Hi there.

[mmonk]

Thought I would drop in to tell you, if TPP becomes the law of the land, there is a 100% chance I will become an independent voter. Too many of you are naive. See you soon. Go Bernie.

[boston bean]

1. okay..

I'll be voting for Hillary as it may possibly be the most important vote of my lifetime.

[cascadiance]

35. Just have to solidify those votes for the corporate money to take us over!

Yep, those who want that will find its a very important time to vote for Hillary!

[Exilednight]

2. Who cares?

[sharp_stick]

3. Such a special little snowflake n/t

[HappyMe]

4. I think it will be the law of the land.

I'm voting for Bernie also.

[MineralMan]

5. Thanks for returning to let us know that.

Really.

[Xyzse]

6. Sometimes I wish I had that type of integrity/surety/zeal.

However, I really can't. When I think of the chances of another Republican winning the Presidency, I just can't.

You can consider me hopelessly naive, but I voted for Obama knowing full well that he was not going to be able to do much, and that he was more conservative than I, and his position is very close to how Hillary is/was.

I would vote for him again, if only to shut out the possibility of a President Palin/Romney/Trump.

I just can't do it...

[Maedhros]

20. Fear is the mind-killer [n/t]

[Xyzse]

27. It isn't even fear.

I calculate how probable a Republican win is, and if there is even a 20% chance that they would, I would vote for the Democrat, depending on how bad the Republican possibility is. I mean, back in the 90s, it would not have been so bad, but I posit that they have gone to the deep end, and they just don't know how to govern any more. Handing them any position means giving them legitimacy, and I am not willing to give them any.

[sufrommich]

7. Okie dokey. nt

[randys1]

8. I will work overtime to protect Women from dying in back alleys

and making sure Black people get to vote.

Dont worry, we got this with or without your help

[sufrommich]

12. +++1.

So tired of the "let it all burn down" crowd. Good riddance.

[JaneyVee]

9. Can we get a list of independent party accomplishments?.

[Capt. Obvious]

11. FUCK NADER

[hrmjustin]

10. You dropped in to tell us we are naive?

Can't wait till the next drop in.

[rhett o rick]

62. I might say that's projection. I think it's naive to think that supporting the billionaires

will set you free. The poverty rate has been growing and will continue as long as the billionaires run our government.

[mmonk]

13. To those who recommended this,

thank you so much. There is only so much sand left for us to hold onto from the corporate powers that be in this age.

[passiveporcupine]

55. You do realize Bernie is running as a dem candidate for POTUS?

Even he knows going independent is a death knell for the country, as it detracts votes from the dems and strengthens the repubs.

But you are not naive.

[nenagh]

14. Thank you mmonk for the DU hello..I spoke to a former employer here in Ontario..(I'm retired now)

He is a pharmacist part - owner of a very successful, privately owned (ie not Shoppers Drug etc) Pharmacy.
We never had spoken about politics before...but I said to him recently that I was very worried about the TPP, TTIP etc..

He said..'it's very bad..
Drug prices will rise,
Taxes will rise,
The $ provinces will pay for health care will rise,
The cost of insurance premiums will rise'.

Brand drug companies are very powerful.'

[mmonk]

15. Thank you for this post.

[Egnever]

41. Well goodness if your pharmacist said it.

It must be true!

[nenagh]

50. I am the retired pharmacist. I know the system.

But the man I refer to started the Pharmacy with 2 other partners maybe 15 years ago..

He works daily in the Pharmacy as a Pharmacist himself.

But he understands the economics of running the business..that is why I asked his opinion.

which ordinarily I would not do...

I do not believe that politics and professional day to day work..mix.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. I'm already an Independent voter. Always have been.

I registered as a Democrat in California in 1965. I registered as a Democrat in Oregon in 1982. I registered in Washington as a Democrat in 1993. But, Washington no longer registers by party so I'm now, official, an Independent. I'm a Democrat here because I say so.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

[H2O Man]

17. Hi there!

Recommended.

We all gotta do what we feel is right for us. So long as people are fighting the Good Fight.

[mmonk]

18. Yes.

I'm pretty sure that is what is most important for progress of the human race.

[bigwillq]

19. I have always voted candidate over party

so I guess I've always had an independent streak. Most of the time, those candidates I have voted for have been DEMs, but just because someone is a D, doesn't mean they will always get my vote. I am a bit fortunate to live in CT, where there is usually some good DEM candidates, and they usually always win.

Since we're sharing.

[mmonk]

22. I will never vote Republican in this

atmosphere in America but I definitely could vote independent or Green against a Republican ally from the corporate Democrats

[Maedhros]

21. I've been a registered Socialist for some time.

Losing the last shreds of emotional attachment to the Democratic Party has been enlightening and uplifting, like leaving an abusive spouse.

[mmonk]

23. I understand but I used to be so proud.

[Maedhros]

24. There was a time when the Democrats were indeed something of which to be proud.

That time has come and gone. Democrats now help bust unions, pass worker-hostile 'trade' agreements, wage wars of choice, criminalize journalism, 'reform' social security and support due-process-free political executions.

Better to be loyal to the admirable ideas they used to hold than to the hollow shell the Democratic Party is now.

[mmonk]

25. Yep. The darkness I can't countenance.

[Angry Dragon]

29. I agree

I think back to the 1956 GOP platform and find that more DEM than today's DEM leaders

[hifiguy]

43. ROCK ON!

No more rooting for laundry.

[hifiguy]

47. And there are people here who cheer them on.

There's an old Army acronym I learned from a veteran I once knew: BOHICA. You can connect the dots.

Principle comes first.

[Maedhros]

53. They have been trained to focus their hatred on the Republican Party

and to ignore the betrayals of their own Party. They are willing to sell out everything they believe in as long as it hurts the hateful Republicans.

A myopic, toxic attitude that guarantees ruin.

[hifiguy]

57. Yup.

The lack of ability to self-reflect is a definite indicator of anti intellectualism. Civilization cannot survive without consistently applied critical thinking and self-reflection. That's just the way it is. I didn't make it up.

Check these articles out, I think they are right up your alley:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201506/anti-intellectualism-is-killing-america

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wired-success/201407/anti-intellectualism-and-the-dumbing-down-america

[Maedhros]

61. I had already seen those :)

What is extremely disturbing is how "truth" is becoming partisan.

For example, Rand Paul can make a statement about how the ubiquitous surveillance state is dangerous, and DU will have hordes of posters step up to defend the surveillance state simply because Rand Paul attacked it.

What can we do in the face of such ignorance?

[NYC Liberal]

51. Why would Sanders want to become a Democrat if the Democratic Party is so terrible?

[geek tragedy]

26. Say hi to Ralph Nader for us, tell him he isn't missed nt

[mmonk]

32. Therein lies your naïveté. I have never

been a Nader voter.

[geek tragedy]

34. In the past, no. Also, 'naivete' does not mean what you think it means nt

[mmonk]

36. Sure I do. I'm a writer.

Naive is thinking just because you belong to a political party, it will choose your interest over a dollar.

[geek tragedy]

39. This presumes one views parties as principled entities with a consciousness

rather than an institution which can be used as a vehicle for good, and for bad.

Which is rather naïve.

[hifiguy]

38. That was cheap and uncalled for.

Not worth an alert but cheap, uncalled for and snotty.

[geek tragedy]

40. People should not expect hugs and kisses for pissing on Democrats

Of course, cheap shots at Democrats don't seem to raise your hackles.

[hifiguy]

42. Well, I tend towards concluding that the content of the policy

is of infinitely greater importance than the name on the uniform, particularly when an actual champion of traditional Democratic values is running for the Democratic nomination.

If you want to root for laundry, as Jerry Seinfeld so pithily put it, fine.

Don't expect everyone else to do the same.

ETA - I care far less about labels than ACTIONS, which are the only things that COUNT.

[geek tragedy]

45. there remains only one vehicle for implementing positive policy changes in this country.

If one wants to raise the minimum wage, or protect civil rights, or take climate change action, one must vote for the laundry.

[hifiguy]

48. And just what has been accomplished regarding voter disenfranchisement,

the war of police against black people, or climate change in the last six years? And why would it be any different next time with another "Sensible Centrist?"

[geek tragedy]

60. That you've failed to notice all of the positive developments in those fields

is not anyone else's fault.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/12/world/asia/china-us-xi-obama-apec.html?_r=0

U.S. and China Reach Climate Accord After Months of Talks

http://www.thenation.com/blog/181761/eric-holders-voting-rights-legacy

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/justice-dept-to-announce-new-rules-to-curb-racial-profiling-by-federal-law-enforcement/2014/12/07/e00eca18-7e79-11e4-9f38-95a187e4c1f7_story.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/06/eric-holder-ferguson-police_n_6819898.html

[Angry Dragon]

28. you might be able to sell your vote to a international corp

[Le Taz Hot]

30. Welcome to the largest and fast-growing voter registration category in the nation.

I've been one of those since 2004 after watching what they did to Dean, and since California has an open primary system, I don't have to re-register as a Democrat to vote for Bernie in the CA primary.

Oh, and may I just say to Dianne DINO Feinstein who voted to sell the rest of us out, once again, to the .001%: FUCK YOU, YOU FUCKITY FUCK!!!!

[hifiguy]

31. The supporters of the corporatists are dancing in the streets

and right here on DU. I too refuse to willingly walk the plank in the name of non-dissent. Jefferson would find that prospect appalling.

I am going to have to do something I have never done in more than a decade here - start an Ignore list.

[mmonk]

33. LOL. I understand.

[hrmjustin]

37. Who are the corporatists here?

[hifiguy]

44. TPP supporters, first of all. I could answer the question in more depth

but I like it here and I have no desire to get tombstoned, so I respectfully abstain from doing so.

[hrmjustin]

54. I am not a supporter of TTP but i don't call all supporters corpratists

I can't speak to why they support it.

I don't see any corpratist on this board.

[hifiguy]

58. There are TPP supporters on this board.

The TPP gives panels of corporate-owned attorneys the power to invalidate national, state and local laws that interfere with corporate profitability. That is not an opinion, that is a fact.

Therefore anyone who supports the TPP is an enabler and supporter of corporate feudalism/fascism.

[hrmjustin]

59. I agree it is a bad bill.

[LanternWaste]

46. I call positions and opinions other than mine "naive" also.

I call positions and opinions other than mine "naive" also. It allows us the pretense we're more learned and scholarly than those we disagree with... we can as such, better rationalize our lack of reflection and deny our biases. QED.

[Maedhros]

56. So you are in favor of the TPP? [n/t]

[rhett o rick]

63. I agree. We must trust the billionaires to take good care of us. Just look how well they've done

so far.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Welcome to the fold

[mmonk]

52. .

😊