Greece Will Close Banks to Stem Flood of Withdrawals

[RandySF]

ATHENS — Greece will keep its banks and stock market closed on Monday and place restrictions on the withdrawal and transfer of money, banking executives said Sunday night, as Athens tries to keep its financial crisis from growing worse.

The government’s decision to close banks temporarily and impose other so-called capital controls came hours after the European Central Bank said it would not expand an emergency loan program that has been propping up Greek banks in recent weeks while the government was trying to reach a new debt deal with international creditors.

The debt negotiations broke down over the weekend after Prime Minister Alexis Tsprias said he would let the Greek people decide whether to accept the creditors’ latest offer. That referendum vote is to be held next Sunday, after the current bailout program will have expired.

The government was expected on Sunday night to issue a statement, presumably to explain the bank closings and any other steps it might be taking to try limiting the financial damage from its escalating crisis.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/29/business/greek-debt-crisis-european-central-bank.html?_r=0

[shenmue]

1. I'm really worried for them

I hope this doesn't trigger an even worse collapse, like what happened in the U.S. in the 1930s.

[dixiegrrrrl]

2. It most likely will.

Germany's banks hold most of the greek debt.
The debt has been insured in various ways, via derivatives, and the insurance must be paid out.

Italy and Spain are in the same position Greek is, re: debt and economy. They are closely watching how Greek handles the refusal to pay staggering debt.

[shenmue]

4. Yeah, you may have it there

I am scared for them. There may be food riots and other crazy things.

[dixiegrrrrl]

12. First crazy thing just happened:

The Associated Press is reporting drivers in Greece are jamming gas stations across the country, prompting the country's largest refiner to issue a statement reassuring there are enough reserves. AP says many are anxious about rumors that restrictions will be made on ATM withdrawals.

Next will be run on grocery stores.
And tourists will leave en masse, since they need to access money also.

The smart Greeks took their money out weeks ago, and stocked up on what they need.
The retired are screwed because their funds are deposited on Mondays, and if the banks are closed.....

Which just goes to show how important it is to have a safety net of cash on hand, like people do down here.
We have bug out boxes, in case we have to evacuate because of hurricanes.and from June to Nov, we keep the gas tanks filled.

[shenmue]

13. ...

[stevenleser]

3. I really thought Tsipras would negotiate hard and then settle for the best deal he could wrangle.

Now instead he and Syriza look like they are going to drive Greece into a horrific depression.

[Katashi_itto]

5. No. Looks like are planning on following the Icelandic model.

Short term hardship.

Long term freedom.

Course you would root for the Creditors.

[stevenleser]

7. That is extremely wishful thinking

Greece is just like Iceland in your world?

As far as "rooting" is concerned, I'm rooting for the Greek people.

You are rooting for an ideology and don't really care about the Greek people.

[Katashi_itto]

16. Don't worry you be on Fox and Friends soon enough.

[stevenleser]

19. Like your preferred candidate Bernie? Do you mock him for it? Nt

[randome]

20. I rarely post a reflexive "+1" but... +1!!!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[stevenleser]

22. The folks who thoughtlessly lob logical fallacies like that at me when they have no other arguments now have two problems

Bernie Sanders and Glenn Greenwald, both of whom make regular appearances the same place.

[Katashi_itto]

24. Your equating Bernie or Greenwald with you? Lol!

Last edited Tue Jun 30, 2015, 06:01 AM - Edit history (1)

[stevenleser]

28. Since all three of us do the thing you apparently find offensive, absolutely. Hypocrite much? nt

[Katashi_itto]

47. No your the only real hypocrite here.

Last edited Tue Jun 30, 2015, 06:53 AM - Edit history (1)

3rd rate Journalist on a bottom feeder network who thinks they are in the same category as Bernie or Greenwald.

Not once have you cited anything, Again you simply spew hyperbole. Repeating the same thing over and over like any good propagandist. Fox is a good fit for your "talents".

[Recursion]

9. Wow that's a very simplistic view of the world you have.

"Short term hardship" in this case would be about a 40% GDP reduction.

[Katashi_itto]

15. Lol...the corporate propagandist speaks.

Cheering for TPP...But I forget. as you live in India, you would benefit from the resultant outsourcing.

[Recursion]

18. See? You can only categorize things you disagree with as "propaganda"

That's not a very adult way to engage.

[stevenleser]

21. As you can see from the response, neither Syriza nor their cheerleaders have a plan or a clue

They throw words at you like "corporatist" and all kinds of other stupidity, but that is just an attempt to mask the fact that Syriza and Tsipras clearly have no plan at all. They don't have the slightest clue what they are doing, and it's obvious.

[Katashi_itto]

25. Lol! So predictable.

[stevenleser]

29. Yes, you are. Again, you've got nothing, and neither does Syriza/Tsipras. nt

[socialist_n_TN]

10. Yep. Greece and SYRIZA was presented a "choice"........

short term hardship or long term neo-slavery, and that includes political slavery as well as economic slavery since the Trioka made it clear they weren't having any of this "democracy" stuff if it meant electing opponents of austerity and privatization. They've got to take that next step though. Nationalize not only the banks, but also ALL of the commanding heights of industry and run them under workers' control for the people rather than the owners. I would concentrate especially on food, shelter, clothing, healthcare, industries, the things that people NEED, rather than what a few want.

[RandySF]

14. Yeah man. Two-thirds drop in GDP? No sweat.

[Katashi_itto]

17. Yes, as opposed to the perpetual increasing debt they have?

Last edited Mon Jun 29, 2015, 01:18 AM - Edit history (1)

Every time they take out another loan to pay bills a larger and larger chunk of that same loan goes to servicing the overall growing debt they constantly incur. Figure out the math.

Why do you think the EU constantly screams for more cuts. Because they have to have more to cover each successive interation of the overall debt.

It's a no win situation. Sooner or later the Greek Govt will simply be taking out loans to service the loans and getting nothing to run the govt on. They could be taking loans for 15 Billion and like getting maybe...MAYBE 8 billion to run the govt on and the rest will go to servicing that ever growing debt. Each iteration getting less and less to actually run the country on.

EU/IMF is basically running a Payday Loan operation on a countrywide scale.


That is the magic of compounded debt.

[stevenleser]

23. and Syriza/Tsipras plan for dealing with that, assuming we agree with your characterization, is what

Tsipras and Syriza came to power promising the Greek people they would renegotiate the debt, not default, and stay in the Eurozone. Since they are about to renege on all three of those promises, did they lie to the people they were elected to serve, were they incompetent or both?

What is their plan now and link to where they articulated this plan. I can save you the time, they don't have one. They have no idea what they are doing and it's obvious.

Yes, Greece has big problems, and I am not invested in how they are solved I just want them to be solved so that the most vulnerable there don't lose their pensions and whatever else they have.

You're so invested in a particular ideology I haven't seen you mention the people who will suffer once in your responses to anyone here.

[Katashi_itto]

26. Gosh they aren't suffering now? You are so wrapped up in putting a oligarch spin on it.

You forget what hardships they are going through NOW. They already don't have anything anymore.

Greece has lost a quarter of its national income and output since 2007. That means, on average, a Greek citizen who was earning €10,000 (£7,000) in 2007 is today, after wage cuts, on €7,500 (£5,300). This is a crude average, so in practice many have suffered larger cuts as they have lost their jobs, or were on higher public sector pay, which has been cut more.


This was three years ago and the austerity simply is even worse.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/9186568/Austerity-suicide-Greek-pensioner-shoots-himself-in-Athens.html

2015
http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2015/06/25/study-austerity-in-greece-led-to-tragic-increase-of-35-in-suicides-in-just-two-years/

But what am I saying, your dying to be part of the corporate media. You could give two shits about real people.

Greece’s unbalanced austerity and drastic increase of poverty. The poorest households in the debt-ridden country lost nearly 86% of their income, while the richest lost only 17-20%. The tax burden on the poor increased by 337% while the burden on upper-income classes increased by only 9% !!! This is the result of a study that has analyzed 260.000 tax and income data from the years 2008 – 2012.

[stevenleser]

30. You're trying to change the subject from the fact that Syriza/Tsipras have no plan and don't know

what they are doing. And you don't care about the people who will suffer for that and all you offer is trite ideological nonsense.

[Katashi_itto]

32. Lol, still trying to make it sound like you give a shit about the people of Greece.

Yes, they could remain a whipping boy to the troika with endless growing austerity with no exit (your idea of heaven) or get out.

[stevenleser]

43. Its easy to tell who cares. I've been mentioning them all along. You finally did after multiple

comments and it was as if you felt annoyed for having to do so.

Admit it. The Greek people are far down on your list of priorities. Fighting austerity is your number one priority.

I don't care which policy works, I just want the Greek people's suffering minimized or eliminated. That is not your priority.

[Katashi_itto]

33. Got news for you pensioners are losing anyway. Like you care.

[stevenleser]

36. Oh I care. And how many comments by you before you deign to mention pensioners?

That says it all.

[Katashi_itto]

38. Lol. Fake argument like everything about you.

Truly Fox is your place.

[stevenleser]

44. I know my caring about the people of Greece annoys and confuses you

because you don't care about them at all.

Next time I see Bernie, I'll tell him how much of a sellout you think he is for going on networks you don't like.

[Katashi_itto]

45. LOL...! You are definitely Fox material.

I post valid citations you spew spin.

"Sellout" Lol Project much? You yourself know it about yourself down deep.

I am not the one getting paid to have an agenda. Looks like I am not the "sellout"

By all means you tell Bernie whatever you like. I think he will recognize you for what a fraud you are.

[snooper2]

34. Maybe Maduro will help them out?

[stevenleser]

37. Exactly. DUzy! nt

[hack89]

27. Completely different problem

Greece has a massive sovereign debt problem. Iceland did not.

[stevenleser]

31. That doesn't matter to those folks. It's all about their ideology. They dont know the problem and

don't care about the people affected.

But go Syriza!!! (Who dont have a plan or a clue either)

[Katashi_itto]

39. Like you have a solution? LOL

Better they drop from EU then be forever under ever increasing austerity. Like you even get whats happening.

Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis

"I am against increasing the corporate tax, but then again I am against raising the tax on hotels and against cutting the pensions of people who live below the poverty line," he said.

Explained: How much does Greece owe?
"These issues are putting me and my government in an impossible position, having to make a bad choice among really hard, difficult bad choices."

Wanting the Greeks to continue under never ending austerity shows who you think your masters are.


JOSEPH STIGLITZ: Such punitive targets – I know how I’d vote in the Greece referendum
"It is hard to advise Greeks how to vote on July 5. Neither alternative – approval or rejection of the troika’s terms – will be easy, and both carry huge risks. A “Yes” vote would mean depression almost without end. Perhaps a depleted country – one that has sold off all of its assets and whose bright young people have emigrated – might finally get debt forgiveness; perhaps, having shrivelled into a middle-income economy, Greece might finally be able to get assistance from the World Bank. All of this might happen in the next decade, or perhaps the decade after that.

By contrast, a “No” vote would at least open the possibility that Greece, with its strong democratic tradition, might grasp its destiny in its own hands. Greeks might gain the opportunity to shape a future that, though perhaps not as prosperous as the past, is far more hopeful than the unconscionable torture of the present.

[stevenleser]

40. I didnt run to be Prime Minister of Greece on the allegation that I did. Is that the best you've got

If you are going to defend Syriza and Tsipras, you need do to a lot better than that.

[Katashi_itto]

42. Easy one. JOSEPH STIGLITZ: Such punitive targets – I know how I’d vote in the Greece referendum

"It is hard to advise Greeks how to vote on July 5. Neither alternative – approval or rejection of the troika’s terms – will be easy, and both carry huge risks. A “Yes” vote would mean depression almost without end. Perhaps a depleted country – one that has sold off all of its assets and whose bright young people have emigrated – might finally get debt forgiveness; perhaps, having shrivelled into a middle-income economy, Greece might finally be able to get assistance from the World Bank. All of this might happen in the next decade, or perhaps the decade after that.

By contrast, a “No” vote would at least open the possibility that Greece, with its strong democratic tradition, might grasp its destiny in its own hands. Greeks might gain the opportunity to shape a future that, though perhaps not as prosperous as the past, is far more hopeful than the unconscionable torture of the present.

I know how I would vote."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-commentary/such-punitive-targets-i-know-how-id-vote-in-the-greece-referendum/article25185325/

This must not make your corporate masters happy. Since you bark their tune.

[herding cats]

46. You realize people are going to die?

Does that resonate with you? We're not just talking short term hardship, we're talking an economic collapse where the social safety net is failing. The weakest are about to be put through hardships worse than what they've been forced to endure. Which has been horrific enough until now. Those few kind people who helped the least there before this collapse won't be able to do the pittance they did before. There are people who don't have jobs who now won't have even the minor donated food and services they had before. They will have nothing. No place to turn, and nothing.

This isn't a spectator sport, it's a horrific tragedy which will lead to a loss of life. Not just quality of life, but actual life, at an escalated rate.

My heart hurts for what the people of Greece are going through, and I'll be damned if I play political games about it from the comfort of my fully serviced home with the comfort of my full belly.

Real people are terrified in Greece today. Yes, some rich people who moved their euros out of Greek banks ages ago could lose some of their wealth, but they're not the ones who are at the most risk. It's the poor people there who will pay the greatest price in this cluster F of a disaster. Those who have already been marginalized to the point of losing their employment and living in cars they can no longer afford to drive, or on benches in public areas. They're going to lose the local benefactors who have been scraping together extra euros here and there to help keep them fed.

Crime will become even worse, the majority of victims as usual will be the weakest in society. Shortage could be a reality, and the economic impact will kill, literally kill, many of the poorest in the society if their economy does collapse. This isn't a game, or something to crow about on a message board. Peoples lives are at stake. If this were a war of any other sort, we'd be talking about all the innocents about to be decimated. Instead, since some people think it's a worthy cause, it's "short term hardship." I'm pretty sure for the people of Greece who never live to see any semblance of recovery, it's going to be a lifelong hardship. What are they, collateral damage? Because that's about how many fucks are being given to them by everyone involved. No one is worried about the poorest in Greece right now. Too many people think they have a point to make or some stake to lose, but no one is giving a damn about those who already have nothing tangible left and are about to lose the last thing they have.

[Nye Bevan]

6. Nice job, Tsipras!

Expertly played.

[GliderGuider]

8. He had no defense against the emergency liquidity cap.

The ECB basically forced his hand. Now we all wait for the fallout. This could be very contagious, both economically and politically.

[geek tragedy]

41. well, he could have avoided telling the people he's been begging to extend the lifeline

to go Cheney themselves.

It's usually a bad idea to declare war on the people upon whom one is dependent financially, especially when you want them to continue sending you money

[seveneyes]

11. The Ride is just beginning

[brooklynite]

35. Deadline for loan default is 6 PM Eastern