General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEvery American is a socialist.
Will you drink tap water today? You are a socialist.
Will you use indoor plumbing? You are a socialist.
Will you use a public road? You are a socialist.
Do you have a mailbox? You are a socialist.
Do you rely on the fire department? You are a socialist.
Do you believe in Social Security? You are a socialist.
Do you believe in Medicare? You are a socialist.
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)Libertarians .
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)that part of the military can also be considered socialist
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)institution in American society. from cradle to grave.
procon
(15,805 posts)Oh, they hate the word, but they love the benefits when it flows upward and into their pockets. They may hate the idea of a 'transfer of wealth' when it goes to groups they perceive as unworthy, but even Republicans embrace socialism when money from impoverished taxpayers end up the pockets of the ultra rich.
They are all for a reverse socialism that takes money away from the working class taxpayers to subsidize a higher profit rate for their investments in already wealthy mega corporations. When it comes to propping up their "free market" ventures, Republicans love socialism that diverts public funds into their private schools, prisons, and all the other state infrastructure holdings they've bought.
Republicans hate socialism when its used to uplift working class poor people, but when it comes to taking money from those same folks to bail out big banks and giant corporations, and giving free perks and financial benefits to make rich folks even richer, then socialism is just fine for America's millionaires.
brooklynite
(94,727 posts)Words have meaning.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)It certainly has historical, academic and theoretical value, but I don't know anybody who often uses the term in that sense these days. First of all, "social ownership of the means of production" prescribes the popular meaning far beyond its usage in America since FDR at least. Social security was attacked as socialism when it was first proposed, yet it has nothing to do with controlling the means of production.
Words have meaning. And those meanings evolve by usage.
former9thward
(32,077 posts)You will find none of those things are socialist.
The Romans had indoor plumbing. Were they a socialist empire? Social Security and Medicare were invented in the 1880s Germany by Bismarck who was the greatest enemy of socialism of that century. They are not socialist.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)The meanings of words evolve and expand over time. The Roman empire was not a socialist empire, but its uses of collective wealth were a decisive advantage over the peoples they conquered. For example, good roads, aqueducts and a professional army were all important elements in how they were able to achieve the status of "empire."
Are you really suggesting that the term "socialist" has not been applied to American Social Security and Medicare? If you are indeed suggesting that, perhaps you should also read a book on American history.
former9thward
(32,077 posts)are far right conservatives. No one else. I don't take the meaning of words based on what far right conservatives say.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)a "far right conservative".
former9thward
(32,077 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)who's called SS socialistic.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)"We are all socialists now."
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/newsweek-cover-we-are-all-socialists-now-65702362.html
"Ronald Reagan Speaks Out Against Socialized Medicine"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan_Speaks_Out_Against_Socialized_Medicine
Or how about that reactionary Lawrence O'Donnell, who explicitly referred to SS as a socialist program (at 4:53 of the linked video below)?
former9thward
(32,077 posts)I did not click on the link because I have no interest in what a talking head seeking publicity has to say. Yes RR is a far right conservative.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)former9thward
(32,077 posts)Glib quotes don't do for me. Maybe you take your ideology from Newsweek covers but I don't.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)former9thward
(32,077 posts)In fact he is not an economist at all.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)Your claim in post #10 had nothing to do with "serious economists." Your claim was directed to all of humanity except "far right conservatives." You claimed no one else used the term "socialism" with respect to SS. I disproved your assertion.
So for a second time I ask you: do you withdraw your claim in post #10?
former9thward
(32,077 posts)Do you want a third or fourth time? If you think a sensation seeking magazine cover or a glib comment by a talking head counts for something, cool. I don't.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)and you don't even have the maturity to admit a factually incorrect assertion. The reality is that the term socialism has become much broader than any definition constrained to the "means of production."
You don't want to admit that, so I will leave it to the audience by inspection of the evidence presented on this thread.
sjk.fly4ever
(11 posts)I disagree. I'm not a socialist, I'm an american.
Stephan.
BumRushDaShow
(129,450 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)former9thward
(32,077 posts)LOL
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)such as the Medicare program, is indeed referred to as socialism.
former9thward
(32,077 posts)Credible economists do not call the Medicare program socialism.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)Medicare a socialist program.
former9thward
(32,077 posts)Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)former9thward
(32,077 posts)Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)You are only a socialist if you believe the government should run all factories and any other means of production.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Cool your jets. Socializing the costs of public resources is also socialism. That is a form of social ownership. We used to have private for-profit toll roads. We largely don't now, because they create libertarian chaos.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)The commons have been a part of capitalist society for hundreds of years. It's nothing new in capitalist societies.
Socialism is well defined and it is not how you define it.
And now that you have admitted to being a member of the CPUSA, you are no ally of mine and I shall now put you on ignore.
When it comes to Communism and the CP, I AM A JFK DEMOCRAT!
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)LOL. Admitted forsooth. I'm not sure about the crack about JFK. He pardoned the last of the Smith Act victims. Well, bye.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)to be convenient for your purpose.
But don't worry, we love you anyway.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)that redefine it to be convenient for heir purposes.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)to refer to Scandanavian countries is incorrect? I thought everybody did that. Is it possible that you are right and everybody else in the world is wrong?
immoderate
(20,885 posts).. which is just plain "socialism," IOW, workers own the means of production.
Depending on who you're hanging out with, "socialist" is loosely applied to any government service or government administered function, and I would call that social democrat, or democratic socialist, and my socialist friends would assert that it's not socialism at all.
Like most arguments, it's about the meaning of words.
---imm
Skittles
(153,193 posts)yes, they are unbelievably stupid, as that poster showcases
former9thward
(32,077 posts)And no, they were not socialists.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Skittles
(153,193 posts)JI7
(89,264 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Ergo, I am not a socialist.
Rex
(65,616 posts)So wait...you don't pay taxes?
EX500rider
(10,856 posts)Socialism is government owning the means of production.
Communism is the government owning everything.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Anything for the 'greater good' is socalism and we all participate, although without intent for helping others, in it everyday due to our own vested interest in surviving.
Adam Smith was a socialist. He created the idea of a social safety net (brought about by the mere act of day to day survival) that we enjoy to this day.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Belief that those things are run well and more things should work the same way might make you a socialist.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)credit unions?
Rex
(65,616 posts)Delivering groceries to the grocery store. It is about a lot more then what is obvious on the surface.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I see people still get social ownership and state ownership mixed up.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)That makes the TPP SOCIALIST!!!! Simply because the SOCIALIST OBAMA PROPOSES IT!!!
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)TPP is not socialism in any sense of the word. It is a corporatist scheme to maximize profits at the expense of workers and the environment.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Will be a big plus in the GE?
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)The only shot he's got is if people use their eyes and ears instead of that artificial sensory gland brought on by Media, Platitudes that polarize, inflection instead of Content .