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MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 11:33 AM Aug 2015

I joined the Democratic party in 1960, as a high school kid. Here's what I've learned.

From the very beginning, and throughout my active participation ever since, I've seen people come to party meetings of one sort or another and express their dissatisfaction with the status quo. Invariably, they wanted to change things in major ways. Problem was that they ignored the realities of politics in a nation that relies, more or less, on majority rule. Also invariably, they left, never to return to the discussion. They saw their goals as obviously correct, but couldn't get agreement on them.

Why do we have two major parties? Because we are based on majority rule, in general. What that means is that there are basically two choices for everything we vote on, either in the polling place or in our legislative bodies. That carries right down to precinct and district level political organizations. We vote on everything, and the majority rules in almost all cases. For major changes, a super-majority is often required, even.

I've attended a few dozen Democratic Party conventions, usually at the district level. One of the things that happens at those conventions is the introduction of resolutions that are basically designed to become part of a platform at that level or that will be voted on again at a higher level.

We vote at those conventions on those resolutions. No majority vote and the resolution goes no farther. Majority rules, because that's how our system is set up. The Democratic Party is a big tent. It's members include people that favor a wide range of views, starting with centrist views and moving toward the left. But, it's a majority thing. Stuff that's borderline centrist or borderline leftist rarely can get a majority of agreement. Big changes come slowly, and only after being proposed multiple times.

A lot of people show up every year, but then leave and don't return, because what will get majority support isn't what those people want. They opt themselves out of the party discussion with only a one-time try. This is what I've seen over and over again. Their big proposals don't have a chance, because they're introduced just once, and the frustrated person who introduced them left and never returned.

We have a two-party system because everything of any importance, from electing a President to passing laws in federal and state legislatures, requires a majority vote. We don't have thriving third parties, because they interfere with those majority decisions, and don't have enough participants to get a majority for their point of view.

That is the system that is in place. There's no real way to change it in a wholesale way, since a change also requires majority agreement. Is that a flaw in the system? That depends on your point of view. It is a flaw if the majority won't support things you believe are crucial. It is a flaw if you cannot get majority support for what you want. The system is designed to change only after convincing a majority that a change will be beneficial. That almost always takes time.

A lot of people won't participate in the political system that is in place. It's too lethargic and slow to change, in their opinion. So, they refuse to participate. The thing is that the system in place is the one that is in place. Lacking majority agreement that major change is needed, there's no way to get those changes.

Change in a two-party majority-based system cannot come quickly. That's both the beauty and the ugliness of two-party systems. Those who reject the party system don't participate in it. They lock themselves out of the way such systems change over time. They want a system that supports the minority views they hold, and refuse to participate in any system that doesn't support those minority views.

I don't see a solution. The Democratic Party is truly a big tent party. If you participate, your point of view will be heard, but may not be accepted by a majority. If you persist, you may be able to gain that majority support. If you leave, you will not gain any support at all and things will continue as they are, with only incremental changes. If your voice is not heard repeatedly, you will not prevail. It's pretty much that simple.

The tent flap is open, and every point of view is welcome. Every point of view will not immediately get the support of the majority, though. If you want your point of view to be accepted by the majority, you have to stay under the tent until that happens. If you leave, your point of view is off the table. You have to be in the tent to be heard. Your choice, really.

I know: tl;dr. But there it is.

52 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I joined the Democratic party in 1960, as a high school kid. Here's what I've learned. (Original Post) MineralMan Aug 2015 OP
I've always stayed under the big D tent for decades. I know the world's not perfect, and I feel RKP5637 Aug 2015 #1
Me, too. I've seen changes happen. They're still happening. MineralMan Aug 2015 #3
Since 1959 here fredamae Aug 2015 #2
OK. But if you step out, you enable what you think is the problem. MineralMan Aug 2015 #4
I understand fredamae Aug 2015 #7
A state party isn't some bag of unending money... ConservativeDemocrat Aug 2015 #38
I don't have fredamae Aug 2015 #45
Well I suppose not ConservativeDemocrat Aug 2015 #51
Why, thank you fredamae Aug 2015 #52
I agree with your great post daybranch Aug 2015 #47
I feel that there is an almost complete disconnect between the Democratic platform djean111 Aug 2015 #5
It depends what issues you're looking at, in many ways. MineralMan Aug 2015 #6
why not vote for Bernie daybranch Aug 2015 #48
Oh, I will be voting for Bernie! He is more of a Democrat than many many Democrats. djean111 Aug 2015 #49
When did you first actually "join"... I mean register as a Democrat. OKNancy Aug 2015 #8
When I was 21, in 1966. MineralMan Aug 2015 #9
there are multiple good solutions, only 2 choces are being sold to us nt msongs Aug 2015 #10
We have a two party system. MineralMan Aug 2015 #12
Shorter: Come to the fucking meetings, we are too old to carry the big coffeemaker anymore. msanthrope Aug 2015 #11
I quit carrying the coffee maker. There's a kid who does that now. MineralMan Aug 2015 #13
I hope my post was truly helpful..... msanthrope Aug 2015 #14
No offense taken. MineralMan Aug 2015 #15
You are good at it. I am glad I didn't cause offense. nt msanthrope Aug 2015 #19
Third Parties 1939 Aug 2015 #16
Third parties. MineralMan Aug 2015 #17
That's why I've always been a registered Democrat, even though I'd have always preferred Hortensis Aug 2015 #46
I think many of the dissatisfied ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #18
Three or four party systems MineralMan Aug 2015 #20
Oh I agree ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #21
Exactly right. Thank you for MineralMan Aug 2015 #23
Thanks for initiating this very thoughtful discussion, MineralMan! n/t pnwmom Aug 2015 #22
Thank you for reading it. MineralMan Aug 2015 #24
thanks...k/r bonzotex Aug 2015 #25
Excellent post, Mineral Man. Thanks. BlueMTexpat Aug 2015 #26
I thought you were a republican who switched - TBF Aug 2015 #27
You thought wrong. I have never once voted for any Republican. MineralMan Aug 2015 #29
Just from what I read in that excerpt - TBF Aug 2015 #34
Ronald Reagan was the Governor of California. MineralMan Aug 2015 #44
yep you're right heaven05 Aug 2015 #28
I said nothing of the sort. MineralMan Aug 2015 #30
I was not speaking for you in any respect heaven05 Aug 2015 #31
Majority = tyranny alarimer Aug 2015 #32
If people don't participate, they're guaranteed not to be heard. MineralMan Aug 2015 #33
Robert F Kennedy said, "You don't need to be smart to be successful in politics.......... mikekohr Aug 2015 #35
Thanks. Sadly, Bobby Kennedy never MineralMan Aug 2015 #36
K&R, Great post! smirkymonkey Aug 2015 #37
Thanks for your support of Democrats. MineralMan Aug 2015 #41
KnR. You have so much to teach people here, MM Hekate Aug 2015 #39
I'm just passing along things that every active Democrat MineralMan Aug 2015 #42
KnR /nt/ PosterChild Aug 2015 #40
Thanks so much. MineralMan Aug 2015 #43
Funny that your lengthy OP fails to mention that it was truedelphi Aug 2015 #50

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
1. I've always stayed under the big D tent for decades. I know the world's not perfect, and I feel
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 11:38 AM
Aug 2015

comfortable under the big D tent, forever!

MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
3. Me, too. I've seen changes happen. They're still happening.
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 11:43 AM
Aug 2015

I've been actively participating since 1960, and will continue to participate actively. I'm always looking for ways to change things. Sometimes, it's successful, but only if I can convince the majority. In many ways, I think that's appropriate. It's the Democratic Party, after all. Democracy represents everyone who participates, in the end, and everyone who participates has a vote.

No participation; no vote.

fredamae

(4,458 posts)
2. Since 1959 here
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 11:43 AM
Aug 2015

And I left because our populist ideas made the cut....Are in the platform...and still, a rightward, corporate biased turn in policies over and over again. Hell, Democrats here couldn't even honor the Peoples Majority Vote and I doubt most Dem politicians have even read the damned platform.
There is a Super Majority/Trifecta Dem Control here.

The system itself is cherry picked to suit the wealthy only in this two party system...Corporate always gets the Better deal, and that's why folks are stepping out, imo.
The flaps are Open....Ideas are welcomed....but Ignored by the PAB.

MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
4. OK. But if you step out, you enable what you think is the problem.
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 11:45 AM
Aug 2015

That's the point of my OP, really. What is needed is for more people to step in. If enough do that, then a majority is far easier to obtain.

fredamae

(4,458 posts)
7. I understand
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 12:09 PM
Aug 2015

and a dear friend who had just joined Dems..to run for office himself to try and boot the GOP grip in his dist...had Zero support from state Dems....had a $2k out of pocket campaign....and hit 31% -said the very same thing.
He advised me "Don't get pissed and Leave-Get Pissed and Join"
I did, I became a Delegate, attended/participated in the Dem Platform Convention.

After the Dem Super Majority Ignored the will of the voters and found a way to allow Minority rule? When Wyden, Schrader, Bonamici and For the Love of God..Earl Blumenauer pushed For TPP? I gave up. No longer angry (ok, maybe a little)...just sad. But Still active as a NAV.

ConservativeDemocrat

(2,720 posts)
38. A state party isn't some bag of unending money...
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 11:31 PM
Aug 2015

...so they're going to spend it where they think they can win. Which isn't going to be in an R+15 district. (Sounds like mine.)

This doesn't mean that people who run for office in R+15 districts are not valuable. They keep Republican elected officials nervous.

As for the rest, what do you mean "Minority party rule"?

Finally, you're just going to have to put up with the fact that Democrats have voters who aren't all west-side Portlandia purists. Democrats trust President Obama. This hasn't turned out to be a bad thing.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

fredamae

(4,458 posts)
45. I don't have
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 10:08 AM
Aug 2015

to "put up" with anything anymore from the Dem Party. I'm no longer part of that after 56 years of being a very reliable and Dedicated Dem Supporter.
I don't agree with the conservative shift over the last 40 years and those folks who do...need to put up with those of us, still calling themselves Dems....who are Progressive economically and support the American Worker and TPP (amongst other issues) ain't getting folks like me...on board.

ConservativeDemocrat

(2,720 posts)
51. Well I suppose not
Wed Aug 5, 2015, 02:16 AM
Aug 2015

You can decide to support some down ticket third party that pretends to itself that it "supports" American workers more than the Democratic party, which actually supports workers. Thanks to the recent motor voter law passed, it hardly matters anyway. We're going to be a solid blue state.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

fredamae

(4,458 posts)
52. Why, thank you
Wed Aug 5, 2015, 08:19 AM
Aug 2015

for permission to support a candidate of my choice.

Don't be so sure about that "solid blue state"...MVL works Both ways.

daybranch

(1,309 posts)
47. I agree with your great post
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 01:51 PM
Aug 2015

but now the democrats have an opportunity to support a candidate for the people over the rich. No amount of big tent baloney should obscure the main strewn ideas being espoused by Bernie Sanders. His ideas are the big tent not some hokey democrats first no matter what centrist mentality. Democrats must have values and principles. Our party has sold out many times and betrayed our core constituency- working people. All you who call yourselves democrats should rise up, take back the party for the people and get over your self defeating big tent non-sense lest you continue to serve the oligarchy. By the way, I am sure I am as good a democrat as those who continually yell big tent in order to say we are better than the other guys when in truth our candidates are maybe the other guys too.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
5. I feel that there is an almost complete disconnect between the Democratic platform
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 11:49 AM
Aug 2015

and what a lot of Democrats do once they get into office. I feel that many Democrats, once in office, pay no mind to what their base wants, and just does what they are told to do. I feel that Washington, DC is pretty much disconnected from the voters, except when they need votes and money. And CU has taken care of the money part.

I am starting to feel disconnected from the Democratic Party, actually. Been a Democrat, really, since my dad took me to see JFK speak in Chester, Pa. Signed up as soon as I was old enough. The Democratic Party seems to have slid to the right, no matter what the platform says. Here in Florida, I see Debbie Wasserman-Schultz champion candidates who were GOP just a few years ago, and even support GOP candidates because they are her friends. I have read the purpose of the New Democrat Coalition, which says, basically, to hell with ideology, we want to work with the GOP. I no longer feel like going along is going to make the world any better for the 99%.
That is where I am at. Not in a strident way, in a tired way.

MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
6. It depends what issues you're looking at, in many ways.
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 12:01 PM
Aug 2015

It also depends on where you're standing in the political spectrum. Some years ago, for example, the party organizations I was a part of elected delegates and officers that were almost all men. That went on for a long time. If you remember the national conventions, the delegates there were very disproportionately male.

That isn't the case any longer, at least in Minnesota. Sometime before I moved here, the DFL party finally passed a rule that all offices and delegates had to be balanced in gender. Not optional. It was required. In electing officers or a slate of delegates to the next convention, an equal number of men and women had to be elected. A statement to that effect is read at the beginning of every precinct caucus meeting and the rule is followed every time. A majority passed that rule.

We have similar rules regarding PoC and other minorities. If you go to a Minnesota DFL convention, you now see equal participation.

Now, that may seem a small thing, but it's not. It took some time for it to be enacted. Now, though, nobody can imagine it not being in place.

Change is slow. The more people with revolutionary or major ideas for change that participate in the party organization, the faster changes are made. We have fewer PoC participating at all levels in the DFL party than in the general population. We're working hard to change that. I guarantee that if you are a person of color and want to be a convention delegate or party officer, you will be. We're working on that, too.

Change is slow, but it happens if enough people show up and insist that it happen. If you want something to happen, you have to gather a majority in support of your point of view. Bring your like-minded friends. You can make it happen. In the end, though, you must be able to find a majority to vote for your position. That is how the democratic system works. No majority; no change.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
49. Oh, I will be voting for Bernie! He is more of a Democrat than many many Democrats.
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 02:12 PM
Aug 2015

Have you joined the Bernie group? Check it out!

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
8. When did you first actually "join"... I mean register as a Democrat.
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 12:38 PM
Aug 2015

I hated that I had to wait until 1971 to register when the voting age was lowered.

MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
9. When I was 21, in 1966.
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 01:43 PM
Aug 2015

That was also the first year I voted. Before that, I was just a campaign volunteer and general gofer. I observed, asked a lot of questions, and got to know the people in my local Democratic Party organization. I was a smart kid, and they found lots of things for me to do. I was in the USAF in 1966, so I had to register by mail in my home town and vote by absentee ballot. I helped a number of my fellow airmen get registered and vote in their home districts, too. GOTV has always been my primary focus.

Before then, though, I was a member of my local party organization.

MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
12. We have a two party system.
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 02:06 PM
Aug 2015

Why? Because majority rules. That's our system. Changes in it will require a rewrite of the Constitution, and that's not happening.

Very frankly, we have to deal with the system we have. Those who can't don't really have any voice. Have a voice! Participate!

Nothing else does any good at all. Letting Republicans win by default causes great harm.

It's your choice. It's a binary choice. Either you participate in the existing system or you do not. One way, you get to have a small voice. The other way, you're irrelevant.

I prefer to be relevant. I don't just vote, either. I work to get others to vote. That's how I work for change.

You will do as you choose. I'm just suggesting one of the choices you can make. On the bottom line, what any individual person does isn't all that important, so I'm more than willing for you to make your own choices. I've made mine.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
11. Shorter: Come to the fucking meetings, we are too old to carry the big coffeemaker anymore.
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 02:05 PM
Aug 2015


Sorry.....every single thing you wrote is true, and I don't mean to be glib.

MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
13. I quit carrying the coffee maker. There's a kid who does that now.
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 02:08 PM
Aug 2015

I used to be that kid. I bring the donuts, sometimes, though.

Everyone helps, as they are able.

Thanks!

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
14. I hope my post was truly helpful.....
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 02:10 PM
Aug 2015

No, seriously, I hope I did not offend you. I hope you had a happy 70th.

MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
15. No offense taken.
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 02:17 PM
Aug 2015

It's funny. Most local party organization meetings are pretty much chat sessions. The real fun doesn't start until caucus evening. After that, there's lots to do. I always am a delegate to the state senate district convention. Depending on my work load, I sometimes work to be a delegate at the higher levels.

I work the hardest after the primary elections. Then I begin canvassing in my precinct. I used to do a lot more than that, but I'm still working and don't have adequate energy to take a more major role. I could be on the District council or hold some other office, but I've been there and done that, and am happy to let the younger folks take on those jobs now.

I can't be as active as I used to be, sadly. Not and still keep making a living. Thanks, GWB, you asshole! You destroyed my retirement savings. Oh, well. There's no dementia in my family, and sitting in front of a keyboard banging out website content is something I'll be able to continue doing. I'm good at it, so there's always work, and I make decent money doing it.

1939

(1,683 posts)
16. Third Parties
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 02:27 PM
Aug 2015

The history of third parties in the US is that when they become strong enough to seriously damage one of the two major parties, they either take the place of the major party (Republicans replacing Whigs) or their platform gets adopted by one of the major parties and they disappear (the Democrats adopting Free Silver in 1896-1900).

MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
17. Third parties.
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 02:36 PM
Aug 2015

There hasn't been a viable one for a very long time. There have been third parties that acted as spoilers, though. A third party can swing an election to either the Democrats or Republicans, and we've seen that happen a couple of times in the fairly recent past.

In 2016? I doubt it. Maybe if the Clown-in-Chief Trump decided to go third party, he could kill the GOP's chances in the presidential race. Maybe, but I think the GOP is already doomed in that race.

Perot swung an election. Nader may have, although that's unclear, really. I think he had an effect in two states that handed GWB the election, with the help of the SCOTUS. Then there was George Wallace, but he had zero affect on the outcome. His electoral votes would have gone to Nixon, so he didn't change anything.

Third parties don't matter in 2016. They rarely matter. We have two major parties. For almost all important races, a Democrat or a Republican wins.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
46. That's why I've always been a registered Democrat, even though I'd have always preferred
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 11:46 AM
Aug 2015

to be independent. Trying to make a difference with a few like folk would be like spitting my vote into the wind.

ismnotwasm

(42,020 posts)
18. I think many of the dissatisfied
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 02:41 PM
Aug 2015

Would love a three and four party (or more) system that actually works. I think many default to Dem because that is the most --by far--reasonable choice for any progressive who want to participate. At one time I would vote socialist, or Green or some other third party because those systems made better sense to me on an ideolocal basis. Then along came George W. Bush. As complacent as I was with my 'protest' voting--I followed politics enough to be very aware of Bush even when he was Govener of Texas. I remember thinking "No way in hell does he have a chance" --Yet he did. That ended my 'ideological"-write-in-a-name-because-there-both-the-same--voting. I instead became more involved (most often through my Union) in the political process or, at least more aware of what it actually takes to pass legislation, to effect any change at all. What the story is behind the hype.

So I get dissatisfaction, I get the anger, and the feelings of helplessness. I get how great the feeling of hope is as well, when hope is offered. I get how people are misdirected on how politics work. (I also understand what a game-changer the Internet has been) I've been there. I'd quite possibly still be there if I hadn't been stunned, gobsmacked really, by the Presidency of Bush. (Actually the fact that he actually was nominated was shocking to me)

Quite simply though, today I choose to be a Democrat.

MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
20. Three or four party systems
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 03:06 PM
Aug 2015

only work in a parliamentary-style government. Here, we have just one President and the Constitution requires that President to be elected by a majority of Electoral votes. If nobody gets a majority, the Presidency is decided by the House of Representatives. That, in the United States, would be a disaster.

I'm not opposed to using a different system, but that would require a new Constitution. The risks of that are almost incredibly hard to determine, and would depend on who was in power, politically, at the time. Given the views of a lot of Americans, who have no real idea of what is actually in the Constitution, the result of rewriting the Constitution might well be horrendous to every minority group in the country.

The genius of our Constitution is that it limits the power of the majority to inflict hardships on the minority. It doesn't eliminate that problem, but it limits it. The protections minority groups have, due to the Constitution, could so easily be lost during a rewrite of that fundamental document.

There is zero assurance that liberal concepts would be included and a high risk that minority groups that are disliked would see their freedom and equality completely removed. I have zero confidence that a rewritten Constitution would be as good as the current one and strong fears that it would be horrible.

So, we're stuck with a two-party system. We have to make the best of that system, and we can, if everyone with progressive, liberal ideas will actually get off their asses and go to the polling place for every election. They don't do it now. Not even close. It's sad and embarrassing. Many people don't care. Others allow single issues to dictate whether they will even bother to vote. That kind of shortsightedness often leads me to despair. We have abysmal turnout, especially when the presidency isn't on the ballot. How foolish we are sometimes!

/rant

ismnotwasm

(42,020 posts)
21. Oh I agree
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 03:34 PM
Aug 2015

But it's easy for many to think that the dominant two party system is the problem rather than a result of the constitution. We look for "quick fixes"

What came out of my personal foolishness was a graditute that I have a right to vote, a right to be involved, a right to fight for my beliefs. I vowed never to take those rights for granted again. I can fight for every single thing I believe in in the Democratic Party.

MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
23. Exactly right. Thank you for
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 08:50 PM
Aug 2015

understanding. It takes varying amount of time to get it. Some never do. Others simply refuse. Some things are what they are. None of us lives forever. None of us can control a nation of 300+ million. We all work with what we have, or we flounder in frustration.

BlueMTexpat

(15,374 posts)
26. Excellent post, Mineral Man. Thanks.
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 12:50 PM
Aug 2015

I truly wish that we had a different political system. Having studied and taught comparative political systems, I personally believe that a multi-party parliamentary system would work much better than the blatantly dysfunctional two-party presidential system that we have.

But change to a parliamentary system - which could favor the development of several political parties - would require a Constitutional Amendment, so it likely will never happen - certainly not in my lifetime. Even if, parties would likely have to form coalitions to govern.

So I choose to be in the Democratic Party - have been Dem since even earlier than you, LOL - and will support whichever candidate that Party chooses to represent us for the Presidency in 2016.

I also choose to support the Democratic Party at state and local levels. Whether I personally agree or disagree with the policies of the majority of Dems, I believe that supporting Dem policies is the ONLY way that the United States of America will remain united.

TBF

(32,111 posts)
27. I thought you were a republican who switched -
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 01:01 PM
Aug 2015

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2705446

No judgment on that, I'm hoping many Reagan dems will find their way home when they hear Bernie speak. Definitely agree with your analysis re big tent. Hopefully it becomes even bigger because I don't think this country can survive a Walker presidency.

MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
29. You thought wrong. I have never once voted for any Republican.
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 02:00 PM
Aug 2015

I have been campaigning for Democrats since 1960, when I was just 15 years old and carrying signs for JFK.

TBF

(32,111 posts)
34. Just from what I read in that excerpt -
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 05:05 PM
Aug 2015

you've been campaigning longer than I've been alive! I meant what I said about Reagan dems regardless. That was my generation. I started college in '84 as Reagan was being re-elected so part of the Gen X crowd. I am hoping some of them are waking up and realizing "trickle down" was a scam.

MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
44. Ronald Reagan was the Governor of California.
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 09:39 AM
Aug 2015

I lived in California. The things he did and said as Governor made it very clear to me that he should not have been elected as President. Sadly, he was elected. In his second term, his decreasing ability to make sense was a clue to his Alzheimer's, already becoming evident.

His election was an occasion for deep sadness, from my point of view. He was merely a figurehead, controlled by others. That people did not see that was alarming.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
28. yep you're right
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 01:45 PM
Aug 2015

when it comes to majority white rule and issues affecting POC, majority white rule always wins out...has for many generations even when the democrats were republicans. That's why the Democratic Party will never solve the problems of racial injustice and inequality in any presidential administration led by democrats. Period. You're right. So actually all POC should just sit this next one out and let the creepublicans take office and face the same thing, a lot worse granted, but the same as offered by the "big tent". Right?

MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
30. I said nothing of the sort.
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 02:02 PM
Aug 2015

You said that, not me. Perhaps you did not really read my original post, or maybe you have some other agenda. I don't know, but you are not speaking for me in any way.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
31. I was not speaking for you in any respect
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 02:37 PM
Aug 2015

no agenda, just my take on your treatise on the two party system. I read all your post and change is real slow in our system is one of your points I came away with. Every point of view is not welcome, especially if it concerns just a minority. Lip service will be given, slaps on the back given and business as usual, as has been for generations. NO!!! I am not speaking for you, I am speaking for me on this system you are explaining, for whatever reason. The concerns and point of view of POC have been in the "big tent" for generations and since it is a minority view, that minority view has never and will NEVER be given serious consideration by the majority people of my Party or the PTB that run and CONTROL the people of my party. That's my experience with the "big tent". No inference that I was speaking for you, lord knows that is a no no. I WAS SPEAKING FROM MY EXPERIENCE ONLY, IN DEALING WITH THE MAJORITY PEOPLE OF THIS TWO PARTY SYSTEM.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
32. Majority = tyranny
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 02:51 PM
Aug 2015

I'm sure if we waited for the majority to want things like equal voting rights, we'd still be waiting. And we actually are because the majority in some states is composed of idiots who vote for Republicans, who are bound and determined to send us back to the bad old days.

And Democrats, despite the platform voted on by members, never seem to want to act on it.

Incremental change is no change at all. And all points of views, especially those of "dirty hippies," are most certainly not welcome.

The system is rigged. It is rigged, not for the majority, but whoever has the most money. Money talks and is heard, much more than any of us. This is why people won't participate. BECAUSE THEY ARE NEVER HEARD, NO MATTER HOW MUCH THEY SHOUT.

MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
33. If people don't participate, they're guaranteed not to be heard.
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 03:04 PM
Aug 2015

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Do as you think best.

mikekohr

(2,312 posts)
35. Robert F Kennedy said, "You don't need to be smart to be successful in politics..........
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 06:19 PM
Aug 2015

but you do need to be able to count."


Mineral Man you are smart and you can count. Great post.

MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
42. I'm just passing along things that every active Democrat
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 09:34 AM
Aug 2015

already knows. Participation is the key to making a difference. That has always been true.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
50. Funny that your lengthy OP fails to mention that it was
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 07:14 PM
Aug 2015

The Third Party Populists who created the major changes - the end to child labor, the creation and support of the rise of Unions, the 40 hour work week, and on and on.

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