Our country is going thru major social changes...

[kentuck]

Not only with the flag coming down in Charleston but also, with the Supreme Court making gay marriage legal.

In my opinion, these are only the beginning. We are due for even more changes, most likely from economic institutions.

The big upcoming debate will be about capitalism vs socialism. The popularity of Bernie Sanders is the canary in the coal mine. People are becoming very tired of the present capitalist system. They are beginning to connect the societal problems of this country, such as crime, drugs, wealth inequality, disregard for our environment, and numerous other problems, directly to the capitalist system and the capitalists that are neglecting the interests of the people.

There are more big changes coming. Socialism, for many years unpopular with the American people, will make a comeback. Although they may not gain control of our government, they will dictate the policies of the future, in my opinion.

[onehandle]

1. Our government is largely Socialist already.

Few will admit it.

The key is tweaking who the Socialism benefits.

[Initech]

5. Right now socialism benefits giant corporations and the über rich.

They get all the subsidies, the bailouts and the tax breaks. We need to change that.

[jwirr]

8. Socialism does that? I don't think that is exactly how it works. It is more like capitalism works

with the 1% to enable them (through socialistic benefits) to keep everything in their hands instead of true socialism which would distribute the wealth better.

[gollygee]

9. I see that poster's point

Right now, we socialize corporations' expenses and risks, but not their profits. Much of the socialism we have helps corporations.

[jwirr]

15. I see. I wasn't thinking of that. Do you think they realize what they are doing?

[gollygee]

18. I think they realize other people are responsible for their risks and expenses

but I doubt they think of it as socialism. That's certainly what it is, though.

[kentuck]

19. I think they think of it as part of modern-day capitalism...

Get the common folks to pay for everything they, the capitalists, should be paying for, including donating to charities...

[hifiguy]

25. Socialism for the corporations and the wealthy,

the sharpest edge of capitalism for everyone else.

[PowerToThePeople]

20. IT IS NOT SOCIALISM!!

Last edited Sat Jul 11, 2015, 07:31 PM - Edit history (2)

It is fascism. Socialism is means of production owned by the communal commons. We have NO ownership or say in pretty much everything.

This is closer to feudalism and we are the serfs.

[olddots]

2. you got it right as ussual

I think the biggest change we will go thru is the way we socialize .Any place you go you see people being two places at once and maybe they're nowhere at all .

[kentuck]

3. I think Social Security will be saved and strengthened...

...as one of the first acts of the new movement.

[PatrickforO]

4. K&R X 1,000 - this is a GREAT observation, and very true. And, just maybe

it won't be too late to pull this out.

[libdem4life]

6. How I see it pretty much. But we have many socialistic institutions...libraries, K-12chools

Fire fighters, police, Medicare...almost all municipal and state agencies derive tax money and spend it equally on all. Any kind of insurance is socialistic, additional Federal funding to low income schools, and many more.

Every time I bring this up when talking about socialism and state Bernie just wants to add a few things, the conversation changes.

We have had income distribution that is unfair...in spades. It needs to be properly distributed. Taxes need to be paid...not just on wages or up to some magical number. Taxes need to be paid. Corporation "people" need to pay their fair share of taxes. It's just bringing us back to fairness, hardly socialism.

[jimlup]

7. I hope so...

I fear that it will take longer for sensible economic polices to prevail. The vested interests are so dug in. They will make it very much an uphill climb for someone like Bernie.

[cantbeserious]

10. Agreed - As An Example - Citizens United - Worst Development In My Lifetime

[jwirr]

13. I think we need to take a good hard look at our youth. They are the change we have wanted.

I am a 73 year old grandmother and most of my grandchildren are very progressive in their thinking on most issues. Socialism is the last thing they are worried about. They do not like the greed that is such a part of capitalism. Socially they are amazing - they recognize bigotry in all forms and fight it.

And through them us older generations learn how to change. I have watched the kids change their parents and just smile. I have always been very liberal and now I have reinforcements.

If we look at the rebellion against austerity in the whole world we can see what is coming. Countries in South America rejected Friedman's austerity plan for them and many of them became socialist as a result. Iceland said no to austerity immediately. And while it is not going to help Greece because they are too far gone they at least tried to say no.

And the interest in Bernie has clearly shown that our own country wants a change. Where this change will take us I am not sure. It could just convince the !% that they have gone too far and that they need to change. Or it could take us back to the era of FDR and a mixed economy. Or we could move closer to the European model of democratic socialism. Or it could take us all the way sometime down the road to complete socialism.

What I do know is that change is happening.

[jimlup]

32. As Chomsky says...

We will discover "if the instinct for freedom is real."

[jwirr]

33. Exactly.

[Spider Jerusalem]

11. The big upcoming debate is a lot more likely to be about growth vs sustainability

a lot of factors are combining to make the next few decades look pretty bleak in a lot of ways--drought and water crises in the West and Southwest, for instance; what happens when Lake Mead and Lake Powell are no longer able to supply hydropower to a few million people, let alone water? What happens when Miami and New Orleans are under water? What happens when the Antarctic ice sheets and Greenland glaciers melt enough to raise sea levels by ten feet? Will the USA be able to afford to continue getting two-thirds of its electricity from fossil fuels? Will people be able to afford to keep driving gasoline-powered cars everywhere? If there's a major shift in infrastructure, what form will it take, and how much of a reduction in standards of living is going to be required? These are the really important questions, the ones that matter not just right now but over the next century, and any politics that ignores these things is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

[murielm99]

12. This should be an OP.

It is the most intelligent post in the entire thread. Thanks!

[jwirr]

14. These are definitely the catalist of change. Hopefully it will be change for all of us not just the

1%.

[Arugula Latte]

16. Look at this, an article on how to grow marijuana in the major "mainstream" newspaper in Oregon:

http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/index.ssf/2015/06/planning_to_grow_your_own_mari.html

It was also on the cover of the "Home and Garden" section of the paper version.

Changing times indeed.

[Ex Lurker]

17. A friend from college posted a pic of a rebel flag and a rainbow flag side by side

in front of his house. He's openly gay. He's also a member of a very old, very prominent New Orleans family. People are individuals, and how these crosscurrents intersect is not always predictable.

[GeorgeGist]

22. The flag coming down is a crumb.

It does nothing to address the roots that gave rise to Dylann Roof. IMO

[kentuck]

23. Will our politicians finally address the problem of crimes committed with guns?

And put super stiff sentences on all crimes committed where a gun is involved? If criminals have guns, then we must assume that they would not hesitate to shoot or kill others? If the Republicans do not have the fortitude to address the problem with guns, then maybe we could get them to address stiffer sentences for crimes committed with guns?

[awoke_in_2003]

30. No, unfortunately, they will not address the real problem...

they took down the flag, we proles should just shut up and be happy.

[I_Like_Hammers]

24. I hope I live long enough to see capitalism die

Any amount of torture that comes with living in lifelong poverty will be worth it, if I live to see capitalism die the agonizing death it deserves.

[hifiguy]

26. The choice will be a simple one

A capitalist system that is destroying humanity and the planet on which we live, or the survival of our species.

[kentuck]

27. Basically true.

It is a choice about whether we survive or not. Look at all the crime in our cities, the unemployment, the gangs, our education system, the wealth inequality, the destruction of our environment, the military adventures around the world, the lack of adequate healthcare, the decline of our infrastructure. It is obvious that the answer is not the present capitalist system.

[daleo]

28. I agree

And it is not just the U.S.. It is worldwide, a dawning awareness that life shouldn't have to be so hard. The human race has the scientific and organizational knowledge to make a fair life for all - not opulent, but fair. And yet, everywhere we are in chains, under the thumbs of a very few.

[Hydra]

31. To most of us, it will seem opulent, I think

And some really exciting technological developments could bring us a lot of luxuries for not much electricity.

[Uncle Joe]

29. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, kentuck.