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KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 05:25 PM Jun 2015

I am an adjunct professor who teaches five classes. I earn less than a pet-sitter

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/22/adjunct-professor-earn-less-than-pet-sitter

Like most university teachers today, I am a low-paid contract worker. Now and then, a friend will ask: “Have you tried dog-walking on the side?” I have. Pet care, I can reveal, takes massive attention, energy and driving time. I’m friends with a full-time, professionally employed pet-sitter who’s done it for years, never topping $26,000 annually and never receiving health or other benefits.

The reason I field such questions is that, as an adjunct professor, whether teaching undergraduate or law-school courses, I make much less than a pet-sitter earns. This year I’m teaching five classes (15 credit hours, roughly comparable to the teaching loads of some tenure-track law or business school instructors). At $3,000 per course, I’ll pull in $15,000 for the year. I work year-round, 20 to 30 hours weekly – teaching, developing courses and drafting syllabi, offering academic advice, recommendation letters and course extensions for students who need them. As I write, in late June, my students are wrapping up their final week of the first summer term, and the second summer term will begin next week.

I receive no benefits, no office, no phone or stipend for the basic communication demands of teaching. I keep constant tabs on the media I use in my classes; if I exhaust my own 10GB monthly data plan early, I lose vital time for online discussions with my students. This, although the university requires my students to engage in discussions about legal issues and ethics six days a week, and I must guide as well as grade these discussions.

Three of my Philadelphia-area friends are adjuncts with doctorate degrees. One keeps moving to other states for temporary teaching posts. The others teach at multiple sites to keep afloat financially – one at no less than seven colleges and universities.


And yet tuition keeps going through the roof.
123 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I am an adjunct professor who teaches five classes. I earn less than a pet-sitter (Original Post) KamaAina Jun 2015 OP
I have a full time job and worked as an adjunct on the side. Evergreen Emerald Jun 2015 #1
Saddest story I ever read Blus4u Jun 2015 #72
Similar To Me ProfessorGAC Jun 2015 #107
My university is getting rid of adjuncts yeoman6987 Jun 2015 #2
I am not the author. KamaAina Jun 2015 #3
.Oh wow. First of all congratulations on Yale yeoman6987 Jun 2015 #4
What job? KamaAina Jun 2015 #5
Oh....sorry. yeoman6987 Jun 2015 #6
Oh I see. I reread your previous post yeoman6987 Jun 2015 #8
Do what you can to "cobble" together a Masters. That would help. nt ladjf Jun 2015 #13
Never have been sure what subject to specialize in KamaAina Jun 2015 #14
What is your major field. What elated Masters might get you a better job? ladjf Jun 2015 #20
Major was psychology (computer science track) KamaAina Jun 2015 #23
I thought the same thing SusanCalvin Jun 2015 #28
CS in high school?! KamaAina Jun 2015 #29
We did CS in elementary school Recursion Jun 2015 #34
That was my first computer, SusanCalvin Jun 2015 #37
Oh yes. SusanCalvin Jun 2015 #35
If you don't enjoy social interaction with students and their parents you probably ladjf Jun 2015 #70
This is why I'm not looking to become one KamaAina Jun 2015 #90
If you're good with statistics get a Business Analytics degree tammywammy Jun 2015 #118
My advice, don't choose economics or an MBA. Everyone Exilednight Jun 2015 #116
The article reports that 76% of U.S. university instructional staff is now adjunct. pnwmom Jun 2015 #59
That's good to see. Adrahil Jun 2015 #112
I am a 13 university staff person who works in a library. Adjunct and staff are abused and exploited RadiationTherapy Jun 2015 #7
may I ask Skittles Jun 2015 #15
Where I am is very red and they hate taxes, state employees, and contemporary education RadiationTherapy Jun 2015 #16
My gosh that's disgusting. nt SusanCalvin Jun 2015 #33
This is so wrong! Left coast liberal Jun 2015 #9
Read a report that said the administrative side of colleges had quadrupled. dixiegrrrrl Jun 2015 #10
So that's where the money's going. A student I know just told me that pnwmom Jun 2015 #61
And the vast majority is going to the "CEO"s of these money-making schemes. erronis Jun 2015 #122
sickening ...this is the way to watch a country self destruct . olddots Jun 2015 #11
Another symptom of American Anti-Intellectualism. nm philly_bob Jun 2015 #12
The opposite. It's a symptom of too many people wanting to be in academia Recursion Jun 2015 #24
That's why I became a bricklayer (kidding) panader0 Jun 2015 #51
Depends on the field..... paleotn Jun 2015 #68
Not so, it's administrators pushing a business model that exploits labor JCMach1 Jun 2015 #79
I was offered an adjunct position the year after I returned to the states... I did the math JCMach1 Jun 2015 #80
How do you keep pay high with thirty applicants for every job? Recursion Jun 2015 #81
it's actually worse than that for every job... but the point is... adjunct positions JCMach1 Jun 2015 #84
Yeah I meant "thirty" Recursion Jun 2015 #85
Nope. Hissyspit Jun 2015 #92
Pay is a reflection of the value society places on an activity. philly_bob Jun 2015 #120
It's a pyramid scheme Recursion Jun 2015 #121
I grew up in a time when schools were expanding... philly_bob Jun 2015 #123
Yes with budget cuts all over the nation. They go after schools, any program to help women Rex Jun 2015 #45
This is why adjuncts need to unionize. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #17
The only thing that will fix this is fewer people trying to be professors Recursion Jun 2015 #22
I make twice what the adjunct in the OP makes for half the units. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #25
And the adjuncts aren't willing to risk not teaching at all Recursion Jun 2015 #26
Adjunct unionization is at an all-time high. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #30
Besides the 'too may teachers' is garbage RWing dogma. Rex Jun 2015 #47
The universities are doing the hiring. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #53
And those of us who are facing adjunct status for life... DeadLetterOffice Jun 2015 #106
((Hugs)) Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #115
You can put your fingers in your ears and call it dogma... MadDAsHell Jun 2015 #91
well, you can put your fingers in *your* ears and pretend we don't need nashville_brook Jun 2015 #100
There's too many people for every job arikara Jun 2015 #86
You've certainly got the whole make-allegations-lacking-any-objective-or-supporting-evidence thing d LanternWaste Jun 2015 #119
and the head of UMCP a state college earns about 1/2 million a year...... burfman Jun 2015 #18
i know someone who was a professor of philosophy DesertFlower Jun 2015 #19
Too many people want to teach at the University level Recursion Jun 2015 #21
You keep saying this, but it's only true if universities are businesses with a fiduciary duty to Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #32
State legislators d_r Jun 2015 #43
Unless they're also micromanaging, they can slash the budget somewhere else. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #46
What happens is d_r Jun 2015 #49
This also happens in private colleges. former9thward Jun 2015 #65
Then the fault is with the state for cutting budgets they should be expanding on. Rex Jun 2015 #50
Yes it is d_r Jun 2015 #52
It's not true at all, the poster must have got their news from a RWing rag. Rex Jun 2015 #48
Well, as long as admin can get away with increasing class sizes and bbgrunt Jun 2015 #54
Righty HATES education and HATES teachers. randys1 Jun 2015 #27
And they bow to the Gods of Idiocracy! n/t RKP5637 Jun 2015 #31
Exactly. The Reich Wing wants a nation of Faux Spews sheep. Education is lethal to ignorance. kairos12 Jun 2015 #40
And they truly believe teachers go in late, leave early, get all summer off, have a grand life randys1 Jun 2015 #42
The rich don't know a damn thing seveneyes Jun 2015 #36
Adjunct's continue to union organize around the US Omaha Steve Jun 2015 #38
And University coaches are making millions per year. Tells you where their priorities are. YOHABLO Jun 2015 #39
My teaching load is d_r Jun 2015 #41
Adjunct/part-time instructing as a main source of income is like AA minor league baseball. aikoaiko Jun 2015 #44
That's an interesting topic right there, what may happen with CCs stopwastingmymoney Jun 2015 #58
So much work ahead of us.... daleanime Jun 2015 #55
so you could hire four people like this professor for < 1 yr private univ cost 6chars Jun 2015 #56
Bwahahahaha DeadLetterOffice Jun 2015 #71
this is a puzzle 6chars Jun 2015 #74
I don't know where the $$ is going... DeadLetterOffice Jun 2015 #76
it should be possible to both pay profs and to make school affordable 6chars Jun 2015 #78
I was offered that from a SUNY starting off tenure line alcibiades_mystery Jun 2015 #83
I suspect my particular field gets paid bupkis compared to others... DeadLetterOffice Jun 2015 #99
Dang alcibiades_mystery Jun 2015 #103
For tenure track faculty positions... DeadLetterOffice Jun 2015 #104
So where is the sky-rocketing tuition going? At many private colleges, the tuition pnwmom Jun 2015 #57
You should see the doors and other amenities yeoman6987 Jun 2015 #63
When I was at BU they announced a tuition increase and the new Lazy River Recursion Jun 2015 #64
Admins. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #69
Thanks for the link. n/t pnwmom Jun 2015 #75
Everyone makes more than adjuncts The Wizard Jun 2015 #60
it will probably be moot soon enough restorefreedom Jun 2015 #62
It will probably be hard to get paid to teach 20 years from now Recursion Jun 2015 #66
agreed. i for one am glad restorefreedom Jun 2015 #67
MOOCs have been only partially successful and have their drawbacks. Hissyspit Jun 2015 #98
And supposed education intellectual liberal minded tenured professors are all talk about changing it Township75 Jun 2015 #73
Sounds like they need to make a different career choice boomer55 Jun 2015 #77
would you say that to a Medical Doctor... most of us have trained 8-12yrs for our positions JCMach1 Jun 2015 #82
If there were no non-poverty positions for him, yes Recursion Jun 2015 #87
But, they haven't starting turning all heart doctors magically into part-timers as old ones retire JCMach1 Jun 2015 #88
No, clearly you had a character flaw or were just stupid about the wonderful invisible hand of the Hissyspit Jun 2015 #96
Great post. +1 Pooka Fey Jun 2015 #97
There's no limit on the number of people who can get humanities PhDs Recursion Jun 2015 #102
Really. You think so? DeadLetterOffice Jun 2015 #105
Yes. The AMA limits how many medical schools the county as a whole can have Recursion Jun 2015 #108
Ugh. Hissyspit Jun 2015 #95
This message was self-deleted by its author Hissyspit Jun 2015 #93
omg. thank you for posting this Liberal_in_LA Jun 2015 #89
Our society is sick sellitman Jun 2015 #94
My night school adjuncts were some of the best One_Life_To_Give Jun 2015 #101
Education in general is deliberately undervalued by Conservatives and I think George Carlin stevenleser Jun 2015 #109
You should consider getting a job as a summer intern at Apple. pogglethrope Jun 2015 #110
colleges are 'for profit' now, they can fill with the wealthy, those who can get a loan & foreigners Sunlei Jun 2015 #111
Yes. Once again we must wonder WHERE PatrickforO Jun 2015 #113
My wife is a Professor Emeritus from a private COLGATE4 Jun 2015 #114
We can't sacrifice all workers in our society to greed, *except* adjunct professors... Romulox Jun 2015 #117

Evergreen Emerald

(13,069 posts)
1. I have a full time job and worked as an adjunct on the side.
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 05:28 PM
Jun 2015

I taught a couple of classes a semester. The work you have to put in is so time consuming, every spare minute was preparing for classes and grading papers. The pay is peanuts. I stopped because I was paying more in gas to get there than I was making. At first I did not mind, because it gave me good resume stuff. But after a while it was not worth the effort.

ProfessorGAC

(65,085 posts)
107. Similar To Me
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 08:48 AM
Jun 2015

That's why i quit too. I was making way more money playing in a band, and although we rehearsed quite a bit, it was still far less time consuming and we rehearsed only 2 miles from my house.

Your last sentence i could use a direct lift.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
2. My university is getting rid of adjuncts
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 05:43 PM
Jun 2015

Perhaps yours will too sometime and you can get on permanent. Also try other universities. I have heard that many are doing away with the program. Good luck. With a PHD, you are employable in a wide variety of areas.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
4. .Oh wow. First of all congratulations on Yale
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 05:53 PM
Jun 2015

And second on getting that job. My university only hires PHDs. I know the pay sucks but you should be proud of the job. I am happy for you....yes money sucks but it will help having it on your resume. Best of luck!!!!!

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
8. Oh I see. I reread your previous post
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 05:58 PM
Jun 2015

I thought you said you weren't an author not you are not an author....I thought you were saying that you haven't published for you dissertation or tenure which is why you were adjunct.....forget all my replies. that is me right now.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
14. Never have been sure what subject to specialize in
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 06:48 PM
Jun 2015

That, and of course cost, have been the issues over the years.

ladjf

(17,320 posts)
20. What is your major field. What elated Masters might get you a better job?
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:00 PM
Jun 2015

You would need 30-36 semester hrs.

Idea, pick a Phd program that might think about getting in the future, then put together 30-36 hrs of that program making sure that the 30-36 hrs. could be used to gain your masters and you would have a good head start on the PHD. It's like getting two degrees for one.

Not easy. But that's life for most of us.

Another idea, how about teaching in a first rate high school? With a BA and MA you might pull down 60 to 89 k, especially after a few years in the system.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
23. Major was psychology (computer science track)
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:09 PM
Jun 2015

First of its kind; and maybe the only one, since they have changed the name to the cognitive science track.

As for teaching, that would require way, WAY too much social interaction.

SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
28. I thought the same thing
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:17 PM
Jun 2015

Before I started teaching (extremely shy and non-social), but I found out I like the interaction when I am in charge and I like the subject. It's non-structured social interaction I can't stand.

High school computer science teachers are in huge demand, at least in my area.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
34. We did CS in elementary school
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:23 PM
Jun 2015

I still remember the Logo programming language from 30 years ago... ah, those Commodore 64s...

SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
35. Oh yes.
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:24 PM
Jun 2015

Most schools offer at least through second semester college, although there's no AP test past the first semester anymore. This is the Houston suburban area - Houston proper offers CS in only a few schools.

ladjf

(17,320 posts)
70. If you don't enjoy social interaction with students and their parents you probably
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 08:46 PM
Jun 2015

aren't going to enjoy being an educator. Teaching is fundamentally interaction with students. Are you familiar with the dialogs of Plato? If not, read some of them and notice the interaction between Socrates and the students.

I'm sympathetic with your situation but, somehow I get the feeling that maybe your are quite putting enough energy into the process.

By the way, from a psychological standpoint, I don't think that high school teaching and University teaching are fundamentally different processes, just subject levels.

tammywammy

(26,582 posts)
118. If you're good with statistics get a Business Analytics degree
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:03 AM
Jun 2015

It's called different things at different universities, but an analytics degree is in high demand with big data.

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
116. My advice, don't choose economics or an MBA. Everyone
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 10:28 AM
Jun 2015

And their brother is touting an MBA.

Finance degrees are more flexible.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
59. The article reports that 76% of U.S. university instructional staff is now adjunct.
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 08:08 PM
Jun 2015

So it seems unlikely that many current professors have that option.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
112. That's good to see.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 09:53 AM
Jun 2015

My wife is a tenured Professor (thanks to her hard work and good luck). She adjuncted for 3 years after getting her PhD, before landing the tenure-track position. We were fortunate, since I had a good job that paid the bills. Otherwise, she may have had to get another job to cover basic living expenses (she would have been making about $15,000/yr in the Washington, DC area.... tough to live on), and she may not have ever been able to keep up her research and publishing which eventually got her the tenure-track job.

Fortunately, her new University does not use many adjuncts. Most non-tenure-track professors, are on annual contracts that pay a living wage (not GREAT pay, but livable, with benefits), and most are rehired on a year to year basis. When she arrived, there WAS a tendency to not replace tenured faculty, instead just trying to replace them with contract faculty, but a new President came in last year and halted that trend, though he hasn't reversed it yet. He saw that quality recruits were moving on to better jobs with a couple years, thwarting the schools ambitions to increase its reputation. Now they just have to pay the tenured faculty what they are worth.

RadiationTherapy

(5,818 posts)
7. I am a 13 university staff person who works in a library. Adjunct and staff are abused and exploited
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 05:57 PM
Jun 2015

to such an extent that it overcomes my aversion to using the words "abused" and "exploited" when referring to an air conditioned, first world workplace that includes paid sick and vacation. The pay is so low and every skill set of every employee is fished out and thoroughly exploited to the maximum. It is a sickening environment and a twisted caricature of the notion of an "institution of higher learning."

RadiationTherapy

(5,818 posts)
16. Where I am is very red and they hate taxes, state employees, and contemporary education
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 06:56 PM
Jun 2015

so they especially hate tax-paid state employees in education. I would say it has been 10 years at least. Our budget was cut deeply five years ago and the library extended its hours which required stretching staff over many more hours with no compensation. Two years ago, they extended the library hours to 24/7 during the last 2.5 weeks of fall/spring semesters - no staffing or pay increases, etc.

The pattern of increased skills through self-investment leading to increased responsibility with no compensation has been the norm here for a decade at least. Get the most and pay the least is what passes for "success driven leadership" these days. The last few hires at the entry "specialist" level have had master's degrees for $36k jobs. This in a very expensive cost of living town. One of the highest in the nation.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
10. Read a report that said the administrative side of colleges had quadrupled.
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 06:18 PM
Jun 2015

That colleges were using their loan funds to hire many more admins, and other college oriented perks, while teachers were being underpaid.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
61. So that's where the money's going. A student I know just told me that
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 08:12 PM
Jun 2015

tuition alone at her private school is over $40K. In the dark ages when I graduated, my tuition, plus room and board, was in the $4k's.

So I've been trying to figure out where all the money is going, since it's clearly not going to faculty salaries.

erronis

(15,306 posts)
122. And the vast majority is going to the "CEO"s of these money-making schemes.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 03:07 PM
Jun 2015

They bring in new presidents and top level staff to economize the staffing. These high-level staff will be paid in the 6-7 digit range and the rest of the campus staff will be shafted.

Spending on fancy buildings and athletic stadiums are how this new crop views education.

We just kicked out a sleazeball at the University of Vermont who didn't even like to talk to students.

All of these places of higher education are looking for alumni donors and Daddy Megabucks who wants his name on a stadium.

Parents: Let your children find their dreams in the real world before you send your retirement funds to these thieves.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
24. The opposite. It's a symptom of too many people wanting to be in academia
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:09 PM
Jun 2015

About twice as many people want to be professors as universities have room to employ as professors.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
51. That's why I became a bricklayer (kidding)
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:44 PM
Jun 2015

But Mom and Grandfather were professors. I just didn't want to work indoors.
My brother has a Masters in History and never taught.

paleotn

(17,931 posts)
68. Depends on the field.....
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 08:39 PM
Jun 2015

.... in the professions, Nursing, Accounting, some Management disciplines, qualified faculty are hard to come by even after the great recession. Many colleges and universities would love to expand their BSN program, but can't find the nursing faculty to do so. Liberal arts may be a different story. Not my area.

JCMach1

(27,559 posts)
79. Not so, it's administrators pushing a business model that exploits labor
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 09:42 PM
Jun 2015

full-time, tenure track jobs are now a pipe-dream in academia...

JCMach1

(27,559 posts)
80. I was offered an adjunct position the year after I returned to the states... I did the math
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 09:45 PM
Jun 2015

and it worked out to $2.11 per hour of work... less than I made working as a stock boy when I was 15.

Maybe I should go to prison, I hear they are paying $2 in some places.

JCMach1

(27,559 posts)
84. it's actually worse than that for every job... but the point is... adjunct positions
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 09:52 PM
Jun 2015

are missing full-time positions.

Universities take advantage of a loophole that only counts classroom hours for calculating salary and benefits.

That is an easy thing to fix.

9 hours=full-time... now pay accordingly.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
85. Yeah I meant "thirty"
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 09:54 PM
Jun 2015

Why would universities make that change if the labor oversupply makes people willing to work as adjuncts for peanuts just to be in the Academy?

philly_bob

(2,419 posts)
120. Pay is a reflection of the value society places on an activity.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 12:06 PM
Jun 2015

You're right, Recursion, there are more applicants than jobs in academia. But that's a market consideration. The market does not/should not rule all.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
121. It's a pyramid scheme
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 12:11 PM
Jun 2015

If your average PhD level section in medieval literature is 7 students, and a professor leads 30 sections over her career, when she retires she will have taught 210 students who are now qualified to be medieval lit professors, but her retirement only opens up one job. But all 210 want to be professors.

How do you get the market out of that scenario? How do you forbid a postdoc from undercutting his classmates on costs?

philly_bob

(2,419 posts)
123. I grew up in a time when schools were expanding...
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 09:45 PM
Jun 2015

...and when skilled Humanities graduates were valued in other industries.

Generally, I don't think education should be market-driven. The job of universities should NOT be to match job-seekers with jobs. Instead, universities should train well-informed citizens and advance knowledge.

I know, I'm idealistic and obsolete -- and no longer in the job market.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
45. Yes with budget cuts all over the nation. They go after schools, any program to help women
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:37 PM
Jun 2015

and children. The GOPs greed is only matched by their evilness and stupidity. We read about it all the time.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
22. The only thing that will fix this is fewer people trying to be professors
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:08 PM
Jun 2015

More people want to be professors than universities need to hire. Unionizing won't help that, unless the organizational process excludes a lot of current adjuncts.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
26. And the adjuncts aren't willing to risk not teaching at all
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:13 PM
Jun 2015

On the chance that their job might end up paying more like yours.

Academic labor just isn't as rare as it was 40 years ago.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
30. Adjunct unionization is at an all-time high.
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:19 PM
Jun 2015

I think it was the biggest organizing sector last year. Unionization for adjuncts is very successful, as far as gaining pay and benefits for adjuncts.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/07/26/adjunct-union-contracts-ensure-real-gains-including-better-pay



John Curtis, director of research at the American Association of University Professors, reviewed adjunct union gains as part of his analysis of the 2012 Coalition on the Academic Workforce report on part-time faculty working conditions. Median pay per course was 25 percent higher for adjuncts where part-time faculty had union representation ($3,100 on average, compared to $2,475) he said, but those “concrete benefits” don’t stop at pay.

Adjuncts with union representation also were more likely to have access to certain health and retirement benefits and had greater access to institutional support. For example, 18 percent of adjuncts on unionized campuses said they were paid for course cancellations, compared to 10 percent of their non-union peers. Fifteen percent of unionized campus adjuncts had paid office hours, compared to 4 percent of other adjuncts, and 20 percent union adjuncts said they had some kind of job security – something only 4 percent of their non-union counterparts reported enjoying.



Highly paid administrators are also no longer rare, but I see no one suggesting they should make a career change for the good of academia, since most of them are about as useful as tits on a boar-hog.
 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
47. Besides the 'too may teachers' is garbage RWing dogma.
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:40 PM
Jun 2015

It is the ever shrinking school budget in favor of corporate greed. Done for decades now by the GOP. Anyone that pays attention to the news would know that.

Good for them, you have the real answer as to why they are getting fired and laid off - unions means collective negotiating.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
53. The universities are doing the hiring.
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:45 PM
Jun 2015

They don't hire more teachers than they want, they just want to pay their workforce as little as possible. Those expanding tuition dollars are going into the pockets of the higher-ups.



Over the last 35 years, top administrators pay increased at 3 times the rate of faculty.[1]

From 1978-79 to 2013-14, the average salary of CEOs at public institutions rose by 75 percent, the average increase for CEOs at private institutions was about 170 percent.[2]



http://seiufacultyforward.org/facts/

I'm an evil labor organizer for adjuncts, so I eat, sleep, and breathe this issue.

DeadLetterOffice

(1,352 posts)
106. And those of us who are facing adjunct status for life...
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 08:46 AM
Jun 2015

... thank you for your service.

If you're not in academia I don't think it's possible to truly understand just how much adjuncts (and doctoral students) are used & abused by the system. Like all industries, if the goal is to maximize profits then you hire the cheapest and most desperate labor force you can and give them bupkis by way of benefits & compensation.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
115. ((Hugs))
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 10:22 AM
Jun 2015

PM me if you ever want to. No, people don't know. There's a deep seated illusion that higher ed is full of professors who have nice long talks with students in their beautiful offices while plinking over their next book.

No one wants to face the reality of what a grinding lack of dignity it has become.

 

MadDAsHell

(2,067 posts)
91. You can put your fingers in your ears and call it dogma...
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 12:32 AM
Jun 2015

if you want too...

But denying reality and continuing to encourage students to "study what they love" and continue to blow hundreds of thousands of dollars on degrees for which there are no associated jobs, simply because the idea that universities are graduating too many post-secondary educators doesn't fit your political narrative, is awfully selfish.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
100. well, you can put your fingers in *your* ears and pretend we don't need
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 07:29 AM
Jun 2015

educators and an educated public...but blah blah blah.

it's just awfully selfish when it's a societal problem, and folks blame the victims. and oh yeah -- you're the victim here.

arikara

(5,562 posts)
86. There's too many people for every job
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 10:22 PM
Jun 2015

not just teachers, hence the race to the bottom for wages.

That is by design.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
119. You've certainly got the whole make-allegations-lacking-any-objective-or-supporting-evidence thing d
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:07 AM
Jun 2015

You've certainly got the whole make-allegations-lacking-any-objective-or-supporting-evidence thing down. No doubt though-- it's a good tool to validate one's own biases...

burfman

(264 posts)
18. and the head of UMCP a state college earns about 1/2 million a year......
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:00 PM
Jun 2015

I remember way back in the 60's when you could attend most colleges without taking on life long debt. Doesn't seem too fair that the system today depends on extracting obscene amounts of money from the student and their family while saving money on your back. The whole college scene today is just as detached from reality as our health care system.....It seems like in a few years one will be working mostly to pay for education and health care......

Burfman......

DesertFlower

(11,649 posts)
19. i know someone who was a professor of philosophy
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:00 PM
Jun 2015

at purdue. he said "he took a vow of poverty" and after many years of struggling changed professions.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
21. Too many people want to teach at the University level
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:06 PM
Jun 2015

As long as that remains true, adjuncts will be underpaid.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
32. You keep saying this, but it's only true if universities are businesses with a fiduciary duty to
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:20 PM
Jun 2015

shareholders. That's why businesses always proclaim the need to treat employees like crap and pay them as little as possible. "We have to!" they whine.

Barring that fiduciary duty, there's no reason to continue to underpay your teachers while continuously jacking up tuition. No one is forcing not-for-profit universities to treat their adjuncts like crap. They could raise pay scales and cut costs somewhere else, instead of always emulating RW business owners.

d_r

(6,907 posts)
43. State legislators
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:36 PM
Jun 2015

Keep slashing university budgets. Yes there are too many highly paid administrators, but the budgets keep shrinking as well.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
46. Unless they're also micromanaging, they can slash the budget somewhere else.
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:38 PM
Jun 2015

Administrators are, as you just pointed out, a prime target for such cuts.

d_r

(6,907 posts)
49. What happens is
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:42 PM
Jun 2015

They put in hiring freezes. So no new tenure track lines. So young PhD s can't find jobs and are saddled with debt. At the same time, those classes still need to be taught. So the young PhD takes on some adjunct classes, and ends up in a spiral. The root of it is the GOP state legislatures.

former9thward

(32,029 posts)
65. This also happens in private colleges.
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 08:31 PM
Jun 2015

State legislatures have nothing to do with them. It is also happening everywhere. GOP does not control every state.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
50. Then the fault is with the state for cutting budgets they should be expanding on.
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:42 PM
Jun 2015

To pretend there are too many professors is something Glenn Beck would say.

bbgrunt

(5,281 posts)
54. Well, as long as admin can get away with increasing class sizes and
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 08:02 PM
Jun 2015

classes taught in large lecture halls with grad students to fill in gaps, your contention that "too many people want to teach at the Uni level" will be true. It is truly sad that the reputation for quality of education lags so far behind that admins can continue to use these techniques to squeeze uni faculty to the brink while destroying the quality of their product.

so your contention that "too many people want to teach..." can also be restated as "too few jobs are being offered...."

randys1

(16,286 posts)
27. Righty HATES education and HATES teachers.
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:15 PM
Jun 2015

They think teachers have the easiest job in the world, plus they simply dont want an educated public, makes them feel insecure.

kairos12

(12,862 posts)
40. Exactly. The Reich Wing wants a nation of Faux Spews sheep. Education is lethal to ignorance.
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:34 PM
Jun 2015

The astro turf Teabaggers can't have an educated population. Garlic to Dracula.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
42. And they truly believe teachers go in late, leave early, get all summer off, have a grand life
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:35 PM
Jun 2015

fucking bigot assholes

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
39. And University coaches are making millions per year. Tells you where their priorities are.
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:32 PM
Jun 2015

I mean who wants to go to a school dedicated to academics that has a losing football or basketball team. I say, if you want to really learn, go to a library and read. It's free.

aikoaiko

(34,174 posts)
44. Adjunct/part-time instructing as a main source of income is like AA minor league baseball.
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:37 PM
Jun 2015

Part-time jobs were never meant to be cobbled together as a full-time job.

Do it because you love it, you don't want to do anything else, you want library privileges, you like impressing 20 year olds, etc., but its rarely a path to the big leagues.

And there are increasingly fewer tenure-track spots opening up. Although no one is quite sure what will happen with the community colleges if Obama can deliver on free CC tuition. I'd keep a foot in the door there.



stopwastingmymoney

(2,042 posts)
58. That's an interesting topic right there, what may happen with CCs
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 08:08 PM
Jun 2015

I'm someone who fooled around in high school and went back to CC when I was 24. I graduated cum laude with a bs from a state university.

I never could have done that without the CC system. Big advocate here.

I'm fortunate to live in a small city with an excellent Junior College. It's a wonderful resource for a community and expanding that system could only bring good things. Including more good teaching jobs of course!

6chars

(3,967 posts)
56. so you could hire four people like this professor for < 1 yr private univ cost
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 08:04 PM
Jun 2015

sounds like exploitation to me. what do tenured profs make? $100,000?

DeadLetterOffice

(1,352 posts)
71. Bwahahahaha
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 08:47 PM
Jun 2015

Not at SUNY they don't.

Newly tenured profs in department X at the SUNY school I am most familiar with make about $48K.

DeadLetterOffice

(1,352 posts)
76. I don't know where the $$ is going...
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 09:24 PM
Jun 2015

... but it certainly isn't going to the average tenure-track or tenured faculty member, or grad assistant or post-doc, or library staffer. It isn't paying for decent equipment for those folks either, or habitable office space, or air conditioners that work.

New stadiums? You betcha. And insane amounts of landscaping -- gotta look good apparently.

At least at the state schools. I have no idea what they spend money on at private colleges. Though I think it's probably administrative salaries, e.g. RPI in Troy NY.

6chars

(3,967 posts)
78. it should be possible to both pay profs and to make school affordable
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 09:32 PM
Jun 2015

instead of neither. there has to be another model

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
83. I was offered that from a SUNY starting off tenure line
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 09:47 PM
Jun 2015

This was years ago. There's a significant bump at tenure, so I don't think that's right. I turned the offer down, mainly because I got a better offer elsewhere. That said, most tenured professors (I'm one of them) don't make anywhere close to 100k a year; that drew a belly laugh from me as well.

DeadLetterOffice

(1,352 posts)
99. I suspect my particular field gets paid bupkis compared to others...
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 07:27 AM
Jun 2015

...in academia. The gods know we do in real life.
(Social Welfare & Social Work, you see. )

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
103. Dang
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 08:00 AM
Jun 2015

That's still pretty low relative to tenured faculty nationwide, I gotta think. It was striking to me because that's the exact number offered to me as a brand new assistant professor at a SUNY - and this wasn't one of the research centers (or Geneseo). And it was way low to me even then. I'm in the liberal arts, too, not law or even a STEM field. Do most of y'all have MSW's or PhD's?

DeadLetterOffice

(1,352 posts)
104. For tenure track faculty positions...
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 08:40 AM
Jun 2015

...you gotta have that PhD. Adjuncts in my dept. get paid about $3800 per class (adjuncts in other depts. get paid considerably more I think). And of course there's a tenure-track hiring freeze on (Thank you New York State), so there's LOTS of adjuncts teaching lots of classes. I made more as a grad assistant than I can now teaching 3 classes a semester. It's crazy.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
57. So where is the sky-rocketing tuition going? At many private colleges, the tuition
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 08:06 PM
Jun 2015

ALONE now is 10 times what FULL ANNUAL COSTS were (room and board included) when I was in college.

All that money's not going to faculty salaries, obviously. So where is it going?

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
63. You should see the doors and other amenities
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 08:27 PM
Jun 2015

Makes me wish I was in school again. The dorms are elite and the cafeterias and student unions are state of the art. So that is one area.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
64. When I was at BU they announced a tuition increase and the new Lazy River
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 08:30 PM
Jun 2015

on the same day. Different emails, at least.

The Wizard

(12,545 posts)
60. Everyone makes more than adjuncts
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 08:12 PM
Jun 2015

I tried to get a job at the school as a janitor because they made more money. The administration said no dice, what will the students think. It was fun and rewarding in the realm of contributing to a greater good. As for keeping a roof over my head and food on my table, nah. Unemployment paid better.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
62. it will probably be moot soon enough
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 08:16 PM
Jun 2015

with the growing popularity of moocs and paid for-credit moocs that are very reasonably priced, many people will opt for alternative ways of getting an education.

premed, nursing, things like that, those people are probably screwed because they will always need a traditional degree. but for many others, the options are increasing.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
66. It will probably be hard to get paid to teach 20 years from now
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 08:32 PM
Jun 2015

There will still be "boutique" places like Harvard, but I doubt most teaching will be done via physical human presence in 2035.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
67. agreed. i for one am glad
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 08:39 PM
Jun 2015

i did it the "old fashioned way," but then when i went, a state u was affordable. i also enjoy moocs.

Hissyspit

(45,788 posts)
98. MOOCs have been only partially successful and have their drawbacks.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 05:59 AM
Jun 2015

Plenty of those who experience digital learning come to understand that they crave the human presence and interaction. There are plenty of subjects that do not lend themselves to digital learning.

Clearly change will occur. I have taught all three ways - face-to-face, digital only, and hybrid - for years now, and your prediction is questionable.

Township75

(3,535 posts)
73. And supposed education intellectual liberal minded tenured professors are all talk about changing it
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 08:59 PM
Jun 2015

They voice outrage with the treatment of adjuncts, but take no action to help them, and in many cases treat them like they are an outsourced cleaning service. It enrages me!

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
87. If there were no non-poverty positions for him, yes
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 10:37 PM
Jun 2015

However, the AMA protects doctors' salaries by keeping med school classes small. The equivalent body for Medieval literature does not.

JCMach1

(27,559 posts)
88. But, they haven't starting turning all heart doctors magically into part-timers as old ones retire
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 11:06 PM
Jun 2015

that's a key difference...

My generation (Gen X) faced generational (at least I did) age discrimination when we finished Grad. School. The hiring that happened was new professors who were the same generation.

Go through most university faculty lists and see how many tenured Professors are from Gen X.

We got the short stick again as administrators pushed business models and business ideology and began hiring more adjuncts, spamming TA's. At the same time, they also began tightening the screws even tighter for people to earn tenure even IF you are lucky enough to land a full-time position.

Now it's long-term hangers-on... Check the average age of full-time tenured faculty, and lots of McAdjuncts.

I escaped this BS for 10 years by working overseas, earning tenure there and getting paid a decent wage and benefits. I came back 2 years ago to find stagnant salaries (they haven't really changed since the 1990's) and virtually no work in academia.

I am just thankful I also run a small business..., otherwise I would be just like the author of this article.

Hissyspit

(45,788 posts)
96. No, clearly you had a character flaw or were just stupid about the wonderful invisible hand of the
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 05:55 AM
Jun 2015

free market. I'm being sarcastic, of course.

10 years ago I was doing fairly great as an adjunct. Now I'm in trouble. What did I do to make this happen? Nothing.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
102. There's no limit on the number of people who can get humanities PhDs
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 07:58 AM
Jun 2015

There's a strict limit set on the number of people who can get MDS, because the AMA doesn't want what's happening to Medieval Lit professors to happen to doctors.

DeadLetterOffice

(1,352 posts)
105. Really. You think so?
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 08:43 AM
Jun 2015

Because they only let 5 people a year into my doctoral program. And I am very much in the humanities, as you call them.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
108. Yes. The AMA limits how many medical schools the county as a whole can have
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 08:55 AM
Jun 2015

And how many students each program can take. There's no equivalent in the humanities.

Response to boomer55 (Reply #77)

One_Life_To_Give

(6,036 posts)
101. My night school adjuncts were some of the best
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 07:43 AM
Jun 2015

Bit of a shame some of the very best Prof's I had were adjuncts. Most of them held full time positions in private industry and taught 1 or 2 classes in the evening. Found them to be very good. But if you try to compete against them for a job. These Prof's already have a full set of benefits from their day job.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
109. Education in general is deliberately undervalued by Conservatives and I think George Carlin
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 09:06 AM
Jun 2015

hit on why:

 

pogglethrope

(60 posts)
110. You should consider getting a job as a summer intern at Apple.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 09:11 AM
Jun 2015

My grandson worked there two months last summer. He earned ~$38,000 plus housing.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
111. colleges are 'for profit' now, they can fill with the wealthy, those who can get a loan & foreigners
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 09:23 AM
Jun 2015

online colleges are on the upswing. can also search online high school diploma- plenty of places let teens take tests free, over & over and pay couple hundred when they pass.

Some online college free classes too but not many for credit, yet.. perhaps if all the new online free college business owners get Federal subsidies .



online college credit courses

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=online+college+credit+courses

PatrickforO

(14,582 posts)
113. Yes. Once again we must wonder WHERE
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 09:54 AM
Jun 2015

all that money is going. I'm sure the college presidents are getting some good bonuses.

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
114. My wife is a Professor Emeritus from a private
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 10:01 AM
Jun 2015

Michigan college with some 30-odd years of teaching under her belt. While at her university she won every teaching award the school had to offer. We both retired in 2008 and moved to Florida for the weather.

It occurred to her that she might like to teach a course or two, just to keep her hand in, so she talked with the University of South Florida here in Tampa who readily hired her as an adjunct. She wound up teaching 2 three-credit courses, i.e. five classes a week for each group. Of course as an adjunct no benefits of any kind were provided, no office, or other support. In addition, USF also required that she pay for her parking - some $200 a semester.

Our home is about a 45 minute drive from USF. Once we saw her paycheck after deductions and taking into account the cost of gasoline for the daily commute and the costs of her parking, her net pay worked out to be about $3.50 an hour!

Needless to say, she didn't continue as an adjunct professor. The slave wages they pay these very qualified and extremely hard-working people are criminal.

Romulox

(25,960 posts)
117. We can't sacrifice all workers in our society to greed, *except* adjunct professors...
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 10:35 AM
Jun 2015

If adjunct professors want to stand up for themselves, they will have to stand up for others, first. We have a race to the bottom society where workers are treated worse than at any time in modern history.

In order to improve conditions for adjunct professors, we will have to stop all of that. We can't have an economy made up of poor, desperate people, on one hand, and well remunerated adjunct professors, on the other.

TL;DR: we are all hanging separately.

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