US Women’s Soccer World Cup Win Comes Despite Huge Inequalities

[niyad]

US Women’s Soccer World Cup Win Comes Despite Huge Inequalities


The United States’ women’s soccer team defeated Japan this weekend in an impressive and fast-paced game, bringing home the championship trophy for the first time in 16 years. But despite national and international celebration, disparities in coverage, respect, and pay still linger between women’s and men’s soccer teams.



. . . . . . .


Even so, feminists have been noting the differences between coverage of last year’s men’s World Cup in Brazil and this year’s tournament in Canada. The months of in-depth coverage leading up to the men’s World Cup last year dramatically overshadows the limited coverage of the women’s cup, which mostly focused on the last two weeks of the tournament.

As Maggie Mertens wrote for the Atlantic, “The gender inequities in sports are just as vast as those faced by women in corporate offices and on movie sets, but for some reason they fail to incite the same level of outrage.” There is a massive pay gap between male and female professional athletes. In this tournament alone the ************US world champions of the women’s World Cup will earn collectively $15 million- a stark difference from the $576 million earned collectively by the US men’s team, who lost in the first round of the tournament last year.*********
. . . . .




Indeed, Fox Sports- the primary United States carrier of the FIFA World Cup- had to expand its coverage of the tournament with 30 additional hours of programming, including expanded pre- and post-game coverage, due to unprecedented demand for coverage of this championship match. The increase in programming is promising, although we are far from parity; a new report by researchers from USC and Purdue University found that ESPN’s coverage of sports news through program SportsCenter only gave 2% airtime to women in 2014.

A group of more than 40 leading women’s soccer players have recently filed a lawsuit against FIFA for gender-based discrimination, specifically citing FIFA and the Canadian Soccer Association (CSA) decisions to have the women’s tournament played on artificial turf as opposed to a grass field. Those filing the lawsuit call artificial turf an “inferior surface,” and cite the increased risk of injury and significant temperature difference on the field that artificial turf creates. In this World Cup, the artificial turf brought temperatures on the field to up to 120 degrees. Every men’s World Cup since 1930 has been played on natural grass, while most women’s World Cup matches, as well as the next six scheduled, are slated to be played on artificial turf.


http://feminist.org/blog/index.php/2015/07/06/usa-womens-soccer-wins-despite-huge-inequalities/

[davidn3600]

1. The 2014 Mens World Cup brought in $1.4 billion in revenue

The numbers for this woman's world cup are still coming in, but it won't be anywhere in the ballpark of a $1.4 billion dollars. Not even close. Women also didn't play as much as the men. The men's tournament was 64 matches. This woman's tournament was 52 matches.

At the core of the problem is women's sports just doesn't have the popularity around the world that men's sports do. The attendance for this women's world cup was 1.3 million. Last year the men got 4.3 million. 900 million watched the men's final last year. Only about 70 million watched the women's final in 2011.
Compared to other sports...this women's world cup won't even bring in the money that Floyd Mayweather won in the fight against Manny Pacquao. Mayweather got $200 million for that fight. Why? Because that's how popular it was. And a lot of stupid people were willing to pay $100 to watch it. But the point is that professional athletes get paid based on the revenues they create. NFL players are paid based on a percentage of revenues the league brings in. Men's sports also bring in tons and tons of sponsors and advertisers. And FIFA deals out a percentage of that revenue to the prize money.

A deeper problem is women are not recognized as athletes in many countries. Third would countries especially have this issue and they devote any resources they have for sports to the men. Notice in the Olympics, on the women's side the medals are dominated by women in North America, Europe, and Russia. A woman in a non-industrialized country doesn't stand a chance against western female athletes unless she trains in another country.

Now, the artificial turf and the issues with the hotels may be legit complaints. But a lot of that was due to the Canadian organizers. FIFA only approves much of that stuff and doesn't micromanage it. For what it is worth, FIFA has already said the 2019 women's tournament will be on grass.

Simply giving men and women equal prize money also doesn't solve gender problems. Then you have the issue like in Tennis where they say women are getting equal pay for less work. (In tennis women play only 3 sets while the men play 5). It was also announced this year at Wimbledon that women can have a heat break when the temperature gets high, but men cannot. So there are debates in that sport as well.
Plus as of now, the women's world cup does not generate enough revenue to pay women the same amount of prize money. Which means FIFA would be running the tournament in the red in order to meet equality. It's the same thing a lot of colleges are forced to do because of Title IX. The men's football program ends up financing the women's sports. Although this provides women athletic opportunity, it does not increase the draw to women's sports.

FIFA is also a very corrupt organization and would surprise no one if there are sexists in their ranks. But no matter what they do they can't magically solve the issue of women's sports not being as popular as men around the world. If they and the media devote more time and people don't watch, they lose money. In the end, professional sports is about money. It's all about money. If women drew in the kind of dollars that men do, all these gender disparities in sports would evaporate. You got to find ways to increase people's interest in women's sports, not just in the United States but around the world.

[niyad]

2. right on schedule.

[Skittles]

3. yup

funny how they never see how sexism itself produces such disparities

[niyad]

4. that would require actually engaging the gray matter.

[Skittles]

5. doesn't sail just a bit over their tiny pinheads

it's in the stratosphere

[niyad]

8. it is indeed.

[GumboYaYa]

64. If a man said anything similar to this about a woman he would be excoriated for being a misogynist

pig. And it would be correct to do so. Why is it okay for you to say these things about men with whom you disagree?

[Skittles]

75. aw you poor thang

need some cheese?

[Ex Lurker]

21. Okay, I'll bite. How do you propose this disparity be remedied?

And where will the revenue come from to remedy it? Specifics, please.

[davidn3600]

23. You wont get an answer

Feminists think that sexism in soccer is based on some big misogynist kingpin in FIFA and ESPN that is dictating that men get all the money and attention and women get nothing. That's what they think the problem is. Which is stupid because FIFA is 1000000% money-driven. They would LOVE it if the women's cup made more money.

The truth of the matter is that men sports generate massive amounts of revenue. Women sports barely stay afloat. 90-95% of total revenue in soccer comes from the men's games. That's not FIFA's fault. You need to increase the popularity of women's sports for this to even begin to equalize. People have to want to watch it on TV. People have to buy tickets to these events. Did you know FIFA was selling tickets to the early matches in this world cup for $5 a seat? And they still were not selling out! If it was a men's tournament those tickets would have been sold out months in advance and cost a fortune.

I'd be interested in hearing solutions too. How to do get millions of people around the world to suddenly start watching the women's world cup?

[shaayecanaan]

33. Why doesn't mens' fashion get the attention that womens' fashion does?

and why isn't FIFA addressing this?

[bettyellen]

45. You think feminists blame this on "one kingpin"? Where the hell did you get that idea?

It's pretty much the opposite of what "feminists think". Educate yourself before yammering on next time, because that shit is crazy.

[davidn3600]

59. Read the article in the OP's post

The blame is being put on FIFA and advertisers. The article is only comparing prize money to try to whip up some kind of gender firestorm and it ignores other very, very important statistics explaining why there is a disparity in prize money.

I understand the ratings show that a woman's final is getting slightly more viewers in the USA than a man's round of 16 match a year ago. That doesn't mean much because first off, most Americans hate soccer. That sport has traditionally struggled in this country for both women and men. And second, the USA is only 5% of the world. The men's final last year was watched by nearly a BILLION people world-wide. That's 1/6th of the world population! How many watched the women's final globally? 70 million or so? The Super Bowl does better than that.

You want women to get equal prize money when it is men who are drawing in 95% of the total revenue globally? What makes you think that's fair? Do the women deserve equal money? Of course they do. But that's not how professional sports works. A professional athlete gets money based on the revenue you generate. If the women gained more popularity on a global scale, more advertisers and sponsors will throw money in. More spectators will throw money in. And there will be more prize money to throw around.

The problem is social and cultural. FIFA can't fix the reasons cultures around the world don't view female athletes equal to male athletes. FIFA can't change social stereotypes in every country on the globe. And perhaps a better question that needs to be asked is: where are the women fans? You look at the stands of a WNBA game and it's mostly men in the stands! Why aren't female fans out there supporting other women? Men go to games to watch other men play. Men go to games to watch women play. Women seem to be very casual sports fans who don't get anywhere near as passionate about competition that men do. Why is that relevant? Because passionate sports fans SPEND MONEY! Men will spend tons of money on their sports teams. Men buy hats, shirts, jerseys, and fly to the other side of the country to watch their team in person. That's a big reason men's sports brings in such a massive amount of money.

[bettyellen]

72. So it's not because of one kingpin. It's because it's the status quo. No shit.

[Cassidy1]

83. You said:

"You look at the stands of a WNBA game and it's mostly men in the stands! Why aren't female fans out there supporting other women? Men go to games to watch other men play. Men go to games to watch women play."

It's actually however, mostly women in the stands at WNBA:

By core markets, Wright means first and foremost women. Team surveys, he said, show that 78 percent of fans at Lynx games are female.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/8/29/wnba-hoop-skillsnotenoughforwomenasteams.html

This matches the stats back in the 1990s. The game I went to had mostly women. If you watch on TV, then you hear the distinct sound of women cheering.

[BreakfastClub]

94. That's fascinating. So "feminists" are a group you don't belong to, I gather.

And feminists all think the same thought, like a swarm of bees. And what they think, according to you, is something ridiculous. I note that you are also completely oblivious that your criticism is a straw man argument. But that doesn't matter, does it? Feminists think this singular thought, according to you, and it is idiotic...because you said so, right? First you decide what all feminists think and then proceed to ridicule them based on a thought you made up in the first place. Wow. Am I on a progressive site or not? Perhaps not, because from what I've seen, this line of thinking is common and very much accepted at the DU. It seems like it's the feminists who have trouble around here.

By the way, do you want to know why not as many people watch women's world cup? It's call SEXISM, by which the culture devalues women's sports and women's achievements in general. THAT is 100% the reason why not as many people watch. The solution is to value women as much as men in our society. And how do we place "value" in our society? Hmmm. Money, perhaps?? But you know those stupid single-thought feminists, always thinking their one stupid thought about equality.

[erpowers]

98. Make Some Changes

Just because FIFA is supposedly money driven does not mean it will fight for women to make more money. It is very possible that FIFA only has a Women's World Cup because it has to have a women's cup. The leadership of FIFA may thinks women's sports are silly.

If they really wanted women to make more money they could probably spend more time promoting the Women's World Cup. The Men's World Cup is promoted months before it starts. According to numerous articles, the Women's World Cup only received a few weeks of promotion. One writer pointed out that most of her family members were not even aware that there was a World Cup this year. Maybe if FIFA promoted the Women's World Cup more before it started more people would buy tickets. Maybe US Soccer needs to promote women's soccer more. They could try to promote the Women's World Cup years in advance. Also, they could try to connect with people who might want to attend the even, or watch the games at home, or at watch parties. Maybe they should setup a website that tells people where they can attend watch parties. Maybe they could then send out tweets sending people to the website.

Did FIFA do a good job of informing people of the price of the tickets? Did US Soccer do a good job informing people there were still tickets? Is it at all possible that many people just assumed the tickets were too expensive, or that the games much have already sold out and decided not to try to buy tickets?

Already more and more people are watching the Women's World Cup. More people watched this year's Women's World Cup than the 2011 Women's World Cup. It was reported that more people watched the Women's World Cup final than any game of the NBA finals. Maybe FIFA and US Soccer should try to televise more games on Fox instead of Fox Sports 1. Fox Sports 1 is Fox's cable sports channel. If someone does not have cable they cannot watch all of the games of the tournament.

[Starry Messenger]

11. You can set your watch.

[niyad]

14. one can, and one did!

[shaayecanaan]

32. Out of interest

did you turn up to any of the games?

[Threedifferentones]

92. People pay the most to see the best athletes.

The best athletes in the world are men. So, this disparity between the sexes is perhaps the only one that would remain if sexism were gone.

[asturias31]

35. I am as vehement a feminist as Nyad

and I agree with you and her both. Sexism begets lack of interest which begets lack of money, thus less coverage, excitement, and fanaticism, as well as poorer training conditions.

It's also a fact that women on average are less fast and strong than men, so their
sports are usually "second-best" version of the male ones. (However in soccer this shouldn't matter too much - since it's not raw power but flashy skills and brilliant teamwork that are the biggest thrills for viewers.)

But basically it comes down to (simplified version); men mostly watch and talk up men's sports. And women watch and talk about whatever sports their boyfriends and coworkers and classmates are watching and talking about.

I would love to see top female athletes make a good living. But I am much more interested in seeing girls all over the world get to play, instead of being pressed into home duties while their brothers rule the outdoors. National Geo had an article a few months ago about the important place of soccer among African kids; anout charities that donate balls, and how much it means to the kids to be able to play, etc. The whole article was about boys ... without the authors ever bothering to point this out. Half of African kids were simply ignored.

[niyad]

42. welcome to du

[Glassunion]

49. Are you looking at the whole picture?

You say that, "At the core of the problem is women's sports just doesn't have the popularity around the world that men's sports do." You say that the FIFA attendance at the women's matches is only 4x less than the men's. Yet for some reason the prize money is set at 40x less.

Why are salary caps for the US women set at only 15x less of what the men are capped at?

Why the fuck could I not buy a Wambach jersey in a man's size? On a side-note, I'm apparently a Large in Women's, but my stomach shows if I raise my arms.

Why the hell would the 32nd ranked (biggest loser) team in men's take home 4x what the 1st ranked team in women's did?

Could it all simply be part of a bitter cycle?
1. If women's soccer is "seen" as a lesser moneymaker
2. It will be ignored in media and merchandising deals
3. Given less dramatic coverage
4. Given less airtime
5. Go to Step 1

Ignore the fact that last Sunday had the highest ratings of any soccer match ever broadcast in US history.

[The2ndWheel]

50. Then it's up to the people to break that cycle

Increase the demand for women's sports, giving owners an ability to create leagues and teams and raise ticket, ad, and TV prices, and women will be able to demand an increase in pay.

[Travis_0004]

76. Step 1 has to start with more interest

If people show interest, there will be more matches, more advertising and more revenue.

People buying tickets is not where the money is, TV and advertising revenue. The mens world cup had 12 times the TV audience as the womens world cup, and generated billions in revenue. The women's world cup can't come close to those numbers.

Sure maybe it is a cycle, but are we going to hold 800 million people at gunpoint and force them to watch.

And yes the ratings in the US were off the charts. Globally it was a drop in the bucket compared to the mens world cup.

[Glassunion]

95. Where did you get the 12x number?

I'd be interested.

[Travis_0004]

97. The mens world cup had 900 million viewers

The womens world cup had 70 million

[Glassunion]

102. I hadn't realized that the rating numbers from all nations were out.

Would you have a link? Thanks.

[Snow Leopard]

74. yikes

facts and logic!!!! eeek!

[Orrex]

6. How might this be addressed?

[KamaAina]

53. Tennis has come as close as any sport

I believe some of the majors now offer equal purses.

[Orrex]

55. I believe you, but I'm not a sports guy, so I don't know first-hand

How was this accomplished with tennis?

Part of this is timing, I suspect. Women's soccer falls entirely off the national radar except during the World Cup and the Olympics, whereas tennis is ongoing throughout the year with multiple big-name matchups. That makes it easier to stay in the public eye.

However, one coworker made an observation that hadn't occurred to me; he prefers to watch women's soccer rather than men's, because he says that men's soccer tends to be bogged down by histrionic, hyper-dramatic dives and foul-drawing, whereas the women (as he puts it) "play hard from start to finish."

Now that I think of it, that's rather encouraging for the longterm prospects.

[Glassunion]

56. I agree with your coworker...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6948640

[ProfessorGAC]

57. They Do

However, tennis is a game based upon precision (i suppose we can say that about golf too). So, even though many of the women are strong and can power the serve, the 20 or 30 mph difference in the serve makes for better rallies as there are fewer aces and service winners.

The result is that the women's game can be MORE entertaining to watch than the men's game, especially on grass and hard surface.

The women in tennis get huge money like the men because people watch. People watch because the game played by the women is at least, if not more, fun to watch.

It could apply to golf because bigger, faster, stronger has nothing to do with hitting a wedge or making a putt. I suppose there is some attraction to the booming drive of 350 yards that no professional woman player is hitting. But, at least 50%, probably more, of the game isn't affected by size or strength.

Not sure how this would apply to something like basketball, or soccer, or baseball/softball. There simply is a difference in size, speed and strength.

I guess my point is that tennis was ready made for it to be more gender equitable because the nature of the game is such that watching two world class women play a match is just as interesting, maybe moreso, than watching two world class men play.

[trinidad]

7. Last year

the man coaching our women's team sought donations on social media for his team's trip. The officials in Trinidad covering the expenses insisted they had it covered all along, but I think he gave them some unwanted publicity.

Men are more popular in T&T and it's really that way everywhere. Men are faster, can kick the ball harder, etc. The women are good and I'm not dumb enough to compete with them, but they don't command the same audience as men. People here go crazy for men's football because it's just better and more fun to watch. It's based on audience and you can't make people watch.

[Skittles]

9. "it's really that way everywhere"

in large part DUE TO SEXISM

you have no idea how popular women's sports could be if give ample opportunities - perhaps the dominant AUDIENCE would be women (who ARE over half the population)

[trinidad]

15. I see women given the opportunity, but people still watch the men.

Women in t&t love watching the men more. I see it in the states also. Not sure what you mean by sexism. People watch based on quality and talent. People are paid based on the audience. The Olympics pit the best against the best. Ato was the most popular runner because he was the fastest. The best.

[Skittles]

16. the irony, it burns

[bettyellen]

54. Yep, when women's basketball came to NYC a friend got me tickets and my brother - who loves the

Sport- but has soured on how the style of play has changed over the last thirty years - just loved it.
He's tired of the whole star system in the NBA and how it discourages teamwork and strategy.
He really prefers college ball now but said they were amazing players.
I think when your watching, you can totally forget that men can achieve greater "feats of strength" because it's got it's own playing field, so to speak.

Interesting how people think men deserve more because they're bigger and stronger- but not necessarily more skilled. That's a metaphor for life, really. And it sucks.

[Cassidy1]

70. I saw the New York women WNBA around 1997 or 1998.

I really went because I had never been inside Madison Square Garden.
The triangle offense is actually the epitome of strategy and teamwork. Stars like Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan perfected it to multiple titles. You don't get the triangle or anything remotely close to it in college or any other level of play.
Even if you don't have the triangle, the team that wins must use extraordinary teamwork and efficiency. Greg Popovich (San Antonio, NBA) coaching is the pinnacle of teamwork and relatively humble guys who get the job done. Guys like Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker have played together for years, winning multiple titles when LA or Chicago did not win. Golden State won the championship with a great offense that moves the ball well.

[Ex Lurker]

22. The opportunities are there

the WNBA is in most major cities, and the games are on ESPN. The ratings are miniscule compared to men's basketball. Look in the stands at the men's games. There are large numbers of women. Spectator sports are discretionary activities. People will watch what they want to watch, and you can't force them to watch something else.

[Skittles]

24. the opportunities are just getting traction

[Ex Lurker]

25. I agree

and when more product is demanded, more opportunities will present themselves. Meanwhile, you can't manufacture demand that isn't there. If there's not enough revenue to cover the increase in salaries that the article in the OP says the players deserve, someone will have to cover the deficit. I haven't seen any suggestions as to who is supposed to do that, and for how long.

[Skittles]

26. check this out

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/womens-world-cup-final-has-record-tv-ratings/

[Ex Lurker]

28. It's a start NT

[Skittles]

29. I just think too many people have no clue what the actual results of pervasive sexism can be

I still remember being appalled in high school that the girls seemed to want to be cheerleaders more than they wanted to play sports - now THAT is sickening

[Ex Lurker]

30. Cheer is a sport now, and is sort of like choreographed gymnastics

They even have teams that don't actually cheer at games, and just do competitions. It's pretty dangerous, too. IIRC it's the high school sport with the second highest injury rate, behind football.

[Skittles]

31. yeah, when it is not titillation for men

I think it is bullshit

[Skittles]

39. I am not going to debate the merits of CHEERLEADING

WASTE OF TIME

[Travis_0004]

106. Who are you to tell somebody what is a waste of their time????

Some people (even guys) want to be cheerleaders, who are you to tell them they are wrong.

On a personal level, I hated soccer. Too me showing up to play soccer would be a waste of my time, so I never joined a soccer team. My love was always baseball. If somebody else loves cheerleading, then why not just allow everybody to do what they enjoy.

[LittleBlue]

17. The men's international competition is filled with antifootball and cowardice

Women's international football is better IMHO. We'll be long gone before a men's WC final sees seven goals.

[trinidad]

19. The average number of goals in match is about three.

A 5-2 game with seven goals is pretty much considered a blowout.

[Glassunion]

52. I'm going to respectfully disagree...

I disagree that men's football is better.

Put two matches up against each other, and you will find that the women play harder for the entire match. To me, it appears that the men play the match very hard for about the last 10 to 15 minutes of play, where the women go all in from the moment they hit the pitch.

Another thing. Women don't throw a phony dive anywhere near as much as men do...


To me, overall women's football is played harder, by people who seemed more determined to me. As far as the men kicking harder, and running faster. Remember her?

She played on a men's team for a while.

[trinidad]

63. I know what you're saying.

It's like the minor league baseball players who--people say--play harder because they are trying to get to the majors. Maybe so, but I have not seen it. The players at the highest levels still play hard. They have to compete with other teammates. They are looker for a higher salary. And don't forget these guys still want to win at the highest level. They want to win the title and be the best. Also, tere is definitely a talent gap in baseball. There is no comparison for pitching and some other areas.

I also think there is little room for more than league at the highest levels. Competing leagues in American football and basketball don't make it, so they play in Canada or Europe. Just too much competition for audience dollars, and people end up wanting to see the best.

[davidn3600]

66. Those leagues have also been around for a LONG time

The MLB got its roots in the late 19th century. The NFL started in the 1920s. These leagues struggled in the early days. It took decades before they were able to build a following. Franchises failed and/or moved very frequently.

The men's World Cup has been going on for 80+ years now. In comparison, the women have only been doing it for 25 years. And it is the United States and a few European countries that got the woman's game off the ground which might explain why the US women are so dominant in the sport and why it's still lagging in much of the world.

[niyad]

81. and the US women have won three worlds, and the men???? ZERO.

[Lizzie Poppet]

10. I follow the women's game quite avidly.

One rather scandalous illustration of the difference between the men's and women's game in terms of finances is the huge salary gap at the club level. The two pro leagues in the US are MLS (men) and the NWSL (women). For a first-division league, MLS salaries are actually not that high by the standards of most of Europe's first division leagues. They are very low indeed compared to NFL, NBA, MLB, or NHL salaries. But they are about 15 times higher than most NWSL salaries,. The latter are so low that most players in the NWSL can only be considered semi-pros.

Consider, as well, that in terms of the quality of player, the NWSL is actually vastly higher than MLS. MLS is growing and getting better all the time, but it is nowhere near the quality of the English Premier League, Spain's La Liga, and quite a few other countries first division league. The NWSL, on the other hand, has a rather large number of the world's elite female players: Carli Lloyd, Abby Wambach, Jodie Taylor, Megan Rapinoe, Naho Kawasumi, Lisa De Vanna.. One team alone, my beloved Portland Thorns, has Alex Morgan, Christine Sinclair, Nadine Angerer, Tobin Heath, and no less than five other players who were at this World Cup. The NWSL is an elite league...and a big chunk of the non-superstar players make six grand a season. Six grand...I am not making that up.

Now mind you, only the Thorns are profitable, with the league in the middle of its third season. I understand why they teams can't pay a lot...most of them are losing money and the league has to try to survive. But damn near makes me cry that so many of these superb athletes can't even make a living at what they do, despite being world class.

[niyad]

12. thank you for posting this.

[LittleBlue]

13. So long as viewership is dominated by the men, there won't be equality

International soccer is only a tiny piece of the pie. The WC happens every four years. The big money is in league play. Ronaldo and Messi earn between $60 to $75m per year. Women pros make $6k to $30k per year. All that money is salary through their clubs.

Neither men nor women make anything from international football, similar to Olympic athletes. So if you really want to make a difference, find your team and buy league tickets to see the women.

www.nwslsoccer.com

[Snobblevitch]

18. The women's world cup has not even been

in existence for 25 years. It doesn't generate a fraction of the revenue that the men's WC generates. FIFA is corrupt, but they are also not stupid AND they are greedy. When the women's WC is a le to generate more revenue, the prize money will increase.

[Renew Deal]

20. ESPN didn't have rights to the WWC, so they ignored it.

[Skittles]

27. too bad for them

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/womens-world-cup-final-has-record-tv-ratings/

[shaayecanaan]

34. Out of interest

did you watch any of the games?

[akbacchus_BC]

86. No, ESPN had all rights but was not allowed to show the games

on the big screen. What Canada should have done was have the game shown by the waterfront. Instead, ESPN had a fanzone that was covered and could only accommodate a small amount of people.

I know, I live in Vancouver, I went to two games at the stadium and went to the fanzone after one of the games.

[Renew Deal]

88. Fox sports aired the games in the US.

So ESPN didn't have all rights.

[akbacchus_BC]

90. Renew, I agree it was fox news hosting the games,

I had three channels but fox was supposed to show the game live in the fanzone and was not able to. Only clips of the earlier games except for the final game between US and Japan, which was shown at the fanzone!

[PoliticAverse]

38. Looks like "separate isn't equal" again. n/t

[niyad]

40. you have that absolutely correct.

[niyad]

41. . . .

[Glassunion]

43. There are some issues in the numbers.

The US men's team did not not earn $576 million. Not even close. The women's team did not earn $15 million. Not even close. The $575 and $15 million figure is the total payouts to all teams for the tournament. The winners and runners up of course taking a much larger share.

That said, this still really fucking sucks.

Further reading... http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6948063

[geek tragedy]

44. it's symptomatic of the larger economic disparity between the revenue streams

which in turn reflect societal disparities in the amount of resources and interest in developing the men's and women's game. In short, sexism.

This dynamic is in just about every sport, except for tennis, where Serena, Steffi, Martina, etc were just as prominent as men, draw the same money and the same viewership. That and beach volleyball (whose male viewship may not be for the most enlightened reasons . . .)

Sports is going to be a tough place to combat gender inequality, because humans are sexually dimorphic in terms of size and strength. There's a reason there are separate competitions for men and women . . . as opposed to real world work where intelligence, character, personality, education are the main drivers, and where men and women are part of the same effort.

[The2ndWheel]

46. Despite? I don't think that's the right word

Disparities in coverage, respect, and pay between men's and women's teams have nothing to do with the American women beating other women from different countries in the World Cup.

If more people watched women playing sports, women would get paid more to play those sports. They would become a commodity just like male athletes.

[niyad]

47. perhaps you missed this part:

But despite national and international celebration, disparities in coverage, respect, and pay still linger between women’s and men’s soccer teams.

[The2ndWheel]

48. It's easy to put on a USA logo for a few weeks and get some attention

The problem is that that attention doesn't go anywhere after that. It goes a way after a few days, and then comes back years later when another World Cup rolls around. There's no constant attention needed for a constant stream of revenue. Without that revenue, who's paying you to do something?

Women need professional leagues to play in. Leagues need interest to get going. They're out there in some form or fashion. If people start buying tickets, and more games get on TV, then the women playing in those leagues will get more money. If there's no interest for that though, it's not going to happen.

What would help even more is if women could get going in leagues that already exist. I don't believe there's anything stopping a woman from playing in the MLS for example. Other than not being able to keep up with the male athletes in direct competition. But if a GM or coach thinks you can help the team win, you'll be on it, male or female.

[brooklynite]

65. Since the 1999 WWC, there have been two Womens' leagues...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_United_Soccer_Association

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Professional_Soccer

[FBaggins]

51. But that's the same for all of the women's teams.

You can't say that one women's team beat another women's team despite disparities with men's teams.

They brought home the title because on that day they were the best in the world in their sport. Not "despite" anything.

Either way... how about a simple solution? All of the women on the US national team put up their entire compensation (salaries/endorsements/etc.) and all of the men on the US national team put up all of theirs. Then they play one match - winner takes all.

[Glassunion]

58. I'd feel bad for the men on that day.

[FBaggins]

60. Not a chance

I agree with much of your #52 (which is why many would prefer to watch the women's team)... but it's nutty to think that the women would win that match (or even one out of ten if they played over and over). The skill levels are just too different.

There are lots of people who prefer college basketball to the NBA for many of the same reasons that you cite in 52...

... but nobody thinks that one of the final four can take on the NBA champions.

[Glassunion]

62. I've watched both play on many occasion.

I feel that the U.S. Women's team would win against the U.S. Men's team.

We will just disagree.

[FBaggins]

67. If you're more comfortable pretending that it's a matter of opinion... feel free

[Dr. Strange]

69. I don't think the USWNT is there yet.

Back in 2012, the U-17 US Men's Team beat the USWNT 8-2. I think it will be a few years before the national teams can compete against each other well.

Although, should that happen, I wonder if there will be just one team and one World Cup?

[Snow Leopard]

77. As a soccer afficianado put it

the womens game is on par with elite 16-17yr old boys. Hard to judge, but I know when flicking back and forth on a Saturday between the Women's WC and Euro Men's soccer, the quality difference was VERY evident in favour of the men. The women will get better still. I've seen Women's hockey improve tremendously, and can get into watching the very top teams play. After those 2 or 3, it gets tragic though.

[akbacchus_BC]

89. I have to disagree with you. The Women's world cup is nothing

to the under 20 men's world cup. Those girls in this last tournament were fantastic, they earned the right to play. Looking at Sinclair from Canada, the goalie from the US Love Solo (conceded only two) and the Japanese players, one has to be proud of these women. They played beyond my expectations. The game at the stadium between Japan and Netherlands was mind boggling, I was backing Japan but was glad Netherlands got a goal.

[Elwood P Dowd]

71. So a group of teenage males beat the women's team 8-2, but you think

they would still beat the best adult professionals? Now I enjoyed watching the women win the WC, but let's be realistic here.

[Glassunion]

73. It's a little tough to debate

A 17 year old boy is going to be faster than any pro, male or female. Look at 40 times in American Football. The high schoolers put in faster 40 times than when the player reaches college and once pro they slow up even more. Also keep in mind that Wombach played on a men's team when she was that age. I feel (and we are all speculating) that at the senior level they may be closer matched.

[Elwood P Dowd]

78. According to that logic, we should send 16-17 year old kids to the Olympics and World Cup.

They would win it with no trouble.

Glassunion, you need to put down the glass you've been drinking from. Somebody has spiked it.

[Travis_0004]

82. A 17 year old may be faster, but they are not better

The womens soccer team has members that are 30, because they are still the best. Their careers may not last too much longer on a national level, but they are there because they are still better than an 17 year old that also tried out.

17 year old boys can be great at soccer, but they are not better than the current roster. If they were, you would see all 17 year olds.

[FBaggins]

84. The premise was wrong to begin with

17 year olds are not faster (men tend to peak in their early/mid 20s)

More importantly, making that claim destroys the original theory... since the male athletes at the professional level are much faster than the women.

[seveneyes]

61. Appears to be dislocation of mouth and money proximity

Mandatory viewership and ticket purchases may be in order.

[akbacchus_BC]

85. What are the huge inequalities?

To me the US Women's team is a power house of players. They lost to Japan last time and turn around and won. Am so happy for the US Soccer team, they deserved to win, they played well. After they got three goals, Japan went into a tailspin and regrouped, however that was not good enough, be proud of the American team, I am.

[pnwmom]

91. The men are paid far, far, far more than the women. n/t

[Travis_0004]

93. They are also more popular than the women

The mens final had 12x the tv audience as the womens fibal. The mens world cul has billions in sponsorship money.

[pnwmom]

104. Another inequality. n/t

[Travis_0004]

105. So why don't we eliminate mens and womens competition

FIFA will have one world cup every 4 years. No mens division and no womens division.

It might be 99% men, but at least all will have the opportunity to compete on a level playing field.

[akbacchus_BC]

87. Just wanted you to know that the Women's World Cup

Soccer being held in Canada was the best attended ever and Canada is bidding for it again. I was always into the the men's World Cup Soccer and cricket. Man, this Women's World Cup was wonderful and Canada gave the game the best exposure ever.

Looking forward to the PanAm games in Canada starting shortly.

[Bob Sacamano]

96. It's pretty simple

Men's soccer is much more popular than women's soccer. Men's sports are, for the most part, more popular than women's sports. The reason is because men are superior athletes to women. That's not sexist, that's reality.

More people tune into the Men's World Cup, so it generates more revenue, so it pays out more.

The USMNT would absolutely destroy the USWNT.

[alarimer]

99. That is SEXIST.

"better" is highly subject.

The reason we are even talking about this is pervasive SEXISM in all aspects of society. It affects the coverage in the media, it affects who gets funded to play, it affects all aspects of sports in this country. And anybody who denies this is a fucking idiot.

As to your point about more people tuning it, that is factually incorrect. More people tuned into the final game than watched the NHL finals, game 6 of the NBA finals and the men's game against Portugal last year.

You are an idiot and you are spectacularly wrong.

[Bob Sacamano]

100. "Better" is not subjective

Have them play one another. Who wins? The better team, which would be the men.

You aren't comparing apples to apples when you compare World Cup soccer games to American sports leagues. World Cup games are international. FIFA doesn't base anything just on how many Americans tune it. You have to take into account world wide viewership. How'd the women's World Cup final compare to the men's World Cup final, internationally?

[Travis_0004]

103. FIFA cares about global raitings

The mens world cup final often has around 900 million viewers. The womans final had about 90% less, on a global scale.

The women did have more viewers in the US than when the men played Portugal, as they should. They were a great team, and did a great job, but on a global level, raitings were nothing compare to the mens world cup final.