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H2O Man

(73,558 posts)
Sat Aug 1, 2015, 02:26 PM Aug 2015

-ism

Malcolm X used to ask his audience: what does a white racist call a black man with a PhD? The answer, of course, was a harsh term that conveyed racist hatred. For sometimes the Truth is stark, and can make open and honest discussions uncomfortable.

Half a century later, I find myself thinking of Malcolm when I read some of the OP/threads on DU:GD that attempt to discuss “racism” in a meaningful way. In the early and middle phases of his ministry in the Nation of Islam, Malcolm identified whites as “devils,” believing that white skin prevented them from having the capacity to love all of humanity. In his final years, of course, Malcolm identified the system that whites were raised in as the cause of racism.

“Systems,” as anyone who has had the sad misfortune of reading my nonsense on DU over the years knows, fascinate me. While my employment career was in the field of psychology -- the study of the individual -- I have a great interest in sociology -- or, the study of groups (“systems”). The tree versus the forest, so to speak.

“Racism,” by definition, is the attribution of a set of characteristics to all -- or almost all -- members of a race of people. It includes the belief that members of a given race have abilities or weaknesses, specific to their race, which make them intrinsically superior or inferior to other races. Related terms include such words as bigotry and nativism. Racism leads directly to stereotyping of groups and individuals, and pre-judging what qualities they have, or lack.

In the United States, racism has historically been defined in the context of white people’s opinions of, and interactions with, African Americans and Native Americans. White people, who have generally held the reins of economic and social power, frequently viewed non-white peoples as less than fully human. Thus, for example, in much of the 1800s, blacks were viewed by whites as “domestic animals,” who were exploited for labor, yet prevented by law from participation in white culture. Indians, on the other hand, were considered “wild animals; their lands, rather than their labor, was to be exploited, and the force of law used to introduce them to the “superior” white culture.

In the late 1800s and early-to-mid 1900s, the fields of psychology and sociology were highly influenced by what we could politely, yet accurately, call Euro-American chauvinism. Thus, certain disorders among white women were studied, in an attempt to determine why they were unhappy with being “kept in their proper place” …..with little if any regard to the social pathologies that sought to restrict their humanity. Likewise, educated white men attempted to answer such questions as: What do blacks really want? And what is wrong with those Indians? Quite often, such theories were based upon blacks and Indians in the clinical setting of a prison.

However, as time moved forward, blacks, Indians, and even white women would move well beyond the restrictive roles once assigned to them. They became doctors and lawyers, teachers and scientists. And psychologists and sociologists. By coincidence, perhaps, the influence of Euro-American chauvinism began to be challenged. Open and honest discussions became rather uncomfortable for some.

As progress was made in advancing society’s understanding of social pathologies, such as sexism and racism, certain words (or phrases) would come to take on specific meanings within the context of scholarly study. And, within that context, those definitions are correct. Yet, we have to understand and appreciate that those contexts are specific systems. Thus, the meanings applied within that system -- while correct -- are not necessarily the full, or only, correct definition.

Let’s consider an example. One of the ugliest aspects of a sexist society (re: system) is domestic abuse. And the majority, without question, of the cases of severe physical abuse in family systems is male against female. When I worked in human services, I was trained in what is known as the “Duluth Model,” which defines domestic abuse as exclusively male against female. And that’s fine, although it clearly excludes things such as domestic violence within lesbian couples.

Likewise, many social scientists define “racism” within the context of the US system, in which whites have the power to inflict damages to non-white peoples. Again, that is a good definition, and definitely has a few centuries of evidence to support it. Yet, the US is not the only system that we are part of. Indeed, we can think “larger,” in the context of globally -- and plenty of white racists despise non-white people around the planet, though they lack the power to damage them …..or we can look at a smaller example, such as any men’s or women’s prison in California, where the populations are primarily two or three non-white groups. Within such a system, there is racism; one could argue, of course, that it is still rich white folks who capitalize on that racism.

Racism, like sexism, is a pattern of thought. More, because people’s thinking tends to define their actions, racism and sexism poison human relationships, from the smallest of systems (the family) to the largest (global). Their potential for negative consequences -- especially violence -- increase when there is a power differential in play. This includes not only the ability to do harm, but the likelihood of consequences for inflicting that harm. The legal system, for example, has little ability to render justice, if the police, district attorney, and/or judge are racist or sexist. And our culture’s history with violence, from lynchings to domestic abuse, bears that out. Current events are further proof.

In order to get a healthy grip on the severe damage that these “-isms” do to our society, we are going to have a lot of those uncomfortable conversations. Because these pathologies are entrenched in all levels of society -- from family systems to the national system -- those conversations must likewise be held at every level, and become an active part of every system.

One of those systems is DU. It’s not a huge or tiny system, but even as a “medium-sized” system, we have numerous resources that can contribute to a meaningful discussion on the various “-isms” that pollute our larger culture. A lot of community members with a wide span of life experience and education. That translates into the potential for insights on “-isms” on every level of systems.

The only types of person who could inhibit such discussion would be those here simply to disrupt, and those who think they are right, and only they are right. Anyone and everyone else should be able to participate, add things of value, and be able to do so without engaging in the silly arguments we too often see here.

Peace,
H2O Man

35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
-ism (Original Post) H2O Man Aug 2015 OP
the problem is... antigop Aug 2015 #1
Oh, absolutely. H2O Man Aug 2015 #6
Good post. k&r n/t jaysunb Aug 2015 #2
Thank you. H2O Man Aug 2015 #11
I remember a DU'er saying, "may you have many experiences". canoeist52 Aug 2015 #3
Right. H2O Man Aug 2015 #12
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Aug 2015 #4
Thanks, Uncle Joe! H2O Man Aug 2015 #13
Except we so seldom have discussion here. LiberalAndProud Aug 2015 #5
Yep. I agree. H2O Man Aug 2015 #14
This is the most worthwhile OP I've read in many a day Hekate Aug 2015 #7
Thank you very much! H2O Man Aug 2015 #15
+1,000 malaise Aug 2015 #19
Thank you! H2O Man Aug 2015 #23
Recommended. mmonk Aug 2015 #8
Thanks! H2O Man Aug 2015 #16
What? ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #9
Thank you! H2O Man Aug 2015 #17
I love psychology ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #28
Excellent post! suffragette Aug 2015 #10
Thank you. H2O Man Aug 2015 #18
I appreciate your efforts to do so. suffragette Aug 2015 #29
Why is the "Duluth model" "fine"? hfojvt Aug 2015 #20
I'll attempt to H2O Man Aug 2015 #21
I thought I had a copy hfojvt Aug 2015 #35
A well thought out, well written post, H2O Man. Wounded Bear Aug 2015 #22
Thank you! H2O Man Aug 2015 #24
"which defines domestic abuse as exclusively male against female. And that’s fine" MisterP Aug 2015 #25
You swore! H2O Man Aug 2015 #26
ah, good (but its consequences and assumptions have hit REALLY close to home for our family) MisterP Aug 2015 #30
I hear you, H2O Man Aug 2015 #31
Kick. Agschmid Aug 2015 #27
Thank you. H2O Man Aug 2015 #33
K&R Solly Mack Aug 2015 #32
Thanks, Solly Mack! H2O Man Aug 2015 #34

H2O Man

(73,558 posts)
6. Oh, absolutely.
Sat Aug 1, 2015, 03:12 PM
Aug 2015

You are 100 % correct.

We can use "Black Lives Matter" as an example. Some people get it. They understand the issue and closely related issues. They understand timing ....the advantages of applying maximum pressure on a specific area of a clog in the pipes of social justice, to clear that clog for the benefit of all. Others, including sincere and decent people, have trouble understanding and accepting that "Black Lives Matter" in no one negates that all lives matter. And there are those who do understand -- at some level -- yet seek to abuse the situation to divide people.

It takes a lot of effort to have a conversation be meaningful in a positive way. But that is a better investment of energy than engaging in the meaningless, hostile nonsense that we witness both here, and in so many other systems around us.

canoeist52

(2,282 posts)
3. I remember a DU'er saying, "may you have many experiences".
Sat Aug 1, 2015, 02:43 PM
Aug 2015

This is what DU provides - or used to allow. The more eyes we view life from, the more egalitarian our views become.

Thanks for this.

H2O Man

(73,558 posts)
12. Right.
Sat Aug 1, 2015, 07:10 PM
Aug 2015

It made this community a much more fun, educational, and worthwhile place. There are, of course, still many good people, posting OP/threads of value. But these discussions are definitely become rare.

LiberalAndProud

(12,799 posts)
5. Except we so seldom have discussion here.
Sat Aug 1, 2015, 02:56 PM
Aug 2015

We have shouting matches. Opinions other than my own are only to be argued with or ignored (plunk), not considered.

H2O Man

(73,558 posts)
14. Yep. I agree.
Sat Aug 1, 2015, 07:15 PM
Aug 2015

Too often people here view every issue in terms of "right versus wrong." Or overlook the fact that frequently, there is more than one right way to view a given situation. Clearly, the presidential primary seasons are rough times on DU. And it seems to spill over, into other areas.

I am not only pointing fingers at others. I recognize that, from time to time, I am self-righteous and pig-headed. But I do try to make an effort to be civil.

Hekate

(90,708 posts)
7. This is the most worthwhile OP I've read in many a day
Sat Aug 1, 2015, 03:24 PM
Aug 2015

I wish (I've kind of given up hoping) that many here would read it and absorb it.

H2O Man

(73,558 posts)
15. Thank you very much!
Sat Aug 1, 2015, 07:17 PM
Aug 2015

Your response certainly makes this old man happy. I hope that my contributions to the conversations on this forum are of some value. So what you said means a lot to me. Again, thanks!

H2O Man

(73,558 posts)
17. Thank you!
Sat Aug 1, 2015, 08:39 PM
Aug 2015

"Personality is the skin that separates us from the outside world."
-- Michael H. Stone, M.D.; Personality-Disordered Patients: Treatable and Untreatable; American Psychiatric Publishing; 2006; page vii.

ismnotwasm

(41,986 posts)
28. I love psychology
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 12:00 AM
Aug 2015

I am a nurse--and work in solid organ transplant, which is, among other things, an ethical knife's edge much of the time. In my field our own sense of the ethical has to develop--it's forced to, because of the many challenges. We have classes in it, continuing education courses. It can be very uncomfortable.

I think to truly confront the isms in ourselves as well as society it requires the same ethical work out--albeit from a different perspective, and as you noted facing uncomfortable truths, uncomfortable situations and think them through from those angles perhaps we hadn't considered or might even disagree with. Tough to do, gets easier with practice.

H2O Man

(73,558 posts)
18. Thank you.
Sat Aug 1, 2015, 08:40 PM
Aug 2015

Perhaps I delude myself, in thinking that I might assist in elevating the tone -- and quality -- of some discussion here. (smile) But I will keep trying.

suffragette

(12,232 posts)
29. I appreciate your efforts to do so.
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 02:11 AM
Aug 2015

Thoughtful OPs don't seem to get the same traction here that they once did.
Still well worth reading when they are posted, though.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
20. Why is the "Duluth model" "fine"?
Sat Aug 1, 2015, 08:53 PM
Aug 2015

Domestic abuse is only male against female?

How is that NOT a complete double standard?

And it's fine for many social scientists to have the same double standard on any number of other issues?

And Malcolm X just sounds like a huge bigot, making sweeping statements about white people, but then dialing back. All white people are just evil because they are brought up that way.

H2O Man

(73,558 posts)
21. I'll attempt to
Sat Aug 1, 2015, 08:58 PM
Aug 2015

answer your two general questions, but in reverse order.

Malcolm X certainly had an anti-white period. More important, in my opinion, is who he became by the last few years of his life.

Carl Sagan called "The Autobiography of Malcolm X" the most important book published in the United States. I tend to agree with him on that.

The Duluth Model is good for the study and treatment of a specific type of domestic abuse/violence. While I didn't subscribe to it alone, I did make use of parts of it.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
35. I thought I had a copy
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 12:31 PM
Aug 2015

amazingly enough I was even able to locate it within a minute. I will put it on my reading list, but the shipment of books I just ordered might prove too large a temptation.

Volunteering for a graveyard shift at the homeless shelter gives me more time to read.

My concern is the policy implications of seeing the world through the Duluth model, as if it is NOT just ONE way to solve ONE set of problems, but an actual basis for how the world works.

Wounded Bear

(58,662 posts)
22. A well thought out, well written post, H2O Man.
Sat Aug 1, 2015, 09:02 PM
Aug 2015

It's too easy to get lost in the isms, which all too often are about emotional responses rather than about reason.

Wish we could all take this one to heart. Good wisdom.

H2O Man

(73,558 posts)
24. Thank you!
Sat Aug 1, 2015, 09:07 PM
Aug 2015

I try to share some models from psychology and sociology here. I find them helpful in organizing information on a variety of topics .....quite often, the models don't change the things you know, but rather, help me organize them in my mind. I hope they are of value to others, too.

And I agree with you about -isms and emotions. The synergy from the two adds up quickly.

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
25. "which defines domestic abuse as exclusively male against female. And that’s fine"
Sat Aug 1, 2015, 10:16 PM
Aug 2015

no it is FUCKING not

H2O Man

(73,558 posts)
26. You swore!
Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:11 PM
Aug 2015

I'm telling!

Back to reality ....Clearly, the Duluth Model fits one sub-type of domestic violence -- male against female; in that context, it is fine.

In other contexts -- including but not limited to co-battering, female against male, lesbian, gay, child abuse, ans elderly abuse -- it doesn't fit. Parts of the model may be able to be applied, but clearly not all.

H2O Man

(73,558 posts)
31. I hear you,
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 12:20 PM
Aug 2015

and appreciate your message.

I took the three-day Duluth Model training at a time when I co-facilitated a domestic violence group at the mental health clinic. That group had people referred by the court. It included some very violent men and women.

When efforts are made to create rigid definitions -- really, of any human behavior -- they tend to fit a smaller group that the whole. Yet those rigid definitions break under pressure. For example, a few other people in the group attempted to discuss male victims of domestic violence, the lead presenter of the DM always cut them off. Hence, on the third day, I described a female victim; the lead presenter noted it was a "classic" case of domestic violence, and began addressing the consequences the male needed to face. At that point, I noted the perpetrator was female, as it was a lesbian couple.

Frequently, at least in my experience, group therapy for violent spouses/SOs are divided between male and female. And without question, more males are referred. But I was lucky to work with a young psychologist, and she believed that there were more benefits from having male and female abusers in a group.

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