Should we think of guns from a different perspective??

[kentuck]

It has become obvious to most that there can be no political resolution to any type of gun controls.

Therefore, maybe we should tackle the problem from a crime and punishment approach? Republicans have never been adverse to punish people who commit crimes? Nobody is tougher than Republicans on crime.

So, why not make the punishment for possession of a gun in the commission of a crime much more strict? How about double the present sentencing? How about any convicted criminal in possession of a gun will get an automatic life sentence? How about laws that make guns taboo to have in your possession, if your intent is to harm or kill someone?

Also, there should be a criminal penalty for anyone that sells a gun to someone who commits a crime with that gun. It should be very severe.

Rather than focus on common-sense gun control measures, maybe it is time to focus on the punishment measures? Surely, Republicans would agree with those?

[One_Life_To_Give]

1. Would appear to have only negative effects

While having little effect on the Crime Rate disproportionately affects people of Color.

a black person is nearly twice as likely to face a mandatory minimum carrying charge than a white person who is prosecuted for the same conduct.

A recent report issued by the Bluhm Legal Clinic of the Northwestern University Law School concluded that “decades of empirical evidence and evaluations of specific state experiences demonstrate that mandatory sentences will not reduce gun violence.” Studies of the impact of such laws in Florida, Massachusetts, Virginia and Michigan found no discernible effect on violent crime rates.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/opinion/reduce-gun-penalties.html

If it was shown to actually work I might change my opinion. But why throw away the key on people when it has no positive effect?

[kentuck]

2. How could it not have an effect??

If a large number of crimes are by repeat offenders??

[One_Life_To_Give]

4. Ask the Prof's who have done the studies

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1976/7/16/study-shows-massachusetts-gun-law-has/

A google search for studies on the effects of Massachusetts Mandatory sentencing for Guns seems to hit more law firms prepared to defend people from the charge than studies about it's effectiveness over the years. Would of thought one of the several prominent Criminology Prof's in Boston would have something definitive about this.

[Brickbat]

3. How would these increased laws and punishments not be political?

[pipoman]

5. Maybe we should look at....all of the people who daily call

Up the FBI on the telly and say, "Hey FBI, I am prohibited from buying a gun, or possessing a gun but here I am, today right now, trying to illegally buy a gun". Since this happens tens of thousands of times per year and less than 1% are even investigated...how about we start there, eh?

[kentuck]

6. Might be a good start?

Otherwise, what do we do about the problem of guns and violence in our society?

[pipoman]

7. Take care of the latter and the former will look different

[dsc]

24. really people call the FBI and say that

I find that a bit hard to believe.

[pipoman]

26. Every day when they fill out their 4473 to buy a gun, sign it under penalty of perjury,

Then NICS denies the transfer. Happens tens of thousands of times per year. Not all are criminal but a fuckload more than 1% have to be felons and domestic abusers who just swore they weren't. Furthermore when they are denied do we believe they just decide owning a gun isn't for them? Or do they continue trying to get a gun by any means? I don't know why these people wouldn't be a priority...

[Dr. Strange]

8. Sounds good in theory...

So, why not make the punishment for possession of a gun in the commission of a crime much more strict?

Marissa Alexander faced 20 years in prison because of that type of "get tough on gun crime" legislation. And a lot of DUers were not happy about it.

Rather than focus on common-sense gun control measures, maybe it is time to focus on the punishment measures? Surely, Republicans would agree with those?

First, you need to make sure Democrats agree with those. I think most do in the abstract, until they see a case like Alexander's.

Before passing laws like this, make sure you know what you're getting into. Otherwise it becomes an awful lot like the War on Drugs.

[EL34x4]

9. Several states have sentencing enhancements on the books

for crimes committed with guns. Florida's 10-20-Life is a well-known example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-20-Life

And if you sell a gun to someone who commits a crime with it, you'd better call a lawyer. Two individuals who bought guns for the Columbine shooters went to prison.

[kentuck]

11. Chances are if a criminal has a gun...

...he is not hesitant to use it to wound or kill someone else? Criminals should not be permitted around guns at all. There has to be a disincentive. Otherwise...

[EL34x4]

20. Criminals aren't permitted to be around guns.

Not legally, anyways. Plenty of laws on the books already deal with this.

Problem with criminals is that so many of them don't obey the laws!

I'm not quite sure what you're proposing here.

[Eleanors38]

10. Worthy topic, but I don't think we are back to Guns Discussion again.

[kentuck]

12. I think we are talking more about criminal behavior...

than guns? Except guns being part of the criminal behavior.

[Yo_Mama]

13. I don't think you can legally punish someone for someone else's crime.

If the gun sale is legal, then the responsibility for the crime has to rest with the one who committed the crime.

If you want to make more gun sales illegal, then you could impose penalties for illegal sales.

You seem to be proposing something unconstitutional, but maybe you meant to propose harsher penalties for illegal gun sales?

[kentuck]

15. unless you are an accomplice?

If you know the person has a criminal record and you sell the gun anyway?

Or if you sell it to a complete stranger with a blank slate?

[Snobblevitch]

16. It is already against the law to sell a gun to someone

they know is not legally able to possess a firearm.

[whatthehey]

23. It's perfectly legal to sell a gun to a complete stranger with a blank slate

In fact private parties are expressly in law forbidden to use the background check access FFLs are mandated to use. If buyer A does not tell me he is a felon how should I know? How should I be expected to? The only possible thing you can do to private sales is to more heavily criminalize selling to people who you know are felons. Expecting sellers to guess is opening up thoughtcrime.

[TheKentuckian]

14. "Tough on crime" bullshit doesn't work except as a way to punish the disadvantaged at e higher rates

Also, has no effect on the massacre situations, those are about always a self destruct/suicide by cop scenario.

I will also posit that schemes to attract TeaPubliKlans that actually happen usually come with downside greater than any good from the effort.

Anytime you can get those fuckers to do anything it is a sure poison pill.

[NutmegYankee]

17. We do those thing with drugs - They do not work.

[PowerToThePeople]

18. No. Just Ban all Guns! n/t

[Wounded Bear]

19. I'm sure the prison industrial complex would love this...

They are usually the driving force behind all of the increased and mandatory sentencing laws.

[CK_John]

21. Take off the trigger finger the first time, and additional digits with each gun crime.

[oneshooter]

36. Should the same apply to rapists? n/t

[kentuck]

22. And the other little voice on my shoulder says?

"Distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful."

Nietzsche

[WDIM]

29. nice quote.. nt

[Recursion]

25. That was the idea behind Project Exile in Richmond, VA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Exile

Any use of a gun in a crime was prosecuted under the 1968 gun control act which had a 10 year (federal) minimum sentence.

The results have been mixed. Incarceration soared, and violent crime fell. But that happened nationwide, so it's difficult to determine how much of that was this policy.

[MicaelS]

27. The problem I see is that...

No matter how tough you make the gun related sentences, there will be a tendency for prosecutors or the defense to plead those down to a lesser charge in exchange for pleading guilty to something else that is more "high visibility".

[WDIM]

28. How about we fix the societal problems that cause crime.

Instead of creating more laws and more criminals.

Anti-gun laws will be used against minorities the most. The answer is not always passing new laws.

A repeal of laws and ending the vulture capitalist practices that perpetuates poverty would be a good start.

[Warpy]

32. Overall crime is down.

it's been going down since we got the lead out of gasoline.

[WDIM]

33. why so worried about guns then?

Seems to me if we took the money it would take to enforce a plan like the op and put that towards education we could stop more crimes before they happen.

[Warpy]

34. Guns make truly horrific crime too easy

Overall crime is down but mass murder is up.

Liability insurance. It's the only way.

[napi21]

30. Mandatory sentencing never works. There are always unforseen circumstances.

Even Bill Clinton admitted when he signed the mandatory sentencing when he was pres. he was wrong.

Somehow, we have to change the image of guns in America. Like they did with cigarettes. Make it socially unacceptable. There's only one way I can see that ever happening. Destroy the image and reputation of the NRA. THEY and their $$ are what's keeping guns so popular. They are NOT a BIG group! They're just very vocal. The majority of American's have to become LOUDER than the NRA. Yes, their $$ influences the candidates, but WE are the ones who VOTE! Enough people have to contact their congress critters and say they want stronger laws on purchasing & keeping guns, and they will NOT get our vote if they vote against it. If we are a big enough group, SIT WILL HAPPEN!

[Warpy]

31. Treat 'em like cars

and require liability insurance on them. I'm sure the NRA would welcome an opportunity to get into the liability insurance game. It's a proven moneymaker.

[akbacchus_BC]

35. Honestly, gun control can be achieved. However,

when the population is over 300 million and people like to go hunt and it is allowed, that is a different issue. I would not want their guns to be confiscated because they go hunting when it is allowed.

I think that when a young adult goes to buy a gun, it should be more than three days for the approval to come through! A young adult who lives with his parents should not be able to purchase a gun.

The law failed in the case of Roof being able to purchase a guy but what fails me is how he could sit with nine people in a bible study and after an hour, he kills them. That was premediated and callous!

[Marengo]

38. Why should living with parents be a prohibitive factor?

[HereSince1628]

37. Punishment would still follow politically led policy...Why not make it an ethical/religious issue?

Why not have people talking about loving and caring for each other

Why aren't the pulpits of the nation blasting congregations with messages that gunfire is not what Jesus would do?

It's no accident that the nation with the most guns and the most civilian shootings, is also the nation with the largest military with the largest military presence around the world.

The fault, I think lies not in our punishments, it lies in how we orient to our fears.