Why marriage?

[whatchamacallit]

Why is it so important? Will it always be? Are there viable alternatives?...

I'm obviously familiar with the traditional, non-emotional, advantages of marriage; team survival, societal building block, structured environment for child rearing, legal status promoted and imparted by government for taxes, healthcare, inheritence... It sounds like I answered my own question, but most of the advantages relate to our current perception of the institution. All the recent brouhaha on DU over the latest evolution of marriage has me wondering if it's possible for something to evolve to a point where it is barely recognizable compared to its original form. And if so, would it maintain its usefulness and desirability, even as an expression of love?

Now before anybody gets bent, understand I believe consenting adults should be free to love whomever they please, and members of loving unions should be able to honor, celebrate, and formalize their unions in the manner they see fit. I don't ask because I occupy a particular position on the shape or scope of marriage, my questions are mainly theoretical. I'm interested in your thoughts.

[whatchamacallit]

1. I'm starting to realize I have a "talent" for creating OPs that are

incomprehensible, pointless, or both.

[geek tragedy]

2. marriage is the union of two people who commit to each other and promise

to put the other first.

that's a pretty stable arrangement

[whatchamacallit]

3. Right

but it has changed its purpose and over history. Can you be so certain of its definition?

[geek tragedy]

4. that is its current definition.

it's been a lot more stable than our other institutions--over time it's become democratized so that there is true equality between spouses, and it's available without discrimination.

but the same gist of commitment and dedication is still there.

[whatchamacallit]

7. I guess I'm curious about the continuing struggle to participate in a ritual

steeped in inequality and superstition. I wonder if someday people will reject it for something else because of the control and baggage historically associated with it.

[geek tragedy]

8. every human institution is steeped in inequality and superstition.

But, they have been upgraded, and redeemed, throughout history.

Marriage is a very good example, though there is still work to be done everywhere on that count.

Improving it doesn't mean erasing the good parts of it.

[whatchamacallit]

14. Fair enough

Thanks.

[ladyVet]

17. Well, back in the day, marriage was simply a legal contract.

It transferred property, offered women legal protections and security, and legalized the parentage of any offspring. The church wasn't even involved in it at first.

Now it's back to being a legal contract. All is good.

[Igel]

19. Back in what day?

The church wasn't involved in it at first. Most of the "legal" bits you mention were societal traditions and customs. But the real purpose was a public statement that the two people were uniting--making a new family and sanctioning what they did behind closed doors. It also connoted a sense of permanence that would be enforced by the community: To split up would be a disgrace and dishonor, and often the community might disallow you or impose serious constraints on when it might be allowed.

Screw your girlfriend and get her pregnant, and she's disgraced and you might be forced to get married or one or both might be killed. And who knows who the father might be; the father could just say, "Not mine." Because if the girl slept with some other guy he had no claim on her.

Have the ceremony and screw your girlfriend, it's fine. If there's a kid, the presupposition is that there's loyalty and the kid is his.

The church got involved in some areas before any kind of legal apparatus grew around marriage. In others, the order of events was reversed.

[treestar]

27. No fault divorce

It is not all that stable.

[PowerToThePeople]

5. I think marriage in its current form

is a conservative structure. I think it will likely change or lose any significance in the future.

[whatchamacallit]

13. Yeah

that's what I'm wondering.

[GummyBearz]

26. Can this happen sooner rather than later?

And can alimony be done away with... I need out, but paying 100K+partial wages for life is worse, arg

[PowerToThePeople]

29. I think you would probably be grandfathered in to old ways

I envision a tax system which treats all citizens equally. Maybe a method where the minor gets a tax credit instead of a parent. Obviously the child's custodian would possibly manage those funds. I do not like the idea of trying to shape societal norms through the tax structure. Get to the point where it is the norm to have a living will and/or power of attorney document for everyone stating who is able to make decisions in certain circumstances. Get away from the whole marriage thing as a legal contract with benefits and repercussions.

[SheilaT]

6. There are many legal and financial benefits

of being married. Social Security benefits are one. Being able to get a continued pension after a spouse dies. Inheritance. Even if there is very little to inherit.

I keep on knowing people who blissfully refused to get married, lived together for many years, and now one has died, intestate meaning with no will, and everything is a mess.

There are good reasons to get married, which is why gay marriage is so important.

Any sort of plural marriage creates a host of other problems, and my personal opinion is that it should not be legal.

[whatchamacallit]

10. Yes

I mentioned the legal advantages in the OP, but I'm curious about how many changes the institution can undergo before it loses purpose. Do you feel we've reached the final evolution of marriage?

[SheilaT]

15. If by final evolution you mean

two adults married to each other, the gender makeup unimportant, then maybe.

But marriage isn't going to go away, not so long as we have the various rules I referred to above.

Example: I was married for 28 years, it ended in divorce. I am now 66, he is 62, and I have just filed for the Social Security spousal benefit I'm entitled to at this point. It will be half of what his benefit would be when he turns 66. Doesn't matter if he files earlier than that or waits until age 70. Meanwhile, I can delay collecting my own Social Security until I'm 70, and that amount will be more than the spousal amount. Had we never married, I'd never be able to collect this, and I can certainly use the money.

This is just one of many things where getting married makes a positive difference.

If we legitimize any sort of plural marriage, all of these things will get incredibly complicated. I suppose the best way to look at this is to see how those various dissident polygamist groups handle such things. What happens when a man with a bunch of wives dies? How do all those widows and orphaned children manage? Not well, I suspect.

[ladyVet]

18. This is a very important thing many women don't know about.

Last year my aunt was told about being able to collect SS using her ex-husband's account, which brought her nearly $500 more a month, which she direly needed.

My mother is currently under her own SS account, but plans to switch to my father's once he passes. He is 85 and still working, so his fund grows every year, while she only collects a small amount because there were a lot of years she didn't work (home with us kids) and only worked low-paying textile jobs.

I intend to file under my ex's account, because he is still working, while I have been unemployed for several years, and was mostly a stay-at-home mom and wife during our marriage (his choice). He also never paid a cent in child support, so I figure he owes me.

[SheilaT]

24. I only recently found out myself,

and got to file at the earliest possible age I could qualify, given our respective ages.

I am fortunate in that I have other financial resources, but this extra sum will be very helpful. I was likewise a stay home mom most of our marriage. I'd worked for more than ten years before, and returning to work, only for a few years, has made an enormous difference in what my own Social Security will be.

I understand that there are people who are unable to work, but for many women who were out of the workforce for many years, it would probably be a huge benefit to work, if only for a few years, and even if not making huge sums of money. You want to get rid of as many of those years of zero income as possible, and meanwhile you are earning money.

[Starry Messenger]

9. It's fun.

I like being married.

I've been with my husband for nearly 20 years, we've been married for two years.

Nothing much about our actual relationship has changed, except for our tax status, but it's nice to look over and know that this person took an extra step to formalize our relationship.

It has an important role in present society. Lots of things may evolve in the future, but marriage is important now. The only bruhaha was from the right-wing, who claimed that extending the same rights to LGBT people was some vast distortion of the institution. It isn't. It doesn't change it at all: a right was recognized, as it should have been.

[whatchamacallit]

12. Thanks

I like your answer.

[KamaAina]

11. Because... just think of the children!

[randome]

16. I came out of my divorce pretty well so I'm not bitter but, looking back...

...I really don't see the need for marriage. I don't see the need for children. (I have twin daughters who adore me as much as I adore them.) The only reason I went through with a wedding is the usual one: I thought it was expected of me.

I wish there was some way to get the message through to younger people that they don't need to 'settle' for anyone and lead a typically boring life of a mortgage and an SUV and all the rest.

There is a world to explore out there. And I'm not talking about sex.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[WestCoastLib]

21. Did you mean to write that?

I don't see the need for children. (I have twin daughters who adore me as much as I adore them.)

I'm not trying to be rude in case there is a typo here, or you didn't mean it to come out this way. However, as a parent myself, I want to give you the opportunity to re-read these two sentences and decide if you want to keep it as written. Sometimes the written word is not a great representation of our thoughts.

The two sentences you wrote here don't suggest that your twin daughters and you adore each other at all, despite the fact that the word "adore" is written in them.

[bravenak]

32. I also love my daughters and still see no reason to have children.

Not having children is perfectly normal and Works for some people. If I had no children I would still have other people's kids to love and could give them back and be free to live as I please. I wish more people would not have children. I have family who breed like rabbits and always need something from the rest of us and try to pawn the kids off on anybody who will take them. I wish they would have seen no need for children, even though they obviously love them. Kids are hard work.

[EuroStyleSocialist]

20. I'm a gay, late middle-aged, gentleman who never "yearned" to be married

I liked Jessica Lange's response regarding her unmarried relationship with Sam Shepherd where she quoted Lillian Hellman (describing her relationship with Dashell Hammet): "We're together because we bring each other pleasure."

(I'm paraphrasing and probably misspelling.)

But I've been with my partner for 20 years and married (in Massachusetts!) for 11. I think having the option is important, politically. If people decide to pursue other paths, redefine what it all means - I'm all in favor. Two of my best straight friends have been together 20+ years and have no desire to get married or have children (though they've done the important paperwork to make sure each is taken care of). I love that!

[seveneyes]

22. It is only a legal construct

That is all ...

[mythology]

23. All things evolve.

But yes, it maintains usefulness given all the socio-economic benefits that go along with it like living longer, being healthier, being more likely to raise well-adjusted kids out of poverty etc.

It's morphed from being a way to pass down property and solidify family relationships often without input from the couple. It's morphed from being a way to control women, or that guaranteed the man right to her body without consent (marital rape laws).

[panader0]

25. I tried it three times

Three divorces
Three strikes and you're out

[jonno99]

30. I get a chuckle from Rod's maxim: "Instead of getting married again, I'm going to

Last edited Wed Jul 8, 2015, 11:03 AM - Edit history (1)

find a person I don't like and just give them a house."

(quote edited for inclusion)

[tazkcmo]

28. It's the leading cause of divorce.

So said some comedian a number of years ago. I agree.

[Skittles]

31. it's not for me

I could never get past the part where you had to put up with one person.....forever

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

33. I see modern marriage almost exclusively as a legal arrangement for the security of children

In the absence of children born or planned, I just don't see a whole lot of point. Other than the fact it annoys our parents (who want their big day) the fact that me and my longtime girlfriend haven't married has a minimal effect on out lives.