Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

malaise

(269,067 posts)
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 08:36 PM Jul 2015

Pssssssst! US torture doctors could face charges after report alleges post-9/11 'collusion'


Charge Bush, Cheney and the rest of the war criminals as well
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/jul/10/us-torture-doctors-psychologists-apa-prosecution
<snip>
The largest association of psychologists in the United States is on the brink of a crisis, the Guardian has learned, after an independent review revealed that medical professionals lied and covered up their extensive involvement in post-9/11 torture. The revelation, puncturing years of denials, has already led to at least one leadership firing and creates the potential for loss of licenses and even prosecutions.

For more than a decade, the American Psychological Association (APA) has maintained that a strict code of ethics prohibits its more than 130,000 members to aid in the torture of detainees while simultaneously permitting involvement in military and intelligence interrogations. The group has rejected media reporting on psychologists’ complicity in torture; suppressed internal dissent from anti-torture doctors; cleared members of wrongdoing; and portrayed itself as a consistent ally against abuse.

Now, a voluminous independent review conducted by a former assistant US attorney, David Hoffman, undermines the APA’s denials in full – and vindicates the dissenters.

Several officials are likely to be sacked. Already out, a past APA president confirmed to the Guardian, is Stephen Behnke, the APA’s ethics chief and a leading figure in recasting its ethics guidelines in a manner conducive to interrogations that, from the start, relied heavily on psychologists to design and implement techniques like waterboarding.

But the reckoning with psychologists’ institutional complicity in torture may not stop there.

Way more at link - this is great news
44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Pssssssst! US torture doctors could face charges after report alleges post-9/11 'collusion' (Original Post) malaise Jul 2015 OP
Excellent news. Let's hope it continues to the logical end, with lawsuits. dixiegrrrrl Jul 2015 #1
Yes Bravo to all the dissenters malaise Jul 2015 #2
Wonderful! Solly Mack Jul 2015 #3
In case you're interested in some of the background on this story: Jefferson23 Jul 2015 #4
Thanks Jefferson23 malaise Jul 2015 #15
You're most welcome and thank you for the thread...critically important news. Jefferson23 Jul 2015 #17
I wish they would charge the Bush hierarchy malaise Jul 2015 #18
It is wrong to not go after the top, I agree. Jefferson23 Jul 2015 #19
Excellent post and OP. It's important we don't let this slide. DirkGently Jul 2015 #32
Call them by their real names - Jim Mitchell and Bruce Jessen Solly Mack Jul 2015 #35
Thanks. Fixed. -- switched that around twice and still got it wrong. DirkGently Jul 2015 #40
I would love to see them both in prison. Solly Mack Jul 2015 #41
We have to reject this now, or it becomes DirkGently Jul 2015 #42
I agree. Pretending it was some long ago event and that it's too late or too much trouble Solly Mack Jul 2015 #43
+1,000 malaise Jul 2015 #36
AMEN!!!! BrotherIvan Jul 2015 #37
It takes a professional association to call out torture gratuitous Jul 2015 #5
here the APA isn't doing the calling out MisterP Jul 2015 #6
Yeah, they swore the well paying Hypo-crite Oath! Ewww! n/t freshwest Jul 2015 #7
k&r Liberal_in_LA Jul 2015 #8
K&R valerief Jul 2015 #9
Sounds like a Freudian Slip there Demeter Jul 2015 #10
A year ago Obama said he understood why "we tortured some folks" - CharlotteVale Jul 2015 #11
And banned torture, because it "crossed a line"... bettyellen Jul 2015 #21
So why didn't he hold anyone accountable? CharlotteVale Jul 2015 #22
So, it's not ending torture that matters to you? Got it! bettyellen Jul 2015 #24
So, you can't answer my question? Got it! CharlotteVale Jul 2015 #25
Just wanted to give your post the context it was missing- but if you don't care about ending torture bettyellen Jul 2015 #26
You're doing nothing of the kind. You're putting words in my mouth CharlotteVale Jul 2015 #29
Because: "it is important for us not to feel too sanctimonious in retrospect PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #28
There has been a hard sell noise Jul 2015 #44
"But I was just following orders." PuraVidaDreamin Jul 2015 #12
The order givers AND followers... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2015 #39
Kickin for sunlight. nt raouldukelives Jul 2015 #13
k&r... spanone Jul 2015 #14
Charges and their licenses yanked. hobbit709 Jul 2015 #16
Please note these were psychologists, not psychiatrists donna123 Jul 2015 #20
DU's had a lot of articles on the APA's repeated (and failed) efforts to vote against torture MisterP Jul 2015 #23
Independant investigation, not APA. HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #27
K & R !!! WillyT Jul 2015 #30
Public and professional defrocking hifiguy Jul 2015 #31
Don't hold your breath. This is why USA refuses the International Criminal Court's Ghost Dog Jul 2015 #33
Wonderful - war criminals no matter what country they are from should face punishment. We jwirr Jul 2015 #34
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #38

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
1. Excellent news. Let's hope it continues to the logical end, with lawsuits.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 09:35 PM
Jul 2015

I gave up my professional license because the Alabama state board would not accept an amendment to its bylaws of non-discrimination to LBGT professional members,

while at the same time it willing stated it was illegal to discriminate against the clients of those same professionals.

Therefore I was pleased to hear that initially, some members of the APA were willing to resign in protest of the acceptance of torture.
And i was shocked that so many members simply ignored the issue.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
4. In case you're interested in some of the background on this story:
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 10:03 PM
Jul 2015

October 18, 2014, 8:00 pm
The APA Grapples with Its Torture Demons: Six Questions for Nathaniel Raymond

Nathaniel Raymond on CIA interrogation techniques.

By Scott Horton

One of the enduring questions surrounding the torture and black-sites program run by the CIA between early 2002 and the early fall of 2006 relates to the role played by psychologists and the bizarre conduct of their professional association, the American Psychological Association (APA). Drawing on a cache of secret email communications between key players in the torture program and senior officers of the APA, Pulitzer Prize–winning reporter James Risen suggests in Pay Any Price, his new book, that the APA rushed to change its ethics rules to allow its members to participate in the torture program. A key role in these disclosures is played by Nathaniel Raymond, a war-crimes investigator who analyzed these furtive communications for the FBI and who now heads Harvard’s Signal Program on Human Security and Technology. I put six questions to Raymond about the new disclosures, what they tell us about the APA, and the adoption of torture techniques by the CIA.

1. One of the most far-reaching disclosures contained in James Risen’s new book has to do with a CIA contractor named Scott Gerwehr. Risen says that Gerwehr spoke with a human rights investigator who secured an archive of his emails relating to his work for the CIA on interrogations issues. Are you that person? How did you come to meet Gerwehr, and why did he confide in you?

Yes, I am the unnamed human rights investigator referenced in Risen’s book. In the fall of 2006, Dr. Brad Olson, a Chicago-based professor of psychology, met Scott Gerwehr at a conference, where they discussed the treatment of detainees in U.S. custody.

Brad referred Scott to me at Physicians for Human Rights (PHR), where I worked on the Campaign Against Torture at the time. Scott and I spoke soon thereafter, on November 1, 2006. That phone call was the only substantive conversation we ever had.

To this day I don’t know either why Scott chose to confide in me or what he hoped I would do about what he told me. It knocked the wind out of me when he said he worked as a contractor for the CIA detecting deception by detainees during interrogations.

Scott went on to say that he had been at a secret CIA facility at Guantánamo in the summer of 2006 but left after the agency would not let him install cameras “like at the other facilities.” I assume this is the same facility that was identified in Harper’s as Camp No, and that the Associated Press later reported was called Penny Lane by the CIA. Scott seemed conflicted by his experience at Guantánamo but didn’t say why.

He also made detailed claims to me about the content of the 2004 CIA Office of the Inspector General’s report on the “enhanced” interrogation program. These claims included that the CIA was using unauthorized tactics and that, according to the CIA’s Office of Medical Services, the health effects on the detainees were more severe than had been admitted. Scott’s claims have largely been confirmed by public disclosures since his death in 2008, including by reporting in Harper’s.

2. The Gerwehr emails point to close liaising between the CIA, the White House science officer, the Department of Defense, and senior leadership figures of the APA. Why are these behind-the-scenes discussions with a professional organization important?

American health-professional associations play a crucial regulatory role on the national level through the amendment and interpretation of their ethics codes. The APA ethics code, for example, is the basis of some or all of the state licensure standards for psychologists in more than thirty states. Thus, the APA ethics code and the policies that interpret it have a direct impact on the roles into which the U.S. government, the country’s largest employer of psychologists, can deploy psychologists.

Historically, professional associations vigorously assert their autonomy in setting their own ethics. The fact that the APA secretly allowed the CIA to assist in revising its ethics policies on whether psychologists could participate in interrogation is much more than the fox simply guarding the hen house. It is like the fox being given a white coat and becoming a fully licensed USDA poultry inspector.

I believe the APA’s collaboration with the CIA regarding the Bush-era interrogation program will eventually be recognized as one of the greatest scandals in the history of American medical ethics. Ethics educators will eventually teach about the APA’s co-option by the U.S. intelligence community in a similar way to how students are now taught about the Tuskegee experiments in the mid-twentieth century.

3. Are these dealings consistent with the statements the APA has made on this subject?

No. The revelations in James Risen’s book based on the Gerwehr emails directly contradict years of public statements by the APA. Let me give you two examples.

In 2011, Melba Vasquez, then the APA president, said that it “has been falsely asserted that the APA colluded with the Bush administration in the harmful detention and interrogation practices of the ‘War on Terror.’” We now know for a fact that the APA literally invited the CIA and the White House in the immediate aftermath of the Abu Ghraib scandal to meet about how APA ethics policy related to national security.

in full:http://harpers.org/blog/2014/10/the-apa-grapples-with-its-torture-demons-six-questions-for-nathaniel-raymond/

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
17. You're most welcome and thank you for the thread...critically important news.
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 10:36 AM
Jul 2015

What occurred must not be overlooked and washed over as, oh well..that's
war for ya.

The entire premise was criminal.



Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
19. It is wrong to not go after the top, I agree.
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 11:09 AM
Jul 2015

I always hope those two live a very long life just in case the political winds
change..no statute of limitations on death caused by torture. Justice for
all the victims, and a warning to any future administration....think twice
before going outside the law.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
32. Excellent post and OP. It's important we don't let this slide.
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 06:04 PM
Jul 2015

Last edited Sun Jul 12, 2015, 02:10 PM - Edit history (1)

Jim Mitchell and Bruce Jessen collected some $81 million for signing off on torture tactics to provide the thin veneer of responsibility the Bush administration wanted. They sold their ethics, and our collective soul as a country, and inflicted tremendous damage.

This is the essence of corruption -- something is known to be "wrong," but a few dollars here and some hastily re-written rules there, and everything is "legal." It doesn't look like Bush or Cheney are ever going to pay for the warcrimes, but if we do absolutely nothing about this, we are all giving tacit consent to atrocities committed in our name.











Edited to replace DOD pseudonyms for the real names of the offenders.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
40. Thanks. Fixed. -- switched that around twice and still got it wrong.
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 02:08 PM
Jul 2015

Piece I was looking at kept going back and forth between the pseudonyms and the real names.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
42. We have to reject this now, or it becomes
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 02:44 PM
Jul 2015

tacitly acceptable. That's what galls so much about the "look forward / history doesn't matter" drumbeat apologists trot out over these issues. It's not about putting the toothpaste back in the tube.

We have to make it clear it wasn't right, or we are saying that it WAS.

Solly Mack

(90,775 posts)
43. I agree. Pretending it was some long ago event and that it's too late or too much trouble
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 03:08 PM
Jul 2015

to hold anyone accountable is beyond cowardly.

You're right. Without accountability, America is saying it was OK for the U.S. to torture. And accountability is not saying we tortured some folks - it's putting the guilty in prison.

You don't torture people to death and then just say 'Oops', which is basically all America has done, so far. And the fact that some people are OK with that is sickening.



BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
37. AMEN!!!!
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 08:19 PM
Jul 2015

We should hunt every single one down like Nazi officers. Never let them have a moment's peace.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
5. It takes a professional association to call out torture
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 10:08 PM
Jul 2015

Well, whatever works, I suppose.

It would be a lot better for the United States, its international standing, and its credibility in the world community if we prosecuted our own war crimes and crimes against humanity. Instead, we seem content to let others do this dirty work for us. Shameful.

CharlotteVale

(2,717 posts)
11. A year ago Obama said he understood why "we tortured some folks" -
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 11:54 PM
Jul 2015

and that "some" of the torturers were "real patriots."

Maybe a few token doctors will lose their jobs but nothing will ever happen to Bush or Cheney.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
21. And banned torture, because it "crossed a line"...
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 03:28 PM
Jul 2015

But yeah- "they're all the same".
Read it here all the time.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
26. Just wanted to give your post the context it was missing- but if you don't care about ending torture
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 04:21 PM
Jul 2015

That's fine too. Let's not pretend that is your priority, since you avoid the topic.

CharlotteVale

(2,717 posts)
29. You're doing nothing of the kind. You're putting words in my mouth
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 04:31 PM
Jul 2015

in the most egregiously dishonest way. I'm not going to defend myself from such bullshit. Welcome to my ignore list.

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
28. Because: "it is important for us not to feel too sanctimonious in retrospect
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 04:27 PM
Jul 2015

about the tough job that those folks had,” Obama said.
“And a lot of those folks were working hard under enormous pressure and are real patriots.”

(from: http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/politicsnow/la-pn-obama-torture-20140801-story.html )

noise

(2,392 posts)
44. There has been a hard sell
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 03:19 PM
Jul 2015

on the notion that the torture program was implemented in good faith. There is no evidence that supports this. Just stupid talking points. Tough on terror.

Only a jackass would suggest that putting human beings in boxes is somehow a valid interrogation method. The politicians have no shame.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
39. The order givers AND followers...
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 09:50 PM
Jul 2015

should all be punished. Of course, we will just go after some sacrificial goats.

donna123

(182 posts)
20. Please note these were psychologists, not psychiatrists
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 12:33 PM
Jul 2015

Psychiatrists are MDs, psychologists are not and from what I understand the official psychiatry association, I forget their name, completely denounced/refused to have anything to do with this crap. So these weren't really doctors, not in the sense of being MDs. PhDs maybe. But it's good that the APA investigated this.

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
23. DU's had a lot of articles on the APA's repeated (and failed) efforts to vote against torture
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 03:49 PM
Jul 2015

'07 and (I think) '14

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
31. Public and professional defrocking
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 05:56 PM
Jul 2015

followed by life imprisonent seems like an appropriate punishment.

 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
33. Don't hold your breath. This is why USA refuses the International Criminal Court's
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 06:17 PM
Jul 2015

authority anywhere in its sphere (except when it suits).

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
34. Wonderful - war criminals no matter what country they are from should face punishment. We
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 06:22 PM
Jul 2015

agreed to the Geneva Conventions and bush and company had no business ignoring them.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Pssssssst! US torture do...