Trayvon Martin--Another shrinking giant

[dpibel]

As the story has developed, Trayvon Martin has grown by leaps and bounds. I believe lately he's been 6'2" or 6'3" and towered over poor George Zimmerman.

Math quiz: How many feet and inches is 71"?

How bulky and gigantically threatening is 158 lbs.?

Because that's what the coroner's report says were the height and weight of Trayvon Martin.

(For the math impaired, the answer is 5'11", which towers over the reported height of George Zimmerman by, I believe, two inches.)

So tell me again how Zimmerman was rightly terrified of this towering manchild...

Just an interesting fact for all the people who have been shrinking Zimmerman.

[stevedeshazer]

1. What is your point?

I don't like pointless posts.

[Drunken Irishman]

6. The point from the OP is pretty clear I thought...

A lot of people suggested Martin was huge - muscular, tall, scary and just towered over Zimmerman, so, it wasn't a surprise he could overtake him.

Martin is 5'11, which is above average, but he's also only 158 lbs, which would make him pretty skinny.

I am roughly Martin's height/weight and I do not tower over much of anyone. I do not look intimidating.

[stevedeshazer]

7. Thanks.

I guess I just needed a translation. The OP wasn't very clear. Now, I get it.

[Drunken Irishman]

8. I understand...I think it was trying to be a bit snarky to those who suggest he was a towering bully

I've heard it too. I've heard it from a lot of people. That he was a hulk and the photo they were showing was nowhere near what he looked like (the young photo if him). When in reality, if he's 5'11 and 158 lbs, while he could be toned and maybe a bit muscular, I would hardly consider that remarkably huge.

[stevedeshazer]

9. 10-4 buddy...n/t

[dpibel]

10. Thanks for the translation

I thought it was pretty clear, but was obviously wrong.

My point was that there was great outrage that Zimmerman was originally reported as a 250-pounder when he was actually much more svelte.

In the meantime, Martin has grown to a threatening 6'2" or more.

The autopsy report is now being bruited about for Martin's hand injury.

I just thought it was worth pointing out that the kid was really not as big as the Zimmerman defenders have been claiming.

[JI7]

25. this is a pic of Trayvon a few days/weeks before he died

[Drunken Irishman]

30. That's about right. He and I are the same build.

Sad that people have made Martin into the monster here.

[WillParkinson]

49. He's obviously a threat...

Wearing his Reese's shirt and look how frightened that poor horse is.

[magical thyme]

72. well he is towering

over the horse.

[Speck Tater]

2. All those who live in fact-free zones

make up stories to fit their preconceptions.

This is neither new nor surprising. It's just the way people are.

[Thinkingabout]

3. Some Zimmerman backers explained Martin was so big

He scared poor Zimmerman. The big giant pulled Zimmerman out of his vehicle and started beating his head on the concrete and almost turned him into a vegetable who would have remained on a feeding tube for the rest of his life. Yea, right, now tell the real story.

[bluestateguy]

4. I remember one hysterical blogger called him a "17 year old man"

I just, ugh.

[Life Long Dem]

5. Would a woman be rightly terrified of this towering manchild?

Then your math is flawed.

[vaberella]

12. I wouldn't be. n/t

[Life Long Dem]

14. Just saying

You should have the right to defend yourself in case. In case there is someone who you feel your life threatened by.

[dpibel]

29. Nope

It is never a question of what you feel threatened by.

That is a subjective test.

The legal standard is an objective, reasonable person standard.

[Life Long Dem]

35. Yep

It is "always" a question of what you feel threatened by.".

[Taverner]

67. I am threatened by women who have a mean look in their eye. Can I shoot them?

[Life Long Dem]

68. Me too

Shoot them.

[dpibel]

13. This is relevant how?

Was George Zimmerman a woman?

Because he's the one who needs to prove that he was reasonably (a legal standard) in fear of grave bodily injury or death.

Not sure, actually, what you intend with the question.

[Life Long Dem]

16. It's relevant

because we all have a right to defend ourselves in a life threatening situation. Whether you want to side with Trayvon or Zimmerman is irrelevant.

[Ikonoklast]

18. Like Zimmerman's ex-girl friend?

What's also relevant is the previous history of violence by the shooter.

[Life Long Dem]

21. OK

Try Zimmerman on his previous history and not the crime at hand. See what the prosecution gets from the jury on that.

[dpibel]

19. Help me out

In this case, the sole question for the jury will be this:

Would a reasonable person, in a situation like that Zimmerman was in, pull the trigger?

The situation Zimmerman was in did not actually involve a woman.

So, as near as I can tell, your question has nothing to do with anything.

The jury will never be asked to decide whether a woman would have been frightened by a black male, 5'11", 158 lbs.

They will be asked to decide whether a 28-year-old-man, about 5'9", about (IIRC) 185 lbs., carrying a deadly weapon, would reasonably fear for his life under the circumstances.

[Life Long Dem]

24. Actually

It will be instructed to the jury whether any "person" would have felt their life threatened in this situation to warrant the shooting. We all have rights. To say this person has more of a right than this woman is wrong and not equal rights.

[dpibel]

31. You are wrong

You could help yourself, if you were interested in knowing what you were talking about, by looking at the Florida pattern jury instructions on self-defense.

I'm not convinced, however, that you're interested in that.

[JI7]

22. so Zimmerman can shoot anyone who is taller than him because he is scared of them ?

[Life Long Dem]

26. If that's the law and someones life feels threatened.

Yes. Anymore questions?

[dpibel]

32. Well, that's not the law

So I guess I do have remaining questions.

Do you have any idea what you're talking about would be one.

I can think of others.

[Gemini Cat]

15. Whoa, what?

I don't understand your question, what do women have to do with this?

[JI7]

23. Zimmerman likes to beat up women

[Gemini Cat]

28. Okay, got it.

[Life Long Dem]

27. I understand your confused.

Sorry.

[Gemini Cat]

33. Confused about what?

I don't think many women would be scared of a skinny 5'11'' candy carrying kid. Especially since the kid was minding his own business, just talking to someone on a mobile. Maybe you would be?

[Life Long Dem]

34. I wouldn't be.

But maybe a petite woman would be. But does the law determine who is weak or petite or is the law equal to everyone?

[uppityperson]

40. If a petite woman is scared of someone walking along minding his own business, carrying skittles,

talking on the phone, she has a problem and needs help.

[JDPriestly]

50. As a petite, older woman, I have to agree, uppityperson.

[Life Long Dem]

74. But what if they break your nose?

[uppityperson]

76. Whoosh go the goal posts.

[Life Long Dem]

77. That's what the jury will see

Who threw the first punch and did this first punch derive a deadly shot.

[uppityperson]

78. What? That goalposts were moved? That Zimmy was a petite woman?

LLD:Would a woman be rightly terrified of this towering manchild?
LLD:But maybe a petite woman would be. But does the law determine who is weak or petite or is the law equal to everyone?

UP:If a petite woman is scared of someone walking along minding his own business, carrying skittles,talking on the phone, she has a problem and needs help.

LLD:But what if they break your nose?

[Chan790]

80. If it occurs after a 911 dispatcher told you to desist from following them down the street...

and you continued to stalk them...it's your own damned fault they broke your nose. They were defending themselves from the creepy malevolent fellow following them down the street.

[all american girl]

56. First, there were no women involved in this, so your woman thing is irrevelant

As a woman of 5'2", on a good day, I can tell you that us small women are not afraid of bigger people. We would be running scared all the time if that was the case. So please don't make us the excuse...but let's turn it around, if you want to talk about women...what if Trayvon was a 5'11", 158 lbs, 17 year old girl? The deal is that Zimmerman was tracking a kid and ANYONE would be scared having any size person following them. Even my 6'1" hubby would feel uncomfortable if a man or woman of any size, was following him in a SUV and then on foot.

[JI7]

20. i wouldn't be afraid of him and i'm like 5'3 , he looks like the typical skinny tall kid

you would see in any high school / college and wherever young people hang out. drinking soda, ice tea whatever, eating candy.

why would i feel threatened by that ?

[Life Long Dem]

36. Lets break your nose and see what you say.

[JI7]

37. i'm not going around threatening people with a gun

[Life Long Dem]

38. Well

Maybe Zimmerman had it coming.

[Cave_Johnson]

55. I've seen this more and more recently...

Is there any evidence that has come out to show that Zimmerman approached Martin with a gun showing (exposing his concealed carry 9mm) or that it was in his hand before whatever physical confrontation occurred?

I'm not saying it isn't there, maybe I missed it.

[treestar]

83. You're not claiming to believe that Trayvon just went up to Zimmerman

and punched him in the nose are you? We already know Zimmerman's attitude from his 911 calls and failure to go away from the scene. We know from that it was Zimmerman who started any confrontation.

There is no proof of when the broken nose happened, either.

[uppityperson]

39. Walking down a street minding his own business, carrying skittles? No, I wouldn't be.

[Life Long Dem]

41. Of course you wouldn't be.

How about after some stranger breaks your nose? Would you then feel threatened by some skinny high schooler?

[uppityperson]

42. You mean a skinny high schooler walks up to me, punches me in the nose for no reason?

What in the world does that have to do with anything? Is this a version of "let's play pretend"? OK. I've got one for you. How about if a skinny high schooler throws a baboon into the stroller your baby is sleeping in? Your turn.

[Life Long Dem]

44. Yes

And if that happened would you defend yourself after they broke a nose?

[uppityperson]

45. I asked 4 questions. You only answered the first. eom

[Life Long Dem]

46. Easy enough

Q. You mean a skinny high schooler walks up to me, punches me in the nose for no reason? Yes.


Q. What in the world does that have to do with anything? Self defense.



Q. Is this a version of "let's play pretend"? No


Q. OK. I've got one for you. How about if a skinny high schooler throws a baboon into the stroller your baby is sleeping in? Your turn.
I'd say the high schooler has a problem with animals.

Lets have fun and pretend you were in the same situation as Zimmerman. Some stranger punches you in the nose breaking it. Do you defend yourself? Or do you sit there asking stupid questions about strollers and babies?

[JI7]

48. Trayvon wasn't a random Stranger to Zimmerman, he was the guy Zimmerman was going after

police calls prove this.

[Life Long Dem]

51. You actually didn't say anything.

You said Trayvon wasn't a stranger. Okay, what's that mean? You mean it to mean Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon?

Yet he was only following him and that wouldn't account for a STALKING crime.

Next you say police calls prove this. Prove what? That Zimmerman was following someone? Right. Excuse me if I'm lost and following someone, I may get killed if I follow someone because I got lost.

[JI7]

52. he had a gun,police calls show Trayvon was trying to get away

a guy with a gun who said "they always get away" going after someone.

[Life Long Dem]

54. I don't like it either

[JDPriestly]

53. But, Trayvon Martin was not some stranger punching Zimmerman in the nose.

Trayvon Martin was a young man walking down the street talking to a friend on his cell phone. Zimmerman saw Trayvon, noticed his race and that he was wearing a black hoodie looking around at the houses. In his first call to 911, Zimmerman profiled Trayvon as a likely criminal and stated something about how they always get away. In that call, Zimmerman admitted he was following Trayvon.

The fact that Zimmerman described Trayvon to 911 in terms that profiled Trayvon as a potential criminal suggests that Zimmerman convinced himself to be afraid of Trayvon without any reason and not because Trayvon hit him. Zimmerman just profiled Trayvon based on Zimmerman's imagination and while Trayvon was trying to rush home.

So, Zimmerman had already decided to distrust and fear Trayvon long before he actually had whatever encounter he and Trayvon had.

We really don't yet know what happened once Zimmerman caught up with Trayvon and ........ whatever ended in Zimmerman shooting Trayvon occurred.

Zimmerman's first 911 call was the beginning of what we know about their encounter. Zimmerman followed Trayvon. If he didn't, why did Trayvon and Zimmerman end up in the same location within 4 feet of each other when during the 911 call, Zimmerman stated that Trayvon was running away and that Zimmerman did not want to see Trayvon get away?

[Life Long Dem]

70. Nothing is really relevant until the first punch

If Trayvon broke Zimmerman's nose, did Zimmerman have a right to defend himself from this?

[uppityperson]

75. If Zimmy attacked Trayvon, did Tray have the right to defend himself from this?

[uppityperson]

69. OK. I'm Zimmy. I stalk a teen, harass him, approach him and shove him. The teen shoves me back, we

fight and I get my nose broken. Who is defending himself? The teen who was stalked and accosted, or me for instigating and attacking him and getting hurt in the process? If I attack you, and you defend yourself, does that mean I am defending myself from your defense? If you believe so, as it appears you do, hahahahahahahahahaaha.

Since Zimmy wasn't a stranger minding his own business when he got his nose broken, IF he even did get his nose broken as I have suspicions about this "evidence", so your situations have no bearing on it.

[vaberella]

59. Don't waste your time. That posters logic is all screwed.

If Zimmerman felt so threatened, he would have stayed in the car. He clearly described Trayvon Martin as a serious threat. Then he should never have pursued.

[Life Long Dem]

60. And in rolls logic?

Answer me this. If you are punched in the nose, and someone breaks your nose. Do you defend yourself? Lets see you squirm out of the answer using your logic.

[bluesbassman]

82. My nose has been broken twice from being punched. I didn't kill the guys who did it.

What you are referring to is not self defense, it's called retaliation. If the narrative is to be believed, and Martin struck Zimmerman in the face, Zimmerman retaliated with deadly force. That is not defending one's self and you know it.

[Ediacara]

84. So effing ridiculous

Anyone who thinks that the incident can be boiled down to a punch in the nose is being intentionally obtuse. And no, I wouldn't use deadly force on someone who punched me in the nose.

[vaberella]

58. You know what the fuck annoys me about your post.

And it's been irritating me for a fucking long time. If I feel so "threatened" why the fuck did I get out of the car. Explain to me, someone who fears for their life getting out of the car. Look, Zimmerman implied the kid looked like he was on drugs, that he has something unidentifiable in hands and he doesn't look alright.

How do you have the gall to throw in "threatened" in the case of Zimmerman. When just by the descriptions alone, if he was so scared he would have stayed in the car and waited for the police. You don't approach a potential hazard.

Your statement on "threatened" is BS. Unless you're a vigilante or someone thinking their John Wayne, in other words --completely insane; you don't go up to someone who you even described as being potentially dangerous.

[Life Long Dem]

62. Who cares whether they got out of the car or not

The question is, did you defend yourself when your nose was broken?

[WilliamPitt]

61. Did a woman shoot him?

Then your straw man is for shit.

[Life Long Dem]

63. Does a woman have more or less rights to self defense?

Why should the law give more self defense rights to a woman over Zimmerman?

[WilliamPitt]

66. Does that have anything to do with the topic at hand?

No.

[Life Long Dem]

73. I don't think Zimmerman should have killed Trayvon

I think a little anger and revenge played into Zimmerman's killing Trayon. But I wasn't in Zimmerman's shoes.

I've been in Zimmerman's situation before, and didn't end up killing someone, but could have under self defense. I've had a couple broken noses during my heavy drinking days, and could have killed someone but didn't.

[Hissyspit]

81. WTF?

[vaberella]

11. Apparently he played football so he was scary. Oh and he knew MMA.

Apparently he was wearing his football ninja jersey during the time of his death.

[brush]

47. Ninja jersey?

It's been out there forever. He was wearing a hoodie, remember?

[vaberella]

57. Do you know what MMA?

It stands for Mixed Martial Arts...apparently the apologists claim that witnesses say that Trayvon was doing Mixed Martial Arts moves on Zimmerman.

[Life Long Dem]

64. Perhaps the nose breaking was scary

Who cares at that point what the nose breaker was wearing.

[ScreamingMeemie]

17. Zimmerman had a gun and a truck and is a murderer.

I don't care if Trayvon Martin ends up being 10 feet tall by the time this is over.

My 13 year old son is 5'11", which is hardly "towering" over my 5'8". I can still scare the crap out of him with a look.

[brettdale]

43. Why have the motherfuckin trial

Fox news has already found Zimmerman NOt guilty and if anyone think differently you have been brainwashed by the
LIBERAL media.

The photo they show today on tv was terrible, it was split screen, one of Martin, in his hoodie, (I think they made it more blacker) and the photo on Zimmerman was a delight, it was bright, he was in a suit and he had a huge huge smile on his face, i mean seriously he looked so sweet, you just wanted to take him home and give him cuddles.

It was cringe worthy.

[ScreamingMeemie]

65. ABC even jumped on the bandwagon last night, with this headline:

Cops, Witnesses Back Up George Zimmerman's Version of Trayvon Martin Shooting


Which gives me sickening flashbacks to the stealing of the 2000 elections. ABC called it, then Fox called it another way, then ABC changed it.