General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsToo much flag waving at FIFA
I think the American women's soccer team was incredible. Their athletic skills, enthusiasm and spirit is outstanding and inspiring.
But all that fucking flag waving, among the fans and on the field, was a turnoff to me. And people shouting "USA," "USA," is barf inducing.
I saw a few small Japanese flags being waved in the stands here and there. But no other country seems to throw their flag in the world's face as much as we do. It's as though we are somehow "superior" to the rest of the world and we have to let them know it as often as possible.
The only other country I can recall waving a flag this much was Germany in the 1930s and 1940s.
Somehow, we've got to get rid of this "American Exceptionalism" sickness of the mind and realize we are on a planet with almost seven billion other people. And many are content without having to wave their national flag in the face of the world.
It's time we got over ourselves.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Nothing like it would have been had it been any other sport.
randr
(12,412 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)That's right, Hitler.
He also wore underwear. And shoes. And socks. And stuff.
Telcontar
(660 posts)Sound like anyone you know?
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)or any other soccer event ever.
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)I would assume the United States had a large presence, since traveling to Canada is a lot easier for Americans, than it is for Japanese
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Perhaps it's time to move?
Is it "love it or leave it" time again?
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I think a lot of us find that chant full of propaganda because it was employed so much during wars.
NorthCarolinaL
(51 posts)National flag waving is obviously common in international play, but this has bled over to sports within the country. I remember the 1991 hockey all-star game. There were lots of flag wavers in support of the Iraq invasion. One sign read, "No flag burners here."
Maybe the OP was really thinking more about that. This type of pseudo-patriotism has taken over a lot at national sporting events, especially football. The ceremonies are full of military idolization and other baloney. I pay to watch a sporting event, not some zombie adulation for people killing others thousands of miles away.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)The St. George's flag is a come down from the union Jack, which was only abandoned once Scotland started getting serious about leaving the UK.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Scotland and Wales have their own national teams.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... that then perhaps that order and the "familiarity" with what is happening today is that we might have a way to beat China in the world economy too, which we are losing to them at the moment with the free trade crap that we have now!
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Why don't they just chill out and read a book? I could lend them my copy of Sylvia Plath...
BeeBee
(1,074 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Beach volleyball does, though I'm not entirely certain if the attraction is the athletics or just -- ahem -- the athletes.
So people were cheering an American female sports team for their skill. What else should the crowd have chanted? And let's face it, "USA! USA! USA!" rolls off the tongue easier than, "Eritrea! Eritrea! Eritrea!"
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)More Americans tuned into the the Final last night, then did those who tuned into the last game of the world series last year.
Last game of the World Series Ratings = 13.7
Last night's final of the FWWC = 15 (initial ratings, may be as high as 18 once the final numbers are out)
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)Cyrano
(15,041 posts)it seems like there are a lot of "true patriots" here.
Sorry, but my "patriotism" is of a quieter kind.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)That's right, the Nazis.
tymorial
(3,433 posts)/sarcasm off.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Cyrano
(15,041 posts)tkmorris
(11,138 posts)I think the responses are more due to that than patriotism, or the flavor of it anyone prefers.
randys1
(16,286 posts)lower taxes, starving poor people, killing Women in back alleys and so on.
Patriotism BY ANY country or group is dangerous and can and often does lead to abuse and in our case here in the good ole USA, American Empire.
I went to a celebration on the 4th with thousands of folks and the speaker said the main reason we celebrate is to celebrate freedom.
But the kind of freedom he was thinking of, based on his other comments, should be spelled freedumb.
Like the freedumb to have the Koch Bros and friends steal half of our country's resources and wealth.
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Then I understand how you came to the thoughts necessary to post your op.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)No flag waving whatsoever. That should make you feel better.
Oh yeah I almost forgot... the American National Anthem is booed so loudly you can feel the sound. You'd like it.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)which we used to do because, thanks to the Mexico supporters, we could at least sell the place out. You could hear the poutrage all over Mexico the first time we dared to hold one in Columbus -- in February, no less! The Mexican press dubbed it la Guerra Fria -- the Cold War! And we kicked their tricolored butts.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)underahedgerow
(1,232 posts)See, when a person's experience is limited to national commercial teams such as American football, there are no flags. When it's an international match, that's a 'whole 'nuther ball game, baby!'
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)games? Or any league games in Latin America?
Have you watched any Euro cup or Copa America matches?
This was tame compared to what fans of those countries or teams do during matches.
I was in Hamburg, Germany during Euro cup 2012. Hamburg essentially shut down during the matches and the entire city came out to celebrate wins, waving flags and going crazy.
This manufactured outrage is ridiculous.
Cyrano
(15,041 posts)But flag waving is something I never approved of. And the fact that many Americans think we're "The Greatest Country In The World" is depressing. True greatness doesn't need to brag.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)countries and teams. You've created a non-issue here because you don't know the sport.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)take my word on this. I love the sport...hooligans not so much. You might want to google that term.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Tell us again about the greatness of your quiet patriotism.
Cyrano
(15,041 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)I could never be accused of being a sports fan of any stripe but I know people go there for the thrill of competition. It makes them exuberant.
And it's not just sports. Ever seen Justin Bieber fans? It eludes me but they scream and carry on and buy merchandise. Apparently that phenomenon has been going on since Elvis. I don't get it but I'm content to let people have a good time.
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)It's the national team. They represent the USA, thus the USA chants and USA flag waving. If it was a league game, say the Greens vs the Oranges you'd see green flags, orange flags and hear chants peculiar to each of the teams. See, it's not about country so much as it is about team support. Also, if this is the biggest problem you have today, you're going to have a really good day.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)But because you don't attend events, I respectfully suggest you haven't the experience to be forming opinions about the motivations, the emotional involvement, the astonishing rush of joy that results from having your team win (particularly a victory of such stature). There's a bit of basic, broad patriotism involved, sure...but it's mostly for the team itself. Please trust me on this (huge, over-the-top soccer fan).
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Sound like my dad.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)during big soccer matches.
Both are waving the flag on the durn trains!!
I enjoyed it.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)and to mention that other World Cup, you sure missed the people wrapped in other national flags.
The World Cup is known for this, not just on our part. I expect to see this at the Olympics as well, for multiple nations.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)Dr. Strange
(25,921 posts)That's right, the Nazis.
I think it was in an episode of Hogan's Heroes.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)Cyrano
(15,041 posts)what I'm saying. However, believe whatever you wish.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)It's 90% nationalism, 10% soccer.
The men's games usually suck. Count yourself lucky that we saw seven goals instead of the usual 1 or scoreless pk shootout.
GitRDun
(1,846 posts)flags and all.
There were articles written about "over-enthusiastic" Chicago Blackhawks fans flying their colors at away games in the recent Stanley Cup playoffs.
Cheering on your team has nothing to do with American Exceptionalism.
You are missing the mark on this post.
Cyrano
(15,041 posts)something the world would be better off without.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)On principal. Because its countries competing against countries. Correct?
Telcontar
(660 posts)Throd
(7,208 posts)Cyrano
(15,041 posts)sigh.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)Proximity allowed for the majority of fans to be American...all countries do it during the World Cup.
Texasgal
(17,045 posts)When world cup was in Dallas years and years ago the Brazilians were the craziest most fun fans I've ever seen or encountered! They were nuts! Dallas, TX is a long way from Brazil!
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)live and die for the sport...when they didn't win last time after hosting, one would have thought their world had ended!
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)thucythucy
(8,069 posts)and a gazillion.
Then again, math was never my strong suit.
iandhr
(6,852 posts)brooklynite
(94,598 posts)...easy for US fans to come up. If the match had been held in Japan, the Japanese presence would have been just as imposing.
Sports fans do this.
(2014 World Cup)
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)USA, baby!
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)it's boring and dated.
I'm glad AO has been bringing new chants to the game.
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)The video however is just brilliant. It always gets me riled up.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Response to Cyrano (Original post)
CANDO This message was self-deleted by its author.
Cyrano
(15,041 posts)I'm really surprised that so many here on DU don't see this.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)Because I didn't want to get in to any pissing contests. But nice that you and I see eye to eye on this garish display, whether its us or any other nation.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)It's part of football all over the globe.
And in my experience American fans of the sport trend quite liberal and enlightened about other nations. We just want to generate some 12th man enthusiasm and cheer our women or our men on.
"USA! USA!" is a damned good chant, btw. It's clear, it carries, and it's easy for a crowd to synch up to.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)It's not uncommon, albeit as a non sports person I find it bizarre, but from all countries involved.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)I've gone to the Olympics in foreign countries and they would shame us for lack of patriotism in comparison. Hell, you should have seen Canada before the final in men's hockey back in 2010. People were draping themselves in Canadian flags and cheering through the streets the night before the game. As I rode down the escalator to the subway in Vancouver, whole crowds of young men were chanting "Canada Canada Canada" as they rode up. Everyone wore national colors. Maple leaf flags were everywhere.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Maybe we can make it a trending topic too.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)theboss
(10,491 posts)And sing songs from the 30s.
Ryano42
(1,577 posts)But this meant so much to us, to me...at time we really needed it. And yes, it felt great to beat the Soviets!!!
It's certainly better than cheering for an actual war don't you think?
bpj62
(999 posts)You posted exactly what I was thinking. It is absolutely common at international events for rhe team or individual winner of the event to walk around the track or field waving the flag of thier country. The women on that team will never make the money that thier male counterparts do but they play for the love of the sport and the country they represent. We are not a perfect country but international sporting events is something which unites this country and that is a good thing.
madamesilverspurs
(15,805 posts)I'd rather see flags waving in a stadium than on a battlefield. Any day.
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)And I'm an Atheist, I don't use that term lightly.
GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)You nailed it.
And I'm saying this as someone who doesn't like flag displays.
3catwoman3
(24,007 posts)It was absolutely exhilarating.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)demmiblue
(36,865 posts)DawgHouse
(4,019 posts)demmiblue
(36,865 posts)DawgHouse
(4,019 posts)GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)No doubt, you'll allow us the precise and appropriate amount of flag waving, and the objective measure on which that number is based yes?
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)Look at Canada when they win in hockey. Look at any country that wins in whatever they're competing in. Flags, national anthems, etc. Every country does it. Every country.
I'm fine with some good old fashioned America bashing, but your critique in this case is a little narrow in scope.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)It's the national team. In the world championship. Nothing wrong with cheering for our women.
Cyrano
(15,041 posts)It's the flag waving and the "USA," "USA," crap that I object to. We can cheer away. But a truly great country can show a bit of humility and not get caught up in nationalism. It's unbecoming of us, and often ugly.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)LTX
(1,020 posts)The team is the U.S. team. The announcers refer to the team as U.S.A. The match was between the U.S.A. and Japan. It's rather unsurprising that "U.S.A." is the predominant cheer.
But you say you are "all for cheering for our women" (an oddly chauvinistic turn of phrase, given your objection).
So what cheer do you propose? Maybe "Go women!" (problematic, since everyone on the field is a woman). Maybe "Go our women!" (actually kind of creepy, if you think about it). Maybe "Very well done, women in the white uniforms!"
Any suggestions?
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I agree is sounds odd, but I couldn't think of another phrase off the top of my head. I guess "our team" would have worked, but I wanted to acknowledge the accomplishments of these women more directly.
1939
(1,683 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)A list of appropriate and humble cheers may be in order. You will provide us with one, yes?
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Hooray women from the United States, but please don't mistake this for a jingoistic cheering chant!
Hooray women from the United States, but please don't mistake this for a jingoistic cheering chant!
The whole idea of international tournaments is as a peaceful outlet for nationalistic feelings.
Sorry, you just jumped the shark.
LTX
(1,020 posts)"Maneuver the round leather ball auspiciously with your feet, women who are not in the blue uniforms!"
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)iandhr
(6,852 posts)Every international game has flag waving crowds regales of country.
The fact that is there is this level of boisterous sport in a women sporting event is what I call progress.
Have you every been to a NFL, MLB, NHL, or NBA games.
It the same thing. Let go (fill in the name of the team) is shouted through out the game. The louder the fans the better the atmosphere.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)The fact that someone had to win. I mean, of ALL those teams, there was only one winner. What about the teams that didn't win? That's really not fair to them, is it? They tried just as hard as the winning team, but they didn't get all the praise that goes along with actually winning. It's just not fair.
Dr. Strange
(25,921 posts)Even the spectators. As long as they don't have a flag.
sarisataka
(18,663 posts)I'll just say
Good Job Ladies!!
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Good job.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,035 posts)Fla Dem
(23,691 posts)I have no problem when you are playing for a world championship to enthusiastically cheer on your team. If that includes flag waving, so be it. If you've watched other world games you see other countries do it as well. Small thing to nit pick over.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Like the Nazis used to do?
Fla Dem
(23,691 posts)watched the Olympics? I can't tell if you're just being cantankerous, serious, sarcastic, witty or trying to be funny. In any even, the Hilter/Nazi reference is ridiculous.
sarisataka
(18,663 posts)and skiing
or is it only football(soccer) that counts?
DawgHouse
(4,019 posts)but I am not much a fan of national or international sporting events.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Yes I do, it isn't worth starting. By the way, what is the name of the winning team? What do they represent? You have clearly never watched football. Dear Lord the disconnect from society is frightening.
"The only other country I can recall waving a flag this much was Germany in the 1930s and 1940s. "
Not as cute as you thought it was going to be considering the complete disconnect between your op and world football events.
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,869 posts)And I have no problem cheering on our country.
I also put out the flag for the 4th. I guess I'm a Nazi = (.
jimlup
(7,968 posts)I support the USA team because they are my copatriots and a great team. But the USA USA USA stuff is weird I think. Not perhaps because you don't see it from other countries but because we are a world superpower and also a sports superpower it seems different.
A poor sportsmanship tweet made the natioanal news this morning. Something about a tweet that the game was "payback for Pearl Harbor." That kind of stuff shows true ignorance of history as well as poor sportsmanship.
PersonNumber503602
(1,134 posts)Based on the replies in this thread showing that it's common everywhere, do you still believe this is a US problem, or do you think that soccer/sports fans in general are borderline nazis?
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)and I'll show you the Fourth Reich.
brooklynite
(94,598 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Because trust me, they all do it...
Here are some Swiss Fourth Reich types:
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)All of those foolish people waving American flags, what team were they cheering for?
dembotoz
(16,808 posts)Godhumor
(6,437 posts)So a big thumb's up to you.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Glassunion
(10,201 posts)You are more than welcome to pick a league...
Like a Premier League game. If I could recommend a match between Liverpool and Man U.
Or if perhaps a Liga BBVA (Spanish League) game. Any Real Madrid match would suffice.
Or a Fußball-Bundesliga league game...
The behavior you are describing is not unique to the U.S. This is something that fans all over the world do. No matter what continent you are from, the fans of soccer are pretty much quite similar. Even the Antarctic league gets into their matches...
This is not "American Exceptionalism". Nor is it a sickness of mind. It is fans, getting together and cheering on their favorite team. No matter what the team, the fans will cheer them on. There is nothing to get over.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)tymorial
(3,433 posts)Whenever people show even a modicum of pride for America, inevitably someone shows up to express their loathing.
Cyrano
(15,041 posts)disdain for ultra-nationalism as loathing one's country.
tymorial
(3,433 posts)Flag waving and celebrating one's national team winning the world cup is "ultra-nationalism" as is apparently my comment. Too funny.
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)I think there were a lot of flags because so many Americans crossed the border to see USA team play, so flag-bearing fans was natural.
I think I heard on TV that the President of Japan did not come, and it might have made a difference if he had, a larger contingent might have come.
I think a lot of flag-waving is to booster the morale of the team, and if so, it sure worked.
But if it had been held in Europe somewhere, the flags wouldn't have been so noticeable because there would not have been nearly the number of US citizens.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)What better way to show the desire to win then yell out our team? I have noticed that fun is being taken away lately. Complaining about everything is status quo. Well thankfully not everyone feels that way.
Crabby Appleton
(5,231 posts)SwissTony
(2,560 posts)Deserved winners.
Flag waving? Not a problem. Loved the woman with an eagle's head.
johnp3907
(3,732 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)This is how spectators from every country cheer on their teams. Check out Europe, for instance.
We're no more "exceptional" than anybody else in this regard.
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)Finally... A female US sports team. Not only outpaces their male counterpart... Well, to be honest, the women set the pace and the men have failed to pull anything remotely close.
A female team, that had higher ratings than the final game of the last World Series, a game that I might add is known as America's Pastime.
A sport that is popular the world over, not just here in the US (baseball, football), and they kicked the worlds ass.
How many times, in all honesty can you say, where this country got behind a team of females on any level, in any sport, and showed this level of support, spirit, and enthusiasm? I can think of none.
So, if you could enlighten all of us that have no issues showing up to a game, sporting the team's colors and flags (remember, these are national teams), suggest how we might go about cheering on the national team we wish to see win, that is in no way different from how the other teams go about supporting their team? A team mind you, that in the ever-so-short period of time that the cup competition existed (founded in 1991), has managed to take the most wins and the lion's share of awards since it's founding.
Logical
(22,457 posts)MH1
(17,600 posts)JCMach1
(27,559 posts)a la izquierda
(11,795 posts)I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. A LONG time.
I've watched soccer in five countries (US, Mexico, Spain, Germany, the Netherlands). The flag waving, as pretty much every other person has mentioned, is standard. I was in the Netherlands for one of their WC matches last year. The fireworks and celebration went on until about 4am.
Response to Cyrano (Original post)
MFrohike This message was self-deleted by its author.
romanic
(2,841 posts)If flag waving and chants bother you that much then don't watch. Simple as that.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)MH1
(17,600 posts)I'm glad I chose this one to click on rather than one of the ad nauseum primary fights.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Oh never mind.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)So I'll just say - Unrecc x 1,000,000.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)"American Exceptionalism" Yes, EVERYBODY DOES IT. There's flag waving galore in soccer. If the Japanese had won instead, do you really think that team wouldn't be waving their own? Their fans in the seats surely did (when they scored, which wasn't often).
RandySF
(58,911 posts)RandySF
(58,911 posts)Watch any game in the world and you'll see people waving national flags or the flag of their favorite clubs. Here is a video at a big FC Barcelona home game.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Trust me, during the group stages and the knockout rounds, there's flag-waving and over-the-top displays of national pride by every single team's supporters. Some more than others, obviously, since some countries are closer to where the tournament is played than others. But they all do it.
And that Nazi Germany comparison was over-the-top and insulting...
bravenak
(34,648 posts)That's right, Nazis. And Hitler.
840high
(17,196 posts)T_i_B
(14,738 posts)Cheering on your national football team isn't a very good example of "American Exceptionalism" to be honest. Not compared to that NFL gumph which other nations eschew in favour of rugby.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)brooklynite
(94,598 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)I don't know that FIFA even counts as vaguely nationalistic after that.