The absolute worst advice we give to Americans struggling to pay rent

[ashling]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/the-absolute-worst-advice-we-give-to-americans-struggling-to-pay-rent/ar-AAdlWLl

And yet, when I write about poverty and debt on the Internet, there’s always someone—in the comments, on Twitter, or even in person—who will suggest that the issue isn’t so much a system that makes it hard to get ahead, but rather, the result of poor decision-making. The simplest solution, they will propose, is that people who are in financial turmoil “just move somewhere cheaper.”
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That is terrible advice.
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The costs of moving are many: renting a truck or even just owning a car with with to move your things, possibly putting your things in storage, paying for a background check, a deposit, and a first and a last month’s rent just to get in the door.

...

There are a lot of ways to potentially solve the crises of spiking rents, poverty, and homelessness. But telling every person who is struggling financially to up and leave town is not one of them.

[eShirl]

1. And, as my dad once said, "Three moves is like a fire."

Between all the stuff that, for whatever reason, never makes it with you to the next house, or makes it there but much worse for wear.

[mnhtnbb]

21. I beg to differ with your dad, having moved from Santa Monica to St. Joseph, Mo, to Lincoln, NE

and then to Chapel Hill, NC over the course of 12 years I can tell you when the house burned down
in 2007 here in Chapel Hill--well, everything went up in flames. Everything. I'll take three moves
over a house fire any day...and, after the fire, we did: to a rental, to a house we bought/remodeled,
and finally to the house we rebuilt in 2011 on the vacant lot.

[kacekwl]

2. This is just another

reason poor people remain poor. I speak from experience.

[2naSalit]

22. +1

[phantom power]

3. Classic conservative "solution" that combines things conservatives love.

1) It is a solution directly from the conservative religion that market forces are the solution to everything. In their cargo cult, people can drive rent prices down by "voting with their feet" and moving.

2) It actually keeps poor people poor. Which for conservatives is a feature, not a bug.

[raccoon]

32. Conservatives love to come up with cheap, simple solutions for other people.

Problem is, much of the time, these "solutions" don't work.

[niyad]

4. not to mention that there may NOT Be a "cheaper place to move", some place decent.

[whathehell]

26. Exactly...I've been checking rents in the Chicago and Chicago suburban

areas where I live and I'm AMAZED at how high the rents have gone

in what was once (relative to either Coast) a moderately

priced housing market.

[magical thyme]

28. what? you deadbeats expect somebody to *pay* you to live free in a cardboard box under the bridge?

of course there's always someplace cheaper to move to.

for the impaired...

[LynneSin]

5. And people wondered why I moved only 3 times in the past 30 years since I graduated college

I knew people who would move every 2-3 years because they didn't like like their apartment or they could find rent cheaper somewhere or better neighborhood or something like that.

I lived in one apartment for 13 years. It was about 400 sq yards. As small as it was the most I ever paid in rent was $425 a month and it was for the most part a safe neighborhood except the one year when the new owners took over and try to manage it themselves (they almost turned it into a flop house and I almost moved out but the long term residents complained and they got better management).

Next apartment was 7 years. The neighborhood could have been better but it had all the features I wanted and I never had any problem with the neighbors whatsoever even if I was out late with my friends drinking. (I never had loud parties in my apartment nor did I have loud neighbors).

I have a house now, I will probalby not buy another house until I retire and move some place when I retire.

I'm not fussy with homes.

[Thor_MN]

18. 400 square yards is more than twice the size of my 4 bedroom house.

3600 square feet for $425 is a steal...

[LynneSin]

34. I meant feet

[AZ Progressive]

6. Giving bad advice is an American pastime

Many people love to act like they are an expert in things and don't take responsibility when they give bad advice. Some of the worst are the ones that make very difficult things sound so easy and simple, which is tantamount to deception.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

7. AKA: Move back to the ghetto where you belong.

[AwakeAtLast]

37. Nail on head.

You hit it!

[Omaha Steve]

8. DUer Bob (colescountydem) needs help paying his rent

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027011754

[Igel]

9. It's advice.

It can be good, it can be bad.

My wife and I moved to find work. We went into debt to move. But we had employment where we were going. A year later we were in better shape than before the move. Had we stayed, it's unlikely we'd have gotten better work.

Moreover, the employment in our new town was career-building. It was a step towards a better job elsewhere. Then, a few years later, we moved for work a second time. In both cases, we moved for more.

At the same time, if you're a burger flipper it's likely burger flipping is no better elsewhere. Then the choices are moving to where things are a bit cheaper or transportation is easier. That might be a psychological trauma--you might be giving up something, which is hard.

Note that one of the problems with a lot of poor communities that affects their voting and their kids' education is that on the whole they are more transient populations than middle and upper-middle class communities. That means they have to update their voter registration more often (it also means that when obsolete voter registrations are purged they're more likely to be names of poor people). Often they don't re-register in time for the election or overlook it. They move their kids from school to school more often. But at least anecdotally, from what I've seen, it's the middle and upper-middle class populations that are more likely to move longer distances and who benefit from such moves and the lower-class populations tend to move within cities.

[GeorgeGist]

41. wooooooooooosh

[JackInGreen]

10. Let me see....

My rent is 1300....my landlord, the leach, is going to raise it to 1500 next april.
Most other 2 bedrooms anywhere in this block of counties have similar prices with the requirement that on applying I'm required to make 2.5x the rent, +pay first and last month + deposit.

Rent: $1300
Moving in cost: $4000/$4500
Transport: $500 (truck, gas, time)

Im having a hard time paying the monthly cost as it stands, I sure as tits can't afford moving into another apartment.
IF I pass the credit check. (Cancer will make your credit crap).

It's ab-goddamned-surd.

[moonandsixpence.]

11. It really depends on the situation.

I do think that sometimes people in such a situation narrow their scope of possibility--it happened to me! San Francisco and NYC ARE crazy expensive! If a person can moved someplace nearby, they may be able to cut their rent in a third or even half. And it may require just moving with whatever you can carry. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to save yourself for the long run.

My larger point is that we cannot wait until other people decide to lower prices. That is unrealistic! It would be great to have it happen ASAP but in the meantime, a person might be able to save hundreds of dollars a month.

[hfojvt]

33. welcome to DU

and yes, I agree. Moving is NOT the worst idea in the world. I've done it many times. Some places seem like they are too expensive to live, other places don't really have jobs. That's why I moved from my home town. That's why I left the little town where I lived for about ten years, and why I left the next place I moved to as well. I also looked for an affordable place to live before I moved TO a location.

[moonandsixpence.]

38. I am one of those people who hates to move, though.

And I understand the concept of learned helplessness. I just don't understand the point of these types of articles. How do they do anything other than encourage people to stay mired in their belief of lack of options? Waiting around for real estate tycoons to decide to lower their rents or for the government to get around to doing something about it seems rather foolish in light of the loss of money spent making other people rich.

[Orrex]

12. I've seen exactly that advice put forth on DU, in fact.

In the several decades that I've been aware of the subject, I have never once heard any financial advice that didn't boil down to "simply have more disposable income," with the implicit message being that the impoverished victim of the economy is chiefly responsible for his or her hardship.

[Gormy Cuss]

36. ^^^This^^^

A lot of decisions are easier when you have a financial cushion (like the recommended 6 months rent in the bank.) People who are unemployed or underemployed with no cash assets just don't have the luxury to use such advice.

[sufrommich]

13. The odds are that if real estate or rent is cheaper,it's because the

area can't support high rent or real estate. Mostly it's areas that lack jobs and the populations that follow good prospects for jobs.

Move where the cost of living is cheap is great advice for retired people though.

[Liberal Veteran]

25. Pretty much what I was going to say. Cheap rent is great, but there is usually a reason...

...why the rent is so cheap.

[jalan48]

14. I think this is why we have shanty towns, especially in third world countries.

This is somewhat akin to, "Let them eat cake".

[Eleanors38]

19. If you could beam-up Cabrini-Green, I bet some cities would take it...

I think ANY old building local government has or can acquire -- de-commissioned plant, old school, out-of-code apartments, supermarket, mall -- should be retro-fitted for cheap housing. The situation in Austin is absurd.

I recommend hiring apprenticing architects (who often do their "tours of duties" designing mobile home floorplans) to do the drawings.

[jalan48]

23. I agree. We need to address this issue instead of blaming the victims.

Part of the problem is that if our government decides to address the issue it's basically saying our current economic system doesn't work in this regard. The Republican's have to believe it's the laziness (insert other words as appropriate) that is causing the problem. Your idea is good for another reason. Engaging people in the problem solving process creates a sense of hope and idealism in the community. Instead of simply being passive consumers, humans of all income levels can become active participants in making their community a better place to live. That is, they can go from being those poor, lazy folks Republican's despise to contributing members of their communities. Right now they are in a Catch 22.

[Android3.14]

15. Moving is the last of many strategies

It's not terrible advice if you have tried everything else.

[Eleanors38]

16. Even the UMC folks Always put moving costs in the job-change bargain. Stupid.

[jomin41]

17. I've been in my current home for almost 30 years but,

previous to that I moved several times and the process is always a major pain BUT also liberating. Getting rid of all the accumulated junk that smothers your life. The move itself can be a life-changer. Being forced to make put-off decisions clears the decks. But moving just to try to save a buck, is poor advice from someone who probably never knew poverty, or has "forgotten".

[alarimer]

20. As with anything, it depends.

Moving makes sense if you have secured a better job at the new location. It makes sense if your rent goes up too much.

But yeah, as blanket advice, it leaves something to be desired. At the same time, though, to remain in an area with few jobs or poor prospects, when you can find opportunity elsewhere, is foolish. In some fields, the only way to advance is to relocate.

The expenses can vary. Uhauls are more expensive for one-way moves than for in-town moves. And the amount you pay for deposits can vary greatly. I have paid anything from $0 to a full month's rent. Generally speaking, that largely depends on occupancy rates. I've had good luck in towns with lots of rental properties, desperate to raise occupancy rates. They often offer incentives for move-in costs, such as lower rents or a free month's rent or no security deposit. Maybe it's because I have a really good track record (always give notice, never leave any place damaged) that I get a good deal everywhere I go. So others might not be so lucky. And of course, since the crash, occupancy rates have risen so there is less incentive for them to offer deals because more people have to rent. My experience is certainly not many people's experience. Most people have landlord or rental horror stories.

And of course, the cheaper a place is, the more likely it is to be run by a slumlord, who will rip you off. No question about it that substandard rental housing is a real issue. When I was really strapped for cash, I lived in some shitty places. Old and deteriorating because they refused to put money into fixing it.

Packing up and moving is never that simple. It is easier for me because I have done it my whole life. I have no kids and not a lot of stuff. I have no ties anywhere and no desire to form them. That alone helps. It is still complicated, logistically.

Most people are also unaware that you can deduct moving expenses from your taxes if it is a relocation for work. That can help.

[jtuck004]

24. Uh, that's not advice. They don't want you there, and are saying "go away - we don't

want you here if you are poor".

How's that on the ol' ego?

[yuiyoshida]

27. Personal story

While living in Santa Barbara I had put many of my things in Storage with the idea that I would always have it. Unfortunately I lost my job. By the time I had a source of income, everything I owned had been auctioned off to pay for the storage. My high school year book, was there along with some things I will never ever see again. I vowed never to ever do that again.

[DirkGently]

29. KNR. n/t

[Cleita]

30. Usually, there isn't any place cheaper unless you were living in a palace to begin with.

Having been a renter all my live, I know this to be true. When I was living in Santa Monica in the late seventies. Thanks to the passage of the Jarvis Amendment speculators were moving in from all over the world snatching up real estate including rental units. Along with that boom, rents were escalating to double sometimes triple what they had been or they were being converted into condos. People were being thrown into the streets who could not afford to do this. So, we the people, hit the streets with petitions and we brought in rent control. It was the only thing that worked.

It did have it's down side. People never moved because they would lose their rent controlled apartment. I stayed in mine for fifteen years. Landlords stopped repairing things so we ended up doing repairs and yard work ourselves. But it was better than having to work two jobs just to have a place to live.

It seems we need laws for our living spaces so that everyone has a place to live instead of allowing the free market to determine who gets a roof over their head and who doesn't. Real estate tycoons, like Donald Trump, get rich on squeezing the poor for every drop of blood money they can get. Most can be prosperous if not billionaire rich with less rent money than they try to get.

[Capt. Obvious]

31. Has no one made this yet?

[Big Vincenz]

35. Who is that?

[bvar22]

39. Due to my job, I have moved over 20 times to all parts of the country in my 35 year working career.

I was unmarried at the time, and I could pack up and move in about 30 minutes.
I knew just what to bring, and what to leave behind.
The more you do it. the easier it becomes.
AT one time, I could fit all my cherished possessions in an MGB,
and move on.

Now, I am retired, and live on my own piece of property in the woods of Arkansas, growing veggies, fruit, chickens, and honey bees.
I love it here, and have never felt"rooted" to any place before this.
I will die here, and have my ashes spread here.

[freshwest]

40. This is a problem shoved on the backs of those least able to handle it:

There is also the issue of access. Poorer areas (i.e., those where lower-income folks might move to escape excessive rent) also tend to have worse access to medical care and social services. They often offer fewer resources and more barriers for care, housing, and work for those who have disabilities. And as conservative lawmakers block access to abortion providers and other women’s health care resources on a state level, women are left with fewer options about where they can move and still get care.

This is definitely the case where I live but of course I am not alone. The rent on my studio is going up at the rate of over a hundred a month. That's a zero bedroom apartment, too. And all the places are similar in price range. So I'm being priced out.

Go to look for senior and / or disabled housing?

Get on a waiting list that is years long, and then if you get in, you still have to pay market price until a person dies there, so why even bother?

It's a joke. They don't announce when the Section 8 vouchers are available, it's like a lottery, but even harder to get into. No waiting list, first come and first serve - if you look at the website everyday. But it would allow you to stay where you are.

Go look at public housing?

Another joke in process. You can be $50 over the requirement and you won't get in, even if you wanted to give them the $50 to save hundreds. For fun stuff. Like medical insurane, non-insured medical care, food and any form of transportation. By they way, if you are not Medicaid eligible, forget that, taxi script, disabled vans, etc.

They act as if disabled or elderly people have the stamina and wherewithall to ride the bus and walk blocks between transfer points, stand in lines without passing out, be gone for hours when they are essentially house bound as it is, and negotiate with the paperwork when they are in so much pain they would end up as puddle of jello on the floor.

And then, you will be miles away from anyone you know, social services, cheaper stores, and lose their help. Because they can't travel all over God's Creation to help you out.

It's all a freaking joke. And part of it is a very old problem, and those without the issue don't vote or don't care. Forgetaboutit. There is a lot of competition for housing, remarkably, the services are in the higher income areas.

I see the article identifies part of the problem, but has no solution. Public housing is so tight on the requirements it only fits a certain demographic. My tiny pension will come in next year. I was informed that if I managed to get into public housing this year, I would be kicked out next year.

It's not going to get beter. Hard choices will have to be made by a lot of people, until you are bled of every last dime and have no money to go anywhere, do anything. I don't feel sorry for myself, if it comes off that way.

I do find it had to do with choices and although I did my best, circumstance beyond my control - absolutely - got me into this mess. If I'd walked off in a heartless manner, I could be better off. But I couldn't have slept at night. Real people with real problems that I love and am obligated to care about.

And now I can't sleep at night wondering when the next shoe is going to drop and it's going to be the last one that I can live under.

Whatever. This country has no respect for people. Or anything much, so I must have chose wrong along the way somewhere.

[Fla_Democrat]

42. Ok, so what is the advice to give?

I only see three possible directions to lead the conversation, and I am sure none of them will make for a pleasant dialogue, here.

So, friend, living in a place, having trouble making his/her payment. Always runs a bit late, things are tight, what advice should I give to my friend, if the topic comes up?

Not theory, not what should be, but what is...