Southern Culture

[arely staircase]

The Southern states have a rich and unique culture(s) so far beyond and so much more worthy of fond remembrance than being the bad guys and losers in a civil war.

Jazz, Blues, fried green tomatoes, butter beans ,Janice Joplin, blackberry cobbler, peach cobbler, Ann Richards, pimento cheese, bread pudding black eyed peas, Walt Whitman, barbeque, sweet tea, gospel music, elvis, good manners, Mark Twain, Edgar Allen Poe, REM, Band of Horses, Allman Brothers, William Faulkner, Tennessee Williams, Harper Lee, Hunter S. Thompson, MLK, ...,,

we have a lot to be proud of and don't need the disgraced banner of a defeated slave nation to represent us.

btw here is what would be flying over the sc capitol had they gone the way of South Africa

[Spider Jerusalem]

1. Walt Whitman was from New York? Spent most of his life in Brooklyn.

Which was more ruralish, in those days.

[arely staircase]

3. my bad. nt

[1939]

14. Whitman served as a civilian nurse to the Union Army NT

[cheapdate]

2. Pecan pie, Mardi Gras, Dixieland jazz,

Delta blues (Muddy Waters, Robert Johnson, Howlin Wolf, Johnny Shines...), Jambalaya, Zydeco, Truman Capote, Flannery O’Connor, Johnny Cash, Emmy Lou Harris, Dr. John, the Dulcimer, Bluegrass,

[arely staircase]

4. Willie Nelson nt

[Facility Inspector]

18. rice and gravy

file gumbo

[arely staircase]

19. Tex-Mex and LBJ nt

[Facility Inspector]

20. Austin, Texas

Dirty rice and cornbread

[Humanist_Activist]

5. I don't see the need for such an all encompassing flag to represent such a varied area...

More local flags, State, County and or City seem more appropriate.

I'm an(at least) fifth generation St. Louisan of German Immigrants, one of which was a Union veteran who volunteered to fight for his country, rather than against it. Whether he was a Bohemian progressive or just a poor homesteader wanting a steady meal really doesn't matter.

The point is that this flag:



More represents the culture I grew up in than any "Southern" flag does, no matter how badly either the failed Confederate States or current neo-Confederate wish, Missouri was a de facto Union state, and St. Louis a strong Union city. Neither the flag you propose, nor the various Confederate flags have ever represented us.

I never heard the term "War of Northern Aggression" in school, it was the Civil War, and the focus was mostly on the tragedy in Missouri. It tore our state apart, so much so that we still feel the reverberations of it to this day, even legal ramifications. A few years ago, by state-wide referendum, St. Louis city was finally able to take control of its own police force, it was taken away by the State government at the start of the Civil War. Kansas City still has its police run by a state appointed board.

[arely staircase]

10. missouri's had a 'confederate government in exile in marshall, tx

Acting on the ordinance passed by the Jackson government, the Confederate Congress admitted Missouri as the 12th confederate state on November 28, 1861.[8] The Jackson government subsequently named Senators to the Confederate Congress. It was driven into exile from Missouri after confederates lost control of the state and Jackson died a short while later in Arkansas. The secessionist government continued in exile, eventually setting up a legislature in Marshall, Texas until the end of the war. At the war's conclusion, the successors to the provisional government continued to govern the state of Missouri.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_secession

[Humanist_Activist]

11. That strengthens my point, despite the best efforts of secessionists in Missouri, they failed...

in being able to control Missouri itself, nor were they legitimate, particularly after Jackson died, at least in my opinion. They didn't control one square foot of the state, and were a state government on paper only, playing pretend in the Texas and sending pretend Senators to the Confederate Congress. They were effectively dissolved by the military, but fled instead, who then called for new elections.

[Sherman A1]

12. Agreed

I always liked the St. Louis flag. Thought it rather nice symbolism both historically and looking toward the future.

[Igel]

15. The South let others define it as a homogeneous area.

When really, it wasn't. But when you're thrown together and under a kind of siege, that's what happens. It takes a lot of will to avoid accepting being defined by others.

It's like the UNIA flag from 1920, the "pan-African flag". The "reps" that adopted it let themselves be defined by others, and vacuously assumed that the mere existence of the flag made them into a "nation." One strictly based on skin-color, which has got to be one of the most shallow and racist things around. (They didn't adopt it, but adopting a shallow and racist idea doesn't make it less shallow and racist.)

Various sides play this game to this day. Many in the South, having let their borders be defined from without, finally did self-define themselves, although in various ways. Now others are again seeking to define them because, well, outsiders always know what's going on in the minds of each member of a community better than those people themselves. It comes with the humility born of one's self-awareness of one's own omniscience.

[Humanist_Activist]

29. I think many of them embraced it as a type of "nationalist" identity that...

is manifesting itself as the Confederacy, with a yearning for the so called golden age of the antebellum south. However, it should be noted that just like most golden ages, this one was exaggerated and only a few were able to enjoy it. There also revisionism involved, obviously. This is almost exclusively a white phenomenon.

What really puzzles me is the nationalism displayed by these same people towards the United States. They are proud of both thier ancestors treason and the country those ancestors fought against.

[arely staircase]

35. there is a lot less confederate love in texas than the rest of the south

Probably because we have a separate unique nationalism.

[Humanist_Activist]

37. That's actually kinda funny because Texas has the distinction of seceding from two countries...

over slavery.

You can claim that Mexico was poorly managed, and started clamping down on the American immigrants for other reasons, but the big thing they were clamping down on is they didn't want those Americans to bring in slaves, for they outlawed slavery in Mexico.

But secession only worked once.

[arely staircase]

39. Santa Ana suspended the constitution and declared himself dictator

I dont deny slavery's role in Texas history. But the suspension of the 1824 Mexican Constitution was the cause. The flag of the revolutionaries was the Mexican tri-color with 1824 on it.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=es-419&site=webhp&tbm=isch&source=hp&ei=EcaiVbOZJ8v4yQTs74DICw&q=alamo+flag&oq=alamo+flag&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.12..0i19l2j0i5i30i19l3.1992.7003.0.8035.11.11.0.1.1.0.327.1244.8j2j0j1.11.0....0...1c.1j4.64.mobile-gws-hp..0.11.1046.3.ffuVI12fRWs#imgrc=z43olWd2zDyNUM%3A

[kentauros]

6. Maybe SC (or any of them) should fly this flag instead:

[arely staircase]

7. flown by the confederates at the battle of schrute farm. nt

[kentauros]

8. I don't think anyone has ever flown the flag I posted.

(Yes, I know you meant the other one you posted.)

[arely staircase]

9. no yours

battle of schrute farm

[LuvNewcastle]

13. I've seen a very similar flag flown

in the French Quarter. Maybe it had pink stars instead of triangles or some other little detail that was different. I laughed like hell the first time I saw it. Seems like I might have seen them for sale somewhere in New Orleans, but don't ask me where.

[arely staircase]

22. that is totally a new orleans type thing nt

[kentauros]

24. That's very interesing!

I'd like to see it

The one I posted was something I put together a couple of weeks ago to see what people thought of the idea. The reaction was nonexistent, so I still don't know if it was too much, or they just don't want that overall design.

[sufrommich]

16. The South has made massive contributions to America's culture.

I hate to see that get lost in the confederate flag controversy. My favorite place to be in the south,Brookgreen Gardens,South Carolina,is a former plantation transformed into a beautiful sculpture garden:

[arely staircase]

17. yep. to hell with the flag, to hell with the confederacy, long live the south. nt

[treestar]

21. There are a lot of AA southerners

I'd like to see their take on this.

[arely staircase]

23. the souths greatest contributions came from AAs

That is why my list starts with Jazz and Blues.

[treestar]

26. none of the people mentioned by name

are black except one of the Allman Brothers.

I just want to hear a black person say they are proud of the south and celebrate all the things you mentioned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_African-American_population

Especially since they make up around a third of the population.

[arely staircase]

31. MLK is on the list and it isn't meant to be definitive

But to deny the existence of a shared southern culture between white and black southerners (and increasingly Hispanic) is wrong. I agree my list should be more diverse.

Barbara Jordan (probably the greatest American and Southerner I have been privileged to meet.) Mickey Leland was a bad ass too.

[cwydro]

25. I work with black southerners (and northerners).

I'm actually in the minority at one of my jobs.

We get along just fine; we freely discuss the flag issue, and I would assume they love living here as much as I. Many of my co-workers have family up north. But they've chosen to live in the south, just as anyone would do.

No one is forced to live in the south.

[DawgHouse]

27. Purple hull peas are far superior to black eyed peas, IMO.

[arely staircase]

34. I have watched my grandmother shell thousands into a wash tub

now there is southern experience for you, white or black.

[DawgHouse]

38. Good times, indeed!

I used to grow acres of purple hulls. I shelled so many peas, we ended up buying an electric pea sheller!

[Hoyt]

28. Excellent post. Lots of good in south. Slavery, racism, conservative government, etc., ain't it.

[arely staircase]

33. yes. the politics suck. people like me work every day of our lives to change that

Liberals in red states are tough.

[Jetboy]

30. Little Richard, Fats Domino, Elvis, James Brown, Carl Perkins,

Johnny Cash, Jerry Lee Lewis, Otis Redding, Larry Williams, Gene Vincent, Janis Martin, Johnny Burnette, Wanda Jackson, Lloyd Price, Ruth Brown, Don and Phil Everly

[arely staircase]

32. there you go. nt

[cwydro]

36. k and r