General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI have formulated an opinion about the TPP
I think President Obama has been convinced, or threatened, that the world economy will crash without it. And that that must be kept secret from us peons, or the mere rumor will crash it.
I don't think he is a bad man. As a matter of fact, I'd like to hug his neck and thank him for a number of things.
One thing I do know - corporations have too much power.
SciFiRK
(65 posts)I have pondered for years if Obama is being literally being threatened in some way. All the Secret Service "close calls". Maybe just wishful thinking because I don't want to actually think that he would screw us over with some of his decisions that seems to happen.
Man from Pickens
(1,713 posts)When you have banks that can literally print money, and the crime of bribery is functionally obsolete. any price can and will be met. Look how richly the Clintons are compensated for carrying their water.
The game being rigged being the simplest explanation, that hypothesis needs to be discredited to proceed to a more complex explanation (Occam's Razor). It is staggeringly difficult to refute with any degree of confidence...
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)interests to the best of his ability even though we can't see the benefit clearly. I am willing to wait to see how things unfold in the next two years. In other words, I want to give it chance to work for our benefit before trashing it out of hand.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)And the uncharacteristic vehemence of the president regarding this issue.
And, of course, the fact that nearly 100 percent of Rs support it.
I don't like it - I've just been trying to figure out why the president is so uncharacteristically energetic on its behalf.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,019 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Fuck secrecy. Fuck any government that thinks it's a good thing, and fuck the people who run such a government.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Thus far, his 'post partisan' fantasy has fallen flat. I believe he see's this as his big chance for bipartisanship with them. He has to throw all his allies and everyone who voted for him under the bus to do so. It is pretty revolting, IMHO.
DJ13
(23,671 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)That either the man has never bought a car, or he always got taken.
brentspeak
(18,290 posts)dumb as dirt.
No, he's smart enough to know what this is all about -- pleasing some Wall Street puppet masters.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)and I bet he'll be worth about half a billion dollars in pudding less than 10 years after he turns the White House over to the next politician.
CK_John
(10,005 posts)who don't need to buy our stuff.
We only have several million people that needs them to buy our stuff or our economy will tank, since we no longer make the stuff we need from them.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Yep, that's about what I said.
And we brought it on ourselves.
Or the corporations, banksters, and 1% did.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)That includes the 480 million people in the NAFTA countries.
BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)Or can't afford to? Neither they nor we will be able to buy any "stuff" if we're all working for pittance wages.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Skittles
(153,193 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)LeftOfWest
(482 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Just Google Moyers and TPP together.
And I know that you know that this "just wait until it's finalized" business is often (if not virtually always) a way of getting people to wait until it is too late.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)negotiating documents, add in objectives from White House and USTR, etc., and you pretty much have it.
In any event, you'll see it well before Congress takes it up.
HFRN
(1,469 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Great, plenty of time to protest. If that will make any difference.
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)1) There is text, call it "working text", or a "rough draft" or whatever you like. It exists.
2) You can't read it. A few folks can, but you aint one of them.
3) Ergo, it's secret.
It's logic an average Kindergartner can follow.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Again, look at NAFTA, working text, goals, etc., and you've pretty much got it.
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)I always have wondered how much power is
left to the person in the WH. Not just the
banks, but all the powerful institutions of
government, which to a great degree have been
bought. I am not sure, although I accepted
Obama's admission that he is a moderate
Republican. You cannot leave that out for
matter of convenience.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I'd be a lot happier.
udbcrzy2
(891 posts)To me it's like deja vu of the heathcare plan where the insurance companies and lobbyist wrote out the plan behind closed doors.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I'd love to know the full story of why.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)the Federal Reserve keeps pretending that they are about to raise interest rates, but they don't.
If things were really going well, ZIRP should have sent the economy into the stratosphere.
As you say, words could crash the economy.....certainly the stock market.
He is a good man, and is probably a genius.
What you are saying feels right to me.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Which scares me and my IRA.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)The technicians at the DNC won't agree with this, but I think that we need to deliver a knockout blow to Republicans at all levels, and the standard middle of the road talking points and policies won't get it done.
Bernie is the only Democrat that I see who even has a chance at that.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)interesting theory
The Dems wanted no part of that?
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Not the rest of the Dems.
And the Rs like it, of course, because their corporate masters do.
Heck, I don't know. I just know that I don't like it and that sometimes the president puzzles me.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)It is as likely an explanation as any other.
treestar
(82,383 posts)by people on the internet. It's not as important as they make it out to be. They are making it bigger than it is because they are looking for something to stir up trouble.
Too bad we allow them to succeed. There's nothing odd about the secret negotiations. Before the sunshine laws, legislatures did that frequently - only presented the final bill, but avoided making their committee deliberations public. This is only to make the debate be about the final product. It's not keeping anything secret permanently.
Most of it is meant to protect us in international trade. Without any agreements, there is no regulation, and we trade with countries that have no minimum wage, etc., making it harder for our labor to compete with theirs. Some regulation will help that. Other countries want access to our market, and we can use that to get them to make better conditions in their countries.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)if Congress had the same access to it that corporations do. But they don't.
Man from Pickens
(1,713 posts)The number of innocent explanations for taking extreme measures to keep the documents out of the hands of the representatives of the people, by my count, is zero.
If this agreement were even arguably beneficial to the American people we'd be having a debate over its contents and not over why we can't see what its contents are.
treestar
(82,383 posts)and what corporations have access to it? Anyway it cannot be voted on until made public.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)If all these people have full, meaningful access, right now, why don't our elected representatives?
And, rightly or wrongly, I get the feeling that when it becomes public time until the vote will be short. It's always felt like an attempt to flim flam the public to me.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)I do think it's part of the Asia pivot and to prevent China from being an Asian hegemon.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)he's been convinced it will prevent something very bad.
Maybe it will. But the leaked parts sound pretty bad themselves. And it caused the president to act in uncharacteristic ways, which always makes me suspicious.
Marr
(20,317 posts)He himself described his policies as 'mainstream 80's Republican'.
People make up these complicated narratives to reconcile what they want to think of Obama with what the facts, and his own words, say.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)That doesn't necessarily explain *all* of the bad stuff that's been leaked.
Oh heck, I'm going around in circles. I think I'll stop.
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)need a person willing to level with us about threats to our Democracy, and if the Corporations go un policed we will have another Crash, Wouldn't want to be wealthy in that world .
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)a) It generally beats being poor, and b) The wealthy can make out like bandits when stocks, commodities, and labor are cheap.
But I'd prefer that world not happen.