The Lafayette shooting was a hate crime directed at women.

[TDale313]

The shooter was a man with well-known anti-women and anti-feminist views. The choice of this film- both due to content, creator/actress and likely makeup of the audience- make it rather clear who/what his target was when added to his known views- young modern women who clearly don't know their place. This was an angry man lashing out at women and feminists.

[HereSince1628]

1. Interesting...I said to the SO hours ago that this seem to be gener biased....

[Novara]

2. Yep. see: http://www.democraticunderground.com/11387536

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11387536

[Liberal_in_LA]

3. you may be right

[pnwmom]

4. What movie was it?

[TDale313]

5. Trainwreck

[awoke_in_2003]

44. I don't go to the movies often

What is the jist of Trainwreck?

[Fawke Em]

45. It's an Amy Schumer movie.

She's, apparently, America's comedianne-du-jour.

She's OK, but I find her a bit racist and she relies on sex humor too much (some of it's funny, but she goes overboard on it, so it gets boring after awhile).

[awoke_in_2003]

47. Thanks. nt

[beam me up scottie]

6. I had a feeling he picked this movie for a reason.

I said as much to Mr bmus this morning.

Let's call it what it is, a hate crime.

[malaise]

7. Can you or anyone else tell me whether he shot only

women? The two persons killed are female.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Due to privacy laws

we don't know

We know they range in age from pre teen to 60s.

[Fawke Em]

46. Privacy laws?

I used to cover crime as a newspaper reporter. Unless the victim is a juvenile, the names of crime victims are open records.

If the authorities are telling you they can't release the names based on privacy laws, I'd challenge that.

I do realize HIPAA has come along since I left reporting (and I work as a content manager for an IT security and compliance company, now, so I know all about HIPAA), but the records you're wanting aren't from the hospital, they're from the police department.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. HIPAA has become that much of a pain, yes

And I am not covering that story, on the other side of the country.

Local PD will release accident victim data. Shootings and medical calls, unless it is a well known person, they drag feet. Which is odd.

[TDale313]

22. Don't know. Names haven't been released.

Although even if a man/men were shot, I would say it's still possible the act was motivated by hate for women and feminists. If Dylann Roof had found and shot a white person at the church in addition to the African Americans he did kill, but everything else was the same, it would still be a hate crime.

[leftieNanner]

27. Yes, two young women

Early 30s, I think.

[Warpy]

8. Women are left out of all hate crimes legislation

so you can't possibly charge anyone with a hate crime against us.

Too many powerful men want to continue to beat their wives.

[TDale313]

10. True,

but I think it's still worth talking about in those terms. I feel this (and many crimes against women) fit that description, even if the law doesn't recognize it/them as such.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Not quite

Existing federal law authorizes involvement in federal crimes in which the defendant "intentionally selects a victim, or in the case of a property crime, the property that is the object of the crime, because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, gender, disability, or sexual orientation of any person."62 In addition, federal investigators and prosecutors have authority to be involved in a limited range of nonfederal hate crimes (some cases in which the victim was targeted because of race, color, religion, or national origin) but not violent crimes motivated by the victim's gender. The pending LLEHCPA would fill this gap in current law and would also require the FBI to collect statistics on gender-motivated crimes from police departments across the country under the Hate Crime Statistics Act of 1990. These changes are crucial for women who might otherwise not be afforded relief by the criminal justice system.

http://www.civilrights.org/publications/hatecrimes/women.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/

The problem is that most DAs are not too fast in charging. But at least at the FEDERAL LEVEL laws do exist. I am listening to a non existent small brush fire locally, so really researching my state or yours will be up to us. I will do that for mine once they start getting some containment on that non existent beast.

[TDale313]

14. in California (my state and yours)

It looks like yes, hate crimes legislation does include sex/gender

https://oag.ca.gov/civil/htm/laws

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. I think it is important that women become aware of this

I did not know this, until I heard a few lawyers discussing that at court. We were there for something else.

And since you are in Cali, we have a nice little cozy fire at Palomar Mt right now. As far as I can tell, zero containment and 75- 100 acres in really steep terrain. One of those times I wish I had access to a chopper. Getting there by ground... ain't gonna happen.

[TDale313]

20. very important to know.

I'll admit, I had to look it up. Glad to know the law is there, if not always used. I also think it's good to talk about, cause I think even if the law is there, when people think hate crimes they don't always include crimes against women.

Thanks for the info on the fire, too. I'm up north, but this is gonna be a terrible fire season I fear.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Yeah, part of the awarenness means

we can talk to prosecutors, in case we find ourselves there. Who knows, we might end up educating them.

Though that might be an interesting question to my DA. I know there are very few hate crimes prosecuted, but ask about attacks due to gender might be interesting.

I will have to put that into a story to write.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

32. Doesn't matter if the crimes are never interpreted that way.

Gender is included in the written law, but it seems that the perception of hate is itself the problem. As if any sexualization of a crime against women disqualifies it as hate crime, in the minds of too many people. (And of course, just the fact of female victim(s), automatically links any individual crime to sex, in the publik mind. Automatically.)

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. The first step is awareness

the second is education. The third is putting pressure on DAs to do this, aka charge.

Finally hate crimes are very difficult to prove, it does not matter if you are a woman, a minority, or any of the rest of the categories.

And that is partly the quirks of US Law, and having to prove somebody is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

But to say the laws are not there is inaccurate. And that was my point. This is that education... an important step always.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

35. Yes, true. Education is necessary to change attitude.

I think the innerwebz give women a voice that we've never had before. Before this -- micro-publishing -- was available, women's experiences pretty much stayed isolated with the individual women. Behind closed doors.

Not much chance of education that way.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Well I wonder if my DA (she is a woman and married to her significant other)

even knows these are in the books?

So it might be a good idea for people to ahem... politely ask.

This is now in my list of articles to write... tomorrow though I know I will be spending the day in nature, chasing fire trucks... gathering news about our spiffy fire at Mt Palomar.

[CountAllVotes]

52. +1,000

No kidding Warpy, no kidding!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

59. ^....yep

And monitor their daughters.

While planning their "extra curricular activities" in the Dominican republic. Or the Appalachian trail.

Sex.

[shenmue]

9. Yep

[Brickbat]

12. Yep.

But no one will talk about it because #notallmen.

[SolutionisSolidarity]

15. It appears so.

He picked a movie marked to women then methodically picked off women out of the crowd. At least he's gone now.

[Starry Messenger]

16. Getting this country to have that conversation will be a tremendous undertaking.

Even progressives see the issues that affect women as "wedge issues."

[freshwest]

23. Yes. n/t

[TDale313]

24. yes, absolutely true.

[Recursion]

26. If Collier Township and UC Santa Barbara didn't do it ...

Last edited Sat Jul 25, 2015, 01:39 AM - Edit history (1)

... then I'm pessimistic that anything will.

[Starry Messenger]

30. Plenty of men discussed Collier Township here.

Women who said it was a bigoted hate killing were shouted down. I think you mean UC Santa Barbara, and ditto, yes.

We need male allies out in front saying that anti-feminism and gender-based violence is bigotry and not just that we had it coming for mouthing off, withholding sex, taking the jobs, or whateverthefuck.

[Recursion]

34. Thanks, sorry

SoCal geography is largely opaque to me

[BlancheSplanchnik]

29. "Wedge" being a euphemism for

Doesn't Affect Us Dudes.

[starroute]

18. Who else remembers the École Polytechnique Massacre?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cole_Polytechnique_massacre

The École Polytechnique Massacre, also known as the Montreal Massacre, occurred on December 6, 1989, at the École Polytechnique in Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

Twenty-five-year-old Marc Lépine, armed with a Mini-14 rifle and a hunting knife, shot 28 people, killing 14 women, before committing suicide. He began his attack by entering a classroom at the university, where he separated the male and female students. After claiming that he was "fighting feminism" and calling the women "a bunch of feminists," he shot all nine women in the room, killing six. He then moved through corridors, the cafeteria, and another classroom, specifically targeting women to shoot. Overall, he killed fourteen women and injured ten other women and four men in just under 20 minutes before turning the gun on himself. His suicide note claimed political motives and blamed feminists for ruining his life. The note included a list of 19 Quebec women whom Lépine considered to be feminists and apparently wished to kill. Since the attack, Canadians have debated various interpretations of the events, their significance, and Lépine's motives. Many feminist groups and public officials have characterized the massacre as an anti-feminist attack that is representative of wider societal violence against women. Consequently, the anniversary of the massacre has since been commemorated as the National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence Against Women.

[REP]

19. I do

And like that, this too will be made into anything but a hate crime against women.

[Recursion]

25. Or Collier Township (nt)

[BlancheSplanchnik]

31. Yep I remember that too.

Ya see, crimes against women CAN'T be hate. Women make us feel tingly in our pants. That means...sex....and guys that have issues with women, that's never hate. We just get very very angry when...they...don't do what we want...or when life doesn't go out way. Or they want our money. Or take our jobs. Or sex. Or talk back to us. Or get in our face. Or sex. Or make us mad. Or threatened. Or sex.

That's never hate, never cultural, never anything That Men As A General Class do. Just lone wolves. Who are just red-blooded men. It's biology. Hard-wired. Some of those guys just can't control it, but it's just them. Who can blame a guy for appreciating beauty? Women do that to us. Sex.

[smirkymonkey]

37. +1000

[BlancheSplanchnik]

51. I know, right?

I don't always go, "I totally deserve that applause",


But when I do, it's cuz I deserved it. LoL!

[smirkymonkey]

56. Hey, I have only been giving applause and not

commenting because my computer is shot and the + key is the only one that is working. However. I am pissed off enough to log on with my iPhone and I am in a big hurry to get a chrome book asap because we need more voices of reason on this board. Thanks so much for your great posts! They always inspire me! 😊

[Nay]

61. Jeez, Blanche, that's just fuckin' perfect. It encapsulates the queasy feeling all women

get when they realize that the man in front of them likes them and hates them at the same time. The MRA types. The men who are so attracted (but then repulsed) by women that they get weird complexes and act so strangely. We are NEVER just people to these types. NEVER.

[raccoon]

38. I remember. I thought about that massacre too. nt

[TDale313]

28. Kick

[riderinthestorm]

39. + 10000. Agreed. I've said this already on DU several times

And if this had been a massacre of African Americans this place would have exploded.

Violence against women?

Yawn

[Igel]

40. Last I heard people were still looking.

If it was a movie mostly attended by women, perhaps he chose it for that reason. (Seems unlikely given his profile that he would know that much about it.) On the other hand, if it was a movie mostly attended by women, odds are any two victims would be women.

As the SPLC pointed out, he was an extremist for every measure that the SPLC tracks. That's women. That's race. That's political views. That's immigration. That's lots of other things.

He was also violent. And had a documented history of mental illness.

Knowing the sexes of the other 9 victims would help resolve this. But only if we also know the sex distribution in the theater. If he didn't know Trainwreck was watched mostly by women, then that choice was pretty random. If the audience was all women, then the fact that only women were killed (and/or wounded) is also random.

Either way, suspicions are fine. We have them all the time, even if a lot of people can't move past them when the facts lead them that way. Drawing a definite conclusion is, at this point, a fallacy: Two women died, we have to assume they were the target. Why do we assume they were the target? Because it was two women who died. It's post-hocky horse hockey, at least for now. And possibly forever, if not for the wonders of confirmation bias.

[Nay]

63. IMHO, he got to choose his first victims, the two women sitting in front of him. That's

the most important takeaway. Then, of course, he would have to shoot anyone who jumped up and started responding, and those people could be of any sex, race, age, etc.

So to me he chose the first people he shot.

[sub.theory]

41. Evidence is suggesting this

Based on what we know so far, you may be right. Pathetic. Of course it will all be blamed on mental illness and not a loathsome ideology.

[Paladin]

42. Agreed. (nt)

[oberliner]

43. You have no idea what you are talking about

Both men and women were shot and injured in the attack.

[bettyellen]

50. You could say the same about the Ecole Polytechnique attack....

But that was clearly a hate crime against women. Some men just happened to get in the way.

[TDale313]

54. Exactly.

Honestly, I haven't heard the identity of the other shooting victims, but the shooter could still have been motivated by his hatred for women (which I suspect based on his known anti-women, anti-feminist views and his choosing this movie) and not have hesitated to shoot some of the men who were also there.

[B2G]

57. By that standard, all murders are hate crimes. nt

[bettyellen]

62. Maybe look up what hate crimes actually are before posting?

[itsrobert]

49. Many people must have me on HIDE

Because I posted something similar hours earlier with very little feedback.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027006916

[ismnotwasm]

53. Yes it was

And officials "searching for a motive" are full of shit

CP from HOF

Angry misogynist murders women at showing of film by feminist comedian; police worry “we may not find a motive.”

Police in Lafayette, Louisiana are evidently struggling to understand why the outspokenly misogynistic, racist and anti-Semitic John Russell “Rusty” Houser murdered two women and wounded 9 other moviegoers at a showing of “Trainwreck,” a film written by and starring Amy Schumer, a feminist comedian with a Jewish father, known for joking frankly about sex.

Col. Michael D. Edmonson, superintendent of the Louisiana State Police, wondered aloud about Houser’s motives at a press conference:

Why did he come here? Why did he do that? … We may not find a motive.

It seems to me that Houser’s likely motive is staring them in the face.

Because it turns out that Houser was pretty well-known, at least to regular viewers of one local TV talk show in Columbus, GA, as an angry right-wing fanatic who hated women. As one former host of the show recalled,

He was anti-abortion. … Rusty had an issue with feminine rights. He was opposed to women having a say in anything.

Houser evidently appeared on the live show dozens of times as a “gadfly” whose appearances “would generate calls.”

When Houser’s career as a loudmouthed crank on local TV apparently came to an end years ago, he moved to another medium, leaving a long trail of hateful comments on assorted websites, many of them openly praising Hitler and talking ominously about the future of what he saw as a deeply “immoral” culture.”

http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2015/07/24/angry-misogynist-murders-women-at-showing-of-film-by-feminist-comedian-police-worry-we-may-not-find-a-motive/

[TDale313]

55. I saw that.

Sigh.

[ismnotwasm]

58. I thought it was put together well

I hardly ever post OP's in GD and I want to thank you for this one

[TDale313]

60. Thanks.

I don't post a lot, especially new threads, but I thought this was important to talk about.