Man removes Confederate flag off the back of truck during traffic

[KamaAina]

http://thegrio.com/2015/07/06/man-removes-confederate-flag-truck-traffic/

Stuck in traffic? Take down a Confederate flag.

It doesn’t sound like a safe thing to do, but that’s exactly what happened in a video circulating throughout social media.

The 13-second clip shows a man running to the back of a freight truck and desperately trying to remove a small Confederate battle flag. The video is set to James Brown’s funk classic “The Payback.”

After repeated attempts, the unidentified man finally gets the flag off the back of the truck.

[randys1]

1. Awesome. I ran into one at 4th celebration with thousands of people, I apologized to

the AfAm woman I was talking to about other stuff.

[longship]

2. Wish the video was longer.

That guy has the right idea. A real hero, IMHO. He has a great idea and pulls it off (pun intended) brilliantly.

[HFRN]

4. there are any number of things that could have gone wrong here

traffic safety is no joke

[DavidDvorkin]

5. He removed something from someone else's property

and we're supposed to cheer?

It doesn't matter how despicable the thing is that he removed. This behavior should be condemned.

[lonestarnot]

6. And suppose someone removed a burning cross from the neighbor's yard? That not alright either?

[DavidDvorkin]

7. It would not be all right if the cross belonged to the neighbor

And the neighbor had set it on fire.

That's the whole point.

[maser]

8. not the same thing

Had it been a rainbow flag, would you still be cheering ??

[Duckhunter935]

27. Probably not

[uppityperson]

133. Are you equating a symbol of bigotry with a symbol of tolerance?

[Humanist_Activist]

137. No, what they are saying is that, to be consistent, you cannot argue that...

ripping a confederate flag from a vehicle is different than someone ripping off a rainbow flag decal.

Got to remember, a lot of people, particularly conservative Christians, think the rainbow flag is anti-Christian.

The point is, the motivations, and rationalizations, don't matter, the actions themselves are wrong.

[uppityperson]

142. I'd like to hear from maser, what they meant. Thank you for telling me what you think they meant

But I'd like to hear from them also.

[oneshooter]

9. So you advocate for theft, whidh is what happened. n/t

[lonestarnot]

41. And how do you know that someone didn't put it on the truck at a previous stop in the same fashion

that it was removed?

[A HERETIC I AM]

91. As someone who has been a trucker for almost 30 years....(Edited)

I can say with almost 100% certainty that it was put on by the owner of the trailer and that person is more than likely NOT the driver.

Edit: OK...I retract the above.

I looked up "Tribe Transportation" and it is a minority owned (Specifically, Native American Woman owned) trucking company. From their website, they do not appear to hire Owner Operators, so the driver doesn't own the trailer, but I find it hard to believe the owner would have placed it on her trailer.

[ladyVet]

124. It may not have been her trailer.

Drivers often pick up loads in whatever trailer is available, not necessarily one that belongs to the company. My brother has done it more than once.

But, bad form to vandalize someone else's property. The flag is loathsome, but people are within their rights as private citizens to display it.

[A HERETIC I AM]

125. It's their trailer alright.

Last edited Wed Jul 8, 2015, 04:05 AM - Edit history (1)

They are too small to let their trailers be used by another carrier.

A bit more poking around on their website and it kind of looks like they are using the woman as a figurehead for the tax advantage. The 2nd in command is her husband. In other words, it is a bunch of Georgia good ol' boys running things.

Based in Georgia, north of Atlanta, outside Gainesville.

The company probably put it on the trailer.

[Travis_0004]

30. A burning cross prevents a danger

If I saw one on my neighbors yard, I would put it out. I do not want the fire to spread to my yard.

[Spatened]

19. Agreed...

[RichGirl]

24. civil disobedience is a good thing

[DavidDvorkin]

32. This is not civil disobedience

This is vandalism of someone's private property.

[BlueJazz]

85. What David said. I understand the young mans actions but we all have to deal with others bullshit...

...on a daily basis. I will not violate a person's private property to satisfy my anger.

[awoke_in_2003]

117. This is not the same thing

as the lady scaling the pole in SC to remove the flag. She removed it from a site that is public property and is supposed to represent ALL the people of the state. That was civil disobedience- this is theft.

[hunter]

43. Horrors!

Call 911 !!!

.

.

.

[DavidDvorkin]

44. Offensive speech requires even more careful protection than inoffensive speech.

[hunter]

49. Both the flag, and the removel of it, I'd consider "Free Speech."

The guy in the truck had his word when he put up the flag, the guy on the freeway had his word when he took it down.

[DavidDvorkin]

50. If someone can squelch your free speech, then it isn't really free

Your freedom of expression has been suppressed.

[hunter]

61. Oh for fucks sake.

Asshole truck driver buys vinyl confederate flag sticker at some truck stop and puts it on vehicle he doesn't own, meaning to offend certain people.

Someone is quite justifiably offended and peels it off.

End of story.

The back wall of my property faces a public path. It's the frequent target of taggers, and sometimes more interesting graffiti. I don't bother to call the police when I catch them in the act, as if the police would do anything anyways, they're not paid to be nannies and hall monitors. Usually the "artists" run away, sometimes they get mouthy and strut off in a huff, as teens tend to do, but that's life in the city. Paint over and move on. I'm sure I could analyze the situation at my back wall for property rights and free speech issues, but what's the point? And sometimes the kids just make me laugh.

I think this video was funny, and it tells a story too.

[Warpy]

80. Perhaps property law fanatics might have been satisfied

had the "thief" wadded it up and shoved it up the tailpipe. There would have been no theft, just an outbreak of freedom of expression.

Personally, I'd have called the company that owns the truck. I'm sure they don't want offensive decals on their vehicles.

[DustyJoe]

58. ask a trucker

Independant truckers and drivers for freight lines don't typically own the trailers.
They get to a shippers yard and the dispatcher tells them to hook up to trailer X
out in the yard. When they drop a load there's typically a loaded trailer Y ready
to hook up to. Chances that this flag is that particular drivers personal item in
this instance are pretty slim. OTOH if the flag was on a driver owned tractor then
your statement about the driver might hold water.

[hunter]

66. Um... really?

They just go driving off without walking around the trailer first for a basic safety check, and making sure the doors are closed tight and locked?

If this flag was stuck on by the trailer's owner, I'll bet they are rethinking its advertising value.

[awoke_in_2003]

118. If I remove something from your property

is that free speech? No, it isn't.

[hunter]

119. Usually the right wing nuts quickly escalate to actual vandalism.

Fortunately for them, on my piece of shit $800 old car, their key marks are not anything special.



My car has an actual bullet hole in it, from times it was parked on the street in very bad neighborhoods.

I never lock my car because new windows are expensive, and getting hard to find at the junkyard.

A couple of years ago I was hanging Christmas lights and I went inside to grab another beer. Some miscreant stole my box of Christmas lights while I was inside!



Well maybe the thief decorated his mom's house with them and made her happy. What do I know?

A box of Christmas lights won't break my bank.

[Telcontar]

147. Something tells me it wasn't right wing nuts that took your stuff or shot your car

[Spatened]

144. This is the same argument I saw last week...

When that bearded guy took the anti cop folks US flag they were burning and assaulted him with it.

Every herp derp moron said the exact same thing you did and justified the criminal act as just getting a say in.

Hypocrites...

[uppityperson]

134. Why?

[Humanist_Activist]

138. Because all speech has the potential to be offensive to someone, and we cannot allow...

even individual attempts at squashing it to go unchallenged. Especially if they also involve criminal activity.

[Cal Carpenter]

45. Yes! We must protect property at all costs!

Here's to civility!!1!

[DavidDvorkin]

51. No. Here's to the right to express yourself without fear of vandalism.

[LanternWaste]

53. The horror... the horror.

The horror... the horror.

"and we're supposed to cheer?"
I imagine you are "supposed" to react the way to decide to, regardless of any peer pressure you may feel. Sheesh.

[DavidDvorkin]

60. Given the tone of the article, clearly we are expected to cheer the action

As for horror, I can tell you that I feel very upset when my Democratic yard signs get vandalized or stolen.

[Lulu Belle]

10. I don't see why it's now ok to steal other peoples property

Simply because you don't like it.
You would be pissed off if somebody stole your campaign signs off your lawn just because they disagreed with their views.
Or is that ok too?

[DiverDave]

11. Screw the traitors and their

'Heritage' I applaud the guy.
And if you don't then you are on the wrong board.
It's a symbol of hate and fear, and Ill be goddamned if I wont pull one down too.
Arrest me, I care not. It's got to GO!

[Logical]

15. You are 100% wrong on this. But I assume you know that already. nt

[leftynyc]

42. WRONG

And unless you'd also applaud the civil disobedience of a winger taking down a rainbow flag, sticker, button, etc....then you're a hypocrite also. That truck is private property and this was theft, pure and simple.

[Cal Carpenter]

52. I'm with you. The false equivalency between this and a GLBT flag

on DU is shocking.

The LGBT flag doesn't represent centuries of slavery and second-class citizenship. It isn't a cultural symbol of hatred and subordination of an entire race of people. It doesn't symbolize INSTITUTIONAL POWER of oppression.

The LGBT flag is a sign of the oppressed, not the oppressors, and people who don't see that difference or ignore it are as worrisome to me as the people actually waving the confederate flag.

[TeddyR]

75. The difference between what the flags represent is irrelevant to whether

It is ok to steal someone else's property. The person who stole the flag will be lucky not to be arrested.

[mythology]

94. Both represent an act of political speech

It's not a false equivalency just because you don't like it.

If somebody is deeply convinced that Democrats are doing lucifer's work (I use this example because I know just such an idiot) who are actively working to destroy the U.S., would you be okay with them taking down signs for Democratic politicians running for office?

[hollowdweller]

71. I agree taking the flag off was probably wrong on the face of it

However I was glad to see it done.

I have seen a lot of posts here during the election about people being harassed for having Obama stickers or even having them torn off their cars.

I think that is really wrong but it's hard for me to get too worked up about black people removing the confederate flag. IMO they should have been doing it for years.

[cherokeeprogressive]

12. DUers cheer the strangest things.

Suppose the truck had started moving and the guy got killed? Hero? Or Darwin Award winner?

[Texasgal]

13. Or if the flag was a gay pride flag?

Seriously. Let the bigots be be bigots...we can spot them easier!

[cherokeeprogressive]

14. Then, we'd be calling for his head, and people would be trying to identify him from the video. n/t

[Logical]

16. I agree, the old disagee with him but he has a right to prove he is a racist. nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

18. Remember the post the other day about how we "de-nazified" Germany that asked why we couldn't do it

here? By "it" I mean ban the confederate battle flag?

Think the swastika doesn't exist in Germany? What the Germans did was drive it inside and underground. It's there alright, and there are many Germans who revere it... Germans who think they got the short end of the stick in WWII. They worship it in private. Sound like something that could happen here if we were to "ban" it? Or even ostracize it so bad the bigots who hold it up high had to go inside and underground?

I'd rather know who they are.

OTOH, fuck me I'm glad I grew up in Southern California; I don't remember ever even SEEING that damn flag. We had other things to think about...

[Logical]

20. Good points! nt

[yuiyoshida]

23. I agree and you won't see that

flag in San Francisco either... we have this flag to be proud of!!



Love our bear!! RAWWWWWwrrrrr!!

and this one :

[cherokeeprogressive]

25. ^THIS^

[yuiyoshida]

28. someone once said that the eagle on

the San Francisco flag looks "snooty" ! ... Do yOU think so? Or maybe that's a phoenix rising from the fire... not a snooty thing at all!

[cherokeeprogressive]

35. LOL no I don't think it's snooty. Its head is tilted a little, and its beak is in the air.

Kind of reminds me of the Royal "We. Are not amused." Royal, not snooty.

Hey at least you didn't put the Giants pennant up there LOL.

[yuiyoshida]

36. California Pride!

I have lived in Northern, Central and Southern California and love this place!

Where else can you see this?

[snooper2]

48. Galveston Texas

[A HERETIC I AM]

76. Fort Myers, FL

Clearwater.




And numerous others!

[TeeYiYi]

31. ...and this one:

TYY

[yuiyoshida]

33. Abso-friggen-lutely!

[TeamPooka]

121. Then the racists get to meet in secret and hide their hate flags in the bunkers.

I'm cool with that.
Making flying that flag not an acceptable public opinion, like waving a swastika, is okay with me.

[LanternWaste]

55. Duers also passive-aggressively defend the strangest things.

Duers also passive-aggressively defend the strangest things. And for all its relevance, what if the sun stopped shining tomorrow and we all died? Tragedy? Or no one cares?

Six of one, half a dozen of the other...

Still looking for that cheering your referenced. Maybe if we hope really, really hard, we can pretend it exists and predicate our premise on the non-existent for the smug, self-validating feeling that comes after a long morning of pretentious fiction.

[olddots]

17. this thread has been very telling

[csziggy]

21. It would have been better if the video showed the company

That the truck belonged to since it appears to be some kind of commercial vehicle. Then the internet could have ridiculed and shamed the company for allowing such a symbol on their business property.

[Lulu Belle]

22. It did

[csziggy]

26. You're right, though it's only visible at the very beginning

Odd that a company supposedly owned by a Native American woman allows the treasonous flag on one of her trucks. Not so odd that it was on there, considering that the company is in Georgia.

Welcome to DU!

[luvspeas]

87. Tribe Transportation????

This is weird. I posted the video and asked them why they have confederate flags on their trucks.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/TRIBE-Transportation-Inc/142711752502139

Tribe Transportation is the fastest growing asset based Native American Woman Owned Transportation Company, headquartered in Gainesville, GA. Specializing in excellent truckload services via Deep Frozen Refrigerated, Dry and Expedited Team Service, Tribe Transportation has the ability to handle any shipment that is offered by its customers. Drivers are screened thoroughly by our Safety Resources Department to ensure only responsible drivers are assigned to move your freight. Tribe’s ability to offer capacity is bolstered by our quality equipment, cutting edge technology, and high speed communication. Most importantly, this is all done with the personal touch of our experienced employees, available 24/7, who care for these loads from order tender to successful delivery.

[A HERETIC I AM]

103. I'll bet she doesn't know. n/t

[luvspeas]

107. They knew. They took down my post. n/t

[A HERETIC I AM]

108. Sure. Now.

[KamaAina]

128. Perhaps, as has been suggested, the driver put it there himself

without their knowledge.

[Hoyt]

29. Excellent. Lucky he wasn't shot though, since most racists mix gun love with their hatred.

[Comrade Grumpy]

34. That's good way to get yourself in a world of hurt.

Fucking with strangers' personal property on the street is not recommended.

[Liberal_in_LA]

37. lol. truck drivers never know what is going on back there

[Ikonoklast]

152. Really? Better not try to test that theory.

The wireless digital camera I have facing out the rear of my trailer gets a nice clear view of anyone trying to steal my freight or deface my vehicle.


To all others here that are cheering this, what this person did was illegal.

If it was a flag or emblem of which DU approved, the wailing and gnashing of teeth here would have been epic.


You cannot stifle speech you don't agree with, unless you are ready to have your speech stifled in turn.

[Reter]

38. Fuck him

Hope he goes to jail for a long time and then can't get a job.

[Cal Carpenter]

47. Are you serious?

For taking a flag decal off a truck? You want him to have a felony for a small act of vandalism? You want his life ruined?

Please tell me you are being sarcastic and I'm just hyper sensitive.

Please tell me you are not supportive of institutional racism, knowing that if some white dude did something comparable he would, at most, get a minor ticket and fine. Please tell me you don't think a black man deserves to have his life ruined for taking a decal off a truck, a decal that symbolizes the institutional racism that makes him a second class citizen.

[Telcontar]

148. Yes, yes, yes, no, you are, no, doubt it, depends, so what

If I oppose bikers stealing an American flag from protesters trying to burn it, I oppose this jackass too.

[hunter]

90. I agree. The asshole who put that sticker on the truck probably deserves to lose his job...

... and go to jail.

The guy who peeled the sticker off probably saved that driver from further grief down the road.

[Darb]

113. Uh, I think you need a time out.

Go to the bathroom and unwad your panties.

[The2ndWheel]

39. Like everything else in life, it's subjective

Justifiable and rationalized if you agree with it, wrong if you don't.

[Marr]

40. About a month before the Iraq invasion, I saw a young man do the same thing to a car's anti-war

bumpersticker while we were stopped at a light. I thought it was a shitty thing to do, and said so. I don't think I could cheer for something like this. That's a stupid, embarrassing symbol of hate, no doubt about it-- but it's also someone's private property and, sadly, their speech.

[Cal Carpenter]

46. Threads like this are very telling

as far as which side of the line people will choose when it is drawn hard.

And how many people are still in denial that the line is getting clearer. Property vs people.

Fuck the confederate flag. Fuck the systemic racism that is destroying people's lives, and fuck those cultural bigots who perpetuate it.

Hooray for these small acts of disobedience because they are inspiring and necessary.

[Throd]

56. Telling indeed. You either support the 1st amendment, or you don't.

"Sometimes" doesn't count.

[Cal Carpenter]

57. Unless that guy works for the govt

This has exactly nothing to do with first amendment.

[Spatened]

145. How about free speech in principle then?

Meet speech with speech and not theft or violence...

[DavidDvorkin]

63. Exactly.

[Ghost in the Machine]

129. "Hooray for these small acts of disobedience because they are inspiring and necessary."

Back during the Bush* Misadministration, I had a small American Flag turned upside down flying from my vehicle. I had 4 of them stolen off of my vehicle over a period of maybe a year to a year and a half. I just replaced them each time.

Would you call *that* "inspiring and necessary"??

Peace,

Ghost

[Cal Carpenter]

149. No. That is qualitatively different

Removing the confederate flag, which is a symbol of the status quo, a representation of institutional racism, is an act of rebellion against power.

Removing your upside down flag, which is a statement of rebellion against power, is an act of standing with and protecting the status quo - a status quo which oppresses poor people and people of color around the world.

These are not comparable, unless you truly believe there is no right or wrong. Unless you truly believe that 'both sides' are equally valid morally.

This last bit isn't directed at you, but is a reaction to all the various replies I've gotten on this thread....

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, but I am, that I am a dissenter on DU about this incident. Given how wishy-washy the Dem party platform is on some things, for example, and how much vast disagreement there is among Dems on certain issues (war, class issues, etc) I guess it makes sense that there is no shared foundation or solid, unshakeable principles. It's that weird dichotomy that comes from our political discourse in this country, that there are 2 (and rarely more than 2) opposing but ultimately valid ways of looking at everything. So using an upside-down flag or an LGBT flag to express an opinion is not seen as different qualitatively from a confederate flag.

I'm of the mind that there IS right and wrong, and when the status quo results in massive injustice (in the form of war for profit or systemic racism, for example) rebelling against the status quo is a vital act, and a righteous one. I think the lines are drawn very clearly and one side is right and the other is wrong. (Please note, I am not advocating here for gov't censorship, but acts of nonviolent civil disobedience? Sure. He took a decal, he didn't burn a church down or something...).


Also, something that seems to get forgotten in these conversations, is that to some people these flags etc are just symbols but to others they are downright HOSTILE. They tell people they are powerless, that they aren't welcome here (in this truck stop, or this hall of government, for example). Having to confront these 'symbols' is actually experiencing an act of aggression.

There is a massive power differential. The man who took the decal is (very likely, although he may be the rare exception) essentially powerless in the face of massive institutional systems (school-to-prison pipeline, New Jim Crow). He is confronted with what more privileged people can write off as symbols of cultural racism, but it means more than that.

I dunno. I think I may have to be done with this thread, because I've gotten into several subthreads and I'm not getting anywhere, and I'm frustrated that so few people are willing to take a stand on things. This moral equivalency thing and the emphasis on the rule of law when the law is what is causing these injustices... aw, I've just had enough.

I know where I stand, there is a battle going on and I know which side of the line I am on. This man was not violent. He was reacting to violence. I am on his side.

[Ghost in the Machine]

151. You don't have to "be done with this thread", you make some valid points with reasoned debate..

I, personally, just see both acts as theft of another persons belongings. If I would have caught someone stealing my flag, I probably would have broken their hand or arm, just so they would think about things twice before they tried to steal something again. Pedophiles, thieves, and liars are at the top of my shit list. If you're hungry, I'll give you the food off of my plate. If you're cold, I'll give you the shirt off of my back.... but if you STEAL it from me, and I catch you, I'd just as soon rip your arm off and beat you half to death with your own arm.

I have lived in the South all my life, except for a short time in Michigan, and I have NEVER owned a "rebel flag". As someone here once said, in fact it was someone that I hardly ever agree with but did on this... "If you want to fly the Confederate Flag, fly the LAST ONE that they did... the WHITE FLAG OF SURRENDER!" It will probably shock the hell out of him, but to Bolo Boffin!

I live in East Tennessee. Most people don't know it, but East Tennessee broke off with the rest of the State and fought FOR the UNION ARMY. That's part of the reason that the University of Tennessee, Knoxville Campus, was allowed to keep their Charter after the war. The train depot still stands behind the University to this day.

As far as I am concerned, I am just a mutt! When people ask what I am, I just say "American". My Paternal Grandmother was of Dutch/English Descent, my Paternal Grandfather was Scots-Irish. My Maternal Grandfather was of German Descent, and my Maternal Grandmother was Full Blood Cherokee. See? I'm just a mutt, lol!

Peace,

Ghost

[on point]

54. This is wrong on principle. Had no right to remove it, that is oppression

While I want to see all these flags go away, it has to be done via proper means this wasn't one of them.

[Cal Carpenter]

68. Oppression:

a : unjust or cruel exercise of authority or power
b : something that oppresses especially in being an unjust or excessive exercise of power

This man is not an oppressor. He has no real power. He is the oppressed, committing a small, symbolic act of rebellion against someone who is perpetuating his oppression. Against someone who is choosing to stand with the oppressors.

One man who is a member of a systematically oppressed class is not suddenly an oppressor when he removes a decal from a truck.

Legally, he may be a vandal or, at worst, a thief. But he sure as shit is not oppressing anyone.

[on point]

70. Both a and b true in this case. No right to impose his theft on another

[Darb]

114. "Oppression" is not the word I would use.

Jussayin'

[Sunlei]

59. people would do the same thing with the nazi flag.

[DavidDvorkin]

64. And it would be just as wrong in that case.

[tenderfoot]

65. It figures that all the conservatives on DU are outraged by this.

What else is new?

[Man from Pickens]

69. you don't need to be conservative

...to figure out that if this kind of vigilante silencing of free speech is acceptable, it's only a matter of time before a lot of people here get targeted for Dem bumper stickers, especially those of us living in majority-conservative areas.

Seriously, I can't see how any person capable of perceiving time beyond the present moment can approve of this. Is it not obvious how primed this is to boomerang?

[tenderfoot]

72. I've been assaulted for my DU sticker....

so this isn't anything new. However, in this instance someone tried to simply remove the flag. The driver wasn't attacked or forced off the road. Which what a conservative would have tried because they're violent thugs.

[Throd]

73. But you would be OK with someone removing your DU sticker?

As long as no violence is involved?

[tenderfoot]

74. They did it with a exacto blade when I was away - their cowardice was duly noted.

Your defense of displaying that rag has also been duly noted. I assume that you're upset that South Carolina chose to remove it from their state house too. Fucking PC hippies!

[TeddyR]

77. I don't get the sense that anyone is defending the flag

They are criticizing someone for stealing another person's property. And those who are defending this thief should be ashamed -- he isn't exercising any right, he's simply engaging in theft (and at the same time oppressing someone else's freedom of speech).

[tenderfoot]

79. Freedom of speech has consenquences...

when are racist assholes going get that through their thick skulls?

[Throd]

81. Why would you make such a leap in logic?

I am supporting the 1st amendment. Defending the right of PRIVATE CITIZENS to display whatever flag is crucial to free speech. I believe the only place confederate flags should be displayed on state property should be in museums.

[tenderfoot]

84. I think you're just pissed that the thief was black.

God only knows why he'd have a problem with it.

[Throd]

86. Thinking doesn't seem to be in your wheelhouse.

The 1st amendment doesn't have situational technicalities where some people get a pass and others don't based on your criteria.

[tenderfoot]

92. I'm glad that man had the gumption to remove that Racist Sanitary Napkin from back of that truck.

Without violence.

Now you go out and have a nice day.

[KamaAina]

100. "Racist Sanitary Napkin" FTW!

Right up there with Dixie Swastika!

[Cal Carpenter]

111. The first amendment has NOTHING to do with this

unless the guy who took the flag off is a government official.

[Throd]

115. That isn't how the law works.

[Cal Carpenter]

116. So, are you talking about the first amendment, or some other law?

Because, I repeat, the first amendment has nothing to do with this.

Laws against vandalism, theft or destruction of property might apply, of course, but not the first amendment.

If you don't understand the difference, you may want to refresh yourself on the whole point of the bill of rights and what it says.

[Lulu Belle]

112. I have a friend who is a truck owner

He had several bumper stickers supporting Dem candidates on his truck in 2012.
His truck was vandalized several times to the tune of several hundred dollars.
He had his air lines cut on his trailer, and his 5th wheel pin pulled.
People also put bottles of urine in places so that when the vehicle moved, it would spray piss all over his truck or trailer.
Was this because of the stickers?
Who knows...
But after the election, when he removed the stickers, there were no more incidents.
Was the vandalism wrong?
Absolutely
Be careful about the behavior that you cheer, because others will see your approval as a green light to do worse things...

[davidpdx]

150. Very good point Lulu

I had the tail light of my scooter crushed twice in the span of a week in 2008 because of an Obama sticker on it. The strange part of the whole thing is it didn't happen in the United States, it happened in South Korea. I suspect it was another expat that didn't like Obama and decided to vandalize my scooter. I'm sure in his own little mind he could justify what he did (yes, I have a good idea who did it).

Welcome to DU!

If you ever need anything give me a shot.

[hollowdweller]

67. Near me there is a guy with a rebel flag on a flagpole

At the base of the flagpole is a flower garden with a black jockey in it.

Recently somebody apparently lifted the black jockey.

[wendylaroux]

78. To each their own

I usually just flip off the driver.

[luvspeas]

82. That's pretty awesome...

Dangerous but awesome. I'd like to know the business that owns this truck.

[tenderfoot]

83. I get it. Some here are upset that it's a black guy removing the flag from the truck.

No wonder so many are concerned with theft and encroaching on one's freedom of speech.

[DavidDvorkin]

88. Don't be silly

It's the action we're objecting to.

[tenderfoot]

95. Bollocks!

[DavidDvorkin]

101. So I'm a racist?

[DavidDvorkin]

104. Goodbye.

[still_one]

93. Unless it was a government building, that is bullshit. This is someone else's personal

property

[Brickbat]

96. This thread tho.

[GusBob]

99. i am very interested to know which DUers in this thread you are referring to

I need to know which DUers apply to that word salad of labels. Especially the Nazi and KKK.

Thanks in advance

[edgineered]

105. I think the poster was trying to make a joke -

the term Confederate Swastika Apologists appears to be a take off of CSA

[Gidney N Cloyd]

98. I suspect when the trucker hung that flag it was meant as a dare to guys like the one in the video.

[olddots]

106. like I said before this thread is very telling

a libertarian is a coward hiding in semantics

[Throd]

109. We get it. You are only for free speech when you agree with it.

Supporting someone's right to express an opinion doesn't mean I support the context of that opinion.

Why is this so hard for some people?

[uppityperson]

135. You seem to be supporting only 1 person's free speech while saying the other doesn't have the right

1 person can have "free speech" by flying a flag and no one can have free speech against it? That seems rather odd.

[Humanist_Activist]

139. Grabbing a decal/flag off someone else's vehicle is NOT free speech, its either...

theft or vandalism, depending on statute/law in questions.

You are free to call the driver whatever name you want, you can have a bumper sticker on your car calling all rebel flag flying yokels traitors and racists, all that I would support, wholeheartedly. What I wouldn't support is violating the rights of people or their property. The problem is where would it end?

[X_Digger]

159. No, the second person can fly whatever flag they choose.

It's not hard to understand. The solution to bad speech is good speech- not vandalism.

[name not needed]

120. Better a libertarian than a fascist.

[Raster]

110. Not OK. Despite good intentions, the truck and the signage on the truck are private property.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

122. Shame on him, and on the idiots cheering him on. N.T.

[JustinL]

123. lots of misdirected outrage here

Somehow I doubt that the driver got the trucking company's approval to deface their property with a symbol of slavery, segregation, and terrorism. Where's the outrage at this violation of the trucking company's property rights? I would say that the damage inflicted on the company by this defacement (viz., being associated with the driver's racism) is much more serious than the damage inflicted on the driver by having his flag stolen.

As for the driver's 1st amendment rights, an argument can be made that freedom of expression is less unbounded when a captive audience is involved (e.g., Rowan v Post Office, 397 US 728 (1970); Lehman v Shaker Heights, 418 US 298, 305 (1974) (Douglas, J., concurring); Public Utilities Comm'n v Pollak, 343 US 451, 467 (1952) (Douglas, J., dissenting)). I would say that the occupants of a vehicle stuck behind the truck in traffic are just as much a captive audience as the commuters in the Lehman and Pollak cases. The members of this captive audience have their own privacy right not to have a racist symbol thrust upon them.

That doesn't mean that the man in the video had a recognized legal right to resort to self-help by removing the flag, but he certainly doesn't deserve to be the target of anger or moral outrage. The Charleston killings were not just murder; they were an act of terrorism directed against every black person in the country. By continuing to display the racist flag, the truck driver was displaying either callous indifference towards, or outright approval of, this terrorism. I view the man's actions here as an understandable human reaction to the vile display.

[tymorial]

126. I agree with the sentiment, wrong time and place.

There is a time and a place for civil disobedience. Sitting in traffic is not one of them. What if the dude saw you get out of your car and head behind his truck... what if he had a gun? Not only would this person likely be shot or attacked, all of the other cars would stop and gawk. Traffic jams are created. What if someone as a result of that traffic jam missed an important appointment that meant their getting a job that they desperately need? What if someone was trying to get to the hospital to be with someone who was dying? What if someone was rushing to be with a family member who was injured and needed surgery? An incident like this won't just slow traffic, it will cause traffic to stand still.

[Humanist_Activist]

127. OK, this is not cool, flip the racist fucker off, yell at them if possible, etc. but don't...

steal their shit to make a point.

In fact, that's all this is, a video of a criminal committing a crime.

[hunter]

130. Yep. Jaywalking on the highway. It's against the law.

Tearing off that disgusting flag was simply fabulous!

I feel sorry for the people here who only see a scary black man violating their precious.

[Humanist_Activist]

136. Is the race-baiting necessary? Do you also support ripping out campaign signs...

from people's front yards, or other signs/symbols off of vehicles?

All I see is an apologist for criminal behavior. That's it, no more, no less.

You can pretend to be supporting some idealistic form of "civil disobedience" by misusing that term. You can race-bait and falsely insinuate racist motivations for posters who disagree with you. But really, all you are doing is debasing yourself.

Look in a mirror, and ask yourself: "Is this the type of person I want to be?"

Perhaps such self reflection will be enlightening.

The sad part is that you have a rainbow flag as your avatar, and yet you deface it with your posts.

[hunter]

141. Someone put the flag on the truck as a statement. That's free speech.

Someone peeled the flag off the truck as a statement. That's free speech.

The property arguments are absurd. It's just an offensive vinyl sticker, probably ordered in bulk from China for a few cents each in lots of 1000 or more and then sold to asshats for $15 each.

During the proposition H8 campaign in California I'd go straight up to people's houses, knock on their doors and politely tell them I found their yellow H8 lawn signs offensive, and that I'd like to remove them.



Most people were so gobsmacked they did not object. I wasn't ever going to change their unreasonable opinion by reasoning with them, but at least I got their stupid lawn sign, a sign they probably got for free, paid for by the more fossilized minds of the Mormon and Catholic Church, the same sort of folks who cover up child abuse.

I filled the bed of my pickup with signs, and later peeled them all apart, recycling both the heavy wire and the plastic.

Nope. I didn't feel bad at all, and yes, that IS the kind of person I want to be. I'm not going to feign any kind of false respect for opinions that deserve no respect.

All free speech is not of equal value. Some speech is despicable, and deserving of derision. If you think a Confederate Rag on the back of a truck isn't "race-baiting," then that's sad too.

The meek do not inherit the earth. Instead they get bullied by people blathering on about "Free Speech" and "Property Rights" who somehow think all speech and all private property is somehow sacred, or worse, use that kind of talk as veiled threat.

What a load of crap.

[Humanist_Activist]

143. At least you asked, but I have a question, did the people behind the campaign for Proposition H8...

have equal opportunity to claim that the "No to H8" signs were offensive to them, and ask those people if they can take them down?

You seem to fail to understand that your arguments apply to ALL political and potentially offensive speech, allowing a type of lawless free for all in a type of visual shouting match where no one wins, and everyone loses.

You claim that all free speech is not of equal value, and I agree, however, all free speech should have an equal opportunity to be seen or heard where practical. If you wish to counter this speech, you do so with more speech, NOT with committing crimes, those are NOT free speech.

Also, I was talking about YOUR atrocious race-baiting, not that of the confederate flag.

[bhikkhu]

131. It would be easy for me to say that's just petty theft or vandalism

but then I'm white, and reasonably straight, and there aren't really any symbols of oppression and hatred aimed at me that I'm expected to just accept.

Of course there are various ways of looking at it, but I think if I were the man in the video I would like to believe I'd be as angry and as willing to take a risk to make a statement. As an act of theft or vandalism, its insignificant. As an act of free speech expressing his own heritage and feelings, its likely much more significant and valuable than the truck driver's.

[Humanist_Activist]

140. Honestly, its extremely petty, and I would venture to guess it would reflect...

badly on whatever feelings the man who grabbed the flag was feeling.

[bhikkhu]

153. My point was the opposite

...and sometimes even the smallest acts require a great deal of courage.

Like this guy:



Its clearly not a pedestrian zone, and people should respect the right-of-way of motor traffic.

[Humanist_Activist]

154. That man was protesting against an oppressive regime, the one in the video in the OP...

stole a decal from a truck because it offended him. There is no comparison here, at all. They are worlds apart.

And, I must stress, no one has a right to not be offended. Would you be applauding someone who tore off a "Coexist" bumper sticker, or a Darwin fish because they offended them? You can claim that the Confederate flag is a symbol of oppression and tyranny, treason and racism, and you would be right, but you must also recognize that people should have the right to express themselves in all legal ways possible, without fear of illegal and/or dangerous reprisal.

[bhikkhu]

157. Again, that is easy to say being white

and never having had to live with symbols of hatred and oppression. I still am inclined to think that the young man's act was one of free speech, and was of a higher order than the free speech involved in sticking a hateful symbol on a truck.

[Go Vols]

132. Front would prolly be harder.

[Telcontar]

146. I thought the current meme was private display was okay, just take down from the gov't sites

Identify, arrest, and prosecute.

Vandalism has no justification.

[graegoyle]

155. The act of taking the flag off of private property was not free speech.

If he wanted to counter that driver's speech, he should put a sticker on his own vehicle with the traitors' flag tattered and torn and with the message, "You lost; get over it."

[graegoyle]

156. The act of taking the flag off of private property was not free speech.

If he wanted to counter that driver's speech, he should put a sticker on his own vehicle with the traitors' flag tattered and torn and with the message, "You lost; get over it."

[B Calm]

158. Right after Obama passed Cash for Clunkers, I wrote on the back of my semi trailer

Obama Saved My Job! You should have seen the dirty looks from motorists I got!