Still don't think he's a used-car salesman?

[WilliamPitt]

TPA survived cloture and is about to pass.

TAA ... who knows? It's up to Mitch, thanks to Obama. Who cares about "trade adjusted" workers, anyway, right?

TPP ... coming down the pike one way or the other, and will sail thanks to TPA.

Next up: Keystone ... and the legacy will be secured.

Go ahead and yell at me if it comforts you.

[Hoyt]

1. Nope. Nor do I think he is going to sell us into slavery or the TPP will be as bad as some assert.

Don't think he is a POS as some have asserted, either.

[Logical]

2. Of course you dont! Nt

[LanternWaste]

18. And any relevance of your reply is still underwhelming.

And any relevance of your reply is still underwhelming.

(insert pretense below)

[Logical]

78. Hey, my buddy! Nt

[BeanMusical]

87. Lol!

Lol!

[pintobean]

166. !

!

[Logical]

192. good catch! :-)

[BeanMusical]

257. I agree.

I agree.

[maddiemom]

471. "Christening the sloop!" Great analogy.

[AllTooEasy]

303. BULLSHIT! House DEMS(Pelosi leading them) voted down TAA and...

...and it's support for "trade adjusted workers". That's a fact! It just happened days ago. How did you miss that?!

It was an absolutely STUPID miscalculation, now workers have to rely on the word of Repukes. Obama supported TAA. Thank Pelosi!

[zentrum]

363. Because it stole from

….Medicare. It was a boondoggle. And it was never going to retrain workers who lost jobs except for flipping burgers.

Thanks Pelosi.

[Romulox]

5. "This machine kills jobs..."

[appalachiablue]

431. +1

[djean111]

9. Oh, please. You are on record as hoping the TPP will be bad for Americans.

Yeah, I think it will be, and I think it will be just as bad for your poor Vietnamese farmers, because this is not country working with country, this is corporations over countries. That poor Vietnamese farmer thing is just a distraction.

[Hoyt]

19. Would love to see where I hope it's "bad for Americans." I am disgusted with xenophobia used to

oppose it.

[djean111]

30. Xenophobia? All I see, and all I have criticized, is the way that global corporate profits

will rule over all countries. You have said that we deserve to los jobs or get reduced wages because of what we have done to other countries. You are using xenophobia as a straw man - it is only you, really, with evident dislike of America.
Or are you saying that it is xenophobic to not want to lose American jobs and lower American wages and standard of living? Because, you know, that may happen, but no other country will get raised up. The corporations will keep that money. That is how they work, that is their purpose.

[Hoyt]

35. Yes, other countries will "get raised up," and not at America's expense.

[djean111]

49. You believe that. I do not. We both will have to wait and see. When the TPP is released in all

of its secretive corporate glory, we will have an idea. For someone who says well, it is still secret, you sure feel confident telling the rest of us what it will and will not do.

You think the cost of medicine is going to go down, for instance? Really? For anybody? Again, I am appalled at the giveaway to global corporations and banks, not "other countries".

[Stryder]

318. Gotta wonder if it will be released.

In all it's magnificent corparate cocksucking glory.

[Fast Walker 52]

465. right after that pile of corporate crap gets signed into law, of course

[BeanMusical]

107. Sure, and there's a pot of gold at the end of each rainbow.

[Plucketeer]

113. each CORPORATE rainbow. nt

[fasttense]

122. No other "free" trade agreement that Obama has gotten through congress has done that

So why should suddenly the "free" trade agreement Obama is keeping hidden from all of us do something grand and glorious?

It's all BS. A year from now, when the US is strangling from corporate control no one will hold you accountable for supporting this awful trade agreement. But we will all get to suffer because of people like you who provide cover for corporate stooges.

[Hoyt]

134. What, you think the Korean trade agreement has hurt the USA. I get the uniformed think

Last edited Tue Jun 23, 2015, 07:28 PM - Edit history (1)

it has cost American jobs. But, the people the uniformed listen too, calculate that using an flawed formula. To them, if our trade deficit with Korea increases $1 Billion it costs us about 6000 jobs.

But, that assumes first that a trade deficit costs us jobs, rather than sales of products made here or there. Second, and more importantly, it assumes we would have bough American goods if we had not bought Korean goods. But, it's more likely we would have bought Japanese, Chinese, German, etc., goods. Oh, I forgot, some aspects of the Korean deal haven't even kicked in yet, and it takes years for trade agreements to stabilize.

[druidity33]

272. A billion dollar increase in the GDP

can and often does still cost Americans "6,000(insert any number here)" jobs. The one thing has nothing to do with the other. You know they include toxic cleanups and brownfield remediation in the GDP calculation, right... along with every other thing that costs the environment and humans their lives (as long is someone is making money off it, it is in the GDP)? There are other metrics that better assess our societal health (see: http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116461/gpi-better-gdp-measuring-united-states-progress ). I would also hasten to add if Corporations are making that money due to a trade agreement, you can be damn sure small businesses in America are getting screwed. Most Americans will buy the goods that are half the price, not because they don't want to buy American, but because they can't afford the USA made stuff! Why is that? Because most Regular jobs have gone overseas.....

[Hoyt]

375. Small businesses who are involved in export/import business are supporting TPP.

I know, we pumped/dumped toxic stuff in air, water, everywhere for decades. Now, we are going to gripe about some poor country doing it to a much less extent as they try to progress. Typical American mentality -- "we can have nukes, you can't" type junk.

[dflprincess]

432. Yes, we pumped crap into the air and water for a long time

until enough people finally figured out just how bad it was for the environment and people and put a stop to a lot of it - though we continue to have to fight to keep the air and water clean.

Don't think of it as a double standard, think of it as other countries learning from our mistakes. The multinational corporations that move into these countries to exploit the cheap labor do enough harm, they should be expected to protect the environment. Unless, of course, you think people in poor countries shouldn't have clean air and water. Now that's typical corporate America mentality.

[Hoyt]

436. I think of it that we took more than our share of the world's wealth and resources, and now want to

say no to them. That ain't right. I'm fine with ensuring progress and environmental standards. I don't think we should hold them to the same standards so that they don't get a chance to progress.

There's a reason we are referred to as "Greedy Americans."

[dflprincess]

441. Besides, holding them to the same standards would cut into the profits of the corporations who are

exploiting the people working for them in these countries.

The whole point of this scam is to protect corporations, nothing in it will protect workers or allow them to "progress" any more than NAFTA did. The 1% will "progress" but the rest of us will regress.

[Hoyt]

446. It will keep corporations from taking a chance there, and that's what some Americans want.

If we hold them to higher standards than they exhibit now, and require progress in the future, everyone wins. Well, except for those who want us to keep everything.

[Mnpaul]

343. So we should adopt the President's hokey math?

where we only count the jobs created due to increased exports and not count the jobs lost to increased imports. We saw how their trade deficit math failed. They claimed it would increase sales and not the trade deficit.

According to U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC) estimates, KORUS would increase U.S. exports to South Korea by between $10–11 billion dollars and increase imports from South Korea by between $6–7 billion, improving the U.S. trade balance with South Korea by $4–5 billion. In actuality, in the year after KORUS took effect, domestic exports have fallen by $3.5 billion and our trade deficit with South Korea has increased by $5.8 billion.
http://www.epi.org/press/korus-cost-united-states-40000-jobs-korea/

Domestic exports fell and the trade deficit increased. Is that your formula for increased jobs here.

Sorry but many of us have heard this crap numerous times and it never comes true. The used car salesman analogy is spot on.

[Hoyt]

477. Trade deficits aren't always as bad.

You can read this article about how economists differ on the importance of trade deficits. Obviously some think it's bad, but others feel differently.

"Economists who consider trade deficits good associate them with positive economic developments, specifically, higher levels of income, consumer confidence, and investment. They argue that trade deficits enable the United States to import capital to finance investment in productive capacity. Far from hurting employment, they believe that trade deficits financed by foreign investment in the United States help to boost U.S. employment.

Some economists see trade deficits as mere expressions of consumer preferences and as immaterial. These economists typically equate economic well being with rising consumption. If consumers want imported food, clothing, and cars, why shouldn't they buy them? That range of choices is part of a successful economy. . . . . ."

http://www.infoplease.com/cig/economics/trade-deficits-bad-good.html

[davidpdx]

473. I can tell you directly as a result of the KFTA more American products are showing up in Korea

Some examples are micro-brew beers and wines. My wife and I are able to enjoy a bottle of Oregon wine together, something I wasn't able to find for a long time (damn thing is expensive as all hell I pay like $23 for a bottle that is half that in Oregon). Tillamook Cheese has been available for years. All of these things aren't made in Korea (though some local micro brews are starting to show up they are very small). The Koreans are scared as shit about the US importing rice because it will be much cheaper than the subsidized rice that was available.

I don't support all free trade agreements and the TPP is one I have adamantly opposed (I've been bugging both my senator and representative).

[Hoyt]

476. Thanks for the update.

[Ed Suspicious]

130. If we just wait long enough. If we just suffer lost jobs and decreased living standard long enough

the correction will be made. Maybe 20-30 years well all make the same meager wages. Yay capitalism.

[fasttense]

188. Exactly

I'm still waiting for all those benefits Mexican workers and US workers were suppose to get from NAFTA? Where are all the rich Mexicans? Where are all the goods and services Mexicans were suppose to buy from the US? Why are all the Mexicans abandoning their farms and working for pennies in factories or coming to the US to wok as migrant labor when they use to make half decent livings working Mexican farms?

Well maybe if we keep waiting, Mexican and US worker will eventually get the wages they deserve for all their hard labor... maybe not. In the meantime, the corporations are just making billions in profits, getting their rewards right up front, while we have to wait and wait and wait.....

[kath]

193. Bingo.

[hifiguy]

208. Quit bringing up actual, provable, extrinsic facts.

That's not fair!!!

[sabrina 1]

227. Just point us to the part in the TPP that says that!

You sound like someone who was allowed to get a peek at this Secret Deal. Since they are hiding it from the rest of the 800,000,000 people who will be affected by it, I would like to know that you have something concrete to back your statement. Something that will stop over 6,000 Corporations from challenging our Labor Laws, our minimum wage, so hard fought for, laws.

From the leaks, since I am not privileged enough to actually see the text of this secret deal, it appears that you are wrong. And from cases already taken to their Corporate Court (you know they will have their own Corporate courts, lawyers and judges) it appears you could not be more wrong.

But if you know something we do not, them please share that information.

[tularetom]

262. It's a zero sum game

If other countries get raised up, it has to be at somebody's expense. And it won't be at the corporations expense, so who is left?

Corporations +++
Third world workers +
American workers - - - -
________
Sum 0

[Fuddnik]

281. I just hope you're young enough to live with the consequences.

I was already trade dealed out of a job in 2001. TAA was a farce and a pipe dream.

Next year is probably my last election. And my last vote goes to Sanders or nobody!

Good luck with your trade adjusted life.

[snagglepuss]

415. Isnt "rising tide lifts all boats" Reagan favorite economy theory?

If not him some other neocon and it's a theory that has been disproved repeatedly.

[Hoyt]

417. There's no reason for it not to work with proper taxes,minimum wage,

healthcare, college help, etc. A sinking tide darn sure won't help.

[truedelphi]

455. How will they get raised up? Countries where right now, people can actually

Afford prescribed drugs, and then find the TPP will increase the prices exponentially?

Countries that have been able to ban the GM vomitoxin-contaminated, Monsanto-crappola, and will have to have it imported into their nation, so that their people can live on Zantac and Prilosec and tums.

Yeah TPP and Yeah for the good little capitalists like you Hoyt.

[Live and Learn]

459. Really? Doesn't seem to have worked that way thus far.

Report: Economic Growth Failing to Help World's Poorest Kids

Global resolve to rescue impoverished children from lives of squalor, disease and hunger has fallen short, with economic development in many countries still leaving millions of the most vulnerable behind, according to a UNICEF report released Tuesday.

The data show a bleak situation: The world's poorest children are almost twice as likely to die before their 5th birthday as children from wealthier homes, and the proportion of those dying within days of being born is even increasing.

"This is outrageous," UNICEF's Executive Director Anthony Lake told reporters in a teleconference highlighting the report's assessment of U.N. development goals laid out in 2000 for targeting poverty, hunger, gender inequality, illiteracy and other areas.

While the world has seen unprecedented economic growth in the last 25 years, the benefits have rolled out unevenly with nations focusing on national data averages that can obscure enormous inequalities between the rich and the poor, the report says.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/unicef-economic-growth-failing-worlds-poorest-kids-31959375

[clarice]

44. Hello Hoyt......

I have a question about your post. To the best of my knowledge, xenophobia is an irrational
fear or hatred toward things that are foreign in nature. Isn't there a distinct difference between
National loyalty and xenophobia?

[Hoyt]

91. I consider an attitude of America First, the heck with foreign poor, part of the definition.

Last edited Tue Jun 23, 2015, 03:00 PM - Edit history (1)

You can define it as you wish too.

[chervilant]

190. I like to play with words, too, Hoyt. However:

From Google:

xen·o·pho·bi·a
ˌzenəˈfōbēə,ˌzēnəˈfōbēə/
noun
intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries.

From Urban Dictionary:

The term 'xenophobia' is typically used to denote a phobic attitude towards foreigners or strangers, or even of the unknown. Racism in general is described as a form of xenophobia.

From Dictionary.com:

an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange.

I looked at two or three additional definitions, which were almost identical to those herein above. Nowhere did I find "an attitude of America Frist, the heck with foreign poor," as a "part of the definition." I'm sure you are aware that random individuals cannot arbitrarily redefine words, no matter how much it suits a personal agenda.

[Skittles]

337. gawd, not that tired piece of SHIT repuke meme

these assholes don't care about OUR POOR FOLK but you think they care about the "FOREIGN POOR" - gawd, ENOUGH ALREADY

[BeanMusical]

344. +1000

[Scuba]

398. + another

[WillyT]

405. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!

[Skittles]

430. I swear

who the FUCK do these TPP pimps think they are fooling?

[ctsnowman]

467. Exactly!

[Rex]

278. It is the fear of people from other countries, which has nothing to do with the TPP.

He and a few others strangly use and say the exact same thing at times. They all use the xeno definition wrong. I guess an education does pay off.

[sabrina 1]

69. We have seen the leaks and WE KNOW it will be bad for Americans. Now please tell us what you

know about it that we don't that causes you to have so much faith in it.

Never mind, you can't because your President would not allow you to see it.

I go on facts, not faith, and what I know which is only a tiny part of it, is enough to know we are giving up rights to Multi National Corporations and that is a despicable thing to do.

[Hoyt]

100. I've seen as much as you, I've seen the goals for the agreement, and I see no reason to

believe Obama is bent on selling you and I into slavery.

I also believe that the leadership of all the other countries party to the TPP and TPIP -- what is it 50 or so, including most of Bernie Sanders' favorite Scandinavian countries -- would not be in it if they believed it was bad for their countries.

It may be, that all the major countries are trying to see if something good for the longhaul can be worked out. I still believe if the best Obama can do is not good for America, it will not be presented to Congress.

[sabrina 1]

112. What do you mean 'it won't be presented to Congress' if it isn't the best Obama can do?

The whole fight right now is make sure Congress is NOT presented with it. Fast Tracking means that Congress gives UP its right to change all the bad stuff including what we already know, or to add amendments to fix anything that is bad for this country.

Are you seriously supporting Congress having its hands tied that way when they finally get to see this secret Corporate written deal?

Like I said, I am not a faith based person. I want to SEE what my Reps are trying to hide from me. Because you do NOT hide things you are NOT ashamed of.

And I believe those Dems who have had a glimpse of it under Orwellian restrictions, who tell us that 'if the people Knew what was in it, they would oppose it'

[BeanMusical]

118. +1

[truebrit71]

121. Some people just REFUSE to see the forest for the trees...

...it really is un-fucking-believable...

[BeanMusical]

204. It's willful ignorance.

Or something el$e.

[Hoyt]

129. You really need to think about what you just posted. TPP goes to Congress, the will vote No or

Yes.

But it only goes to Congress if Obama thinks it is good for America. The TPA is a negotiating aspect. No country will sign on to an agreement that they think our Congress -- and the equivalent elsewhere -- are going to make political hay out of it and debate every little issue from font size, to most substantive issues.

Congress won't have it's hand tied. Frist, they can withdraw fast track authority if any final agreement doesn't meet the criteria in the TPA. Second, Congress can vote No, which would end it, or send it back for renegotiation. Or Congress can call up Obama and say, "Look, you gotta see if you can change these things, or we are going to vote No."

I get that even though Obama has done nothing to indicate he would sell you and I into slavery, you think he will.

[sabrina 1]

135. What does 'fast tracking' mean to you? Why did Democrats REFUSE to give it to BUSH who tried

the same thing Obama is trying right now in 2007? It failed because we Dems do not support the fast tracking of trade bills, or at least we SAID we didn't when Bush was trying it.

[truebrit71]

136. Wow....talk about just not getting it....

Fuck me sideways...No they can't withdraw fast track, they just voted to authorize it for fucks sake They just voted to pass Fast Track do you think they're now going to vote no when the deal comes up for a vote?

Holy Fucking Shit!

[Hoyt]

157. It includes criteria the TPP must meet, or they can withdraw FT authority, if it is similar to the

Bill the Senate approved weeks ago. I think it is, FFS. Look it up.

[sabrina 1]

233. Thanks, I give up trying to explain this to people who are determined to protect their

favorite politicians over the rights of the people. There is simply no end to the excuses and wishful thinking that I blame for the fact that we are where we are.

Team politics has proven to be very useful to those who are in the last stages of their Corporate Coup. When we are at the point where a Dem, not a Repub president sees nothing wrong with taking away Congress' Constitutional right to legislate on behalf of the people, leaving the people with no Representation, and hand it over to ONE PERSON, the coup has to be almost complete. And still there are defenders of this abomination.

[aggiesal]

143. What are you talking about? ...

"First, they can withdraw fast track authority if any final agreement doesn't meet the criteria in the TPA ..."

Once they vote in Fast Track authority, congress can no longer withdraw the authority for next 6 years.
And any president only needs to state that a treaty or agreement, with any other country, from this point forward, that has any trade clause it it, can now be completely painted as a trade agreement. Thus fast-tracking those agreements as well.

This is complete bull-$hit

[Hoyt]

169. You guys really need to keep up with the TPA passed. Honest to goodness, you should be embarrassed.

The TPA passed several seeks ago by the Senate states that any trade agreement submitted to Congressmust meet parameters and fulfill objectives spelled out by Congress.

Before any agreement is can be put to a vote in Congress, the final details of the agreement are published and made available to the public for a minimum of five months, and possibly as many as nine months.

If the concluded trade agreement meets Congress’s parameters and fulfills its objectives, legislation to implement the agreement is considered without amendments on an expedited timetable by an up-or-down vote.

If the agreement fails to meet Congress’s parameters or fulfill its objectives, it can be taken off the so-called fast-track through a resolution of disapproval. And, ultimately, members and senators can vote “no” if they don’t like the contents of the agreement.

As on poster who hasn't kept up posted to me -- For F%#ks Sake.

[BeanMusical]

214. Oh boy.

[Hoyt]

223. Read the darn thing if you don't believe it.

[BeanMusical]

232. Fox Mulder, is that you?

[Hoyt]

313. Read the darn bill.

[BeanMusical]

320. It's classified and those leaks are all fake, dontcha know?

[aggiesal]

274. And they're voting on what today?

The bill that was passed several weeks ago was voted down in the house.

The new bill coming out of the house has to be re-voted on in the Senate.
Do you know what's in that bill?

Do you honestly expect the bill to actual fail, after the TPA is passed?

[Hoyt]

314. If it is bad it will fail. More likely, Obama won't submit it. Actually, the House did not

vote that bill down. They voted the TAA down.

[aggiesal]

361. If it is bad it will fail. ...

[Mnpaul]

353. They can revoke fast track if reporting requirements aren't met

If the President fails to report what jobs will be lost and what laws need to be nullified, Orrin Hatch and Paul Ryan can put a stop to it. As far as I can see, those are the only reason to remove fast track. If you know of others in the bill, please quote them with page numbers.

[Ed Suspicious]

147. And they don't even consider for an instant that we will again have a right wing president.

Imagine, if you will, what a Scott Walker administration might do with fast track authority.

[Enthusiast]

158. I'm sure Scott would have our best interests in mind.

[BeanMusical]

325. I have faith that Obama does!1!

[Mnpaul]

367. They don't even consider that this puts Orrin Hatch and Paul Ryan in charge

right now. But I'm not expecting much from someone who buys into their BS and even goes as far as posting press releases from these two here at DU.

[Hoyt]

371. Well, Ed, we better stop trying to undermine the candidate that can keep that from happening.

I can imagine what a Scott Walker admin would mean. For that reason I am not supporting Bernie Sanders -- whom I like and will support if he wins primaries -- but who can't win the general election unless something drastic happens in the next 17 months.

[Angry Dragon]

206. yes

[aggiesal]

132. You write "... leadership of all the other countries party to the TPP and

TPIP -- what is it 50 or so, including most of Bernie Sanders' favorite Scandinavian countries ..."

From the US Government website on the TPP

https://ustr.gov/tpp/overview-of-the-TPP

[Font color=Red]The United States is negotiating the TPP with 11 other like-minded countries (Australia, Brunei Darussalam, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, and Vietnam) that share a commitment to concluding a high-standard, ambitious agreement and to expanding the initial group to include additional countries throughout the Asia-Pacific region.[/font]

Where does it say anything about Scandinavian Countries?

[Hoyt]

137. Sorry I meant TTIP. If you knew what it meant, you'd have recognized my error and YOURS.

Sanders' Scandinavian countries are part of that.

BTW, I'd love to see us like Scandinavian countries.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

228. Why do you keep saying 'selling us into slavery'?

The rest of us are talking about lost jobs. Slavery is a forced job, not a lost one.

He's selling us into poverty, not slavery.

[BeanMusical]

243. Nobody mentioned slavery. This poster have a wild imagination

and likes to put words into other people's mouths. Lame trick.

[LondonReign2]

277. Because by throwing out "slavery" and "xenophobia" he can paint

TPP opponents in an especially bad light. Basic propaganda technique. Never mind that he tries to redefine xenophobia to meet his own needs.

[Hoyt]

378. No, most folks posting in this thread and the hundreds of others have posted about corporations

enslaving us all, if TPP passes. I bet I can find where you have said the same, or darn close.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

461. I don't think you'd win that bet, unless you really stretch the definition of 'darn close'.

Slavery isn't in my rhetorical lexicon, I think using it cheapens actual slavery, so I specifically avoid it, along with certain other words like 'Holocaust'.

[turbinetree]

475. http://tradetreachery.com/

http://tradetreachery.com/

[PatrickforO]

183. OK, let's just talk a moment about 'free trade.' As a labor economist, I can tell you that

the United States lost nearly 800,000 jobs, many good jobs in manufacturing, because of NAFTA. Now, based on what we now KNOW about NAFTA and the deleterious effect it had on American jobs, let me ask you two questions based on your assertion that the TPP 'will not be as bad' as some assert:

1. If TPP is such a good thing, why do the American people not get to see it prior to Congress voting on it, and why aren't members of Congress allowed to take notes or make copies of pages when 'allowed' to view it, and finally why was the 'fast track' necessary?

2. If as Obama tells us, the TPP has 'strong' protections for workers (which it does NOT, as I have read what is available through WikiLeaks) then WHY is a TAA training program necessary to help Americans who lose jobs as a result of its passage?

Free trade is bad for working Americans, and exploitative of workers in third world countries (see the NUMEROUS articles about Nike and its Indonesian workforce).

I like Obama and actually volunteered for both his campaigns, BUT he is TOTALLY wrong about the TPP, and equally wrong about how he's trying to 'sell' it to us without us even having seen it.

[Hoyt]

211. Well, as an economist, you are aware that some jobs - like "buggy whip makers" -

can't be protected, except in the short-run. You don't let those few jobs - which will be changed/eliminated/transitioned anyway - hold the rest of the economy back. You do what you can to help them find jobs that are not in jeopardy, like 98+% of the workforce have.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

237. buggly whip makers?

Exactly which lost American jobs were lost because no one makes or needs the products they make any more?

And which other country is now making 'buggy whips' for America?

[LondonReign2]

279. Ah yes, his "buggy whip" lie, oft repeated

If such jobs are going away anyways, they have nothing to do with the passage of the TPP-- but he likes to conflate the two to throw up a smokescreen.

A sad lie, but profitable for his employers.

[PatrickforO]

414. Sorry, I don't buy that.

First of all, 800,000 jobs is not a 'few.' Secondly, the manufacturing jobs lost were good jobs that paid a living wage, but were replaced by low wage service jobs, while at the same time due to loopholes in the US tax code executive compensation reached stratospheric levels as wages for everyone else remained stagnant or lost ground.

Your 'buggy maker' argument is a fallacy because the jobs that were lost were exported, again due to Republican changes to the US corporate tax code. Now, these same corporations are holding trillions of dollars offshore that is as yet untaxed by the United States. Yet we are still the primary market. Did you know that Wells Fargo, Paccar, Mattel, GE and about 26 other Fortune level companies haven't paid US income taxes for several years?

Yet, the Republicans KNEW the TPP would cost lots of American jobs, and so took money from Medicare for a TAA training program for these displaced workers. They are also telling us that we must raise the retirement age and privatize Social Security and also forego other programs that actually help us.

You know, I pay a lot of taxes, and instead of $1.1 trillion going for the F-35 fighter that can't yet fly in lightning storms, I'd MUCH rather have good roads, single payer healthcare, free tuition at state colleges, strong safety nets, and stronger financial and environmental regulations. Yet, instead of that, we have the TPP, which will further drive American wages down, cost American workers what good jobs are left, negate our environmental and labor regulations, further boost executive salaries at the expense of everyone else and further exacerbate the wealth inequity that has nearly driven the American middle class extinct.

So don't tell me that the TPP is going to end some antiquated jobs that were going to be lost anyway. That's simply bunkum. The truth is that we need to change corporate charters so that the fiduciary responsibility of CEOs is expanded to include all stakeholders, including labor, and eliminate the false concept of 'externalities.'

When it comes to free trade, we're going the WRONG direction!

[kath]

426. Thank you!

Great post. You nailed it on so many points.

[sulphurdunn]

306. "insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."Albert Einstein

Of course no one on Wall Street or in the halls of political power is crazy enough to expect different results from NAFTA on Steroids. They expect more of the same in spades and are going to get it. I can understand corporatists and their political whores fighting and bribing for this, but no one who works for a living can justify supporting it unless he or she is delusional.

[Spirochete]

324. Did you get your bonus yet?

or does that wait until it's actually voted in?

[Ken Burch]

392. Woody Guthrie would never back any corporate trade deal. n/t.

[Hoyt]

404. It's not a corporate trade deal, and it is good for foreign countries too.

If not, they would not be negotiating.

Guthrie worked for corporations, like Folkways, and was even employed by a tobacco compay to host their radio show.

Do you work for a corporation?

[Ken Burch]

424. It's good for the rich in other countries.

And it's good for the rich here. Nothing that gives corporations a right to challenge the laws passed by democratic governments can ever be good for the people. What's good for the 1% is never good for the people.

Yes, Woody worked FOR corporations...that doesn't mean he'd be for letting them refuse to follow laws, which this deal specifically does(that's what letting them challenge government policies as "industry subsudies" means...it can never mean anything good for workers, or the jobless, or the environment).

"Beating China" is not worth raping the Earth. It doesn't matter whether China has more trade with other countries than we do, unless you're a billionaire.

[azmom]

434. NAFTA put my father out of business.

He had a small orchard in Mexico and grew Mangos. Many more stories like my dads.

[Hoyt]

440. Sorry about your dad. There are Mexicans getting jobs at foreign auto plants at $8 an hour vs.

the 50 cents a day they would have made without trade agreements too.

If NAFTA was so bad for the country as a whole, why are they back wanting to participate in TPP?

My granddad was put out of business when it was no longer economical to run a small diary farm. Similarly, my dad was put out of business when oil prices and interest rates spiked in the 1970s. My late wife lost her job when state government computerized the kind of stuff she did. I left a similar job when I saw the same thing happening and had an opportunity for something new. Yeah all that hurt, but that's just life in the 20/21st century.

[azmom]

469. You should be ashamed of your ignorance.

[Hoyt]

438. 2500 trade agreements since 1959 have had those same tribunals in them. But, now it's suddenly an

issue.

[Ken Burch]

447. Most of us didn't know about them until recently.

What possible justification can there be to let the rich appeal to an international body to remove laws passed by an elected democratic government-if they can do that, elections become pointless, because the elected governments no longer get to have the last word on anything that matters.

[Hoyt]

450. Well the tribunal is run under UN and WTO rules. And,

Last edited Wed Jun 24, 2015, 01:11 AM - Edit history (1)

the one judge is picked by corporation, one by country, and the other by mutual agreement.

That's better than going up against a biased court like say Mississippi. The countries agree to the dispute resolution mechanism because they know badly needed foreign investment will likely go elsewhere if they can't get a fair hearing. Corporations are not going to invest big money if the country can expropriate their investment at a countries whim.

[gregcrawford]

413. I hope you got a taste for crow...

... cuz you gonna eat a pile of it.

[Joe Turner]

453. did a flashing light go off on your monitor

Mr. Hoyt always ready to do damage control for the powers that be with the spin "who are going to believe Obama or your lying eyes". You know this is getting real old with you.

[Romulox]

3. What we have to come to grips with is this: corporate control is what rightwingers support.

Shame on us for allowing the corporatists into the "big tent".

[Betty Karlson]

131. Reconstruct the tent, then!

This tent is 1% perfect and 99 % just getting by.

[FiveGoodMen]

315. Shame on us for allowing the corporatists into the "big tent".

Boy, if that ain't the truth!

I hereby offer my open, unmitigated hatred to all who used that phrase as a way to fool well-meaning people into holding the door open for the invading horde of corporatists.

[truedelphi]

457. I am not sure that "we" had anything to do with it.

The people at the top that have been elected have sold us out, and the fact that they lied in total while campaigning for their offices is not something we could have anticipated.

[KamaAina]

4. POSUCS has attained acronymic status.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026856535

[WilliamPitt]

12. I like to pitch in.

[stonecutter357]

460. i bet you can't find the courage are fortitude

to call him a used-car salesman to his face.

[Hekate]

146. Ah yes: "The POSUCS saved my eye. Again." That was an excellent use of the term.

[Erose999]

269. What, pray tell, is a POSUCS? I've been away from DU for a couple weeks.

[dreamnightwind]

308. From an old OP by Will Pitt

Also this here OP you are reading, he called Obama a piece of shit used car salesman and caused a DU storm. Now he's here at it again, shame on him! (I kid, I would not use those words but I share his assessment of the president).

LOL at your tagline, had never seen that before.

[KamaAina]

317. No, in this thread, he's calling him simply a "used-car salesman".

[dreamnightwind]

327. My bad, a UCS then, not a POSUCS

Does ths UCS analogy even apply here? I don't know.

They aren't even bothering, for the most part, to sell it.

I think we're being rectally force-fed this new trade agreement, they know we don't want it but don't care since the people (corporations really) with all the money want it. BOHICA.

[MineralMan]

6. Not going to yell.

Contact your representative and Senators about their upcoming vote on the TPP. That will do more than calling the President a "used car salesman."

I'm looking forward to seeing what's actually in the agreement. Once I do, I'll decide how I feel about it and let my representative and senators what I think.

I recommend everyone do the same.

[Hoyt]

8. +1

[chalmers]

15. Are you absurd? You think your Reps really listen to you?

That's cute that you think that.

[MineralMan]

38. Well, my congressional representative

knows me. She does listen. I've helped her with her last three campaigns. My Senators, not as much, but I've met both of them and have chatted with them about issues.

I communicate regularly with them and get responsive replies, rather than form letters. Maybe it's the fact that I actively work on campaigns and in the Democratic (DFL) party organization in Minnesota.

If yours aren't listening, maybe there's something you can do to make yourself better known to them.

[chalmers]

46. You equate a positive response to them glad handing you?

Man do they have your number.

[MineralMan]

48. You do not know me, clearly.

In time, you may know me better.

[jwirr]

115. That is one thing that MM can be sure of. Both Amy Klobuchar and Al Franken voted no on every

vote on this bill. And I expect them to on the last part as well. My representative Rick Nolan also voted no. I'm not sure who is MM's rep.

[MineralMan]

201. Betty McCollum is my rep. She has voted Nay as well

on all of this. She will continue to do so. My Congress folks are great. All of them.

[jwirr]

238. I figured it was either her of Keith Ellison. Both very good reps.

[MineralMan]

240. Yes, they are, absolutely!

[hifiguy]

216. Some do.

Most don't. MM is correct about McCollum, his rep, and there are some others, like Keith Ellison, my rep.

They are few and far between, though.

[MineralMan]

242. Yes. They're both very accessible and willing to listen.

Thanks!

[hifiguy]

254. One thing is great about living in the Twin Cities.

The House members have been first rate as long as I can remember. Don Fraser, Marty Sabo and Keith on the Mpls side and Bruce vento and Betty on the StP side. And our senators have usually been above average as well: Humphrey, Mondale, Wellstone, Franken, Dayton, Klobuchar, even Dave Durenberger, who was the biggest Repub thorn in Raygun's side for quite a while. Yeh, Grams, Boschwitz and Coleman, but only Boschwitz was around more than one term. And I am old enough that my first vote for POTUS was for Jimmy Carter.

[MineralMan]

259. I only moved to MN in 2004.

I've been very pleased, in general, since then. Once we got rid of Governor Thin Polenta, anyhow. I'm relieved that Bachmann is gone, although her replacement is an asshole, too.

[hifiguy]

266. That is surprising.

I was born and raised here, and you have that calm, steady-Eddie nature/demeanor that is very much a Minnesota thing, as our very own national treasure Garrison Keillor has so often pointed out.

[MineralMan]

291. Hmm...I was the same in CA.

Just who I am, I guess.

[hifiguy]

293. A Minnesotan-born

in the wrong state.

[WilliamPitt]

24. Heh

[99Forever]

26. And while I am at it...

...I'll order up my unicorn.

Jeebus effen cripes.


Thd fucking disconnect is amazing.

[MineralMan]

50. While you're at what?

[99Forever]

55. Calling bought and paid for corporate tools...

....pretending they give a flying fuck what us prols want or need.

[jwirr]

125. If our MN senators are bought it is by our unions. Notice I said OUR.

[MineralMan]

221. I'm from Minnesota

Our Senators voted NAY. So did my congressional rep.

They do give a flying fuck. How about yours?

[99Forever]

241. Did it matter?

Just enough traitors to get the shit thru. AGAIN.

Kabuki Theater for the gullible.

[MineralMan]

244. Matters to me.

How did your Senators vote? You skipped that question.

We work very hard here to elect progressive people to Congress. They reward that work by being exactly that - progressive.

Accusations of treason are very serious. I think you may be overusing the word "traitor," actually. There's an entire spectrum of political positions in the United States. The voters in every state elect their representative, based on their positions.

I don't use the word "traitor." I just disagree with many positions that are held by our legislators.

[99Forever]

390. Treason?

Perhaps before your next lecture on language, you should try consulting a dictionary as to ALL of this uses of the word you are making a weak ass attempt at bloviating on.

[hifiguy]

246. I usually agree with you, 99, but not here.

We are fortunate to have some fine congressional representatives from Minnesota. It is sad that so many people have rubber-stamp corporate tools. But that does not mean that there are not good people out there. It only means that there are not enough of them in elective office and that is a bigger question than can be addressed right here right now.

[99Forever]

389. Did either Klobachar or Franken put a hold on the TPA vote?

Or any other Democratic Senator, for that matter? This COULD have been stopped, dead in it's tracks, by ANY ONE of them. None stepped up. Not a single one of them. They chose Kabuki Theater instead.

Tired of getting gamed yet? I sure as fuck am.

[merrily]

57. Will it? Do you believe a few hundred or a few thousand contacts out of a population of

350 million, give or take, will change anyone's vote? If that were the case, we would have had a strong public option. Calls and emails vs. party loyalty plus generous lobbyists?

Have you once heard a rep ask his or his constitutents to let him or her know how to vote? I haven't. I have heard them ask me to call the other guy or gal, though.

[MineralMan]

62. I can tell you this much: Posting on DU has less chance of influencing

any member of Congress's vote.

Both of my Senators and my representative have voted against TPA. They will continue to do so, and all three will vote against TPP, as well. I, like many others, have communicated our wishes to them. Did that make a difference? You tell me.

None of them read DU, though. I've asked them.

[merrily]

66. That is not an answer to the question I asked.

[MineralMan]

71. See, I can't answer your question.

I don't know anyone in Congress well enough to ask that question directly. I do know my congressional rep well enough, though, to ask her questions about positions in person when I have a chance to talk to her. In every case, her answers to me have been followed up with votes that reflected her answer. I don't get much face time with my Senators, though. An occasional brief conversation is about it.

So, although I can't answer your question with any degree of certainty, I do communicate regularly with my representatives, both state and federal. In some cases, I suppose my opinion is simply tallied. In other cases, however, I have received replies that were specific and to the point I raised. In most cases, the people I'm communicating share my point of view. That's why I supported them. So, it may be that my communications are just pro forma.

I will continue to communicate with legislators, though. It's something I can do. I'll also continue to post on DU, for the same reason.

[merrily]

75. You could have answered it had you chosen to. My question was about what YOU believe. Never mind.

[MineralMan]

80. Yes, I believe they listen to me. I don't believe that mine is the only voice

they hear, though. That would be exceptionally egotistical of me.

However, both Senators Franken and Klobuchar voted Nay in today's vote, which was my advice to them, as well. Did I influence them on this? Probably not. Will I thank them for their vote? Yes, I will. In fact, I'll be emailing them both today, as I did to thank Betty McCollum for her vote earlier in the House.

Here on DU, we are often asked to call or otherwise communicate with our elected officials. I've been doing that for decades. It is something I can do in support of my opinions.

[merrily]

93. I communicate as well, but I don't think it does a thing. Warren is one of my Senators. I even

emailed her, one of the earliest and most public and persistent critics of this bill and how it's been managed, along with Markey and my rep. But, how many calls urging her to vote for it would have made her change her mind? I don't think Massachusetts is home to enough adults to have made her change her mind.
'
My point is, we should do whatever we can. However, we should not kid ourselves that calling or emailing is changing anyone's vote any more than we should kid ourselves that posting is changing the world. Both are dangerous for they give us a false sense of having done something effective. By "us" I don't mean you and me. I mean any of us.

[MineralMan]

99. I think that getting the right people elected is the key.

That's why I'm heavily involved in electoral and GOTV activism. My communications during their terms of office is merely reinforcement. If we work to select and elect the right people, we have an impact on the results. That's where my main political efforts are focused. I do follow up, however, between elections.

[merrily]

104. Well, I do that, too. The Massachusetts delegation is not shabby.

[MineralMan]

117. I'll say this, in closing:

I think that attempting to influence any legislator who is not from your district or state is a complete waste of time. I don't do it. I limit my communications to those I have helped to elect, and they know that I helped. I wouldn't waste a minute on communicating with any others.

I know that my congresswoman knows me. She calls me by name when I run into her at various events. We have talked often. We have the most influence with our own congressional representatives, since they represent the smallest number of people on the national level. Neither Senator Franken or Klobuchar knows me on sight. I wouldn't expect them to. I run into them at various functions, too, but those conversations are very brief. I still write to them, though.

At the state level, I know my state legislators personally. It's easy to do that. They are accessible and know those who have helped them during their campaigns. They may be in Congress some day, too.

[merrily]

197. Markey and Warren are not as accessible as you might think.

For one thing, it's a pretty open secret that Markey hasn't actually lived in Massachusetts for some time. However, if one goes to fundraisers, yes, one can get face time, a handshake or more, depending. That still doesn't mean they're going to vote a certain way because I and others like me ask them to. My US rep is more accessible. State and local people are much more accessible. Again, that does not mean that they take my calls the way they'd take a large donors.

We've wandered from the question, which was: would our calls and emails change the minds of our US Senators and our House Reps. I don't think so and, furrther, I think believing they do is potentially dangerous to us.

[MineralMan]

199. Well, with my legislators, I rarely want them to change their minds

about stuff. I agree with them on almost every issue. I'm just reinforcing that with my communications.

[merrily]

203. The same with me, for the most part. But, I've been trying to make a very different point

and for what I believe is an important reason.

[jwirr]

127. Are you from MN? That is where both MM and I are from. From my experience with my elected

officials here in MN he is right.

[merrily]

189. Right about what? He's said he doesn't know if calls and emails change votes.

Because a liberal senator votes the way you would like does not mean your calls caused that. I am from Massachusetts, as my post said. I think Warren is going to vote against that TPP no matter how many callers beg her to vote for it. And when she does vote against it, I am not going to kid myself that my email caused that.

He also said getting the right people elected is the key and I agreed with that.

[jwirr]

236. Well you might be right but the last time I called the worker who answered the phone listened and

then just laughed - said he is at it right now. We have had so many calls today that we are not even considering anything else.

None of us believe that one call from one person makes all the difference. As Bernie says it is mobilizing that makes the difference. When I was working in an Iowa Congressman's office in the 70s we considered one call from a caller to be equal to 40 calls. Not too long ago I heard that it is one call = 400 calls from people who do not bother to call in but think the same way.

Plus when you are known personally you are more likely to get through. I have been an advocate for persons with developmental disabilities for many years. My congress people both on the state and federal level knew who I am and that I know what I am talking about is from a personal level.

[Adrahil]

79. GTFO...

... with all that being reasonable and shit.

Don't you know we need to be angry NOW!!!!?????

[MineralMan]

83. I've never found anger to be of much use in

national politics, somehow. I prefer expressing myself rationally and with supporting information. But, that's just me.

[Adrahil]

85. Yeah, but you can't be a DU celebrity that way!

You gotta become Ed Anger and call the President a POS if you want to be internet famous!

[MineralMan]

90. Yabbut, being a DU celebrity isn't really a goal of mine.

I'd rather be a DU whipping boy. So far, I've been successful at that.

[lark]

98. The part about the corporate tribunals

is being kept secret for 4 years after the signing. You won't know the caveats and that's the whole plan.
Nothing good is kept this secret. Why wouldn't Obama and the Dems want this advertised if they thought we'd be happy about it? They know they are screwing us, so have to keep it hidden.

[1StrongBlackMan]

159. What and ruin a good speculative frenzy? +1. n/t

[magical thyme]

209. if what has already been shown of TPP courtesy of wikileaks isn't enough

than you likely will accept anything that TPP contains.

[MineralMan]

226. Will I? No, I won't.

I'll look at the whole package, knowing that I will probably not agree with parts of it. Multi-national trade agreements always include stuff I don't like. They're multi-national, aren't they. Give and take is part of all such agreements.

I'll be looking at the pros and cons of the entire thing, won't I?

Still, my own Congressional reps voted NAY unanimously, and I support them, too.

Life's complicated, it seems.

[magical thyme]

251. well here's a part to take a look at right now...

The (ISDS) chapter in the draft of the trade deal, dated Jan. 20, 2015, and obtained by The New York Times in collaboration with the group WikiLeaks, is certain to kindle opposition from both the political left and the right. The sensitivity of the issue is reflected in the fact that the cover mandates that the chapter not be declassified until four years after the Trans-Pacific Partnership comes into force or trade negotiations end, should the agreement fail.

oh, whoops. well you can take a look in 2019 and let us know what you think.

“This is really troubling,” said Senator Charles E. Schumer of New York, the Senate’s No. 3 Democrat. “It seems to indicate that savvy, deep-pocketed foreign conglomerates could challenge a broad range of laws we pass at every level of government, such as made-in-America laws or anti-tobacco laws. I think people on both sides of the aisle will have trouble with this.”

“U.S.T.R. will say the U.S. has never lost a case, but you’re going to see a lot more challenges in the future,” said Senator Sherrod Brown, Democrat of Ohio. “There’s a huge pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for these companies.”

Under the terms of the Pacific trade chapter, foreign investors could demand cash compensation if member nations “expropriate or nationalize a covered investment either directly or indirectly.” Opponents fear “indirect expropriation” will be interpreted broadly, especially by deep-pocketed multinational companies opposing regulatory or legal changes that diminish the value of their investments.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/business/trans-pacific-partnership-seen-as-door-for-foreign-suits-against-us.html?_r=0

Well I guess instead you can take a look at TISA. It's outline has been in place for a year.

On Wednesday, WikiLeaks brought this agreement into the spotlight by releasing 17 key TiSA-related documents, including 11 full chapters under negotiation. Though the outline for this agreement has been in place for nearly a year, these documents were supposed to remain classified for five years after being signed, an example of the secrecy surrounding the agreement, which outstrips even the TPP.

oops. never mind. we'll wait for 2020 for your opinion.

The deal would liberalize global trade of services, an expansive definition that encompasses air and maritime transport, package delivery, e-commerce, telecommunications, accountancy, engineering, consulting, health care, private education, financial services and more, covering close to 80 percent of the U.S. economy. Though member parties insist that the agreement would simply stop discrimination against foreign service providers, the text shows that TiSA would restrict how governments can manage their public laws through an effective regulatory cap. It could also dismantle and privatize state-owned enterprises, and turn those services over to the private sector. You begin to sound like the guy hanging out in front of the local food co-op passing around leaflets about One World Government when you talk about TiSA, but it really would clear the way for further corporate domination over sovereign countries and their citizens.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121967/whats-really-going-trade-services-agreement

[MineralMan]

255. I've already looked at everything that is available, thanks.

I'll be looking at the rest, to the best of my ability, as well. I might read analysis of some of it by objective analysts, though. It's going to be a lot of stuff to read.

[rhett o rick]

449. My two Senators and my rep are all Democrats and they gave me bullshit rhetoric.

They didn't have the decency to answer any of my questions. Essentially they said that trade is good, period. I asked about the other 80% of the TPP and they ignored me. The billionaires own us. Some say we should just give up and vote HRC. I say we've reached the point of no return. Lay down and be peons or fight.

[ProfessorGAC]

7. Oh, Brother!

At least the venom was left in the snake's tooth this time.

[kentuck]

195. Almost reptilian...

[Fred Sanders]

10. The Purity Police are at it again....."we make the laws AND we enforce them" is the motto, I believe

And "anger is not a gift", serenity is a gift, like what OUR twice-elected President has.

And used car salesman....are demonized also...a twofer!

[hifiguy]

261. It is a bit easier to be serene.

When he can see an unbroken horizon of money ahead of him in his post-presidential years. The TPP passing insured that a Clinton-style fortune is in his future.

[Fred Sanders]

472. You go with that...I love a calm man, angry men are a dime a dozen. Calmness has driven the GOP mad.

[NuclearDem]

11. No, but I'm starting to think your "I was really upset" excuse is total bullshit.

[WilliamPitt]

14. You're starting to think.

That's a beginning.

[NuclearDem]

23. Preferably not about agony and torture fantasies.

Worth checking out.

[MineralMan]

207. Oops. Pitt posted an ugly image

and got locked out of his own thread.

[BeanMusical]

229. You seem happy.

[MineralMan]

230. I'm neither happy nor unhappy.

I dislike threads like this one, though. I'm not big on that kind of attack on sitting Democratic Presidents.

I'm also not big on posting ugly images of people as a means of attacking other posters. Apparently, neither was a jury.

My comment was just my comment.

[BeanMusical]

235. No, you dislike that poster and it's extremely obvious.

[MineralMan]

239. I dislike name-calling posts about President Obama.

That is true. When that poster posts such OPs, then I'm not pleased by that. If that's obvious, then my point was made.

I have objected to other similar posts as well.

It is my privilege to state my opinion here, as it is yours.

[BeanMusical]

253. No, it's obviously personal and was happening before the car salesman post last year.

And is also happening when this poster is not posting "such OPs" which is the majority of the time. Anger is bad for you. You should try Yoga or Tai chi.

[Autumn]

340. Lot of people have careers selling used cars. Ever bought a car from a used car salesman?

There are a lot of similarities to politicians.

[Mnpaul]

379. I agree

I think it may be easier to find a honest used car salesman these days.

[NuclearDem]

260. To be fair, I think that was a bad hide.

The image he posted is a fairly well-known meme used to say something like "huh?"

[MineralMan]

263. Actually, it's a very offensive photo, IMO.

It depicts a real person in a very objectionable way. That person is real. The photo and how it's used is offensive. She's probably someone's mother and grandmother. Ugly shit to post photos of her in that way. Offensive as can be.

I would vote to hide that every time.

[BeanMusical]

342. It's Photoshopped, and it's not even well made.

Gee.

[Adsos Letter]

385. I agree with you...

...for what it's worth.

[Marr]

275. That was a bullshit hide. /nt

[MineralMan]

288. That was a bullshit post.

That is a real person, who does not deserve such mockery. I'm sure she has seen it, too. Over the top, and then some. Mockery is bullying, and that woman does not deserve to be mocked.

[Marr]

299. Oh, brother.

Spare me the bs. You don't like the poster, that's all.

[840high]

428. Your dislike of the poster is showing.

[pintobean]

297. He should have gotten two.

[Cha]

484. Such a terrible thing to do.. what was he thinking?!!!

[LanternWaste]

25. That shouldn't be funny... but it is.

That shouldn't be funny... but it is.

[Adrahil]

81. Because anyone who dares to disagree with you...

... is obviously not thinking, right?

Condescend much?

[pintobean]

149. Poor Pitt

got locked out of his own flame-bait thread.

[uponit7771]

393. Ad hom, typical response of someone with a weak position or someone who full of shit

[randys1]

13. Call the president this is.....i wont say what it is, but it is

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. The funniest part of this post

is WilliamPitt saying "I hate to say I told you so."

[Fred Sanders]

22. "Next up, Keystone, and his legacy will be secured" is right up there on the hilarity scale....maybe

he forgot the sarcasm Emoticon??

[truebrit71]

109. Let's see how fucking funny it is when that passes shall we?

[Hekate]

258. A few more EIRs should get us all the way to 2017 and it still won't be passed

[Hekate]

142. Well yeah, there is that

For sure

[Broward]

17. Obama the Republican strikes again.

[Adrahil]

151. Yeah, Republicans fuckin' LOVE this guy....

You have GOT to be kidding.

[Broward]

234. Best Republican President ever.

[Nye Bevan]

20. Thank you for not saying "piece of shit" this time (nt)

[NCTraveler]

21. Don't roll over. Keep calling.

I mean calling the people that actually matter. Not calling the first black president a used car salesman. Although one is easier when conscious isn't involved. We currently have someone in the Senate working to become President of the US. Sanders want to show leadership and leadership is at his door asking for a friend. Sanders, through great leadership, will put this baby to bed.

[dreamnightwind]

311. I called my DINO Senator this morning

before the vote, Feinstein's staffer said she is pro-trade and will vote for cloture re TPA (I'm assuming she did so). I asked if most of the calls she is receiving on the issue are pro or con, he said he didn't have that info. My feeling is the calls are almost all con, and she does the opposite, because she only pretends to represent her constituents (mostly she doesn't even bother to pretend) while actually representing her corporate campaign donors.

Since the TPA passed the cloture vote (3 votes to spare IIRC) and I assume TPA also passed, I don't see how Sanders can stop this. Any ideas?

[JaneyVee]

27. Didn't that used car salesman save DUers lives?

[WilliamPitt]

29. Before selling them to the Pacific Rim

[JaneyVee]

33. Is that where NYC SKP went?

[merrily]

97. We'll never know.

[Fred Sanders]

106. Could be. The Pacific Rim is apparently teeming with unwashed hordes yearning to steal anything American.

[Ed Suspicious]

160. Does your president work for you or for the countries of the Pacific rim? Last I checked they

didn't vote for him.

[randys1]

155. So yes...thanks

[Doctor_J]

39. Actually, no. The people like me whose annuals went up by $8000/year did that

The Most Corporatist President In History just signed away the nation's healthcare to profiteers and death merchants, after lying during his campaign about that.

I think Obama is pulling for Hillary so that his corporate record will look populist in comparison.

[JaneyVee]

41. Someone should inform NYC SKP then, because...

He said Obamacare not only saved his life, but the million in medical bills saved his finances as well.

[Hekate]

154. We've had several posts like that here; thanks for bringing up NYC_SKP's experience. nt

[Doctor_J]

245. I know. He never thanked me. And if Candidate Public Option had actually insisted on

a public option like he promised, NYC_SKP would still be alive AND I wouldn't be paying a fifth of my take home pay for healthcare. Oh, and let's not forget that Obamacare has killed single payer healthcare in the US, forever. We will never get big insurance out of the system. Thanks Obama!

[JaneyVee]

268. It expanded single payer.

[passiveporcupine]

381. well actually

it expanded Medicaid (single payer, if you will), but it also expanded and was a big boon to for-profit insurance. I personally believe it was the only kind of health reform we could get passed at the time (because too much money (lobbying) and too many jobs were tied up in for-profit insurance at a time when unemployment was high), and I'm not saying it should not have been passed. But it is just a stepping stone to real single payer. We have a long way to go.

[Alittleliberal]

252. Ya know the fact

that it helped a lot people and that it was also a corporate giveaway, where the main goal was not to help people but to make more money, are not mutually exclusive ideas.

[lark]

110. Truly

I think it's totally the reverse. He thinks she'll continue his corporatist tradition and won't try to mess up his payday. I think she'd totally out populist him by a mile and Bernie would by 10 miles.

[Orsino]

63. And private insurers. n/t

[treestar]

248. I would not have to say

It saved my life. But my ability to have medical care, especially the preventive kind was quite improved. The claims people make are astounding. I think some simply blame all issues on the ACA when the ACA had nothing to do with it

[boston bean]

31. flame bait... attention seeking post..

Why would you post this tripe again?

Not even a week after the church shooting... a little respect might get you a long way.

This post you have made here though is just a stick in the eye to black persons and others who took great offense to your posting this the last time.

WHY????????

[WilliamPitt]

34. After the church shooting?

Really?

and as to "WHY?????????"

... because you're about to get screwed, and you don't seem to realize it.

" And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

-- Matthew 7:3

[boston bean]

45. oh you know very well what that comment intimated to people last time

and you were told then as well.

Yet you double down. You've got a Giant California redwood in thine eye... which is making you blind to how insensitive/insulting and mean your post is.

Your OP sucks, it's nothing but attention seeking flamebait. And on top of that makes this place you claim to love suck.

[frylock]

111. "Not even a week after the church shooting..."

whuuuuut?

[tkmorris]

123. Really?

[Andy823]

167. +1,000,000 nt

[rhett o rick]

451. You should read the story about the boy who cried wolf once too often. nm

[WilliamPitt]

36. Heh

[Autumn]

37. No yelling from me Will. It's not the first time

you were right. Right now I'm not fining much comfort in any of this, just dread and fear for my grandchildren and children.

So here, And tell your Mama I said she done good. Damn good.

.

[merrily]

40. Bill Moyers, whom I respect very much, has done about an article a month, first

questioning, then opposing the TPP. Here's one from May. http://billmoyers.com/2015/05/27/stop-calling-tpp-trade-agreement-isnt/

Here's the most recent: http://billmoyers.com/2015/06/22/congresss-cat-burglars-are-pulling-a-fast-one/

[democrank]

42. Know what`s crazy?

Republicans really support the TPP. Since when should Democrats be scolded because they don`t support Boehner, Mitch and their following? I`m pretty certain what most Democrats here at DU would be saying if it was George W. Bush trying to get the TPP passed.... and what we would be saying about the president trying to push it.

I`m not into the used car salesman talk, but I certainly believe a hell of a lot of support and good will were squandered after President Obama was elected. Why he turned to his "friends across the aisle" instead of the supporters whose votes gave him the presidency, I`ll never know. Perhaps one answer lies with Inauguration Day, January 20th 2009, when Obama chose Pastor Rick Warren to give the Invocation Prayer. Pastor Rick Warren, of all people. Think about that.

[Freddie Stubbs]

52. Democrats also support TPP. It's the Democratic Party Platform

[merrily]

102. That was cute, wasn't it? No one knew what the hell it was, yet it was part of the platform.

Now, we can all pretend that I voted for the TPP because I did not vote Republican. Please.

[Freddie Stubbs]

138. Do you really believe that the AFL-CIO was ignorant of what the TPP was?

[merrily]

144. ? My post was about my vote. But yes, I believe that was a possiblity, given what members of

Congress have had to do to read it, more than two years after it became part of the Democratic platform.

Since neither of us has proof either way, though, I don't see the point of speculating. I sure know what I knew in 2012, though, and what my vote meant re: the TPP; and that is all I posted about.

[Freddie Stubbs]

148. If the top brass at the AFL-CIO didn't know what the language in trade plank of the

Democratic Platform was, they were guilty of gross negligence.

[merrily]

153. The language in the plank did not detail what the TPP said and, again, what was the union to do?

Back Romney instead of Obama? As I said, though, all I know for certain is what I knew about the TPP in 2012 and what my vote meant. And that was all I posted about. I am in no position to speak about or for the AFL-CIO and I don't know that any DUer is.

[Ed Suspicious]

168. At least now they can back Bernie.

[merrily]

185. Let's see if they do. Some unions have been backing some Republicans.

Not for President, but they've backed some. Or, they back establishment Dems. Let's see what they do now.

[G_j]

47. up front?

you're joking, right?

[randome]

51. So when was he against the TPP? That's my point.

He's been pushing this from the start. Just because you personally aren't privy to the negotiations does not make it a 'used car salesman' theme any more than you not being privy to the Iran nuclear negotiations does.

We can debate points anytime. But there is no 'point' to hurling poorly written insults at the President. There is no information content in the OP, just an advertisement of personal invective.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

[G_j]

56. as up front as the used car salesman who tells you

he is not allowed to give you a CARFAX or other vehicle history.

[Cha]

408. Thank you, randome.. that was such a bad hide.. you only told the truth and they can't handle it.

[Renew Deal]

54. He knows he was wrong about what he posted last time

But he wants to find a way to justify. It's like when a family member comes to a holiday dinner trying to fight old fights. It's a little embarrassing.

[randome]

65. I know, that was about the extent of any 'yelling' I'm going to do.

Just as in those embarrassing family moments, it's best to just nod and walk away, I guess. Pass the wine, please.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

[Cha]

410. Precisely.

[GusBob]

53. I dont think there is a hyphen in the phrase

"Used car salesman"

[n2doc]

58. Even a salesman has to show you the goods

We aren't even allowed to see that.

Just another scam to scam money from the 99% and give it to lazy, evil global corporations. I'm sure the President and his family will be well taken care of, just like the Clintons were. The rest of us can 'please proceed' to oblivion.

[randome]

68. It's still a stupid analogy. The TPP is more akin to a car being built in the factory.

You get to see the finished product and decide if you want to buy it or not. You do not get to stand on the factory floor and start fiddling with it.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

[n2doc]

72. You get to see under the hood years after you buy it

And when you buy it, you have to agree to all sorts of things completely unrelated to the car itself.

The agreement is to be kept secret until years after passage. You will not be allowed to see it before the final up down vote. And I guarantee you that 90% of congress won't even read the summary before voting. They didn't this time around.

In any case, it will be amusing if a repub gets into office in 2016 to see all of you supporters turn around and wail in anguish about how bad this exact same agreement is. You had better hope HRC wins. Not that it will change the outcome of this particular piece of garbage.

[randome]

76. That is bullshit. The negotiating steps are secret, not the treaty itself.

Jesus, God, how the hell can anyone vote on something if they can't see it? You really believe that Congress is going to be handed a blank piece of paper (or a paragraph or two of summary) and told to vote 'Yay' or 'Nay'?

If you do, then I'm the one who has a used car to sell you.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

[n2doc]

94. you might try to educate yourself

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/06/13/cant-read-tpp-cant-find-congress/

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1110/S00262/tpp-papers-remain-secret-for-four-years-after-deal.htm

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/02/australian-mps-allowed-to-see-top-secret-trade-deal-text-on-condition-of-confidentiality

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/business/trans-pacific-partnership-seen-as-door-for-foreign-suits-against-us.html?_r=0

Most didn't read the ACA when it was voted on. Are you really that naive to believe that most congresspeople read the multi-thousand page giant bills they vote on? They mostly go around begging for money.

[randome]

116. So we should never give Congress anything more complicated than a paragraph or two?

Of course I know most of them don't read everything they're given. What the hell's the alternative? Run around making pointless insults? That's gotta be a laugh for some here!

Once again, the contents of the treaty will not remain secret for 4 years! I don't care what 'Scoop Politics' says. How the hell can a treaty be enforced if no one sees it?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[Fumesucker]

152. Wouldn't secret treaty enforcement be part of the secret court function?

The US does have secret courts, they could enforce secret treaties.

That seems logical.

[Cleita]

119. Yes. they have to lift the hood and show us what's under it.

Furthermore, we are allowed to take it for a drive before we sign anything. Hopefully, we will know enough about cars before we buy one. It's no different here. Instead though, they are going to shove the car and the contract sight unseen to us. Then they will tell us what we owe, what our payments will be and then hand us the keys and tell us to drive it and, oh, good luck.

[KoKo]

396. That Documentary "Lifting the Veil" Early On "Clued Me In"...what has followed hasn't been a comfort

With today's Senate Vote on TPA....I see it all went back to others that knew and we were warned way back before and after he was inaugurated what might be coming:

LIFTING THE VEIL:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12778740

[Cleita]

397. Thanks KoKo for the reminder. eom

[marym625]

59. I believed you

I just was hoping you would be wrong.

Sad day. A global corporatocracy. This will be all kinds of fun

[Dr Hobbitstein]

60. No, but I think you are...

Where's that Rove indictment? Any day now? Super cereal?
How about that TurboTax hack?

[randome]

73. The list is getting long, isn't it? Some people don't learn from bad experiences.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

[Dr Hobbitstein]

77. When you're wrong and called out,

double down, feign ignorance, and above all, NEVER admit to being wrong. I think he may have gone to the FOX News School of Journalism (that is, if he EVER went to journalism school at all).

[Andy823]

124. You beat me to it

I couldn't agree with you more. There are a couple of those "used car salesman" here on DU, and sadly they have found a lot of "suckers" to buy their sales pitch.

[JTFrog]

165. And the more recent

photo of a "White guy about to stab a Black guy in the chest with an American Flag." And the missing other version of the photo with the point at the top buried in his belly.



I can't believe folks still take him seriously.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

171. I don't either...

As many times as his "exclusives" have been wrong, as his opinions have been wrong (the origin of POSUCS was anger about something with the ACA that had NOTHING to do with the ACA, and when he was TOLD, he doubled, then tripled down on his post), as he has just been wrong in general, he seems to have a loyal fan club...

Back in the day, we called this yellow journalism and tabloid sensationalism.

[DanTex]

61. Of course not. He's been overall a good president.

Now we get to see what is actually in TPP.

[Cha]

411. Obama has been a great Pres and is loved by many.. I couldn't care less about the "disappointed" on

DU.

[City Lights]

64. Obama has been a huge disappointment.

I partially blame myself...should have known better than to get sucked in by impressive speeches. I once had hope...now, notsomuch.

[redstateblues]

82. For sure, we'd have been so much better off with McCain/Palin

I think overall Obama has done a good job-especially considering the Democratic base did not turn out in the mid terms-effectively handing over control of Congress to the Republicans

[Mnpaul]

383. Oh boy, better than McCain and Palin

what's not to love? I can pick random people off the street and come up with "better than McCain/Palin".

If Obama was doing a good job, people would show up. More voter blaming.

[snappyturtle]

401. +1 nt

[Oneironaut]

67. You mean like every politician?

Trusting someone in power is foolish. Even the supposed golden child Bernie Sanders would support the same deals. Why? Because the same influences will be there.

I know a lot of people don't want to hear about the realities of the political world, but they exist nonetheless. No, I don't think Obama has our best interests at heart all of the time - he realistically can't. His power is limited - especially as government power diminishes and corporate power grows.

If Obama could wave a magic wand and make everyones' lives better, I'm sure he would. Real life is more complex.

[Maedhros]

328. Um...Bernie has done nothing by OPPOSE the TPP.

Sorry, but I've heard the Sensible Woodchuck Lecture on Political Realities too many times to count. Doesn't matter how many times it gets trotted out, it's still bullshit.

/bye.

[uponit7771]

394. But holds some 2A water!? Yeah, that'll play well in South Side KC

[FlyByNight]

70. Change on the outside...

Continuity on the inside (as I've heard Cenk Uygur say).

The donor and congressional classes won't feel anything, so what the fuck do they care.

[cherokeeprogressive]

74. Personally I think he makes sandwiches at Subway. Shit sandwiches. n/t

[geek tragedy]

128. Of course you do. Anything to avoid acknowledging his legitimacy

as President.

He's not President in your eyes, he's some guy behind a sandwich counter.

[cherokeeprogressive]

156. What a STUPID notion. He won two uncontested elections.

He is NOTHING LESS than a legitimate President. First and foremost though; he's a politician. As such, I have ZERO emotional investment in him whatsoever. I can't imagine having a sad over what someone has to say about him. Life is so much less stressful that way.

[geek tragedy]

162. You do have an emotional investment in him, it's just a negative one.

One does not belittle the President as a "shit-sandwich-maker behind the counter at Subway" without having some negative, personal animus towards the President.

Certainly the "POSUCS" crowd have significant investments in hating the President.

[JustAnotherGen]

174. Sometimes I wonder who they hate more?

Bush II or Obama? Sometimes I seriously think they hate Obama more - but they won't admit it.

[geek tragedy]

175. Hating Bush didn't allow them to feel like Extra Special Premium Super Progressives. nt

[JustAnotherGen]

177. Yeah - there's that . . . n/t

[Hekate]

179. Spot on

[JustAnotherGen]

217. geek tragedy is killing it n/t

[C Moon]

84. I still can't believe they were voting for something they couldn't even study in full.

Would they decide on personal financial deals in that manner?

[randome]

88. They're not voting on anything until the treaty is put in front of them.

They voted for 'Fast Track' authority, not the TPP itself.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

[C Moon]

95. Okay. Thanks. Now I understand.

[randome]

105. And then they have, what, 90 days to vote on it?

That's plenty of time for representatives to start voicing their concerns and plenty of time for us to get a better handle on the ramifications. The contents aren't going to be secret for much longer.

If there's one detail that's a show-stopper, they should vote 'No'.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[TheKentuckian]

391. They who? The TeaPubliKlans? Oh ye of too much faith.

[lark]

86. Grrrrrrrrr

The crying and the heartbreaking devastation will be coming soon. Corporatist and their political allies win, workers and the environment get completely fucked over. Oligarchs are happy, I'm pissed.
Obama will rot in hell for this. I didn't expect anything different from Repugs, but he's supposed to be on our side. HA!

[lark]

89. No, not a used car salesman.

He's the Trojan Horse President.

[Phentex]

103. at least that's not offensive to people who sell used cars...

to make a living.

[mythology]

133. Perhaps if he stopped insulting people

Pitt mistakes his emotions for facts and doesn't deal well with people disagreeing with him. That's when he resorts to insults.

[randome]

140. The George Carlin/George Clooney/Alec Baldwin/Chris Brown School Of Journalism.

It's so hard to write legibly, just try to shock people!

What works well in comedy does not work well in written communications.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[JTFrog]

271. An embarrassing number of people rec'd his first pos thread too.

DU is not short on folks who will jump on any Obama hating bandwagon.

[Rex]

283. It is simply delish the irony of that one and their insults to the OP.

Seems like all 5 of Pitt's Fanboys showed up!

[Bobbie Jo]

321. Tacky

to hurl crap at someone who you know can't respond.

Safer that way, I guess.

No surprises here either.

[lancer78]

96. Too many people

were doing this in 2008.

[hunter]

101. The U.S.A. is an old clunker of a used car, so why the hell not?

[jwirr]

108. Yes, and the only protection the workers will get is TAA a program that has not been all that

successful.

[truebrit71]

114. Big time...

This is most definitely NOT the "change" I had "hoped" for....

I'm just kicking myself in the ass for believing his fancy speeches...Candidate Obama was pretty fucking great, Obama the President is an entirely different kettle of fish...

Still, fool me once and all that...

[JEB]

120. It's a lemon, this time, for sure. eom

[Hekate]

139. Nope

[sharp_stick]

141. Wow, he's no longer a piece of shit

Well Done!

The image you chose is pretty telling.

[geek tragedy]

176. That statement was never retracted nt

[sharp_stick]

191. Oh I know

I can't picture anything ever being retracted by some.

[geek tragedy]

196. well, if it accurately reflects their feelings, why retract it?

It's kind of that way with Ted Nugent--why should he retract statements like "Obama, he's a piece of shit"? He clearly means it and it 's a very accurate description of his feelings.

[madamesilverspurs]

145. No.

[YoungDemCA]

150. This thread is fucking ridiculous

nt

[Hekate]

181. The sheer entertainment value lies in the number of people who are flat-out disagreeing with Will...

I guess the benefit to him is that it feeds the anger that he thinks is his gift.

[JustAnotherGen]

161. Nope - I'm not a spoiled brat who didn't get her pony - win some lose some n/t

[randys1]

170. Spoiled brat is being too kind, given Obama's TWO HUNDRED AND NINETY ONE ACCOMPLISHMENTS

attitudes like this are WAY more than about being spoiled.

[JustAnotherGen]

173. Now I'm not saying anyone else is being a spoiled brat

I'm saying - I'm not. There are things I would have liked to have seen this administration - but I didn't get them. I'm not going to throw myself on the ground and throw a temper tantrum because I didn't get a Paycheck Fairness Act. I got Loretta Lynch - and that makes me happy!

[truebrit71]

210. Shame about the fourth amendment though, eh?

Still, we can't have everything we want, right?

[G_j]

200. wouldn't it be just too sad if

that pony was your job?

[JustAnotherGen]

215. You win some, you lose some n/t

[Duppers]

310. And our food sources

This was also a win for Monsanto.




This thread increases my ignore list.

[Maedhros]

331. "Spoiled brat?" "Pony?"

That's exceptionally stupid, and callous.

[JustAnotherGen]

346. Not that stupid

You "responded" to it didn't you? What's that thing Gump says?

[Maedhros]

350. All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. [n/t]

[JustAnotherGen]

356. In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.

I'm not going to the back of the bus - or - cheerleading for the boys team.

Suck it up buttercup!

[Maedhros]

357. You're just not worth the effort.

/ignore.

[JustAnotherGen]

366. Thank heavens

[truedelphi]

454. I find you worth the effort.

Solidarity.

[Action_Patrol]

163. What a pile of garbage.

[Omaha Steve]

164. K & R

[zappaman]

172. No, I still do not.

[Enthusiast]

180. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch!

[kentuck]

182. Turn out the lights...

The party's over...

[DrBulldog]

184. Several weeks ago, I called Obama a "Hawaian car salesman" and then was briefly banned by DU.

Well, I told you so.

[TeeYiYi]

219. Who banned you?...

...the spelling police?

But seriously, calling a sitting Democratic president a "car salesman," used or not, on a Democratic message board, is pretty disrespectful.

TYY...who used to live in Hawaii.

[Maedhros]

334. Even when what he's doing is starkly un-Democratic? [n/t]

[Hekate]

377. At least spell it right when you are repeating what got you in trouble

[Starry Messenger]

186. Everything is peachy until it's your ox that gets gored, isn't it?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4672637#4672677

[MannyGoldstein]

187. Mr. Pitt: It's obvious that your calling our President names

is infinitely worse than his working to enable bankers to afford a fourth home, at the small cost of more children sleeping, cold and hungry, in cars.

You are a very, very bad person. This President is the greatest President in my lifetime, and possibly in the history of the multiverse.

Regards,

TWM

[geek tragedy]

198. Well, spreading falsehoods like

his working to enable bankers to afford a fourth home, at the small cost of more children sleeping, cold and hungry, in cars.

doesn't help Team Obamahate's case.


I've pointed out to you before why your claim that Obama has increased homelessness is an outright falsehood. Now you're piling on the "cold and hungry in cars" line to make the factual misrepresentations more inflammatory.

(number of unsheltered students in schools is lower than it was in 2006-2008). Compare page 2:

http://center.serve.org/nche/downloads/data-comp-1011-1213.pdf

with page 14:

http://center.serve.org/nche/downloads/data_comp_06-08.doc

Or check out the nice pretty picture which shows you're pretty much lying:



http://journalistsresource.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/AHAR-2013-Part1.pdf



Because he's the Great Satan in your universe.

Well, co-Great Satan, along with Hillary.

Never mind the Republicans whom you never blame for anything. Such as your refusal to blame Republicans for any negative housing developments that occurred during the recession that they caused.

So, your pining for the days of Bush/Cheney economic policies and their treatment of the homeless are misplaced.

[MannyGoldstein]

285. "Record number of homeless children enrolled in US public schools (+video)"

"Nearly 1.3 million homeless children and teens were enrolled in schools in the 2012-13 school year, an 8 percent increase from the previous school year – and an 85 percent increase since the beginning of the recession."
http://m.csmonitor.com/USA/Education/2014/0923/Record-number-of-homeless-children-enrolled-in-US-public-schools-video

[geek tragedy]

296. "homeless" in that study means moving in with relatives and staying in hotels

as well as living in shelters and unsheltered.

Maybe your life of privilege has insulated you from this reality, but most homeless people who don't live in cars or on park benches.


Moreover, the increase in that metric was 85% since 2006-2007, when the recession began. (Reminder: Bush was President from 2001 until January 20, 2009)

See Table 2 and compare the figures (679.724)
http://center.serve.org/nche/downloads/data_comp_06-08.doc

and compare with Table 2 from the 2012-2013 (1,258,182)

http://center.serve.org/nche/downloads/data-comp-1011-1213.pdf

1,258,182-679,724=578,458

578,458/679,724=.85, or . . . 85%

Also note that the number of "unsheltered" students (i.e. living in cars and on the streets--the ones you're pretending to care so much about) actually decreased by 20% over that same period (from 54,422 in 2006-2007 to 41,635 in 2012-2013).

But, of course, you don't want to get into that, because homeless children aren't your real agenda item. You don't write about them except as a means to launch dishonest attacks on Obama in order to blame him for conditions created by Bush. And when he does make things better, you falsely accuse him of making them worse.

And this doesn't even get into your complete failure to demonstrate that any single child anywhere was homeless (under any definition) due to Obama policies. You just lazily cite one figure from a report that doesn't address Obama policies at all, and also falsely and dishonestly pass off increases that happened under Bush (2006-2009) as being Obama's fault and due to Obama policies.

You CHOOSE to blame Obama for the fallout from BUSH's failed economic policies and his destruction of the housing sector in the US. What causes you to do that?

Remember the BUSH recession? Or were you asleep before 2009?





So, please stop lying. I would ask you to stop hating, but let's be real.

[MannyGoldstein]

319. When the insults start...

the conversation ends.

I'm happy to discuss virtually anything, but not while having poo flung at me.

Have a good evening.

[geek tragedy]

332. In other words, you have no factual rebuttal.

Which we knew, but thanks for confirming.

[MannyGoldstein]

352. Insults are the mark of a low person

and debating a low person is never satisfying.

[geek tragedy]

359. Funny. Points for unintentional irony.

But I think you meant to write:

losing a debate with a low person badly--by having my high person nonsensical arguments and talking points shredded by math and logic, is deeply humiliating as well as unsatisfying.

On behalf of all of us low-born people who commit the sin of not respecting high-society sophisticates such as yourself, here's a video:

[kath]

220. Yay, Third Way Manny! It's good that you've got your mind right. He IS the best prez in the history

Of the multiverse.
WOOT!

[JTFrog]

326. I bet our President never threatened to beat a homeless woman. n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

345. I'll bet Will Pitt never tried to extend the Iraq War

Or tried to cut Social Security benefits.

Or helped Wall Street at every turn.

Or...

[JTFrog]

355. What, no mention of death panels?

I'll take the integrity of Barack Obama over Will Pitt any day of the week of any year.

[MannyGoldstein]

358. Are you accusing me of posting BS?

Disgusting.

I post truth, you try to equate facts with lies.

Wake up.

[JTFrog]

360. You've made your own reputation here.

Right along with Mr. Pitt.

I'm wide awake and have been paying attention to the haters for years now.

[MannyGoldstein]

362. You tried to equate a lie with verified truths

purely to smear me.

That's a fact. A disgusting fact.

[JTFrog]

365. You don't need my help with that. n/t

[geek tragedy]

370. No, you lied when you said that Obama tried to "help Wall Street at every turn."

That is a lie unless you're willing to publicly call for a repeal of Dodd Frank .

And to publicly call for the abolition for the Consumer Financial Protection Board.

And condemn him for appointing Elizabeth Warren to set that agency up.

[geek tragedy]

364. You got busted posting lies in your initial post.

You know, the part where you blamed Obama for something that happened under Bush.

P.S. Where did you find that CSMonitor link you attempted to pass off as showing that Obama's policies forced kids to live in cars?

[MannyGoldstein]

368. You rebutted something I didn't state in my post.

Not only do you need to deal in personal insults, you lack a grasp of language and/or logic.

[geek tragedy]

374. You blatantly lied when you wrote this:

worse than his working to enable bankers to afford a fourth home, at the small cost of more children sleeping, cold and hungry, in cars.

That is a factually false, malicious lie. Demonstrably, unambiguously false.

There are not "more children sleeping, cold and hungry, in cars" under Obama. Not under Obama, let alone attributable to Obama policies. You attempted to back that vile smear up with the CS Monitor article, which I demonstrated does not back up your initial lie.

It's possible to oppose the TPP without lying your ass off about Obama and trying to portray him as an evil sociopath.

But, maybe you are so consumed with hate that you cannot tell the truth from your fantasy world where Obama is a combination of Satan and Ebeneezer Scrooge.

[Maedhros]

336. He's everything we want him to be!

Just close your eyes, tap your heels together three times, and repeat:

"There's no President like Obama!"
"There's no President like Obama!"
"There's no President like Obama!"

[ibegurpard]

445. How very sensible of you!

[Sheepshank]

194. Ancient Alien Theorist?

I'm not sure that is the correct comparison to use on yourself lol

[Angry Dragon]

202. It is such a great trade bill that they have to hide it so the

American people don't get excited


it is like a great surprise party

[truebrit71]

218. Yes! Yes! That's it!!! Along with all of his other seventy billion accomplishments!!!

Last edited Tue Jun 23, 2015, 07:32 PM - Edit history (1)

He's ALWAYS got our best interests at heart!!!

[Mnpaul]

384. All we need is to clap louder

make the pie higher(Oh wait, that was Bush)

[hifiguy]

205. We were had. Royally had.

Nothing central in foreign policy changed, the Security State tramples on, the MIC is bigger and more powerful than ever, the too-big-to-fail banks are bigger and more powerful than ever, there was no accountability served to those who cratered the economy, police violence is at an all time high, the for-profit prison industry is bigger than ever, and predatory, plutocratic capitalism has the country ever more tightly by the throat, more determined than ever to destroy the middle class and further marginalize the poor even it such a thing is possible.

WE WERE HAD.

[truebrit71]

222. Yup.

But none so blind etc, etc...

[geek tragedy]

339. "Nothing central in foreign policy has changed."

I guess if you ignore his failure to invade Iraq, normalizing relations with Cuba, the Iran nuclear agreement/negotiations, and the climate treaty with China.

As well as Obama signing nuclear arms control treaties with Russia instead of withdrawing from them.

But don't let facts get in the way of a good old-fashioned Naderite complaintfest.

[hifiguy]

347. I should have said "little" in foreign policy has changed.

I think the Iran agreement is a significant accomplishment. It will probably never be ratified, though. But the machinery of death rolls on in Afghanistan, the drone strikes continue at rates many multiples of anything Chimpy ever did and the War Machine is bigger than ever. And it is busily looking for its next playground. If a conventional candidate, indebted to the War Machine, is elected, more wars - plural - in the Middle East and Central Asia are guaran-damn-teed.

That area of policy has a dynamic that can only be changed at the margins by any conventional president, and Michael Glennon's "National Security and Double Government" proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt. The last president who tried to change it was Jack Kennedy. And the reward he got for his efforts is well known.

[geek tragedy]

351. Iran agreement doesn't need to be ratified.

Just needs 145 votes in the House or 34 votes in the Senate.

drone strikes continue at rates many multiples of anything Chimpy ever did

Commander Bunnypants used ground invasions instead of drones. Drones cost a lot fewer lives, and they're a lot more effective at disrupting AQ.

[panader0]

212. No.

Nor do I think anger is a gift. I think it's a sickness that people should try hard to eradicate from themselves.

[Hekate]

382. Thanks for that observation

[kentuck]

213. ..

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

224. I would far rather have him sell me a used car.

Is there still time to switch to that?

[kath]

225. K and R. And

will's hide is ridiculous. responding "WUT" to a totally nonsensical post gets a hide these days?!?
What. the. fuck.

[truebluegreen]

231. Amazing what loops and twirls some will do

to avoid criticizing our President, staunch defender of the status quo* that he is.

*"Corporations Rule!"

[Broward]

249. I suspect that 90% of them would've supported the Iraq War if it was Obama doing the bidding.

[kath]

267. Oh, absolutely.

Pathetic.

[truebluegreen]

323. I'm sure you are right.

It is extreme tribalism, "if our guys do it it must be OK!" I expect it from conservatives; it is painful to see it here.

[Maedhros]

338. They supported blasting Libya into the stone age, leaving a chaotic nightmare in the aftermath,

full of misery and violence. "We came, we saw, he died!" Yay us!

[TheKentuckian]

402. They still cheer away on that one and are Ready for More.

[Android3.14]

247. Not quite so fearful after this DU discussion

The opposition to the TPP, et al, appears to be more smoke and mirrors to distract us from the runaway wealth disparity that is crippling the thinking beings of this planet. I'm not saying our beloved candidates are part of a conspiracy. I'd bet money they believe what they say, but I'd also bet money they haven't examined how this will impact us outside of the echo chamber.

This discussion made me realize I was afraid based on ignorance.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6750894

Instead of overhauling the way we distribute wealth and benefits, we have different groups blaming each other thus insuring we run to the middle to accomplish nothing substantive (more third way), insuring the richest get richer, the middle class keep fighting each other and the poor countries stay mired in the swamp of slave wages and environmental destruction.

It seems to me that this whole mess was a distraction.

[abakan]

256. I bought the car twice.

Lately it will only go to the right. Disappointed, I have to buy a new car and I don't feel I can trust the sellers to tell me the truth about how it will run.

[BuelahWitch]

307. We didn't have a choice the second time

No one in the Democratic party would challenge him.

[colsohlibgal]

264. I Really Wonder

What would Obama have to do to lose the full on support of the obviously blind loyalists who defend everything about him?

I really don't know, they seem content to rationalize it all.

There is a reason republicans are big allies of Obama on this.

NAFTA, CAFTA, all disasters for working Americans. This is a trade deal on steroids.

Loyal to the end democrats stuck with Clinton on NAFTA etc. as well. It just appears some cross the line into hero worship and that's not good at all.

I believe people like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are looking out for everyday people in the USA. I don't think that about Obama anymore.

[BeanMusical]

265. Used-car salesman?

Nah, too clever for that. Lotsa bridges to sell though and he have a lot of customers.

[hifiguy]

276. Interesting to see that that so many criticizing you here, Will,

have sub-zero credibility and can't even follow a rational argument.

You are the best, brother.

[Rex]

284. Pitt has his Fanboys.

Seems a few posters on here have a fan club base.

[Rex]

289. Sub-cults Underground.

Be a real hitter, be an outlier!

[hifiguy]

294. Always have been an outlier.

I'm on the spectrum - dx'd Asperger's and more like Data than you could ever imagine. A logical, scientific rationalist to the end. My church is logic and reason and the scientific method is my sacrament.

If I had received the math gene rather than the "words" gene I'd have been an astronomer, cosmologist or physicist, and all of those subjects are deep passions of mine to this day. I didn't, so I wound up going to law school.

[hifiguy]

298. Yep. Same graduating class as Michelle Obama.

We were in the same first year section as 1Ls. Knew who she was but didn't know her personally.

[hifiguy]

301. One of my two brushes with future fame.

The other was playing bass guitar in a band with Dez Dickerson for a couple months back in the 1970s. Dez went on to be the lead guitarist in Prince's Revolution band, which I found strange because Dez was a hard-rockin' disciple of Deep Purple's Ritchie Blackmore and not much into funk or soul when I knew him. It is also a very widely circulated rumor in older Twin Cities music circles that Dez actually wrote most of Prince's early hits, and that he was very well paid to allow the tunes to come out with Prince's name as the writer. No idea whether it's "true" but the number of insiders who tell the story give it a pretty hefty dose of believability.

Last I heard of Dez he was retired from the music biz and owned an assload of apartment buildings and other real estate developments. He was a really cool dude back in the day.

[hifiguy]

287. Actually, I am probably one of Will's "fanboys."

Rather unashamedly so, in fact.

[Rex]

290. Hmm, I guess I should have said his anti-fanboys and fanboys

though in the end there is no difference because both groups 'like' to read his opinion pieces.

[geek tragedy]

305. Well, yeah, if one agrees with the hate, then the hate seems rational.

P.S. "Obama's a used car salesman" is not a rational argument. It's just standard fare Internet hate.

[passiveporcupine]

292. You are really going here again?

No, he is not a used car salesman. Never was and never will be.

I don't like the TPP, but I think a trade policy is necessary, and maybe this will have some goodo things in it, or I don't believe Obama would be pushing it. Will it have some bad things in it? I'm afraid so. But how much do we really know about it? How much of what we are hearing is propaganda?

I trust those senators and congressmen who are fighting it, but I suspect they also know a trade agreement is necessary...just not this one.

I hope it won't be as bad as Nafta, but Nafta did bring a lot of wealth to this country. Just not to the middle class and poor. Maybe fighting globalization is not the answer. Maybe something else is the answer, I just don't know what...maybe more wealth distribution here at home from all those corporations who are reaping the benefits of trade.

I want to see other countries become advanced with good living standards for all. I don't like seeing the way we exploit their workers (like slavery) to keep us strong...and we are not strong any more, because I believe a country is only as strong as it's middle class.

So, I don't know the answer, but stopping all trade agreements with other countries is probably not the answer. And I respect Obama. He is a good man. Not as progressive as I'd like but a good man with a good heart.

[DeeDeeNY]

302. No I do not think that

I can't discount every good and positive thing that he's accomplished because of the few times he has disappointed.

[Maedhros]

349. You've got that backward.

Obama has done very few positive things, compared to the crap he's heaped on us:

* Let torturers walk with no repercussions.
* Expanded drone warfare, with 'signature strikes' and double-taps
* Criminalized investigative journalism
* Excessive prosecution of whistleblowers using the Espionage Act
* Declared the power to commit political executions without due process
* Expanded military operations in Africa 217% since taking office
* Destroyed the country of Libya in defiance of Congress for no good reason
* Turned on his own Party to push through the TPP
* Continued Bush foreign policy doctrine in the Middle East
* Expanded unconstitutional NSA surveillance programs
* Grounded a foreign head-of-state's diplomatic plane

There are so many bad policies and positions that I can't even remember them all. And in return, we got what? A few scraps.

[PowerToThePeople]

304. A very bad one. n/t

[Egnever]

309. His turbo tax was probably hacked

It left him no choice...

[itsrobert]

312. I think you orignally referred to the POTUS as a PIECE OF SHIT used car salesman

Did you not? Why are you leaving that part out now?

For the record, I don't agree with your assessment. I think what you originally said was disgusting. Now you sanitize your remarks to make yourself look like the victim thinking people do not remember the "POS" part. Shame on you.

[Broward]

316. Shame on Obama for screwing over the American people.

[stonecutter357]

322. he doesn't care what con's call him

[Skittles]

329. YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND CHESS, WILLIAM

AND DON'T YOU KNOW HE GIVES PURTY SPEECHES?

[QC]

330. Will never really loved him1!!1!!

[Skittles]

333. I KNOW!

[JackBeck]

373. You can't deny that it's true.

[Electric Monk]

388. + yeah, that's the ticket, lol

[nationalize the fed]

335. Next thing you know, a Democrat will propose that every citizen alive

must purchase corporate for profit insurance for the rest of their lives without a public option. And wouldn't it be hilarious if lots of so called Democrats thought this would be a good thing.

[joshcryer]

341. He won't sign without TAA.

Which the AFL-CIO is assuring will have the best protections possible.

But to expect even a minute bit of substance from people who have threatened violence against a homeless person no less is asking a bit too much.

[DCBob]

348. He's not.

Anyone who thinks that is blind or foolish or both.

[hrmjustin]

354. You can always just complain about his policies without insulting him you know.

[CreekDog]

369. No, the president is not a used car salesman

I can disagree with Obama without calling him a used car salesman.

What you're saying feels good, but it isn't good. Really.

[chev52]

372. Nothing like a democrat

to step in and get the job done that republicans never could have with a republican in the white house. First, Clinton with Nafta, now Obama, with this TPP he and his republican compadres shoved through, against the mass opposition of the people and the unions who have supported him.

[msanthrope]

376. Wow, Will.....my thread about my sight got to you?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026856535

I have a question for you, Will.....are the facts that you stated in your original thread still the same? Is your wife still being denied her meds?

because if she is I hope you will accept the help of this losing sight lawyer who has benefited tremendously from Obamacare and knows the ins and outs of advocating for one's health......I will be happy to assist you and your wife in obtaining whatever medical care you still need.

[Hekate]

387. ****

[seveneyes]

380. Not even close ...

[Drunken Irishman]

386. Ah yes. More subtle racism from the left.

I've seen this dog whistle used before by the right. Just because you claim to be a progressive doesn't mean this shit isn't racist and bullshit.

[KoKo]

395. Nah....Will is just pointing out that Obama isn't what we thought we were voting for in his latest

actions since 2012 when we REVOTED for him thinking he'd get his Democratic "MoJo" going.

Most of us knew he had the Bush Legacy, Financial Crisis, dogging him when he was Inaugurated....but, we watched his Appointments to his Cabinet and those he Appointed to Solve the Financial Crisis.......and we started to get worried.

As his Administration has gone on through TWO TERMS....he NOW GIVES US the TPA/TPP and all the rest of the "T's" as His LEGACY?

We started to wake up from our Dreams and now the Nightmare Reality is what we are forced to cope with going into 2016.

Many of us don't want anything to do with "Promise and Cave"...Promise and Move Right....anymore.

[BeanMusical]

406. "Promise and Cave" That pretty much sums up his legacy.

Although I'm not sure that he caved very often. For that you must reluctantly concede to do something that you don't want to do to begin with.

[Drunken Irishman]

437. He's using GOP right-wing racist language...

Will might not be racist - but he's using racist terminology. Disgusting.

[ibegurpard]

443. Oh is used-car salesman a racist connotation?

First I've heard of it.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

412. You're going to need to...you know...explain what you're talking about.

Your charge of racism represents a quantum leap in logic (which is to say, it's illogical). Splain.

[TheKentuckian]

416. Cool story, brah. How is calling someone a used car salesman racist?

I've never heard that one in any sort of racist context. Obama being black doesn't mean if you call him out his name it is racist.

That is seemingly so subtle as to be vapor.

[Drunken Irishman]

435. LOL are you kidding me?

It's been a term the GOP has used to attack Obama with subtle jabs of racism since he took office.













No...nothing racist there at all.

[TheKentuckian]

444. Or it just might be an old and well worn thing people say about politicians

they think are crooks and it was applied to one you are a big fan of.


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=https://www.pinterest.com/AutoProLo/car-salesman-humor/&h=162&w=236&tbnid=Cq7qq3qYpoA9HM:&zoom=1&q=politicians+compared+to+used+car+salesman&docid=YINkRYAbpS8g8M&ei=UhuKVe_XEIbW-QGMuICIBQ&tbm=isch&ved=0CCUQMygHMAc

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-politics-religion/431686-random-political-image-thread-86.html&h=376&w=500&tbnid=oqFbxOzkMN4kXM:&zoom=1&q=politicians+compared+to+used+car+salesman&docid=g5NN6DF-BDL6NM&ei=UhuKVe_XEIbW-QGMuICIBQ&tbm=isch&ved=0CCYQMygIMAg

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://w

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=https://www.pinterest.com/junco1312/people-insane-~-dangerous-~-evil/&h=180&w=236&tbnid=kNTPzNaFBheOiM:&zoom=1&q=politicians+compared+to+used+car+salesman&docid=KEAt1629Kh6DNM&ei=vhyKVfn4GcSx-AHik7-oDg&tbm=isch&ved=0CBgQMygUMBQ4ZA

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://www.zazzle.com/salesman%2Bstickers&h=324&w=324&tbnid=zJbAfzEh2qLmaM:&zoom=1&q=politicians+compared+to+used+car+salesman&docid=6KTbHbRv-FZ-gM&ei=Rh2KVbTlN8Ps-QHa3IC4Dg&tbm=isch&ved=0CCcQMygjMCM4rAI

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://www.politifake.org/tags/sales&h=211&w=265&tbnid=fr1IpKha7LZz9M:&zoom=1&q=politicians+compared+to+used+car+salesman&docid=KZvCMUZEjjci2M&ei=UhuKVe_XEIbW-QGMuICIBQ&tbm=isch&ved=0CCsQMygNMA0

[Rex]

420. Your username makes that statement seem strange.

I see a lot of sulking.

[Scuba]

399. Rec for the subthread in which a TPP-backer gets his ass handed to him.

[Bobbie Jo]

409. And Bravo for the subthread in which

the Reaganite gets his ass handed to him.

[elehhhhna]

400. car salesmen are justifying to make a living

He has no such excuse.

His legacy is "suck it, voters".


Fuck that guy.

[Aerows]

403. Yeah, but where are you going to go?

Who are you going to vote for if you decide not to vote for Democrats?



I'm pissed off about this.

[orpupilofnature57]

407. His legacy, not what he said but what he sold, us .

[Cha]

418. "Obama's approval rating among liberal democrats rises to 86%"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6888903

It's doesn't matter that there on those on DU who don't appreciate this President.. the important thing is that the country does and that's going to really help us with getting our next Democratic President elected.

And, you haven't told us anything but the SOS.

[sheshe2]

482. The Gallup Poll!

Excellent!

Good news, no Great news.

[Cha]

483. Yeah, DU is a little microcosm of seething

cheap pot shots.

Thank Goodness for our next Democratic President and our Nation and the rest of the county isn't like all these ugly insults on this board, she.

[Spazito]

419. I still don't think so....

saying it twice doesn't make it any more true than the first time you called the President a "piece of shit used car salesman".

[Rex]

421. I expect a mea cupa thread in a few weeks.

Guessing what Obama is going to do at this point is like demanding a primary winner. The POTUS is pissing a few off by not being the lame duck they want him to be. He didnt get impeached, has no scandals after two terms.

He's helped a lot of people and decided not to start WW3. I have my own idea about the TTP and what he will do.

[Spazito]

423. We didn't get a genuine mea culpa thread after the first time, imo...

It was, at best, a non-apology apology, one of those that start like an apology but then go on to justify what they said.

I don't think even that will happen this time.

As to the Trans Pacific Partnership, the public will get to see what is actually in it prior to a vote in Congress, the same process used for many, many other trade agreements. I am neither for it or against it at this time.

[Rex]

425. This one

will be worth bookmarking after the POTUS is done with the treaty. Goodluck getting humility on an anonymous forum.

[LWolf]

422. I never thought differently.

I picked up on his willingness to throw us under the bus in the '08 primaries, before he was ever nominated.

Which made me one many DUers have loved to hate over the last 8 years.

[GoneFishin]

427. I see the same shills are here to explain why us taxpayers should be happy to give away our jobs

and give taxpayer funded freebies to the leach multinationals that are sucking the life out of our democracy.

Fuck the TPP. When the end result is that you get to rape my dog, eat my lunch, ship my job to Viet Nam, and sell my kids into virtual slavery I don't give a shit how elaborate and informed you pretend your explanation is. You are either an idiot or on the take.

And, oh yeah. Fuck the TPP.

[840high]

429. ....x10

[raouldukelives]

439. I'm starting to almost find it complimentary.

But in all honesty, this was to be expected.

Millions of people paid & labored for this to happen, no matter the braying sounds or mannerisms they might exhibit in public, the money they funnel into Wall St and the hands of lobbyists works restlessly for them, 24/7 365 days a year. And though they wont come out and say it, like dreaming of drones obliterating "enemies", they secretly desire the comfort of the corporate womb.

At any moment you can just picture them living vicariously through those investments. As that money passes through the fingers of the elite they shower with it. As a finely manicured fingernail petulantly flicks away morsels of the finest foods one could find on earth while another corporate loving politician is brought to power through the fine efforts of themselves and the Republican Governors Alliance.

We literally wouldn't be here without them and I think they deserve a hand. May they and all of their children live in sweet delight until the day they understand just what it has cost them.


Every night and every morn,
Some to misery are born,
Every morn and every night,
Some are born to sweet delight.
Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.

[ibegurpard]

442. He's been selling us a shitty bill of goods

from the beginning.
Selling healthcare reform to the insurance industry.
Selling public education to corporate education reformers.
And now selling our rights to regulate our own economy to a transnational trade council.

[LittleBlue]

448. The ones who don't see don't want to see

No point in talking to them.

[lovemydog]

452. No. Not in the least.

[akbacchus_BC]

456. I used to like your posts here and elsewhere!

But, man, you have lost a lot of credibility on here in my opinion.

President Obama was not perfect and no one is perfect but calling him a used car sales man is hard to swallow.

Do carry on, what will you call Mrs. Clinton? Am not holding my breath!

[davidpdx]

458. While I am disappointed in the TPA vote it is a done deal now

I spent time lobbying both my representative and senator to vote against it (both voted for it).

I am also disappointed by President Obama pushing fast-track and the TPP as I believe if it passes other countries are going to get sucked into it (mainly South Korea where I live). That doesn't mean I have abandon supporting President Obama.

The difference between you and me is that I won't stoop to the level you have both today and in the past by calling President Obama a piece of shit used car salesman (and by the way, even though you didn't use the POS part today in my opinion it is implied). This is actually the third time that you've used that derogatory language toward the president here is another thread where you did the same thing.

Here you did a mea culpa when talking about NY_SKP recently:

I posted a thread calling the president a POS used car salesman !!!here!!! because I lost my temper with the only insurance company the ACA allowed me to access in NH, and was stupid enough to take it out on my keyboard. I had my reasons, and it was because my wife with MS and my baby daughter were being put in peril by a gruesomely selfish and greedy insurance bureaucracy the ACA handed us to as our only choice in this state...but I'm not getting into it again, and if you want to, you'll be talking to yourself and not me.

You certainly didn't mean it because you say the same thing over and over again.

If the US Supreme Court rules against Obamacare are we going to get another "I told you so"? Clearly you have an itch about that as well. Come on Mr. Pitt, tell us. Are you going to get drunk and celebrate the downfall of Obamacare?

To the 174 196 people who have recorded the post, congratulations on endorsing the crap that Mr. Pitt's has said about President Obama. You own it.

[nationalize the fed]

462. This is mild compared to what some others say

And Pitt didn't mention the TTIP- Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership or the TISA - Trade in Services Agreement both of which are assured to pass, now that Democrat Obama has fought for the TPA.

Liberal Stephen Lendman has some words for Obama:

Obama is no man of the people. He never was throughout his political career. He serves powerful monied interests exclusively.

As an Illinois state senator, he represented Chicago real estate interests at the expense of Black communities they wanted gentrified. He disgraces the office he holds. He remains a front man for wealth, power and privilege.

Earlier, Partnership for Civil Justice Fund executive director Mara Verheyden-Hilliard called the "defining feature of (his presidency) the eagerness with which it embraced the stunning evisceration of civil rights and liberties that was a hallmark of the Bush administration, and then deepened those outrageous programs. He has successfully counted on the acquiescent silence of the liberals."

His agenda mocks democratic values, rule of law principles and social justice. It includes endless wars, corporate favoritism, anti-populism, harsh crackdowns on nonbelievers and replacing all sovereign independent governments with ones Washington controls...
http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/2015/06/obama-wants-regime-change-in-ecuador.html

Stephen Lendman now hosts the Progressive Radio News Hour on the Progressive Radio Network three times weekly. Distinguished guests are featured. Listen live or achived. Major world and national issues are discussed. Lendman is a 2008 Project Censored winner and 2011 Mexican Journalists Club international journalism award recipient.

[davidpdx]

463. It maybe true, but as far as we know Mr. Lendman is not on DU and Mr. Pitt is

My post addresses Mr. Pitt's repeated use of the phrase "used car salesman" and piece of shit used car salesman", not Mr. Lendman.

[raouldukelives]

470. I'd rather own it than a share of the corporate defeat of democracy.

But I've always found those who care so much about words, usually care that much less about actual actions.

Sometimes I think that says far more than, well, words ever could.

[sheshe2]

480. +1000~

[Cha]

481. Briliant post, davidpdx! Thank you so much!

[boston bean]

464. Would you consider deleting your OP? nt

[Blue_Tires]

466. No, I don't...

Any more questions, genius?

[mountain grammy]

468. No.

[Zorra]

478. If Bernie was POTUS, deadly global socio-economic viruses like the TPA would be eradicated.

[Owl]

479. K & R