tariffs but was blocked by Mexico ... Canada held firm on protecting its politically sensitive dairy market ahead of elections in October, but for New Zealand ... that was unacceptable ... And virtually all of the parties hated American protections of pharmaceutical firms, but a compromise on that issue could cost the support of Republicans in Congress."

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/08/04/business/international/trans-pacific-partnership-session-ends-with-heels-dug-in.html?referrer=

[jberryhill]

1. Quelle Surprise

Gee, I learned on DU that it was a done deal.

[Demit]

4. Really? I don't remember that.

I remember reading that Congress did give Obama a win on Fast Track authority. But not that he had the 11 other countries in the bag.

[BeanMusical]

23. Lol, yes. I heard the same thing again and again.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

39. The U.S. "fast track" approval was a done deal.

Apparently, other nations ignore our supreme authority on these matters.

[whathehell]

2. Good!

The TPP is a terrible 'trade' deal which will offshore jobs, keep us from knowing where our food comes from, and that, believe it or not, is not even the worst of it!

In addition, it actually undermines national sovereignty and representative democracy...I don't believe it could be much worse.

[djean111]

3. You got that absolutely right. nt

[ananda]

7. For me, the TPP outshadows everything else.

This is a deal that wants to privatize every resource and commodity on the whole damm planet.

And it was written by and for corporations and privatizing interests.

I hope it dissolves into dust. That's all it's worth anyway.

[whathehell]

8. Yup, me too.

There's another deal similar to it being proposed for Europe...The goal seems to be corporate control of the world, and I find thst terrifying.

[ananda]

41. I know.

After seeing the way that the Greek people were so bizarrely betrayed,
I really fear for Europe too.

Sometimes I wish we could just burn all the money in the world, delete
every bank account, and start from scratch just being human with each
other on an equal basis everywhere.

I guess we'd have to get rid of the 300 million guns over here first, much
less the ones around the world.

Some dream ....

[jberryhill]

9. Any treaty "undermines national sovereignty"

Any treaty is, by definition, an agreement by a country to do, nor not to do, something it could otherwise do in the scope of its national sovereignty.

That particular species of treaty objection is like observing that "water makes things wet".

[whathehell]

18. Representative democracy too?

No, I didn't think so.

Sounds like you need to learn about the Investor State Dispute Settlement courts.


http://www.citizen.org/investorcases

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/investor-state-dispute-resolution/

[jberryhill]

27. Yes, all treaties do both of those things

There are a lot of problems with various pieces of the TPP. You don't seem to understand the larger point about treaties generally.

You seem not to understand that the general propositions "treaties undermine sovereignty" and, yes, "representative democracy" are both true in all instances of treaties.

You can take ANY treaty and say that it "undermined national sovereignty" and "representative democracy". Take something as mundane as NATO. If a NATO member is attacked, the US is committed to war, and no vote will be taken.

Again, there are all sorts of reasons to criticize various TPP proposals. But the general statements about "sovereignty" and "democracy" are facile slogans applicable to any treaty.

[whathehell]

30. Um, no, not to the degree of this one..

"Again, there are all sorts of reasons to criticize various TPP proposals. But the general statements about "sovereignty" and "democracy" are facile slogans applicable to any treaty"


If you bothered to read the links I provided, you'd know that the fact of it's negatively affecting representative democracy is

one of the deal's MAJOR criticisms by trade attorneys and the majority of congressional democrats, duh.

[jberryhill]

35. I think you are still missing the point

"not to the degree of this one"

That's a difference of degree, which you seem to acknowledge.

The point is, it is merely tautological to claim a treaty "undermines sovereignty and representative democracy". Every treaty does that, and the employment of slogans which are true of every treaty in every instance doesn't advance an argument.

[whathehell]

38. I think you are..

The 'difference in degree' can make all the difference.

For instance, to a degree, a very small one, the US is a Socialist nation. It's what liberals often point out

to conservatives expressing fear of socialism; Medicare, Medicaid and Veterans health care

are "socialistic". That doesn't mean we don't need Bernie Sanders and Healthcare for all, obviously.

Depending on the subject being discussed, the "difference in degree" can mean the difference between life and death.

[grahamhgreen]

44. Does every treaty allow US laws to be overturned by corporate courts like this one? No.

So are you for or against the TPP, or too afraid to say?

[jberryhill]

45. I've already said I opposed the TPP

That does not mean that I support simpleminded rhetoric that is applicable to any treaty.

And, to be clear, I oppose the TPP if the final version, which appears unlikely now, includes the sorts of things that have been discussed at length in relation to leaked draft versions.

You may not understand that it is entirely possible to agree with a conclusion, and still be able to recognize a stupid rhetorical argument.

[BeanMusical]

24. +1

[lonestarnot]

5. Clown car implosion.

[City Lights]

6. Good!

[rhett o rick]

10. k & r. Thanks for posting. nm

[99th_Monkey]

11. Great! Now Obama can focus on Climate Change and getting Iran deal passed -nt-

[Enthusiast]

12. Stop the whole TPP. End it. Finish it! Kaput! No trade deal!

[Betty Karlson]

48. My sentiments exactly. n/t

[Enthusiast]

13. Tell the Republicans there is a TPP provision that places the United Nations in charge of

domestic enforcement of the new TPP Sharia laws.

[Javaman]

14. hopefully this is the start of the great unraveling. nt

[daleanime]

21. +1

[rurallib]

15. maybe the overwhelming greed of the rich fucks will kill this deal

hoisted on their own petard as it were.

[Maynar]

16. They'll retreat, regroup and try again later.

Vigilance!

[Fuddnik]

17. Kill it!!!!!!

[jalan48]

19. Now, why again do Hillary and Obama support it?

[whathehell]

32. Maybe because they are corporatists?

Wall Street basically wrote this thing and they're both recipients of LOTS of Wall St. money.

[MisterP]

34. because it won't affect the party or their own legacies one whit--"think about SCOTUS" everyone says

[daleanime]

20. We can hope....

[lark]

22. Come on other countries. Do the right thing and walk away.

Be like Australia, have some backbone. Don't let the international oligarchs mess up things even worse than they are now. Sometimes no deal is the best thing of all!!

BTW - totally burns my butt that Obama has sold out on sex slaves in Mayanmar. How can he sleep at night? Guess counting the money he will earn out of office could be soporific?

[BeanMusical]

26. "totally burns my butt that Obama has sold out on sex slaves in Mayanmar. How can he sleep at nigh"

I'm totally disgusted by that and other things related to this POS deal.

[BeanMusical]

25. Excellent.

[FairWinds]

28. The TPP is a project of an international financial cabal . .

which means that we need an equally international movement to defeat it.

I have urged New Zealanders to oppose it, and thanked them when they did so.

Please do likewise with any contacts you have in TPP countries.

[OnlinePoker]

29. Canada held firm on protecting its politically sensitive dairy market...

It's not just on protecting markets. Here in Canada, it is illegal to use BST growth hormones in dairy cows. If antibiotics need to be used on a cow or herd, all milk is discarded for a proscribed period to keep the antibiotics out of the food stream. TPP would have opened our borders to U.S. milk and we wouldn't know what was in it.

[cascadiance]

31. And other countries need to hold firm on mad cow disease prevention standards...

... that both the U.S. and Canada violate when they allow cow parts to be fed to poultry and pigs and then those animal parts fed back to cows. There has been a big concern that these animals are silent carriers of mad cow disease and could allow the disease to persist.

http://www.greens.org/s-r/33/33-09.html

Just this year a case of mad cow disease in Alberta would appear to support this concern.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/latest-bse-case-in-alberta-a-setback-for-beef-export-strategy-1.2982649

So, the way corporate interests would stop regulation from controlling imports affects many countries in many different ways. We couldn't sell labeled dolphin safe tuna in our country too based on what the NAFTA WTO court ruled earlier.

[Panich52]

46. Makes one think of Big Pharma's major seat at the negotiations...

[Buns_of_Fire]

33. Good. Now that it's stunned, drive a stake through its heart.

Drop it in the acid bath.

Squash it squishy with a stamping press.

Make it watch reruns of Supertrain.

But, like Aahnold, it'll be back.

[bbgrunt]

36. I'll believe it when we see

its cold dead carcass buried so deep it can never be found.

Seriously. I've been whip-lashed too many times by this kind of hopeful speculative story. It's not dead until it's DEAD, DEAD, DEAD. With big enough pay outs, the pols can always find a way to suddenly pull rabbits out of a seemingly flat and empty hat.

[MannyGoldstein]

37. Once again, we see why Bernie is a menace and a threat

These SOCIALIST countries can't get their acts together! Only our exceptional DEMOCRACY is able to freely enter into agreements to crush the Lumpenproles.

QED, baby.

We need FREEDOM, not full bellies.

Regards,

TWM

[GitRDun]

40. I can understand Obama's thought about trying to set trade rules

but these trade rules are built on crap, not rock:

1). No trade deal keeps companies from moving jobs overseas. Lower costs do. You cannot do enough trade deals to cover enough countries to make a difference. Lol, China and India are not a part of TPP. In fact, the US has trade agreements with only 20 countries.

https://ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements

2). People make a deal work, not paper. You cannot stick enough rules in the paper, or police these deals enough to make a difference. A country that needs GDP will do what's in its national interest, regardless of what's on the page. Countries don't enforce them. The US does not do enough to gain compliance.

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/318-66/30237-focus-elizabeth-warren-report-decades-of-failure-to-enforce-labor-standards-in-free-trade-agreements

In the end, while I hope TPP fails, even if it passes, it won't keep us from losing jobs or really change anything at all. TPP IS ONE BIG WASTE OF EVERYONE'S TIME.

[Panich52]

47. Rec this reply

[Populist_Prole]

42. Crash and burn baby!

I'm very happy to hear this, but as another poster said, be vigilant.

They will try to push this through again. Who knows, maybe this was a much of a "calibrated leak" or spin to give us a false impression so that we put down our swords and shields and go back home to bread & circus world.

[Dems to Win]

43. I'm rooting for Japanese farmers.

I've felt for a couple of years that Japan would never open its agricultural markets the way TPP would require. Japan is very picky about the food they eat and where it comes from, and they protect their domestic farmers/ranchers/fishermen fiercely.

Fingers are crossed the entire deal can be killed dead, forever.