Our broken jury servitude system

[Lionel Mandrake]

Our jury servitude system provides an almost unlimited labor force which is forced to work for almost nothing. The court system wastes jurors' time in many ways: keeping jurors idle for hours in jury assembly rooms, sending hordes of them to courtrooms where they sit idly once again, waiting for the interminable voir dire process to exclude most of them, etc. The court system does all this because it has little incentive to use jurors' time efficiently.

An integral part of this economic distortion is excessive use of what are called peremptory challenges (defined below). We Americans pay little attention to how similar problems have been solved elsewhere in the world. Once when my time was being wasted in a jury assembly room and a judge came by to give the usual pep talk, I asked him what he thought about peremptory challenges. He said that of course he had his opinions but declined to say what they were. I mentioned that peremptory challenges had been abolished in England. The judge said that was interesting - he hadn't been aware of that. (!)

Today's LA Times has an editorial about peremptory challenges:

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-peremptory-challenges-in-misdemeanor-trials-ab87-20150621-story.html

[AtomicKitten]

1. I recall a comedian saying he'd hate to be judged by a jury of his peers

.... because they are people too stupid to get out of jury duty.

[former9thward]

6. And that same comedian probably does not vote because he does not want to be bothered.

I think he is the stupid one. Jury duty is a civic duty just like voting. I was on 3 juries while in Chicago. All murder cases. Since I came to the Phoenix area I been called twice but unfortunately not chosen because they don't want attorneys on the jury.

[AtomicKitten]

11. My son just served 10 days here in SF.

He works for the production company of Beach Blanket Babylon and works evenings, so he served without missing any work.

I once worked for a neurosurgeon who would always serve jury duty when called.

Fortunately some people still consider it their solemn duty.

[enlightenment]

13. Agree.

I have never grinched about jury duty - the word "duty" sums it up for me. It is part and parcel of our system of democracy, and flawed as that might be, it affords us a voice, however small, into the process.

I am rarely selected, I think historians (or educators in general) are seen in almost the same dim light as attorneys.

[Lionel Mandrake]

17. Historians, engineers, lawyers, and other educated people are often challenged peremptorily

by defense attorneys who want to choose stupid juries for their guilty clients. Attorneys know that intelligence is correlated with level of education. It's hard to test a prospective juror for intelligence, but it's easy to tell whether he or she has a job that requires a college degree. So the smart money goes after the high school dropout.

[MADem]

26. I don't shirk my jury duty either, but I am never seated.

I've sat on too many courts martials. They ask if you've ever sat in judgment, and those most definitely count.

For people who don't like to serve, all one has to say is "The cops are always right" or "The cops are always wrong," and you're out the door in no time.

[JustAnotherGen]

27. Plus One

Not an Attorney. Just a simple telecom woman. I've found in Civil Cases - they don't want process, m & p people. We *think* too much.

[bluestateguy]

2. My views are too wacky to ever actually be seated on a jury

and I believe in jury nullification.

I will refuse to vote to convict in a non-violent drug case.

For those reasons, it is unlikely I would ever be put on a jury.

But I could be called and forced to waste a day in an assembly room.

[former9thward]

9. You are the type of people we need on juries.

It is very easy to hide those views during potential juror questioning. Everyone knows what the 'right' answer is and what a 'wrong' answer is.

[bmbmd]

3. Yeah I got called, too.

Monday, July 6. Seems like I get called at least once a year.

[Jamastiene]

19. I've been getting called twice a year ever

since I paid off my home. Thing is, I would love to do it, but cannot because I am the sole caregiver of my quadriplegic aunt. I can't leave her alone that long. She has life threatening throat spasms and chest spasms. I have to be here to administer medicine for her when she gets those. Otherwise, she won't make it through some of the rougher ones, which is most of them lately.

[alcibiades_mystery]

24. I'm over 40 and have never received a jury summons, period

I find this remarkable.

My wife has had four in the 15 years we've been married.

[Mnemosyne]

25. 57 here and never been called either. I think it seems strange too. nt

[Thinkingabout]

4. I have seen some jurists who was on top of their game and some wasn't.

It is a civil exercise though it interrupts our lives I think if I needed the services I would like to see those serving who would be doing a good job. I have only served on one jury but have gone through the process several times.

[pintobean]

5. It doesn't bother me.

We get called about once every three years. Most of the time its for two days or less. Last time, less than two months ago, I was on a jury for a trial that lasted a week.

[hifiguy]

7. I was a law clerk to two trial judges.

The best way to get out of jury duty in a criminal case is to say you would never believe one word a cop said.

In my case that has the added benefit of being 100% true.

[Ino]

16. I'd be afraid to say that out loud ...

surrounded by cops, cop sympathizers, cop family members, cop friends, etc.

[goldent]

35. You can discuss it privately at the bench with the judge and the attorneys.

But expect the judge to give you a hard time if he/she thinks you are making it up to get out of jury duty.

[Live and Learn]

22. +1 nt

[eridani]

8. My former employer paid for jury duty leave

Not sure how common this is. As a retiree, I don't mind as long as they let us have our laptops. I've been called 3 times over the last 20 years, and have never been seated. I've heard that scientists and engineers are particularly likely to get eliminated with peremptory challenges.

[Blue_In_AK]

10. I haven't been called for jury duty in years,

and I've never actually served. One time I was seated, but they settled after opening statements. Another time I got excused because it was the retrial of someone whose appeal I had worked on, and I knew everything about his case. I've wondered if the fact that I worked here in the legal biz for 35 years had anything to do with the infrequency of my call-ups.

As for peremptory challenges, I think they're fine. Some people are just not cut out to be jurors, either because they're not too bright or they have preconceived notions about the case. The worst sort of situation I've seen here is trials in these small villages where everyone knows or is related to the victim AND the perpetrator. That gets to be a problem.

[Hoyt]

12. As long as one can challenge a juror for cause -- ie, a racist, gun lover for Roof's jury -- I could

live without peremptory challenges.

[gwheezie]

14. I was one of the strikes

The last time I had jury duty. My job pays us when we have jury duty.

[pinboy3niner]

15. I am always excused on peremptories

Last time it was by the defense, which surprised me because every other time it was on peremptory from the prosecution. The defense lawyer went on at length to make the point that for a finding of guilty, the prosecution must prove each and every element of the charge. He even used multiple analogies, including one about baking a cake and leaving out an ingredient. I probably should have told him straight up that I would have to find the cake not guilty.

[gwheezie]

18. I had a bad cold

I was coughing wheezing snotting and gurgling.

[SheilaT]

20. Some time back, maybe as long as ten years ago,

I read a fascinating article somewhere about some places that were experimenting with what might be called mandatory jury duty. It was set up so that you could get out of it once or twice, but then you would have to serve. As I recall, you were given pretty good advance notice so that you could clear your calendar. The most important thing was that the places that were doing it were also more or less requiring that the first twelve names called would be the jurors. No voir dire, no challenges. According to what I read, at first the attorneys were horrified, thinking they'd get the worst possible jurors, but very quickly came to like that system.

And I just don't get why I have been called for jury duty only once in my semi-long life. Of course, now I'm retired, and it would be pretty easy for me to serve.

[Live and Learn]

23. Interesting. Might really be the most fair way to do it. nt

[SheilaT]

31. I wish I could remember more details.

I'm thinking it was being done somewhere in England and somewhere in Michigan. What stood out so much was that in both places the entire system was streamlined so people didn't have to spend a lot of time hanging around, and the almost no strikes or ways to get off was also revolutionary.

I did used to live in Johnson County, Kansas, and the one time I was called their system was (probably still is): One day, one trial. You'd show up for the one day, and if you weren't selected you were done until the next time you might be called. I lived there for 18 years and was only called once.

[muriel_volestrangler]

33. I'm in England; I did jury duty a few years ago, and it's roughly as you describe

I can't remember exactly how much notice we got - a month, perhaps? - but they accept very few excuses for missing it, these days, and do say that if you say you can't do it this time, you have to specify times in the next year when you can. Employers have to give you time off, though don't have to pay you; you can claim for loss of earnings at a basic rate. If you're part of a really small business that would genuinely struggle without you there during the day, that would be a valid excuse for deferring. If it's work you can make up by doing it in the evening, it wouldn't be a valid excuse.

There are no preemptory challenges; if you know someone involved in the trial (or know about the case) you have to say so (they read out the names of the witnesses who may be called); on one case they had several extra of us at the start, because the accused and his victim were both in the police, and they asked if anyone had family or close friends in that force (it turned out no-one did, and I was one of the extra, so I wasn't on that jury).

Duty is for 2 weeks; I was on 2 trials during that, each lasting about 3 days.

[SheilaT]

36. Thank you.

I'd forgotten all the details, but what I remember most was that at first lawyers were totally opposed to that system, and came to like it a lot, I think because the jury pool is not a much better one.

[Initech]

21. I'd love to see John Oliver do an exposé on this.

[sendero]

28. I've served on several panels..

.... but have never been chosen. I'm pretty sure that if during voir dire you express ANY kind of firm opinion on ANYTHING, they don't want you.

[1939]

29. For me

I served on multiple courts-martial in the army.

I did jury duty in Virginia and enjoyed it.

I was called several times here in south Florida where they treat the jurors worse than the criminals. As soon as I reached the age for permanent exclusion from the jury rolls, I opted out.

[davidpdx]

30. I've never been called or served on jury duty

and because I now live outside the US they can't summons me for jury duty. I did participate in a mock jury for a consultant that was involved in suing for loses because of one of the accounting firms actions in the whole Enron ordeal.

[taught_me_patience]

32. In Hawaii, I served where it was limited to 3 peremtory

the Jury selection started at about 9:00am and was finished by 11:00 am. Here in California, I've sat for three days while they were trying to seat the jury for one trial! Our system in California is insane.

[alarimer]

34. I've been on two juries.

I don't think the jury system is all it's cracked up to be. In those two cases, ALL of my fellow jurors had made up their minds before the trial was over (which you are not supposed to do). There was a lot of pressure to get it done in a hurry. I tried to slow it down, but didn't really succeed.

I still got paid while I was on jury duty, but I know some people don't and it is a real hardship. The $15/ day is a pittance. I know that amount varies from place to place but it is NEVER enough to make up for lost pay. So, of course there is incentive to get out of it whenever possible. I don't blame people for that. It's ridiculous.

[Lionel Mandrake]

37. Yes, $15/day is ridiculous.

IMO the court system should pay jurors at least the minimum wage, which is $15/hour in some places in California. In addition, they should pay something for transportation to and from the courthouse. The present system is similar to indentured servitude, which is unconstitutional and rightly so. That's why I refer to "jury servitude".

I have been on my share of juries. I'm glad to have had the experience, but I have some medical issues which will prevent me from serving again.

One thing I've noticed is that each judge makes up his or her own code of conduct for jurors and prospective jurors. What one judge will tolerate, another will consider contempt of court. Some judges deserve respect; others are assholes. When we enter a courtroom, we are back in the middle ages, with the judge as our liege lord. Here ye, here ye, all stand, etc. We could do with a little less of that. Continental Europe has civil law (as opposed to common law), where being a judge is not such a big fucking deal. Most of us Americans don't give a shit about how things are done elsewhere, but we should. Just because something wasn't invented here doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

[LWolf]

38. My employer pays me

if I have jury duty. That's great.

What's not great is that it means a set of sub-plans, and a wasted instructional day, every single day I'm called in to sit around and do nothing. Then, if I were ever to be selected for an actual jury, that's more days of sub-plans and wasted time.

It takes me extra time to write those plans. Subs aren't there for my whole work day, to do my entire job; they are just there to fill in with students. They don't have to do any of the paperwork generated during the day that they are there and I am not.

I don't leave any instruction of new material, or any more complex or challenging tasks for students with a sub. Inevitably, doing so leaves me having to unteach, and then re-teach, using up even more crucial instructional time.

It's a disservice to me and to my students. So, when I get that card in the mail, I respond with a request to postpone until July, which is always granted. Of course, that means that, while I'm not doing all the extra work involved in being gone, I'm giving up my unpaid vacation time to, again, sit around and waste my time. I've never actually been on a jury.